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Reggie Bush (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter wiscstlatlmia
- Start date
Fixed
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Does the fumbled exchange Bush fell on count as a rush or effect his yardage totals?
Everyone harps on Reggie Bush's yards per carry so much. I actually thought he looked great. Quick inside, making guys miss, finishing runs, and obviously his receiving ability hasn't left him. I'm not sure what some of you are expecting.
94 total yards and a touchdown is going to get him benched?! Ok.
The Dolphins don't face a Tom Brady led offense or the tandem of Vince Wilfork and Albert Haynesworth every game.
Everyone harps on Reggie Bush's yards per carry so much. I actually thought he looked great. Quick inside, making guys miss, finishing runs, and obviously his receiving ability hasn't left him. I'm not sure what some of you are expecting.
94 total yards and a touchdown is going to get him benched?! Ok.
The Dolphins don't face a Tom Brady led offense or the tandem of Vince Wilfork and Albert Haynesworth every game.
wudaben
Footballguy
It did count against Reggie's total and it was a bad toss by Henne. Take that play out and RB would have had 4.2ypc.
Frenchy Fuqua
Footballguy
FWIW...
Week 1 snaps (from Pro Football Focus)
Reggie Bush- 75
LeSean McCoy- 57
Matt Forte- 45
Chris Johnson- 44
Adrian Peterson- 37
Maurice Jones-Drew- 33
Michael Turner- 30
Week 1 snaps (from Pro Football Focus)
Reggie Bush- 75
LeSean McCoy- 57
Matt Forte- 45
Chris Johnson- 44
Adrian Peterson- 37
Maurice Jones-Drew- 33
Michael Turner- 30
This equals INJURY for BUSH, as like every year for him. He is the ultimate sell high
cr8f
Footballguy
Mediocre after one game? Sproles outplayed Reggie and was he drafted in the 4th round
That said there weren't a lot of great players that year
Reggie isn't as big a bust as Bobbie Carpenter at least
3 Tennessee Titans Vince Young QB Texas
4 New York Jets D'Brickashaw Ferguson T Virginia
5 Green Bay Packers A.J. Hawk OLB Ohio State
6 San Francisco 49ers Vernon Davis TE Maryland
7 Oakland Raiders Michael Huff SS Texas
8 Buffalo Bills Donte Whitner SS Ohio State
9 Detroit Lions Ernie Sims OLB Florida State
10 Arizona Cardinals Matt Leinart QB USC
11 Denver Broncos Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt
12 Baltimore Ravens Haloti Ngata DT Oregon
13 Cleveland Browns Kamerion Wimbley OLB Florida State
14 Philadelphia Eagles Brodrick Bunkley DT Florida State
15 St. Louis Rams Tye Hill CB Clemson
16 Miami Dolphins Jason Allen DB Tennessee
17 Minnesota Vikings Chad Greenway LB Iowa
18 Dallas Cowboys Bobby Carpenter LB Ohio State
19 San Diego Chargers Antonio Cromartie CB Florida State
20 Kansas City Chiefs Tamba Hali DE Penn State
21 New England Patriots Laurence Maroney RB Minnesota
22 San Francisco 49ers Manny Lawson OLB North Carolina State
23 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Davin Joseph G Oklahoma
24 Cincinnati Bengals Johnathan Joseph CB South Carolina
25 Pittsburgh Steelers Santonio Holmes WR Ohio State
26 Buffalo Bills John McCargo DT North Carolina State
27 Carolina Panthers DeAngelo Williams RB Memphis
28 Jacksonville Jaguars Marcedes Lewis TE UCLA
29 New York Jets Nick Mangold C Ohio State
30 Indianapolis Colts Joseph Addai RB Louisiana State
31 Seattle Seahawks Kelly Jennings CB Miami (Fla.)
32 New York Giants Mathias Kiwanuka DE Boston College
Grahamburn
Footballguy
He still only had 20 touches. They keep him on the field so the defense has to account for him.
Hmm.. So Reggie actually averaged about 4.2 last night? Interesting.
