dipandglide
Footballguy
Little passing work and no looks in the redzone is a big change from last year. Not all touches are the same. Sad times for us Walker owners.
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RB Kenneth Walker III - SEA (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
He’s cooked for 25 barring an injury
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
If you were watching the first half yesterday, you got to see exactly what the coaches see and why SEA runs a RB committee.
The only time SEA’s O stalled in the first half was when Walker kept putting the O in poor down and distance. Well, that and the boneheaded double pass call. Walker runs weak in tight quarters, does not navigate trash well at all, can be tackled easy when he doesn’t have a head of stream and is indecisive when the scripted point of attack is closed.
Simply put, Carbonnet does more with less, can move a pile and finds slight seams that he gets into quickly between the tackles. He can do the heavy lifting that Walker just can’t.
If you can’t see that by this time, then that’s on you and not the others who can see it - including the coaches. That doesn’t mean Walker can’t be special. He can and he has unique tools that make him downright dangerous. But he’s not the complete back that some of you have convinced yourself that he is. And he’s not the “better” back. He’s just different and needs different circumstances that play away from his weaknesses and take advantage of those unique strengths. He and Charbonnet are actually very well matched.
The only time SEA’s O stalled in the first half was when Walker kept putting the O in poor down and distance. Well, that and the boneheaded double pass call. Walker runs weak in tight quarters, does not navigate trash well at all, can be tackled easy when he doesn’t have a head of stream and is indecisive when the scripted point of attack is closed.
Simply put, Carbonnet does more with less, can move a pile and finds slight seams that he gets into quickly between the tackles. He can do the heavy lifting that Walker just can’t.
If you can’t see that by this time, then that’s on you and not the others who can see it - including the coaches. That doesn’t mean Walker can’t be special. He can and he has unique tools that make him downright dangerous. But he’s not the complete back that some of you have convinced yourself that he is. And he’s not the “better” back. He’s just different and needs different circumstances that play away from his weaknesses and take advantage of those unique strengths. He and Charbonnet are actually very well matched.
Drake Hater
Footballguy
Roster clogger. Which sucks relative to his redraft position. Hoping for a ceiling game soon so I can try and trade him before the deadline.
Good luck. He has to score from 30+ yards out.
Drake Hater
Footballguy
My luck has been all bad so far. Hoping for some regression.
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
He's averaging 10.73 ppr points per game. That's a usable fantasy asset. Not a league winner but someone you can put in as and RB3 or a flex.
Certainly not what folks thought he's capable of and not paying off ADP but he's also not killing you if your other picks are working out (cough, cough, Henderson).
I saw it myself a few weeks ago. When the LOS gets crowded near the goal line, he sometimes runs backwards. There's a reason why the coaches don't trust him down there.
Certainly not what folks thought he's capable of and not paying off ADP but he's also not killing you if your other picks are working out (cough, cough, Henderson).
I saw it myself a few weeks ago. When the LOS gets crowded near the goal line, he sometimes runs backwards. There's a reason why the coaches don't trust him down there.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
Dynasty hold, cross fingers he's out of there next yr and goes to a KC or something
Yeah, I think that actually matches what I've seen but haven't been able to articulate. This is my first time owning either of them.
Yep, if they won't give him a goal line carry on his birthday after a week of getting a barrage of questions about their usage it's not happening when both are healthy.
The only real hope for Walker, and Charbs for that matter, is if they look things over during the bye and realize they need to get the RB's going in the passing game due to the lack of receiving talent outside of JSN. Not counting on it, at all.
This RBBC would not be as bad if there was more to go around but if one of the two was getting 100% of the work they'd only be RB6 right now. Just not a fantasay friendly RB offense.
Down to 9.51 if you remove the game Charbs did not play.
On that note in 6 full games together Charbs is leading him by about half a point and it's actually a little surprising it's that close since it's 4-1-1 in Charbs favor in PPR scoring in their 6 games, but one week was so close it feels a little like splitting hairs though techinically Charbs prevailed.
Walker has not outscored him in games they play together since week 2.
