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Ren's old crypto thread || we know how to buy this stuff now (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter ren hoek
- Start date
Rhythmdoctor
Footballguy
Just saw this thread. Great topic! I have 10.3xxxxx coins at an average price (including transaction costs through Coinable) of $321. Wish I bought that dip. I was planning on it and sort of stop paying attention. Ether way (<<<see what I did there?), this is a long-term hold for me, so not too concerned with it. What I think is interesting is that since the dip this summer, ETH has been sitting at $300 despite BTC's soaring highs. I think ETH will have its day but may take some years. I remember when BTC was trading at pennies and at that time I so wanted to invest $1k but I simply wasn't in the position to do it and I've been kicking myself ever since. I just want a piece of crypto and what I like about ETH is that some of the big banks and other big corporations are investing in it. I'm a long-term hold. If it dips under $200 again, I'll be heavily buying.
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ren hoek
Footballguy
I think of it as a new asset class. It is liable to be attacked by governments and prone to wild fluctuation but I believe in it long term. Part of it is in higher-risk properties like BAT and Chainlink, but about 70% of it is split between BCH/ETH, the #3/#2 highest marketcaps in crypto. Both have strong fundamentals and massive institutional backing. But I get it isn't for everyone
ren hoek
Footballguy
These numbers are a bit out of date, but this is a good run down on different market capitalizations.
https://imgur.com/a/1VM6U
https://imgur.com/a/1VM6U
Dan Lambskin
Footballguy
Wow. Big jump. I remember posting when it was $20 that I should buy some. I never did
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
ren hoek
Footballguy
Well, I finally did the unthinkable. I swapped over half my holdings in BCH and ETH to gold/silver. I'm afraid bitcoin is ridiculously overbought at this point and is due for a massive correction. Generally whenever it falls it takes the whole crypto market with it. I'll get back in during the next crash. Needed some diversification badly
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
do you have any thoughts on what the theoretical high would be? What are you imagining for the crash?
Otis
Footballguy
Mad at myself for getting out a few weeks ago, but I would definitely be getting out now if I were still in. Well played.
ren hoek
Footballguy
In the short term there will definitely be massive resistance at 10k. The thing about bitcoin is that it was supposed to be an international currency to bank "the unbanked," there was a lot of idealism and conviction there. Blockstream/core have essentially crippled any chance at bitcoin scaling up for massive adoption, so now they're calling it "digital gold" and treating it like a store of value. Well if there's no real utility for it anymore as the blockchain currency (absurd fees, slow confirmation times) it's really just a speculative instrument with no reason to exist anymore. There's a lot of dumb money flying into Bitcoin. It will vanish as quickly as it came. The only thing propping it up beyond 3/4K (imo) is dumb peoples' feelings. Bitcoin just feels like a ponzi scheme at this point, almost like it's being manipulated into a huge short. Between the Tether/BitFinex thing and this chart everything just feels wrong.
Things are bullish right now so it's unthinkable that the market could collapse. It's the hardest time to let go. There's a good saying about being fearful when people are greedy and greedy when there's blood in the streets. During the last major crash bitcoin forums had suicide hotlines stickied to the top. I can only speak for myself but my portfolio went from about 15-32k in the past month. Enough is enough. My problem is I'm so emotional about it that it feels like I'm selling my children away. But I don't want to be around when things collapse
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RUSF18
Footballguy
NotSmart
Footballguy
That's the same question I thought of.
I do commend ren for getting out at a logical time, and I'm happy for his gain.
ren hoek
Footballguy
I thought it was a ponzi scheme then too. It isn't really a functioning currency on the scale it was meant to be anymore. The utility of the coin itself and direction of the people who code for it is so out of line with the original bitcoin that it has no practical reason for even existing. At times there are well over 100,000 transactions just sitting there in the mempool waiting to be confirmed, if they confirm at all. The fees price the poor out of using it anymore. Without the fundamental, original usecase of it being a decentralized, accessible currency, there is nothing other than price speculation to back it up.
I resent what Blockstream/Core have done with it. They've stalled development and scaling for years so that they could move transactions off-chain to second layer programs, which they have a patent on. https://i.imgur.com/bBZARNO.jpg
To me it's like paying 9 or 10k to own an NES when you could pay 1500 or so to own a nice PC. When I sent 4.35 Bitcoin Cash to my Uphold account it confirmed in seconds, not days. There are easily 20 or so coins I would comfortably invest in before even thinking about putting money in Bitcoin at all-time high. Smart money is going into BCH, ETH, and alts. Smarter money is waiting on this bubble to burst. Dumb normie money is going into bitcoin.
