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Reality show contestant possibly cheats on DraftKings...UPDATE Draftkings strips Bachelor contestant of 1M prize (1 Viewer)

There is a ton of this going on in DFS.  Because they are married this one is easy to catch.  Still doesn't make it worse than 2+ friends who don't live together doing it.  That's happening constantly with DFS.

If DraftKings takes away this prize i guarantee the internet mobs will go back and find other contests where the same thing was done.

They almost have to just let things stand up to this point.  Going forward they can try to come up with a better approach.  Their current system is open to being gamed and the've known it for a long time.

 
How would they ever know? What if our lineups naturally were unique and had maximum coverage? Are we now colluding?  Who is the determinant of this arbitrary rule?
If that happened once... yeah, maybe a coincidence.

If the same grouping of players tends to frequently enter the same contests with a large number of highly unique entries... probably not a coincidence.

 
How would they ever know? What if our lineups naturally were unique and had maximum coverage? Are we now colluding?  Who is the determinant of this arbitrary rule?
Because they have the data. The odds of us having no overlap/maximum coverage on a short slate are it's OJ's blood because DNA type numbers. In the case of the two reality contestants there are many other factors too. One being the girl never played DFS in her life, marries a a high volume/high stakes DFS player and max entries into the biggest contest right out of the gate? C'mon. They have time stamps. Other contests entries. There are going to be clear patterns. Everybody can see what's going on here.

 
If I had to speculate, and this is just a wild guess, I'd bet DK is pretty unhappy right now with Jade's brilliant tweet.

 
The greatest trick DFS pulled is making people believe it was FF.

DFS is dominated by people using computer programs to generate their lineups.  None of the top players are crafting their lineups manually.

Whoever has the best software will win the most in the longterm.  They don't have to know anything about sports.

 
The greatest trick DFS pulled is making people believe it was FF.

DFS is dominated by people using computer programs to generate their lineups.  None of the top players are crafting their lineups manually.

Whoever has the best software will win the most in the longterm.  They don't have to know anything about sports.
But, but...

"Everyone knows the most fun part of fantasy sports is drafting your team.  Now with DFS, you can have fun with your friends drafting a brand new team every day!"

 
:doh: right. But not every combination is valid, since there's a salary cap. We're probably talking about 300 entries buying up a small percentage of all possible entries, not a guarantee, but, enough to make coordination profitably feasible. 
Doh! Good point as well.  

 
:doh: right. But not every combination is valid, since there's a salary cap. We're probably talking about 300 entries buying up a small percentage of all possible entries, not a guarantee, but, enough to make coordination profitably feasible. 
A dfs pro's return on investment going to be (I think) anywhere between 15-30%. Fair to say that having those 150 extra millymaker lineups allows him to skim about $600-$700 bucks out of the prize pool on average while also having an advantage over the field of hitting the motherload, which he did this time. .

 
A dfs pro's return on investment going to be (I think) anywhere between 15-30%. Fair to say that having those 150 extra millymaker lineups allows him to skim about $600-$700 bucks out of the prize pool on average while also having an advantage over the field of hitting the motherload, which he did this time. .
I am curious how many of the top pros max enter something like the Milly maker on a consistent basis.  

 
Which comments are you referring to - my nonchalance of their collusion or my brain fart on the math of the # of LUs?
I think the overall nonchalance, no big deal, just wondered.  

Seemed like you were just in the mood to find a way to disagree.  :)

I think Walking Boot (and Nipsey) have consistently made excellent and compelling points in the thread.  

 
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I think the overall nonchalance, no big deal, just wondered.  

Seemed like you were just in the mood to find a way to disagree.  :)

I think Walking Boot (and Nipsey) have consistently made excellent and compelling points in the thread.  
I mean, I disagree, but not arguing a side just to do so.  

I admitted that it's probably not the best way to look at it, but I assumed this is going on all the time.  I am honestly trying to figure out my line of "against the rules" vs. flat out cheating.  Like I said - I see all the time in all sorts of contests and $ levels same lineups and same LUs with the logos from sites. As somebody else posted - dfs is all about the computer sims and AI programs.  So if that is the issue, there is A LOT of cracking down that needs to be done.  If that's not the issue at hand, and it's more the implication that the pot is going to be shared between this pair, I don't know how you police that.  

A lot of my disagreement was with the example Al gave in that podcast where what he described as being the core issue with those 3 guys that shared a cash LU.  

 
about the same number who enter the NFL $200k Slant ($9, 150 max).
Which is?