I know a lot of us own both of them and if you check most sites weekly rankings almost every single week they rank Walker higher. Should not be the case and while I'd rather not start any of them the reality is I'm going to have to and when I'm deciding between the two of them I'm starting Charbs.
Drake Hater
Footballguy
Pretty big indictment with that comparison to Charbs who was drafted way later. A lot of fantasy analysts had Walker ranked as a 3rd round pick this season. That definitely hasn't paid off.
We’re the same. After the bye I’ll be using Charbs over Walker until something changes.
jm192
Footballguy
IIRC, I was seeing him in the 4th a lot.
The one re-draft league I got him in, he was a 5th rounder. But yeah, feels bad owning him right now.
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
He was right around 3.11 in most FFPCs that I recall
Drake Hater
Footballguy
ESPN had him at 44 overall, which is 4th round. However I did some ranking consolidations with other well known sources and he averaged out at 41st. So the 3/4 turn. Mike Clay had him projected for 1516 total yds and 11 touchdowns. Yeesh....that ain't happening.
Yeah, Walker's a bust of course, not really of his doing but it is what it is.
I was thinking of this last night and the most non-injury related unstartable players who were chosen in the first 4 rounds of my drafts would be Henderson followed closely by Walker. Kamara might be next. RB dead zone started early this year.
This is based on ADP for the month of August in FFPC but check out this ugly group which started with Walker at 3.11 and in order went:
James Cook
Henderson
Kamara
Breece Hall
Chubba
Harvey
Conner
Swift
Pollard
Pachecho
Montgomery
Aaron Jones
Kaleb Johnson
Tracy
Phew, that's one ugly RB zone almost devoid of right answers. Cook and Swift are the two hits.
Charbonnet went just a little after this group in round 8 and he's actually at least solid value with contingent upside but I don't think he has the same upside a lot of us thought he did in the event of a Walker injury either. Mainly because they don't throw to the RB's and as I pointed out upthread if Walker or Charbs had 100% of the workload they'd be RB6. He'd still probably be a low end RB1 though, both would be if the other missed games.
Drake Hater
Footballguy
I was just reviewing my draft rankings as well and was really surprised at all the busts. Some due to injury which can't be predicted but the ones related to situation/performance seems exceptionally high this year.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
KW3 looks good to my eye ball test but barely scoring 20 points in 3 weeks just isn't cutting it. I will also be starting Charbs after this BYE
If you throw out the game Charbs missed and prorated the 6 full games they've played together, Walker would be on pace for 224 carries and 1,110 yards. If a time traveler had dropped this info on us when we were drafting we'd have been snapping him up where we took him.
Problem of course is those rushing yards only get you 6.5 fantasy points a game and he's also on pace in non-Charbs games for just 2.7 TD's and 20 receptions.
So to your point, yes he looks good, but it don't work for fantasy.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
3-4 touches a game is a big number over the course of a season.
But the bigger difference is that the touches are better distributed. Last few years he had a couple of really low touch games that brought the average down, but more importantly in a typical game now his touches are distributed with more rest in between. Rest that the defense isn't getting.
Again the proof is in the pudding. The last couple of years his YPC has gone down as the game has progressed, with the 4th quarter being his worse quarter (3.8ypc in 2023 and 2.6ypc in 2024). This year it's been the opposite and the 4th quarter is his best quarter (6.2ypc) as he remains fresh while the defense is worn down.
Even this week he was 3-30 in the 4th quarter, and that's not counting another 17 yard run he had in the 4th quarter that was called back by penalty.
Meanwhile the Seahawks are 5-2, top 5 in the NFL in 4th quarter time of possession, and are a couple of flukey plays from being 7-0.
Functioning as designed.
This is cherry picking.
Last week Seattle had ONE TD drive. Here is how it went:
Kickoff
15:00 - 3rd
C.Little kicks 61 yards from JAX 35 to SEA 4. D.Young to SEA 23 for 19 yards (R.Lane; D.Striggow).
4-yd Run
14:55 - 3rd
K.Walker left end to SEA 27 for 4 yards (D.Lloyd; D.Gardeck).
1st & 10 at SEA 23
10-yd Run
14:18 - 3rd
K.Walker up the middle to SEA 37 for 10 yards (A.Wingard).