RUSF18
Footballguy
So why were you giving people #### for telling you it would be wise to get your profits out at a time you thought you were actively invested in a ponzi scheme?
Or were you just trolling?
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Thanks. Actually was wondering about the potential high and low for ETH. I have such a small position, that it will likely make sense for me just to ride it out and hope for the homerun. but i might think about just selling a bit and grabbing a few bucks while I can, with a plan to buy more in a crash (which is a price I would prefer anyway).
ren hoek
Footballguy
I wasn't invested in it at all. I haven't been since the fork. I think I've been pretty consistent on bitcoin specifically being overbought, while alts are underbought. I've also been consistent about bitcoin having very little in the way of utility or fundamentals to warrant its insane price. Obviously the market disagrees with me and people have reaped astronomical rewards for staying put so I'm not sure what point you think you're making here.
I gave people #### about it because it was horrible advice. Cashing out after China crashed the markets was obviously a terrible idea in retrospect and would have cost us a lot of money. That's when you all come out of the woodwork the hardest. People were on here unironically telling others with sanctimony to sell at the very bottom.
RUSF18
Footballguy
First of all, it obviously wasn't "the very bottom" two months ago unless you're giving absolutely no credit for the entire run-up. And the point is that it is all paper gains until you sell, and the post-China crash proved that it wasn't an actual market and is closer to what you yourself described as a ponzi scheme.
Do you not understand why the above you wrote doesn't quite reconcile to also saying "smart money is to wait for this bubble to burst"?
ren hoek
Footballguy
How many times can China shut down exchanges before no one cares anymore? That crypto markets survived that and blew up afterward is a sign of resiliency, not weakness. I absolutely believe we're looking at the future here, and it isn't btc. There will be tremendous growth and adoption over the years. I just think it's too much too fast.
The only thing that's a ponzi scheme is the notion that money will keep flying into bitcoin because everyone that holds bitcoin will become rich. That isn't the usecase that made it what it is. Not even close.
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
It seems to me that many small investors are viewing crypto the wrong way. To us it isn't about whether or not it is a viable currency, be that through open markets or institutional use of blockchains.
I view it as the new gold. Somewhere to stash money. You never had the gold you bought in your hands. Nor will you ever have the crypto in your hands. Nor, like gold, will you ever understand why it goes up or down. I'm sure institutional investors are playing games with short term gains and manipulation of an unregulated market. That will eventually be regulated better. So I may make a bunch in the short run, which is great thus far. But long term, I'm just looking for another diversification method.
I view it as the new gold. Somewhere to stash money. You never had the gold you bought in your hands. Nor will you ever have the crypto in your hands. Nor, like gold, will you ever understand why it goes up or down. I'm sure institutional investors are playing games with short term gains and manipulation of an unregulated market. That will eventually be regulated better. So I may make a bunch in the short run, which is great thus far. But long term, I'm just looking for another diversification method.
Foosball God
Foos
I think Ethereum is the play as well, but agree with Ren that it makes sense to wait for the next crash. And it will crash. It is just a very volatile space right now with a lot of people investing in something they really have no concept of what it is.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
BTC just hit 10k on coinbase. Hoo boy.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
And LTC just hit $100. Psychological barriers are breaking.
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chet
Footballguy
I own some ETH and some BTC and have had $ and many BTC stolen in the Mt Gox debacle. I haven't put anymore $ in several years.
Here's the thing. BTC isn't really a currency--according to MMT, currencies derive demand through the need to pay tax and obviously there's no tax in BTC. At any rate, I'm not here to debate economic theory and I am glad that so many people are excited with the recent explosion in value. However, people keep referring to how much BTC et al are worth in USD and not what they can purchase or how long they can live on BTC. To me, that is the main reason BTC isn't a currency but more like a new investment albeit very volatile. Maybe in the future that will change.
Here's the thing. BTC isn't really a currency--according to MMT, currencies derive demand through the need to pay tax and obviously there's no tax in BTC. At any rate, I'm not here to debate economic theory and I am glad that so many people are excited with the recent explosion in value. However, people keep referring to how much BTC et al are worth in USD and not what they can purchase or how long they can live on BTC. To me, that is the main reason BTC isn't a currency but more like a new investment albeit very volatile. Maybe in the future that will change.
Peyton Marino
Footballguy
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
No, currency is whatever two parties deem to have value and utilize as a easy to use mediator of trades and goods exchanging hand.
