Reds sign Harang to 4 yr contract! (1 Viewer)

[fasteddie_21]

Ted Lilly, Jeff Suppan, Vicente Padilla, and Gil Meche all got contracts paying more than 10 million a year. The Reds just signed the NL leader last season in wins, K's, and complete games for less than that for 4 years. Best signing of the offseason. Does anyone realize that the Reds could possible have the Cy Young award winner next season and the Gold Glove winner at SS and be paying less than 14 million a year for it? He has made 80 consecutive starts without walking more than 3 batters.

Best move of Krivsky's career, imo. He and Brandon Phillips have been masterful strokes. He's made some mistakes, but nothing too terrible (including the Kearns/Lopez deal), provided Bray and Maj return to form this season. Harang in 2006 was one of a select few pitchers to lead the National League in wins and strikeouts. Some of the other names on that list that Krivsky dropped were Koufax, Carlton, Drysdale, Seaver, Johnson, and Gooden. It was also the first time a Reds pitcher had accomplished the feat since Ewell Blackwell in 1947.

Good day for us Reds fans!

-fe

 

[No. 16]

And he was once an Oakland A. I doun't know what we got for him, but I doubt we still have that player on our roster.

 

[Bonzai]

 

[Poison The Well]

And he was once an Oakland A. I doun't know what we got for him, but I doubt we still have that player on our roster.

Jose Guillen

 

[Weiner Dog]

Many players get contracts they do not deserve. Harang does not fall into this category.

He's a very solid lefty.

 

[Caesar]

This is the best signing by any team as far as I can tell. The price of starting pitching is ridiculous, and to see them get it done at a price they could handle shows volumes of Harang's character.

As a Reds fan, I am very happy with this signing. Not happy with the state of the team overall, but at least they may be headed in the right direction.

 

[Poison The Well]

Many players get contracts they do not deserve. Harang does not fall into this category. He's a very solid lefty.

Righty.

 

[SoFresh&SoClean]

Go Reds.

 

[RnR]

He's a very solid lefty.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Many players get contracts they do not deserve. Harang does not fall into this category. He's a very solid lefty.

"Doh"--

 

[On The Rocks]

nice.

 

[wadegarrett]

He's a very solid lefty.

 

[Chemical X]

hijack

could use you baseballguys over at www.rotodugout.com

 

[cheese]

Go Reds.

 

[shuke]

Looking forward to opening day.

 

[David Yudkin]

By comparison, Clemens will probably get close to $1 million PER START.

 

[RnR]

By comparison, Clemens will probably get close to $1 million PER START.

he's a solid lefty.

 

[skazooz]

Best move of Krivsky's career, imo. He and Brandon Phillips have been masterful strokes. He's made some mistakes, but nothing too terrible (including the Kearns/Lopez deal), provided Bray and Maj return to form this season.

You are horribly underselling how horrible that the Kearns/Lopez trade was. Austin Kearns is a top 5 right fielder. Yes, you read that correctly. Baseball Prospectus has Kearns pegged as 5 Wins above average (and the BP's WARP1 formula seriously discounts defense, of which Kearns is in the top 3 for his position). Last year Bray put up ~1 win above average, and Majewski was below average. Even if Bray improved, and Majewski reverted towards the mean it still wouldn't be equivalent to Kearns. For comparisons sake Scott Linebrink and Alan Embree were worth about 5 wins last year, and they formed the core of an excellent bullpen. Oh yeah, plus the Nats got some other player in the deal, and resigned Kearns to an excellent deal.

 

[shake zula]

Best move of Krivsky's career, imo. He and Brandon Phillips have been masterful strokes. He's made some mistakes, but nothing too terrible (including the Kearns/Lopez deal), provided Bray and Maj return to form this season.

You are horribly underselling how horrible that the Kearns/Lopez trade was. Austin Kearns is a top 5 right fielder. Yes, you read that correctly. Baseball Prospectus has Kearns pegged as 5 Wins above average (and the BP's WARP1 formula seriously discounts defense, of which Kearns is in the top 3 for his position). Last year Bray put up ~1 win above average, and Majewski was below average. Even if Bray improved, and Majewski reverted towards the mean it still wouldn't be equivalent to Kearns. For comparisons sake Scott Linebrink and Alan Embree were worth about 5 wins last year, and they formed the core of an excellent bullpen. Oh yeah, plus the Nats got some other player in the deal, and resigned Kearns to an excellent deal.

When I saw that deal go down last year, I thought surely someone will veto this. But apparently the deal came w/ vasoline so Krivsky didn't mind.