Hmm.. So Reggie actually averaged about 4.2 last night? Interesting.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
look at the date of his post, chief.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Wow. Really? The guy can't crack 4.0 for a career yet kept getting the nod for the Saints. Does nobody remember beyond 12 months around here? He had his best stats as a scat back which is not the definition of a good runningback and is recipe for disaster in the way they are going to try to use him. He is below mediocre as a RB. He catches the ball well, but does little with it. His YPR is low. His YAC is low. If he gets touched, he goes down.
And they did try to take Reggie around the outside, but he's not fast enough to beat NFL LB's to the corner.
And true, he won't play Brady and the Pats except for 1 more time in Foxborough, so this may be an aberration, but they are entirely consistent with his entire NFL career. Sub 4.0 YPC, mediocre YPR, a nice TD which bloats his fantasy numbers but earns him little on the field if he can't move the chains and the fact of the matter is he can't.
If anyone believes that when they meet tomorrow and go over game film and the coaches for Miami don't stress that he needs to improve his YPC and break tackles, you're dreaming. The fact is, he can't do either of those things. Makes for an electric return guy as he can run past people at full speed, but cutting through D-linemen usually stops him cold or the maybe a yard or two later when a LB sneezes on him.
He made these exact same type of stats in New Orleans, who could've very easily renegotiated his deal to his current one in Miami, but choose to jettison the guy for a sack of towels. But what do the coaches and FO of NOLA know about the guy, right?
Frenchy Fuqua
Footballguy
“@BenVolinPBP: Sparano says he wants to continue giving Reggie Bush about 20 touches per game”
gandalas
Footballguy
Why go all the way down to #18 for your example? Considering draft position, Ernie Sims has been just as big of a bust as Carpenter, if not more, thus far in their careers...Top-10 pick and that production?Reggie isn't as big a bust as Bobbie Carpenter at least
Last edited by a moderator:
wudaben
Footballguy
In 2006 Reggie was completely healthy and an integral part of the offense but it was still Deuce's team.PLAYER RSH YDS TD REC YDS TD
Deuce 244 1,057 10 30 198 0
Reggie 155 565 6 88 742 2
In 2007 Deuce was hurt right away and Reggie started off with poor performances against Indy, TB & Tennessee. He missed the final 4 games of the season with a partially torn PCL in his left knee.
Deuce 24 92 0 4 15 0
Reggie 157 581 4 73 417 2
Stecker 115 448 5 36 211 0
Pierre 52 252 1 17 151 1
In 2008 Reggie started the season very good but tore a meniscus in his left knee 5-6 games into the season. He later returned and sprained the MCL in the left knee and was placed on IR.
Pierre 129 625 9 31 284 3
Deuce 107 418 5 18 128 1
Reggie 106 404 2 52 440 4
Reggie's only real solo opportunities came at the beginning of 2007 & 2008. In 2007 their first 3 games were against the #1, #3 & #8 ranked defenses and they/he did poorly and it became a RBBC. In 2008 Reggie was dominant in a majority role at the beginning of the season before hurting his knee. Reggie's injuries in 2007-2009 were all related to the same knee. In 2009 he only had soreness in the knee from his offseason surgery. Since this time he has had no further problems with that left knee but he broke a bone in his foot last season.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
In limited roles that he didn't deserve, he couldn't stay healthy. They fed a very mediocre RB the ball for 5 years and only as a scat back could he do anything. He was never asked? They were begging for him to be a 20 carry back. He couldn't do it not because he wasn't asked to. VERY revisionist history...
Grahamburn
Footballguy
There aren't too many leagues giving points for carries these days. It doesn't seem like Miami wants him to be a 20 carry back either. It does look like they've centered their offense around him and would like to get him the ball via short passes and get him the ball in areas where he can succeed. Wa la. 20 touches, 94 yards, and a TD last night.A poor man's Jamaal Charles if you will. He might even finish higher than Charles the way the Chiefs look right now.