2nd & 6 at SEA 27
3-yd Pass
13:47 - 3rd
(No Huddle, Shotgun) S.Darnold pass short middle to K.Walker to SEA 40 for 3 yards (F.Oluokun).
1st & 10 at SEA 37
13-yd Pass
13:05 - 3rd
(Shotgun) S.Darnold pass short left to J.Smith-Njigba to JAX 47 for 13 yards (D.Lloyd).
2nd & 7 at SEA 40
29-yd Pass
12:26 - 3rd
S.Darnold pass short middle to C.Kupp to JAX 18 for 29 yards (M.Brown).
1st & 10 at JAX 47
7-yd Run
11:43 - 3rd
K.Walker left end pushed ob at JAX 11 for 7 yards (A.Wingard).
1st & 10 at JAX 18
0-yd Run
11:04 - 3rd
K.Walker up the middle to JAX 11 for no gain (J.Lewis; A.Wingard).
2nd & 3 at JAX 11
11-yd Touchdown Pass
10:14 - 3rd
(Shotgun) S.Darnold pass short left to C.Kupp for 11 yards, TOUCHDOWN. J.Myers extra point is GOOD, Center-C.Stoll, Holder-M.Dickson.
3rd & 3 at JAX 11
Not only that, it is a fact that Charbonnet is literally one of the worst RB's statistically in the NFL.
Now, that being said, there is little doubt Charbonnet is the better start. He's getting the looks that matter. Why? No idea.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
I get it. There’s nothing that anyone can say that will convince you otherwise. Good luck dying on that hill.
LawFitz
Footballguy
The post you quoted literally gave you a good idea.
That said, this could all turn around quick, if K9 gets hot as the more explosive player. But at this point, you are waiting and hoping.
No. Bronco cherrypicked one game and stated it as fact. The week before Walker was far better at moving the chains.
Charbonnet is terrible. Stats clearly state that. So my "no idea" is in reference to why he continues to get the work he does.
Is what I stated wrong? You took one half of a game and stated THIS is why Charbonnet gets x amount of work.
Yet other examples show otherwise.
The true facts are neither have been lighting the world on fire.
You stated Walker "can be tackled easy" yet he broke the most tackles in all of 2024. That's an incorrect opinion on your part.
Alpha Dawgs
Footballguy
I really liked Walker had him last season. He has been my flex every week except week 2. Now he will most likely be on the bench for the remainder of the season unless injuries bring him back to the starting lineup. Currently have Henry, K Williams, Dowdle & Spears then Hampton when he comes off IR.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Like I said, you aren’t willing to get it.
Where did I use his stats as a sample size? I didn’t. I did use his performance in the half as a very clear example of why Walker is not a complete running back and a microcosm of his weaknesses, and how those weaknesses can negatively impact the offense as a whole.
In the meantime in that half Charbonnet was gashing the D and provided a very tough 1 yard plunge into heavy traffic at the goal line for a TD. Charbonnet was doing the type of work Walker can’t. It’s what makes the two backs such great complements and why SEA uses a RBBC and will most probably continue to do so.
I didn’t even touch on Walker’s propensity to injury and why that is motivation for coaches to control his workload.
But like I said, you just continue to preach to everyone here how superior Walker is and how stupid Kubiak is in his usage over and over and over - because you know better, despite the obvious.
Again, you used one half as your proof to support your opinion. All I did was provide a very clear example that blew your opinion out of the water.
Charbonnet has been stuffed far more than the one 1 yard tough plunge you just referenced.
Charbonnet is not doing the type of work Walker "can't". That is a ridiculous statement. And again, your opinion. It's what the coaching staff chooses.
Furthermore, it's not just me questioning the usage. Almost every expert out there is questioning the plait when you consider the statistical proof that Charbonnet is one of the worst RB's in the NFL. Please, go research the data.
Who has been the RB to miss time due to an injury this year? Not Walker.
Sporting News
When asked about the current state of the rushing attack, Seahawks head coach Mike Macdonald pointed to a lack of execution as a major cause for the team's struggles.