 

[guru_007]

Kearns is horrible overrated.

 

[skazooz]

Kearns is horrible overrated.

Way to use stats, facts, or proper grammar. Thanks for playing.

 

[On The Rocks]

Kearns is horrible overrated.

Way to use stats, facts, or proper grammar. Thanks for playing.

bad english aside, Kearns will break your heart.

 

[shake zula]

Kearns is horrible overrated.

In what aspect of his play?He hits, he runs, he gets on base, he fields well...yup overrated.

 

[guru_007]

Kearns is horrible overrated.

In what aspect of his play?He hits, he runs, he gets on base, he fields well...yup overrated.

He hits? .265 lifetime batting average says otherwise.He runs? 9 is his career high in steals. Hell, Jim Rice averaged 9 steals his first full 6 seasons...guess his speed was underrated.gets on base and fields.....a slight bit better than average. But I'll counter that with he strikes out WAY too much....maybe not Dunnesque, but approaching it.Dude's usually good for a DL stint or 4 during the regular season. Give me a few full regular of 100 or so runs, and 100 or so rbis and then come back to me. Until that time, I'll tag him with the overrated moniker.

 

[guru_007]

And back to the original topic, Harang is pretty good. But 9 million a year for a guy with a 47-43 career record? Sheesh, I know that compared to the market the Reds did well, but come on. Money today is ridiculous.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Can't argue that Kearns didn't develop nearly as well as I'd hoped after his first 500-700 ABs, but dealing two young players who'd shown big potential about to enter the "prime" years of their careers for two relief pitchers is ridiculously overpaying. And I'm not underrating the importance of a bullpen (or middle infield defense) to a team that will have difficulty competing for top starting pitching. But when it's been proven that you can find a 4.50 middle reliever with due diligence (freaking Chris Hammond anyone?), dealing players of that caliber for "arms" like Majewski and Bray is a horrible long term plan. Especially when your back up plan involves guys like Alex Gonzalez and Ray Olmedo among other bright luminaries.

Horrible.

The Harang deal, OTOH, is a great, great deal. If he can continue his recent production, he'll be an absolute steal as everybody has mentioned.

 

[skazooz]

Kearns is horrible overrated.

In what aspect of his play?He hits, he runs, he gets on base, he fields well...yup overrated.

He hits? .265 lifetime batting average says otherwise.He runs? 9 is his career high in steals. Hell, Jim Rice averaged 9 steals his first full 6 seasons...guess his speed was underrated.gets on base and fields.....a slight bit better than average. But I'll counter that with he strikes out WAY too much....maybe not Dunnesque, but approaching it.Dude's usually good for a DL stint or 4 during the regular season. Give me a few full regular of 100 or so runs, and 100 or so rbis and then come back to me. Until that time, I'll tag him with the overrated moniker.

Ok I get it, you don't actually know how to properly value players. It makes sense now. AVG is not a good indicator of batting ability. Yes he strikes out, so what? Would you rather he ground into a double play? Contact rate also isn't a good predictor of success. And Kearns fields much better than a slight bit above average, nearly all advanced fielding metrics agree that he is a top 3 fielder for his position. RBI's and Runs are team statistics, it's as lousy an arguement as wins are for pitchers. Kearns also played in 150 games last season, prior unrelated injuries are not predictive. Do you recall what ended his season eary last year? A collision with another player. Do you really have any good arguements as to his over-ratedness? All-Star Selections over more qualified players (nope). Salary (His deal looks like a good one to me) Anything? Or are you just going to point to RBI's, strikeouts and injuries again?

 

[guru_007]

Kearns is horrible overrated.

In what aspect of his play?He hits, he runs, he gets on base, he fields well...yup overrated.

He hits? .265 lifetime batting average says otherwise.He runs? 9 is his career high in steals. Hell, Jim Rice averaged 9 steals his first full 6 seasons...guess his speed was underrated.gets on base and fields.....a slight bit better than average. But I'll counter that with he strikes out WAY too much....maybe not Dunnesque, but approaching it.Dude's usually good for a DL stint or 4 during the regular season. Give me a few full regular of 100 or so runs, and 100 or so rbis and then come back to me. Until that time, I'll tag him with the overrated moniker.