I know it's pointless to argue with you about this. I'm not even sure what Reggie Bush would have to accomplish to change your mind about him. You've been pretty adamant about your feelings regarding Reggie since he was drafted.
wudaben
Footballguy
While I think Reggie is a good FF play based on his ADP this year I do not have a need to slant any facts here. Is Reggie a bell cow sytle rb like Adrian Peterson? NO. Was he that exciting when he got a very limited chance in a RB only role? NO. Was he a good multi dimensional RB, Scatback before he hurt his knee? YESWas he really only used as basically a slot receiver after he hurt his knee? YESIf he gets enough touches this season and doesn't get hurt can he be a top 15 RB? YESAre those big IFs? YES
need2know
Footballguy
You can add one more question.when will he be hurt? SOON
You can't start tweeking stats like that. Are you going to watch every play of every RB in the league and adjust their stats accordingly?
Normally I'd agree ("if you take away his 2 long runs...", etc.), but this is a bit different- it it was a mix-up and a bad toss. He never had the ball, just jumped on it to recover, but it counted as a carry.In any event, I don't think 11 carries (including that one) confirms much of anything.
wudaben
Footballguy
That is entirely possible! Reggie basically had the same injury within that left knee for 2 years and outside of that the only other injury he had was a broken bone in his foot. Somewhere along the line he came back too early and made the injury effects last much longer but he hasn't had an issue with that knee since the off season of 2008.
rocketsauce
Footballguy
Some people are certainly drinking the Kool-Aid, as Bush just got traded in my main league (PPR) for Deangelo & Rob Gronkowski. Crazy good value for the Bush owner.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
My question was rhetorical. The point was to show that Bush actually had a respectable ypc, against a team with a stout interior line, if not for falling on that fumble. I thought he looked like a different running back last night and during the preseason. Time will tell if Reggie has matured as a runner or made enough changes that will translate into a respectable ypc over the course of the season.Regardless of his ypc, Reggie Bush will hold value simply because of his receiving ability combined with the lack of competition for touches.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
I agree with everything here. IF he brings up his YPC, he could be an everydown back. But the FFB guys that can't differentiate between the success of the players in fantasy and NFL, can't look past that performance last night as being nothing more than confirmation that he is a good RB, when all it proves is he's not even close. He's like the anti Troy Aikman. Rookies to FFB in the mid 90's drafted this guy left and right, not realizing that while he was on his way to the HOF in the NFL, he was nothing more than a marginal FFB QB most years. People assumed what he did on the field translated to winning in FFB, but that was rarely the case. Bush does well in FFB but doesn't move the chains when called upon. Not sure why I mentioned this. People who can't go back 12 months are going to have a much harder time going back 12 years...Reggie had some big holes to run through in one of those preseason games and looked fantastic. IF he gets holes like that, he can be a solid back IF he stays healthy.
wudaben
Footballguy
and he had some big holes early in the game last night as well but Miami will need to be creative in their play calling in order to prevent teams from stacking up against the run because Reggie will not succeed in that type of situation.
Dancing Bear
Footballguy
Sorry but you are completely MISTAKEN!The Fumble was Henne's; Bush recovered it, but he was not credited with a carry.Look at the Play-By-Play and see for yourself. He had 11 carries for 38 yards - a 3.45 ypc. If you were to add in the fumble recovery as a 12th carry then his ypc would go even lower ...You guys are amazing ... picking and choosing what carries you want to count for him so you can "boost" his numbers artificially.The facts are that in a pass happy game where Henne goes off the charts, Bush can only muster a 6.22 ypc on his 9 catches and you guys are happy. That's half the yardage it should have been for any decent RB. He still has not figured out the NFL and his paltry performance historically proves it consistently.After the first series he did not make anyone miss and went down at first contact ... 14 plays of 5 yards or less and six of these were passing plays where he was out on the flat where you all think he is god ...
Is the above bolded the only thing that matters in fantasy football? YESIs everything else useless information? YES
wudaben
Footballguy
In the stats on nfl.com last night it originally took -3yds from Reggie's total after that play so I assumed that it was still included today. I was mistaken if they have since removed it.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Exactly. I keep hearing he just needs to get into space, but he can't. Even when thrown to in space, he gets only 6 yards a grab. He tries to go around the outside and a LB drops him after 2-3 yards. If these stats were great, he would still be making $10 million this year in NO who would still be selling his jerseys by the truckload. Instead, he's making that over 2 years and it's not guaranteed after being traded for nothing.