"They are solid, sound plays," Macdonald said. "They are plays we've been running since April; it's not like we're reinventing the wheel every week, figuring out new ways to run the same package set of plays.
"It's a block here, it's a block there, it's a communication thing, it's an angle there, it's how we run it - it's all of these little things," he added.
The Seahawks have been utilizing a two-man backfield, with Kenneth Walker getting 78 carries to Zach Charbonnet's 60. Bear in mind, Charbonnet has also missed a game, so the difference would be smaller had he played in all six.
But Walker (4.7 yards per carry) is clearly the better runner, as he's averaging a full two yards more per carry than Charbonnet (2.6). That has led many Seahawks fans wondering why Walker isn't getting the ball more.
Macdonald touched on that subject on Thursday and it's clear there isn't likely to be a change in the team's approach.
"When asked about Ken Walker potentially earning more snaps due to his effectiveness relative to Zach Charbonnet, Mike Macdonald says they take stats into account but they have a plan for their RB usage, both are playing 'high-level football' and they’ll both keep being used," The Athletic's Michael-Shawn Dugar reported.
We beg to differ with Charbonnet playing "high-level" football.
His yards per carry speaks for itself and he just does not offer much as a playmaker, especially as compared to Walker, who is far more explosive and is capable of flipping a game on a dime.
Seattle has been able to overcome its run game struggles thanks to an effective pass attack that is thriving early on this season, but the Seahawks are going to have to get their ground attack going sooner rather than later to avoid being a one-dimensional offense.
Feeding Walker more would greatly help.
When asked about the current state of the rushing attack, Seahawks head coach Mike Macdonald pointed to a lack of execution as a major cause for the team's struggles.
"They are solid, sound plays," Macdonald said. "They are plays we've been running since April; it's not like we're reinventing the wheel every week, figuring out new ways to run the same package set of plays.
"It's a block here, it's a block there, it's a communication thing, it's an angle there, it's how we run it - it's all of these little things," he added.
The Seahawks have been utilizing a two-man backfield, with Kenneth Walker getting 78 carries to Zach Charbonnet's 60. Bear in mind, Charbonnet has also missed a game, so the difference would be smaller had he played in all six.
But Walker (4.7 yards per carry) is clearly the better runner, as he's averaging a full two yards more per carry than Charbonnet (2.6). That has led many Seahawks fans wondering why Walker isn't getting the ball more.
Macdonald touched on that subject on Thursday and it's clear there isn't likely to be a change in the team's approach.
"When asked about Ken Walker potentially earning more snaps due to his effectiveness relative to Zach Charbonnet, Mike Macdonald says they take stats into account but they have a plan for their RB usage, both are playing 'high-level football' and they’ll both keep being used," The Athletic's Michael-Shawn Dugar reported.
We beg to differ with Charbonnet playing "high-level" football.
His yards per carry speaks for itself and he just does not offer much as a playmaker, especially as compared to Walker, who is far more explosive and is capable of flipping a game on a dime.
Seattle has been able to overcome its run game struggles thanks to an effective pass attack that is thriving early on this season, but the Seahawks are going to have to get their ground attack going sooner rather than later to avoid being a one-dimensional offense.
Feeding Walker more would greatly help.
SI
Though the Seattle Seahawks are 4-2 and favored by a field goal to beat the Houston Texans Monday night at Lumen Field, there is growing frustration about their running back rotation. Among the 12s. And now it's spilling over to Fantasy Football owners.
Kenneth Walker has been much more productive. But Zach Charbonnet continues to get more and more snaps, and carries.
Walker has gotten more carries, but only 78 to 60. The production, however, is eye-popping disparate. Both backs have three rushing touchdowns, but Walker is averaging 4.7 yards per run and Charbonnet only 2.6.
"We take stats into account, but ... we have a plan on how to use our guys and both guys are playing high-level football for us," Seahawks' head coach Mike Macdonald said this week. "Both guys have things they need to work on. But we love both guys, and they're both going to keep playing for us."
Pro Football Network's Fantasy Football are the latest to throw shade at Macdonald for his stubbornness at using Charbonnet.