My question pertained to the pods I listen to claiming that they don't enter those types of contests because they think it's a sucker bet and they are made to mass enter.  A lot claim to focus mostly on cleaning up on smaller contests and SE or 5 max entry contests.  

 
Which is?

My question pertained to the pods I listen to claiming that they don't enter those types of contests because they think it's a sucker bet and they are made to mass enter.  A lot claim to focus mostly on cleaning up on smaller contests and SE or 5 max entry contests.  
number of "pros" i mean.

awesomo, the burrito brothers, Moklovin, condia (when he was playing) and the others are slum around low $$$ GPPs.

i remember last year (?) there was some blowback from the Joe Six Pack DFS community about this practice - i.e. sharks swimming w guppies - so maybe they've moved on to higher stakes. i don't think it's the case, since i may throw a $2 bullet in a SE NBA contest just to have some action, and am proud when i cash and awesomo doesn't

 
If you have 10 lineups and I have 11 I have an advantage. Not as big as 150/300 but still an advantage. Beyond that they colluded.
Of course but you still had more at risk. This is like saying someone who buys 10 boxes in a super bowl grid while everyone else buys 1 is a cheater. 

 
number of "pros" i mean.

awesomo, the burrito brothers, Moklovin, condia (when he was playing) and the others are slum around low $$$ GPPs.

i remember last year (?) there was some blowback from the Joe Six Pack DFS community about this practice - i.e. sharks swimming w guppies - so maybe they've moved on to higher stakes. i don't think it's the case, since i may throw a $2 bullet in a SE NBA contest just to have some action, and am proud when i cash and awesomo doesn't
DK supposedly tried to adjust this by limiting the top $ guys to $5 and up contests (or was it $4).

Still does nothing- I see cpt spaulding and others consistently at the top of damn near ever 25cent contest I am in.  I am guessing that some players throttled down to low stakes so it took longer to reach the total threshold that DK put forth.  

 
Apparently a personal friend of the husband of the winner(s) & also a DFS player. And after looking, also a former Bachelor contestant (Chris Randone?)

https://twitter.com/TravisMangone/status/1214029631424225280

Chris congratulated the wrong person.....oops! Then deleted the tweet and set his twitter account to private :lol:  

------------------------

Twitter is great :lol:  https://twitter.com/BrofessorOne/status/1214597832813891585

Odds there's a "friend" with only Brady & Cousins?? :lol:  (The 2 QB's Jade/husband didn't go in on with only 5 totals entries amongst the 300 total)

 
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Correct, meaning 4 total entries versus 300.  If you reduce the amount any one person can submit and make it exponentially more difficult to build a pool of entries to “collude” with, it will take away the incentive.   Way too much work for me to find another 299 people to submit one entry than telling my wife to submit 150 on top of mine.
If you don’t think there are groups of people (20+) are already doing this, you aren’t living in reality.  They just aren’t stupid enough to get caught.    

 
If you don’t think there are groups of people (20+) are already doing this, you aren’t living in reality.  They just aren’t stupid enough to get caught.    
I am sure there are. I don’t care as I would never play DFS. However it is clearly harder to collude if the max entries per person go down.

 
I am sure there are. I don’t care as I would never play DFS. However it is clearly harder to collude if the max entries per person go down.
I agree but you also have to consider the total of ALL entries. For example, if my wife and I can put in 300 entries in a contest with 100,000 people....that's 0.3% of entries.

If we enter another contest that is single entry (meaning we have 2 entries together) and the max on that one is only 1,000 people....that's 0.2% of entries.

Fairly close. 

 
There are existing lottery syndicates that attempt to buy all the numbers in PowerBall and whenever the lottery reaches a high enough number. Investors pool money to buy enough tickets to have a good shot at making money.

The main issues are:

1) splitting the pot. There are several syndicates working at the moment, I think at least six, and if two or three of them attempt to hit the same jackpot, a split pot will give them a huge loss.

2) entering all the numbers. The lottery will not accept pre-printed or computer-printed pick cards. All those bubbles have to be filled in by hand. The syndicates employ teams of day-laborers to fill out the cards, but they have to ensure accuracy. Then the tickets have to be purchased and scanned, which leads to:

2A) breaking up the teams into enough trustworthy groups to buy 10,000 tickets at a time, and occupying several storefront retailers all day scanning in tickets. Not all retailers will put up with this, since they're not making any real money off it. It is actually difficult to process all the tickets you need to buy before the next drawing. And you have to go to a retailer that is open to the public--even if he's in on the syndicate, they have to be a real retail location. Can't just open your own 7-11 and close the doors for one day while your machines hum along. The lottery will demand to see the security video of the purchase.