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
You're mistaken.It counted as a fumble recovery and a rush for zero yards for Reggie Bush.
Chaka
Footballguy
I think it is your definition of force feeding that is bothering me. Chris Johnson getting the ball 408 times in 2009 is force feeding, Reggie's career high is 243 touches in a 16 game season isn't close to being force feeding.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
20 touches. 94 total yards. TD.
Against a team that controlled the entire game with their offense, employs two of the best interior run defenders in the NFL, and was obviously keyed on Bush with at least one LB for every passing play.
I liked the way Miami used him and think he looked pretty good. 20 touches is about right for him, and against some lesser teams the output with those touches could increase significantly.
The disdain for this guy is uncanny.
Against a team that controlled the entire game with their offense, employs two of the best interior run defenders in the NFL, and was obviously keyed on Bush with at least one LB for every passing play.
I liked the way Miami used him and think he looked pretty good. 20 touches is about right for him, and against some lesser teams the output with those touches could increase significantly.
The disdain for this guy is uncanny.
LittlePhatty
Footballguy
Agreed. People can cite all the history they want, but as for the "here and now" I thought he looked good. It's also clear the Dolphins want to use him as much as possible.
Frenchy Fuqua
Footballguy
Bush's ADP in PPR leagues was 70. Well worth the injury risk at that point. With his role in this O if he plays in 13-14 games he'll be one of the steals of the season.
wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
Bobby Carpenter*Mediocre after one game? Sproles outplayed Reggie and was he drafted in the 4th round
That said there weren't a lot of great players that year
Reggie isn't as big a bust as Bobbie Carpenter at least
3 Tennessee Titans Vince Young QB Texas
4 New York Jets D'Brickashaw Ferguson T Virginia
5 Green Bay Packers A.J. Hawk OLB Ohio State
6 San Francisco 49ers Vernon Davis TE Maryland
7 Oakland Raiders Michael Huff SS Texas
8 Buffalo Bills Donte Whitner SS Ohio State
9 Detroit Lions Ernie Sims OLB Florida State
10 Arizona Cardinals Matt Leinart QB USC
11 Denver Broncos Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt
12 Baltimore Ravens Haloti Ngata DT Oregon
13 Cleveland Browns Kamerion Wimbley OLB Florida State
14 Philadelphia Eagles Brodrick Bunkley DT Florida State
15 St. Louis Rams Tye Hill CB Clemson
16 Miami Dolphins Jason Allen DB Tennessee
17 Minnesota Vikings Chad Greenway LB Iowa
18 Dallas Cowboys Bobby Carpenter LB Ohio State
19 San Diego Chargers Antonio Cromartie CB Florida State
20 Kansas City Chiefs Tamba Hali DE Penn State
21 New England Patriots Laurence Maroney RB Minnesota
22 San Francisco 49ers Manny Lawson OLB North Carolina State
23 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Davin Joseph G Oklahoma
24 Cincinnati Bengals Johnathan Joseph CB South Carolina
25 Pittsburgh Steelers Santonio Holmes WR Ohio State
26 Buffalo Bills John McCargo DT North Carolina State
27 Carolina Panthers DeAngelo Williams RB Memphis
28 Jacksonville Jaguars Marcedes Lewis TE UCLA
29 New York Jets Nick Mangold C Ohio State
30 Indianapolis Colts Joseph Addai RB Louisiana State
31 Seattle Seahawks Kelly Jennings CB Miami (Fla.)
32 New York Giants Mathias Kiwanuka DE Boston College
yea it really is... either a lot of people have been burned by him due to injury in FF or they think he is a bust because of where he was drafted in 2006...I really don't get it... all i care about is whether or not he has value on my fantasy team.. and the answer is simply YES.. until further notice
Dancing Bear
Footballguy
Dear, dear Steelers4Life ...Have you actually had a look at the Play-By-Play? If you had you would discover this ...