Walker played a season-low 33.3% of the offensive snaps last week in the win over the Jaguars, and has yet to play 55% in a game. Macdonald, clearly, is trying to navigate his workload so he's fresh for a playoff run in December.
"I could regurgitate an updated version of the numbers that I use in this space weekly, though we know my spewing fixes nothing, PFN writes. "Seattle is committed to this committee, and that means Zach Charbonnet (one of 60 carries this season has gained more than eight yards) is going to get enough work to make starting Walker uncomfortable."
The UCLA alum is the Seahawks' short-yardage back, so at times the yards are tougher. But he has the position's third-worst explosive play rate at 1.7%, the NFL's highest rate of runs for 0 or negative rushing yards at 31.7%, and his 2.6 yards per carry is dead last among all running backs.
Writes PFN:
"It feels inevitable that Walker will take over the lead role in this offense (Charbonnet doesn’t have a 10-yard run in four of his five games this season), but in a very New Englandly type of rotation, I refuse to bet against stubborn head coaches."
Though the Seattle Seahawks are 4-2 and favored by a field goal to beat the Houston Texans Monday night at Lumen Field, there is growing frustration about their running back rotation. Among the 12s. And now it's spilling over to Fantasy Football owners.
Kenneth Walker has been much more productive. But Zach Charbonnet continues to get more and more snaps, and carries.
Walker has gotten more carries, but only 78 to 60. The production, however, is eye-popping disparate. Both backs have three rushing touchdowns, but Walker is averaging 4.7 yards per run and Charbonnet only 2.6.
"We take stats into account, but ... we have a plan on how to use our guys and both guys are playing high-level football for us," Seahawks' head coach Mike Macdonald said this week. "Both guys have things they need to work on. But we love both guys, and they're both going to keep playing for us."
Pro Football Network's Fantasy Football are the latest to throw shade at Macdonald for his stubbornness at using Charbonnet.
Walker played a season-low 33.3% of the offensive snaps last week in the win over the Jaguars, and has yet to play 55% in a game. Macdonald, clearly, is trying to navigate his workload so he's fresh for a playoff run in December.
"I could regurgitate an updated version of the numbers that I use in this space weekly, though we know my spewing fixes nothing, PFN writes. "Seattle is committed to this committee, and that means Zach Charbonnet (one of 60 carries this season has gained more than eight yards) is going to get enough work to make starting Walker uncomfortable."
The UCLA alum is the Seahawks' short-yardage back, so at times the yards are tougher. But he has the position's third-worst explosive play rate at 1.7%, the NFL's highest rate of runs for 0 or negative rushing yards at 31.7%, and his 2.6 yards per carry is dead last among all running backs.
Writes PFN:
"It feels inevitable that Walker will take over the lead role in this offense (Charbonnet doesn’t have a 10-yard run in four of his five games this season), but in a very New Englandly type of rotation, I refuse to bet against stubborn head coaches."
Walker finished as the #12 RB in PPG last year in PPR format?
Ahead of guys like:
Chase Brown
Breece Hall
Bucky Irving
Charbonnet, on the same team, was 32nd.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Uh, is Mike Macdonald playing fantasy football?
The point is the article says coaches are being stubborn by not giving KW3 a bigger workload. But KW3 got a bigger workload each of the last two years and performed much worse, and had lots of injury issues. They were stubborn in allowing him to keep that role as long as they did, which is a point I harped on all offseason. Everyone here kept saying "the coaches have shown time and time again that KW3 is the feature back". My whole point was that was just stubborness, and eventually they would probably change their mind and reduce his workload, which they did.
They finally stopped beating their head against the "let's make KW3 a feature back!" approach and have gotten better results by abandoning it. The article claiming that keeping him in a timeshare is stubborness is ridiculous, because they already tried 2 years of feature back KW3 and it didn't work, and it was only stuborness that kept him in that role for as long as it did.
rockaction
Footballguy
All the fantasy guys are on the coaches for using Charbonnet except for Matt Harmon, who is damn good at what he does and knows that fantasy desires don't drive either playing time or football outcomes.