We base all of our currency on gold. And we can also utilize silver and other such commodities.
BTC is a digital gold that parties accept as having trade value. If you dont want to accept BTC (or gold) that up to you. Ethereum and such are like silver and copper.
Currencies aren't based on gold and haven't been for a long time. Chet is referring to Modern Monetary Theory , a theory which derives many of its insights/predictions from laying out how fiat currencies actually work in fractional reserve systems.
CR69
Footballguy
ren hoek
Footballguy
It's backed by the best browser in existence and presents a very good value proposition to publishers on the internet. Well, it is in terms of privacy and speed anyway. It's a chromium build, so the extensions aren't there yet but they will be. If you look at the complaints about youtube demonetizing videos and advertisers withdrawing because they can't get their ad algorithms right, it's just begging for a new economic model for the digital ad industry. Unlike most of the other icos it has an actual working product already, and they really haven't even started marketing for it yet.
Brave stands to upend everything wrong with Google, intrusive ads/trackers and the lack of internet privacy. The dev team is really taking their time with it and has a very solid road map. The network effect once publishers on youtube, Wikipedia, really the entire digital content industry find out about a direct means for users to reward publishers for content could change everything. If Brave were to get only a few percent of the digital ad industry, it would break a billion dollar marketcap easily. Brendan Eich is the Brave CEO, creator of JavaScript and one of the original founders of Mozilla project. The BAT ico sold out $35 million in 30 seconds. Heck, we can finally reward @Joe Bryant for letting us ####post on his board all day. The possibilities are absolutely endless.
I think it's an easy x5 within a couple years and possible x10 within 5 years. It's also a great ecosystem for users, publishers and advertisers too. Advertisers will purchase BATs to broadcast ads to users. Here's some Brave hype links:
BAT helping angry youtubers monetize their content
$BAT & Brave in the Sunday Times business section
Computer World article
Partnership with DuckDuckGo search engine
Coinbase support in q1 2018?
Foosball God
Foos
Rhythmdoctor
Footballguy
Can’t wait for ETH to catch up with BTC. This crypto market is insane right now
ren hoek
Footballguy
None of BTC actions make any sense. It was $5000 this month. You can't predict anything. Literally all it has is first mover advantage and name recognition. It was supposed to be a functional, scaling medium of exchange to free people from central banks. Not a speculative hodl meme instrument. Without a practical usecase as a currency there isn't any thing really backing it. Wile E Coyote never falls off the cliff until he looks down.
If you ever think the market is overvalued at any point, you'll never think it makes sense to get in after that point. I'd rather go broke investing in things that make sense than gamble on the behavior of normies who don't know the difference between a blockchain and a hole in the ground.
BCH stands to continue where BTC left off. Not just as a decentralized unit of account with an open ledger, but as a low-cost, accessible currency of the future. Many of the old school bitcoin evangelists have since left to support bitcoin cash. The hashrate oscillation for BTC/BCH (or mining profitability in other words) will always be there, barring some outlandish scenario where the btc/bch pairing remains this top-heavy. Without getting too ideological here it will provide real economic utility to the world where btc stopped a long time ago.
Charlie Harper
Footballguy
I've been vocal about my doubt in bitcoin long-term and your constant pimping so it's funny that you're pulling out before me. Then again you've made 15k and I've only doubled my initial 1.2k invested.
Just wondering why pull out when it still hasn't achieved ETF? I was waiting until that happened then riding that tide before I jump off.
Just wondering why pull out when it still hasn't achieved ETF? I was waiting until that happened then riding that tide before I jump off.
ren hoek
Footballguy
Well pimping implies that I'm selling snake oil or something. I actually believe in this stuff. Just not bitcoin. I've only pulled about 37%, so it's not like I don't have a stake in it right now.
I don't believe in bitcoin anymore and think this level of growth this fast is manipulated and unnatural. For many reasons (tether counterfeiting, huge bull market in stocks and crypto with no real correction, blockstream stripping bitcoin of utility and hijacking it for personal profit, student loan bubble) I think a huge bubble will be bursting soon. The stuff about an ETF and CME futures is priced in I think (although the 2018 Nasdaq listing news may not be).
I just have this feeling we're on the verge of a major crash. It's rare in this space that things go this well for this long.
I don't believe in bitcoin anymore and think this level of growth this fast is manipulated and unnatural. For many reasons (tether counterfeiting, huge bull market in stocks and crypto with no real correction, blockstream stripping bitcoin of utility and hijacking it for personal profit, student loan bubble) I think a huge bubble will be bursting soon. The stuff about an ETF and CME futures is priced in I think (although the 2018 Nasdaq listing news may not be).