1 - 1-10-NE 43 (14:19) 22-R.Bush up the middle to NE 30 for 13 yards (32-D.McCourty).
2 - 2-10-NE 10 (8:26) 22-R.Bush up the middle to NE 9 for 1 yard (92-A.Haynesworth).
3 - 1-10-MIA 20 (4:14) 22-R.Bush up the middle to MIA 22 for 2 yards (92-A.Haynesworth).
4 - 1-10-MIA 10 (14:00) (Shotgun) 22-R.Bush right guard to MIA 13 for 3 yards (25-P.Chung).
5 - 2-7-MIA 13 (13:26) (Shotgun) 22-R.Bush left tackle to MIA 17 for 4 yards (25-P.Chung).
6 - 2-10-MIA 33 (12:01) 22-R.Bush left guard to MIA 41 for 8 yards (25-P.Chung).
7 - 3-2-MIA 41 (11:20) (Shotgun) 22-R.Bush right end to MIA 41 for no gain (32-D.McCourty).
8 - 1-10-MIA 4 (6:34) 22-R.Bush up the middle to MIA 5 for 1 yard (94-S.Ellis).
9 - 2-23-MIA 41 (3:08) 22-R.Bush left guard to MIA 41 for no gain (91-M.Pryor).
10 - 1-9-NE 9 (13:13) 22-R.Bush left guard to NE 10 for -1 yards (59-G.Guyton).
11 - 1-10-MIA 11 (8:16) 22-R.Bush right tackle to MIA 18 for 7 yards (32-D.McCourty; 52-D.Fletcher).
Hey ... Henne's fumble isn't there ...
If this play had counted for your dear Reggie, then he would have had 12 rushes and not 11. Sorry but you are mistaken!
How about doing just a little homework?
nysportsfan
Footballguy
The more I think about how they use Bush, those dump offs are essentially like long handoffs. There's no point making him run between the tackles when you can get more production in open space. I don't expect them to feed him the ball traditionally, and I think that's the point. He's great at what he does, but I've given up on thinking of him as a traditional back. I imagine he is a full season of health away from a top 10 rb season in PPR. But that's also asking a lot, given his track record.
So when Reggie gets hurt, what is the backup plan in Miami? Is DThomas worth a roster stop? Can't imagine LJ being effective.. Does anyone have a strategy here?
RBush is my #2 RB right now... Blount my RB3, is looking very suspect. WW pickings are slim, but I do have Thomas available.
RBush is my #2 RB right now... Blount my RB3, is looking very suspect. WW pickings are slim, but I do have Thomas available.
If Bush got hurt and assuming Thomas is healthy, I don't see why Thomas wouldn't be given the shot. I think LJ is just a back up and may steal a few goal line carries here and there. Keep in mind, though, that Thomas had a pretty bad preseason. He wasn't as good as they were hoping. That being said, he'd still get his shot if Bush got hurt.So when Reggie gets hurt, what is the backup plan in Miami? Is DThomas worth a roster stop? Can't imagine LJ being effective.. Does anyone have a strategy here? RBush is my #2 RB right now... Blount my RB3, is looking very suspect. WW pickings are slim, but I do have Thomas available.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Indeed
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
Oof.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Evidently it will.
Uh, not really.
First, it's voila, not wa la. And second, looks like they want him to be about a 7 touch back which is, in fact, the best way to use the guy.
And finally, you got one right...
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Obsessed. 
TheFanatic
Footballguy
That's your only comment? You take a shot at the poster and don't even acknowledge blowing every single prediction you made in here? I'm sure you'll address those predictions if Reggie has a monster week next week, right? Just like I'm sure you were just waiting for the guy to go off so you could come in here and bump my predictions.Obsessed.
wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
I'm willing to admit I was wrongThat's your only comment? You take a shot at the poster and don't even acknowledge blowing every single prediction you made in here? I'm sure you'll address those predictions if Reggie has a monster week next week, right? Just like I'm sure you were just waiting for the guy to go off so you could come in here and bump my predictions.Obsessed.