2B) Not all retailers know buying so many tickets is technically allowed, plus, the Lottery commissions do warn retailers to notify them if someone attempts to buy all the numbers. You're going to get attention and maybe shut out by someone who doesn't want to cooperate.

They don't actually buy every single combination for every single drawing. I believe they buy all the 5+1 combos with no duplicates, since hitting 5 plus the powerball on multiple tickets will still get them a profit even if none of them, by chance, happen to hit 6+1. If one does then that's even better, of course.

They will buy all the combos for some lesser drawings. Powerball and the big lotteries just have too many possible outcomes. They'll also hit the "roll up" jackpots whenever those occur (a roll-up is when the lottery has a deadline to pay out the jackpot... on the last drawing in the period if no one has 6+1, then they'll split the big prize with all 5+1 winners and start the jackpot over from the minimum next time).

The main differences between this and the DFS situation is 1) it's not explicitly against the rules, because, 2) the suckers still show up to play the lotto even though there are syndicates. The game is big enough that the lottery will still get the guy with a dollar and a dream taking his stab at the PowerBall. The ratio of syndicate-to-sucker money in lottery is a lot different than it is in DFS, and if DFS didn't at least put on the show of limiting collusion, would be even worse for them. DFS has to present the illusion that some guy can walk in off the street with his nine favorite football players and win big. But no one would believe it without the collusion rules.
So no fundamental mathematical difference between DFS and Lotto, just business and scale reasons to not allow syndicates in DFS.

 
I'm unclear why so many posters are arguing that what occurred here isn't against the rules. It very clearly is.

Whether or not the rules should preclude what this couple did is a different question and certainly a matter of opinion, but there really isn't any debate that the existing rules do prohibit what this couple did.

 
The 2nd place finisher lawyering up...is that just kind of a shot across the bow to show DK what's coming if they don't rule in his favor? I figured the guy would wait and see what DK's ruling was before lawyering up. I guess it makes sense.

 
I'm unclear why so many posters are arguing that what occurred here isn't against the rules. It very clearly is.

Whether or not the rules should preclude what this couple did is a different question and certainly a matter of opinion, but there really isn't any debate that the existing rules do prohibit what this couple did.
i don't see many people arguing that they didn't break the TOS for DraftKings.  The problem is that a lot of people do it.  They just aren't married so harder to catch.

Coordinating with other people to circumvent the entry limit happens.  Anyone who thinks a lot of these DFS "pros" aren't doing it are being naive.

The whole industry is a mess.  Good luck with their IPO.

 
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i don't see many people arguing that they didn't break the TOS for DraftKings.  The problem is that a lot of people do it.  They just aren't married so harder to catch.

Coordinating with other people to circumvent the entry limit happens.  Anyone who thinks a lot of these DFS "pros" aren't doing it are being naive.

The whole industry is a mess.  Good luck with their IPO.
Their IPO will not fail because DFS has served its purpose for them. It gave them customers and helped the legal process for sports betting. DK could make $0 for the rest of time off DFS and be fine IMO.

As to “everyone does it”... the analogy here is blowing by the cops doing 95 hanging out the window flipping them off and then when pulled over saying “everyone speeds”. If you look into the details, they didn’t practice the slightest bit of subtlety and effectively admitted it online before deleting everything. At this point whether it’s provable in a court of law or not, or if anyone else does it to a degree or not, if you believe she made that lineup the earth is probably flat.

Now DK is using every ounce of their power to control this story. Even one of the absolute goats of the industry Adam Levitan admitted on his podcast that he cut his discussion of it because Draftkings specifically reached out to him and said don’t discuss it. 

I think DK would gladly pay them and 2nd place the million to have this go away. My guess is a settlement that’s nearly or all of the money and a gag order.  I’m just guessing at that though, all of their options are terrible. 

 
Can someone explain to me why syndicate play is not allowed? How is it different than a Lotto pool?
Many reasons, but for starters because ownership percentages matter a lot to win large field GPPs. Experts spend countless hours projecting who is likely to be owned on how many lineups for a reason. It greatly impacts your chance of winning. Now what if you knew the answer for at least 150 of the entries? How about 300? How about 3,000?  How about 30,000?  If a group wanted to they could completely manipulate the market. 