Ok I get it, you don't actually know how to properly value players. It makes sense now. AVG is not a good indicator of batting ability. Yes he strikes out, so what? Would you rather he ground into a double play? Contact rate also isn't a good predictor of success. And Kearns fields much better than a slight bit above average, nearly all advanced fielding metrics agree that he is a top 3 fielder for his position. RBI's and Runs are team statistics, it's as lousy an arguement as wins are for pitchers. Kearns also played in 150 games last season, prior unrelated injuries are not predictive. Do you recall what ended his season eary last year? A collision with another player. Do you really have any good arguements as to his over-ratedness? All-Star Selections over more qualified players (nope). Salary (His deal looks like a good one to me) Anything? Or are you just going to point to RBI's, strikeouts and injuries again?

Sorry, I didn't realize I was arguing with an ACTUAL baseball GM. I can see that you have overwhelmed me with your statistical background to prove your point. Wait, I don't see any stats....but if you can't dazzle them with diamonds, baffle them with bull####. You are good with that. Good luck to you this year. If you're a Reds fan, probably going to be a good year, but there will be other GM positions open pretty soon.

 

[cheese]

Kearns is horrible overrated.

In what aspect of his play?He hits, he runs, he gets on base, he fields well...yup overrated.

He hits? .265 lifetime batting average says otherwise.He runs? 9 is his career high in steals. Hell, Jim Rice averaged 9 steals his first full 6 seasons...guess his speed was underrated.gets on base and fields.....a slight bit better than average. But I'll counter that with he strikes out WAY too much....maybe not Dunnesque, but approaching it.Dude's usually good for a DL stint or 4 during the regular season. Give me a few full regular of 100 or so runs, and 100 or so rbis and then come back to me. Until that time, I'll tag him with the overrated moniker.

Salary (His deal looks like a good one to me)

Seriously? I'm pretty sure he signed a 3 yr deal worth 17.5 mill plus incentives. Lopez was arbitration eligible and will make about $4 mill this year. I wouldn't want the Reds anywhere near those deals and those players would have walked as a result. I'm not going to get into the arguement of whether those are good deals or not, because the bottom line is the Reds would not have signed either of them rightly or wrongly. If you're not going to sign them, why not get something you desperately need for them?Oh, and obviously great deal for Harang.

 

[shake zula]

Kearns is horrible overrated.

In what aspect of his play?He hits, he runs, he gets on base, he fields well...yup overrated.

He hits? .265 lifetime batting average says otherwise.He runs? 9 is his career high in steals. Hell, Jim Rice averaged 9 steals his first full 6 seasons...guess his speed was underrated.gets on base and fields.....a slight bit better than average. But I'll counter that with he strikes out WAY too much....maybe not Dunnesque, but approaching it.Dude's usually good for a DL stint or 4 during the regular season. Give me a few full regular of 100 or so runs, and 100 or so rbis and then come back to me. Until that time, I'll tag him with the overrated moniker.

Ok I get it, you don't actually know how to properly value players. It makes sense now. AVG is not a good indicator of batting ability. Yes he strikes out, so what? Would you rather he ground into a double play? Contact rate also isn't a good predictor of success. And Kearns fields much better than a slight bit above average, nearly all advanced fielding metrics agree that he is a top 3 fielder for his position. RBI's and Runs are team statistics, it's as lousy an arguement as wins are for pitchers. Kearns also played in 150 games last season, prior unrelated injuries are not predictive. Do you recall what ended his season eary last year? A collision with another player. Do you really have any good arguements as to his over-ratedness? All-Star Selections over more qualified players (nope). Salary (His deal looks like a good one to me) Anything? Or are you just going to point to RBI's, strikeouts and injuries again?

Sorry, I didn't realize I was arguing with an ACTUAL baseball GM. I can see that you have overwhelmed me with your statistical background to prove your point. Wait, I don't see any stats....but if you can't dazzle them with diamonds, baffle them with bull####. You are good with that. Good luck to you this year. If you're a Reds fan, probably going to be a good year, but there will be other GM positions open pretty soon.

Why so heated?

 

[guru_007]

Why so heated?

I'm at work. I'm not hot ...yet

 

[shake zula]

Why so heated?

I'm at work. I'm not hot ...yet

I had no idea you hated Kearns so much...2 things quicky because I dont have time to get into actual stats and metrics that prove he's actually UNDERRATED.1-He's actually a great baserunner and fielder...top 10.2- He is a productive out machine ala IROD.

 

[skazooz]

Kearns is horrible overrated.

In what aspect of his play?He hits, he runs, he gets on base, he fields well...yup overrated.