I just have this feeling we're on the verge of a major crash. It's rare in this space that things go this well for this long.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
I know what we do now. But it was based off of gold originally (and securities now) because people agree* they hold/have value.
And BTC was invented to upset that apple cart in some ways. Including taxation.
*actually I guess people just accept the security part with no recourse?
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ren hoek
Footballguy
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQEcJXjpC64&t=30m49s&feature=youtu.be
Some bitcoin show had a Venezuelan guest on. People there are transacting with bch over btc.
Some bitcoin show had a Venezuelan guest on. People there are transacting with bch over btc.
ren hoek
Footballguy
https://imgur.com/a/dwrvW
https://twitter.com/mrchrisellis/status/936686197593853952
I'm about 50% out. Save for some bch, 'pennystock' ####coins (bat, link, odn, safex) and a single ether I've basically swapped everything to gold/silver. If bch hits 2k again I plan to get out there too.
There's a couple choices I've been agonizing over this weekend. One is to forego the possibility of eth exploding next year, which I absolutely believe will happen, but not before a massive correction to cryptomarkets and the tether scam. If I miss out on some of this outlandish bullrun it's gonna hurt. But not as much as knowing I could have gotten out when it sure appeared to make a lot of sense.
I'm at a point now where I'm pretty comfortable solidifying my gains and starting over again. It's been a great year
https://twitter.com/mrchrisellis/status/936686197593853952
I'm about 50% out. Save for some bch, 'pennystock' ####coins (bat, link, odn, safex) and a single ether I've basically swapped everything to gold/silver. If bch hits 2k again I plan to get out there too.
There's a couple choices I've been agonizing over this weekend. One is to forego the possibility of eth exploding next year, which I absolutely believe will happen, but not before a massive correction to cryptomarkets and the tether scam. If I miss out on some of this outlandish bullrun it's gonna hurt. But not as much as knowing I could have gotten out when it sure appeared to make a lot of sense.
I'm at a point now where I'm pretty comfortable solidifying my gains and starting over again. It's been a great year
That's how I feel 100%. The only article I saw on ETH was how the 2nd most amount of ETH spent was spent on Crypto Kitties. Yes, the second most amount spend on online kittens. The most amount spent was trading ETH. Something like 20% of what the coin was spent on trading and online kittens.
I posted about it in the Bitcoin thread and said that this reminds me of the the dotcom bubble where there were dozens of search engines and how investors would talk about eyeballs because there was no profit so they had to make up things to justify the valuations. Well, the only search engine really left is Google and they weren't even around in the initial search engine bubble. Every discussion I see on these crypto currencies have nothing to do with the technology and how that could up end the financial systems, it is all about the coins and how people talk about it as an investment and try to compare them to companies that actually have profits and revenues. It's amazing because I remember the same "justifications" before.
Don't get me wrong, I'm pissed that I followed bitcoin and didn't get in on it because there was a lot of money made in the dotcom bubble before a whole lot was lost. At these prices, I am certainly not buying in because I just don't believe that Bitcoin will have a valuation in the trillions. That's obscene. There is nothing backing them. I think the technology is very interesting and I think that is what will last, not the coins that are around now.
ren hoek
Footballguy
Everything's going to fall bigly when people try to cash out of the tether scam and the regulators come. These things seem to coincide with each other, like Dimon slandering bitcoin right on the heels of the China ico ban. I really think it's being manipulated by the financial sector and monied interests that want to destroy confidence in bitcoin, wring out the dumb money and then buy more of it for themselves.
https://gyazo.com/c49d1dc423bce0eb745aae40f18ee9c9
Just looking at the history, if you'd sold every time it settled into a 'new paradigm,' and rebought after the inevitable corrections, you'd be rich and have an incredibly strong position. The market seems to think it's invincible right now and I think people are gonna lose their pants on this thing before it returns to normalcy. I'm not really looking to buy again until there's a massive correction at least, if not outright despair.
LAUNCH
Footballguy
https://www.coindesk.com/venezuelan-president-announces-petro-oil-backed-cryptocurrency/
"Venezuela will create a...cryptocurrency to advance monetary sovereignty, as it will help to overcome the financial blockade and thus move towards new forms of international financing for the economic and social development of the country."
"Venezuela will create a...cryptocurrency to advance monetary sovereignty, as it will help to overcome the financial blockade and thus move towards new forms of international financing for the economic and social development of the country."
CryptoNinja
Footballguy