If 200,000 people controlled the stock market, would you care that 30,000 of those people were actually 1 person?

 
As to “everyone does it”... the analogy here is blowing by the cops doing 95 hanging out the window flipping them off and then when pulled over saying “everyone speeds”. If you look into the details, they didn’t practice the slightest bit of subtlety and effectively admitted it online before deleting everything. At this point whether it’s provable in a court of law or not, or if anyone else does it to a degree or not, if you believe she made that lineup the earth is probably flat.
Agree, others who are doing it aren't being as obvious.  She and her husband definitely teamed together and broke TOS.  It has shined a light on the shadiness of the industry and now maybe some of the others doing it will think twice...or they will just take more precautions and keep doing it.  Who knows.

 
Risk is 10x higher,  but odds of reward more than 10x.
Yeah, I just don't see the big deal. I guess Im of the mindset this is not cheating and it would be pretty hard to convince me otherwise so I wouldn't bother if I were you lol

 
Yeah, I just don't see the big deal. I guess Im of the mindset this is not cheating and it would be pretty hard to convince me otherwise so I wouldn't bother if I were you lol
It's been explained thoroughly, over and over in the thread.  Honestly, it's hard to understand at this point why people think it's NOT cheating.

 
It's been explained thoroughly, over and over in the thread.  Honestly, it's hard to understand at this point why people think it's NOT cheating.
I read the whole thread. Unless they guaranteed themselves first place all I see is they increased their odds but also put more at risk which anyone can do if they wanna risk it.

 
Yeah, I just don't see the big deal. I guess Im of the mindset this is not cheating and it would be pretty hard to convince me otherwise so I wouldn't bother if I were you lol
I guess if two siblings/relatives/spouses colluded in your local league to form one super team, you would just shrug your shoulders and not think it’s a big deal.

And it potentially cost one guy $900,000.  That’s a pretty big deal to someone if an unfair advantage resulted in the loss of that much money.

 
I read the whole thread. Unless they guaranteed themselves first place all I see is they increased their odds but also put more at risk which anyone can do if they wanna risk it.
Come on man.  You are a math guy - it’s not that simple.

 
This story is so awesome on so many levels.  

The fact someone congratulated the wrong person to set off warning bells.

The fact that the couple is now claiming they were not colluding and it was plain luck that the wife won, even though they submitted 300 entries and 298 of them were completely unique - and there is a mountain of evidence against them.

This a huge deal among the DFS community (of which I am not a part).  Is it being done by others?  Wouldn't doubt it.  So brazenly by a psuedo-celebrity couple?  Ooof.

The fact DK is about to go public, losing money hand over fist and now has to deal with this.

And I just can't wait for the ruling and as someone mentioned previously, I'm sure they will be able to find additional similar instances were team(s) colluded to win large GPP's.

I bet @Assani Fisher would have some strong opinions on this one :popcorn:

 
I read the whole thread. Unless they guaranteed themselves first place all I see is they increased their odds but also put more at risk which anyone can do if they wanna risk it.
You are aware of how written rules work, right? 

We can debate the necessity/fairness of the rule all day....but the TOS clearly says no collusion and that's exactly what they did. 

 
I guess if two siblings/relatives/spouses colluded in your local league to form one super team, you would just shrug your shoulders and not think it’s a big deal.

And it potentially cost one guy $900,000.  That’s a pretty big deal to someone if an unfair advantage resulted in the loss of that much money.
This is different because other teams can pick from the same pool of players. 

And how did it cost someone 900k? One of their 300 lineups was better than one of his 150 lineups. Even if you gave him another 150 lineups there's no guarantee he would've then won. 

 
shadyridr said:
This is different because other teams can pick from the same pool of players. 

And how did it cost someone 900k? One of their 300 lineups was better than one of his 150 lineups. Even if you gave him another 150 lineups there's no guarantee he would've then won. 
i don't think it's about "guarantees" - more about advantages.

i don't play in multi-entry GPPs unless i plan to max-enter. why? 1) i'm a casual player, 2) i don't use an optimizer or pay for Tout Services. if i have the goal of binking a huge tournament (which for the type of player i am and research resources at my disposal, is a complete pipe-dream), it doesn't make much sense to enter a single bullet against another player who enters 150. now, maybe that guy is just a casual player like me  but has a bigger bankroll or tolerance for losses. in either case, he's got 149 more chances to cash than i do. not that he's guaranteed to win of course, but 149 more just the same.

 

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