I would love love love Walker to get more work. The coaches seem to have a very different opinion, and I don't think after reading Harmon that it's erroneous. They want a high success rate when running between the tackles and Charbonnet gives them what Walker can't.
I honestly don't get the protestations. The coaches want to not "get behind the sticks" and Walker isn't necessarily that guy.
I would love love love Walker to get more work. The coaches seem to have a very different opinion, and I don't think after reading Harmon that it's erroneous. They want a high success rate when running between the tackles and Charbonnet gives them what Walker can't.
I honestly don't get the protestations. The coaches want to not "get behind the sticks" and Walker isn't necessarily that guy.
Ok, let's take fantasy and opinions out of it.
2025:
Player A - 4.5 yards per rushing attempt.
Player B - 2.8 yards per rushing attempt
Those are facts. Who is more productive? Or "better results"?
Who should be getting more carries from the coaching staff.
Big Nate
Footballguy
YPC or rush doesn't paint the whole picture. Charbs isn't as a bad as Walker owners want him to be. And Walker also needs to execute some of the plays better and not lose yards. Sure the electric big play is nice but there are certain situations they want Charbs in.
That is the reality - the coaches are trying to win while we play fantasy and criticize the coaches. Charbs isn't a bad RB but people want him to be.
If we want to cherry pick stats Charbs had better YPC than Walker in both 2023 AND 2024. So before this year, by that metric, Charbs was better.
So what are we left with? SEA is a RBBC and will keep using both backs. If one gets injured then you hope to have the other.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
We've been through this exact conversation countless times.
KW3 is performing better this year because he's splitting time. Less work, and the work he gets is more spread out throughout the game. He's been more dynamic than the past 2 years as the feature back, and improved as the game has gone on instead of fading. He's also stayed healthier.
We had two straight years of KW3 underperforming as a feature back. Now he splits time and he's playing much better.
If you look at KW3's 5 most efficient games of 2024 and 2025, 4 of the 5 came in games where he split time, even though games where he split time are still a minority of the total sample size.
He has more 20+ yard runs this year in 5 games while splitting time than he did all of last year in 12 games.
His 4th quarter YPC is 6.2 this year splitting time, compared to 2.6 last year as the feature back.
The coaches are left with the choice of getting spry, dynamic KW3 for 55% of the snaps while he splits time on the other half, or getting spry, dynamic KW3 for 0% of the snaps while he plays worn down and injured as he did the previous few years.
They tried feature back KW3. It didn't work. Timeshare KW3 is working great.
It's clear you're an emotional KW3 fantasy owner and that's fine, but you're unwilling to look past it. I have two shares of Charbs and one of KW3 (and the league I have KW3 is the one that is much more important to me) so for fantasy purposes it's all a wash for me. But the reality is the coaches are happier with the split than they were with KW3 as the feature back, as they should be.
It wasn’t really ineffectiveness as a runner as to why they elected to not feature Walker anymore, though. He couldn’t stay healthy. Walker was regarded by many as the dynasty RB1 after his rookie season when he went for 1050 yards with 9 scores at 4.6 ypc. I don’t think anybody was arguing then that he needed to be the lesser part of a committee. For me, it’s not a skill issue with Walker. It’s can he hold up to 70% of the touches in a backfield including the tough goal line touches. I don’t think we’re going to know the answer to that until he moves on.
Lansdowne
Footballguy
Someone earlier compared Walker's situation to Julius Jones and it's stuck with me. A high upside RB but always stuck in a committee and having his fantasy ceiling capped because of it. The one year Jones broke 1,000 yards rushing he was limited on TD's because Marion Barber (RIP) was the TD vulture. I'm very eager to see where Walker lands in free agency next offseason because I can't imagine he'll want to stay in Seattle after seeing his usage tanked in his contract year.
rockaction
Footballguy
I don't know why you're ignoring charting data or can't wrap your head around the way different runs have different results for different guys.
This isn't all that confusing.