He hits? .265 lifetime batting average says otherwise.He runs? 9 is his career high in steals. Hell, Jim Rice averaged 9 steals his first full 6 seasons...guess his speed was underrated.gets on base and fields.....a slight bit better than average. But I'll counter that with he strikes out WAY too much....maybe not Dunnesque, but approaching it.Dude's usually good for a DL stint or 4 during the regular season. Give me a few full regular of 100 or so runs, and 100 or so rbis and then come back to me. Until that time, I'll tag him with the overrated moniker.

Ok I get it, you don't actually know how to properly value players. It makes sense now. AVG is not a good indicator of batting ability. Yes he strikes out, so what? Would you rather he ground into a double play? Contact rate also isn't a good predictor of success. And Kearns fields much better than a slight bit above average, nearly all advanced fielding metrics agree that he is a top 3 fielder for his position. RBI's and Runs are team statistics, it's as lousy an arguement as wins are for pitchers. Kearns also played in 150 games last season, prior unrelated injuries are not predictive. Do you recall what ended his season eary last year? A collision with another player. Do you really have any good arguements as to his over-ratedness? All-Star Selections over more qualified players (nope). Salary (His deal looks like a good one to me) Anything? Or are you just going to point to RBI's, strikeouts and injuries again?

Sorry, I didn't realize I was arguing with an ACTUAL baseball GM. I can see that you have overwhelmed me with your statistical background to prove your point. Wait, I don't see any stats....but if you can't dazzle them with diamonds, baffle them with bull####. You are good with that. Good luck to you this year. If you're a Reds fan, probably going to be a good year, but there will be other GM positions open pretty soon.

Petty attacks, without anything to back it up, is this what you're reduced to? You offer nothing to refute anything I've said. Stats? Well I did point out his WARP1, up thread? Did you see that one? Huh? No? How about we simplify things for you. Last year Austin kearns was 2nd in HRs in the NL among RF's, and 3th in ZR in the NL as well (I think he came out 3rd in UZR, I can't find a cite for this last one, since UZR is a proprietary stat).So we have his pros:* Gets on base at an above average clip, .361 career vs a .345 league avg.* Slugs the ball above average as well, .463 career vs a .438 league avg.* Excellent fielder, see above.* Still under team control through arbitration for through 2007.And the actual cons:* Has missed large parts of previous seasons with injuries.* Ground into a large percentage of double plays* Is a poor percentage base stealer.* Strikes out in approx 20% of PA's.Now, lets look at other corner outfielders who register around a 5 WARP1at Burrell - 6 yrs/50mmBrian Giles - 3 yrs/30mmAnd Kearns just signed for 3/18. That looks pretty good to me. The only way this deal won't be valuable is if Kearns is injured for more than 1/4 the length of this contract.

 

[On The Rocks]

Reds extend Arroyo

 

[Jene Bramel]

May as well make this the Cincinnati Reds 2007 thread...

Arroyo signed to an extension today -- through 2010 with an option for 2011. Looks like a little less than the Harang deal if the option is exercised.

Whoops -- get distracted for a couple minutes and get scooped.

 

[On The Rocks]

there is going to be a ton of second guessing going on this year in cincy with respect to how they handle Homer Bailey.

i like the idea of starting him off in Louisville, but how long will they hold him down there?

 

[Jene Bramel]

there is going to be a ton of second guessing going on this year in cincy with respect to how they handle Homer Bailey.i like the idea of starting him off in Louisville, but how long will they hold him down there?

Given the way they've handled him so far, I'd guess they'd like at least another couple months of time in the minors. Depending on the state of the back end of the rotation, it could be shorter or longer but I think it's a longshot that he begins the season in the starting rotation.

 

[trogg78]

there is going to be a ton of second guessing going on this year in cincy with respect to how they handle Homer Bailey.i like the idea of starting him off in Louisville, but how long will they hold him down there?

There is only second guessing when they are losing...they arent going to lose this year.

 

[guru_007]

there is going to be a ton of second guessing going on this year in cincy with respect to how they handle Homer Bailey.i like the idea of starting him off in Louisville, but how long will they hold him down there?

There is only second guessing when they are losing...they arent going to lose this year.

Hate to rain on the Reds parade, but they may very well come in second to last this year......and the Pirates hardly count as they are a triple a franchise.

 

[Jene Bramel]

there is going to be a ton of second guessing going on this year in cincy with respect to how they handle Homer Bailey.i like the idea of starting him off in Louisville, but how long will they hold him down there?

There is only second guessing when they are losing...they arent going to lose this year.

What makes you think they'll be much better this year?