Player A has a success rate (this is important when we're talking about inside runs) of 50% on inside runs
Player B has a success rate of 25% on inside runs
Player B also has a slightly elevated risk of injury compared to the risk of injury to Player A on those inside runs
Okay then, we assume Player A gets the call when the situation calls for that type of run
Player A tops out at 16.9 MPH and his wide zone runs average 2.5 yards a rush and his long is 20
Player B tops out at 20.5 MPH and his wide zone runs average about 7 yards per carry and his long is 60 for a TD
Now we assume that Player B gets the call to run these types of runs
Player A and Player B are the same guy in these two scenarios.
Does any of this surprise you?
Who do you play and when?
Who do Player A and Player B sound like to you?
I mean, really.
Actually, let's use stats and charting data.
Next Gen stats:
Worst Efficiency as a runner - Zach Charbonnet
4th worst rush yards over expected - Zach Charbonnet
Worst average yards per rush - Zach Charbonnet
4th worst rushing yards over expected per attempt - Zach Charbonnet
I won't question your intelligence with comments like "can't wrap your ahead around" or "I mean, really".
There is no need for that here. It's been stated a few times.
Have a good evening.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Regardless of whether it's because he got tired or because he got dinged up a lot, the effect is the same. Whichever one it was that affected him for the last 2 years, it's not affecting him this year.
I think you're right and that injuries played a part. But even outside the injuries his effectiveness throughout the game has completely flipped this year.
Walker's YPC in the 1st half of the game this year is actually the same as it was in the 1st half last year. He's only averaging 3.1ypc in the 1st half of games this year.
The difference is that Walker has been a monster in the 4th quarter this year, whereas he sucked in the 4th quarter each of the two prior years. So I do think getting more rest throughout the game has had an impact.
rockaction
Footballguy
It’s not really that I sincerely questioned your intelligence. You can obviously write a sentence and draw an inference and all that. I’ve seen you in the Detroit thread. You’re capable of that. I’m just seeing if it’s complete obduracy and bad faith.
And it is! But I wonder further. . .
I don’t know. You tell me. Do you know what yards over expected measures? I’d love for you to explain in detail what those Next Gen Stats mean.
Do you know what RYOE takes as data inputs and how it works?
Do you know what EFF measures?
Do you know what the problem is with YPC and how and when it can be chalked up to a runner’s skill set?
I’ll listen. You have the floor.
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I've said this already but I'm not reaching your conclusion that getting more rest is the reason he's been more explosive. You could be right, but you present it as fact and to me it's opinion, not fact.
I think you are emphasizing that aspect, repeatedly, because it confirms your priors about Charbonnet needing more work and is now your go to reply for people who think Walker is under utilized so you just reply he's better with more rest so it's working.
Rest is usually going to help any RB, I will acknowledge that but we got other things at play such as his health, a totally different scheme, QB, and a first round draft pick IOL.
If rest was the only ingredient that does not explain why he was extremely explosive in year one and far less so in years 2 and 3 when he was seeing a similar workload.
I'm really over this topic and almost hate to wade back into it. Will just say I think the current staff is correct to use Charbs more then last year's staff. He should have nice role. I just think Walker has a whole lot more to offer then as a between the 20's runner with almost zero involvement in the passing game. I willl also say I think the staff should adjust a little more to whichever RB has a hot hand, there have been at least two games this year I think Charbs ran better and they should have leaned into him more as they should have with Walker in several other games.
Same to the bolded though I'd add I drafted Charbs more in redraft and he's actually solid value though I'd prefer one of them was a strong start instead of both being weak options.
TBD if I'm going to be thankful or not that I own the duo together on two dynasty teams. I can already say, with great ease, my most anticipated thing of FA this upcoming off-season is not seeing Walker extended by Seattle. I will be so flat if he stays. I think that one thing will be the difference between two of my dynasty teams getting two fantasy starting RB's or both of them getting none. Huge I say!
This.
As a Walker owner, I was pretty dismayed by what I saw as his misuse earlier in the year. But, I’ve since moved on from the denial and anger stages to acceptance. Whatever the reasons, it’s just not gonna happen for him without an injury to Charbs.
Thankfully, I own him in redraft. He was a bad pick by me, maybe my worst. If he ends up back with Seattle next year, I won’t draft him. If you’re in dynasty, you just have to hope he doesn’t re-sign with them.
