Reporter and cameraman killed during live report in Virginia (1 Viewer)

[culdeus]

why can't we have a registered nutcase system for people that needed even the most minor psych meds and keep them from owning firearms?

Two reasons:

First, a medical provider would be violating the HIPAA Privacy Rule if they disclosed that information, but did not believe the person posed a serious or imminent threat to public safety. That HIPAA rule could be amended, though.

Second, many people believe that your proposal would have the opposite effect on public safety, Namely, people that need psychiatric help will be less likely to seek treatment if they know they'll lose rights or that information will go public. In that way you'd have more untreated psychotic people walking the streets who may pose a threat to themselves or others.

Ok, so let's just do nothing. because without some sort of reporting of nutjobs these guys will continue to get guns.

Out of curiosity, do you believe the police should be allowed to profile and take actions against whole groups based on those profiles?

I have no idea why this is relevant to how mental patients get guns.

 

[Otis]

why can't we have a registered nutcase system for people that needed even the most minor psych meds and keep them from owning firearms?

Two reasons:

First, a medical provider would be violating the HIPAA Privacy Rule if they disclosed that information, but did not believe the person posed a serious or imminent threat to public safety. That HIPAA rule could be amended, though.

Second, many people believe that your proposal would have the opposite effect on public safety, Namely, people that need psychiatric help will be less likely to seek treatment if they know they'll lose rights or that information will go public. In that way you'd have more untreated psychotic people walking the streets who may pose a threat to themselves or others.

This may be the most balanced and well reasoned post I've ever read here. Imagine if we all posted this way.

 

[msommer]

why can't we have a registered nutcase system for people that needed even the most minor psych meds and keep them from owning firearms?

Two reasons:

First, a medical provider would be violating the HIPAA Privacy Rule if they disclosed that information, but did not believe the person posed a serious or imminent threat to public safety. That HIPAA rule could be amended, though.

Second, many people believe that your proposal would have the opposite effect on public safety, Namely, people that need psychiatric help will be less likely to seek treatment if they know they'll lose rights or that information will go public. In that way you'd have more untreated psychotic people walking the streets who may pose a threat to themselves or others.

Ok, so let's just do nothing. because without some sort of reporting of nutjobs these guys will continue to get guns.

As an alternative to doing nothing, do something about the bolded

 

[Ratbert]

why can't we have a registered nutcase system for people that needed even the most minor psych meds and keep them from owning firearms?

Two reasons:

First, a medical provider would be violating the HIPAA Privacy Rule if they disclosed that information, but did not believe the person posed a serious or imminent threat to public safety. That HIPAA rule could be amended, though.

Second, many people believe that your proposal would have the opposite effect on public safety, Namely, people that need psychiatric help will be less likely to seek treatment if they know they'll lose rights or that information will go public. In that way you'd have more untreated psychotic people walking the streets who may pose a threat to themselves or others.

Ok, so let's just do nothing. because without some sort of reporting of nutjobs these guys will continue to get guns.

As an alternative to doing nothing, do something about the bolded

Because it's better to penalize everyone for the actions of a few.

 

[msommer]

why can't we have a registered nutcase system for people that needed even the most minor psych meds and keep them from owning firearms?

Two reasons:

First, a medical provider would be violating the HIPAA Privacy Rule if they disclosed that information, but did not believe the person posed a serious or imminent threat to public safety. That HIPAA rule could be amended, though.

Second, many people believe that your proposal would have the opposite effect on public safety, Namely, people that need psychiatric help will be less likely to seek treatment if they know they'll lose rights or that information will go public. In that way you'd have more untreated psychotic people walking the streets who may pose a threat to themselves or others.

Ok, so let's just do nothing. because without some sort of reporting of nutjobs these guys will continue to get guns.

As an alternative to doing nothing, do something about the bolded

Because it's better to penalize everyone for the actions of a few.

Please explain the penalization in not having a gun, The rest of the world would like to know

 

[Ratbert]

why can't we have a registered nutcase system for people that needed even the most minor psych meds and keep them from owning firearms?

Two reasons:

First, a medical provider would be violating the HIPAA Privacy Rule if they disclosed that information, but did not believe the person posed a serious or imminent threat to public safety. That HIPAA rule could be amended, though.

Second, many people believe that your proposal would have the opposite effect on public safety, Namely, people that need psychiatric help will be less likely to seek treatment if they know they'll lose rights or that information will go public. In that way you'd have more untreated psychotic people walking the streets who may pose a threat to themselves or others.

Ok, so let's just do nothing. because without some sort of reporting of nutjobs these guys will continue to get guns.

As an alternative to doing nothing, do something about the bolded

Because it's better to penalize everyone for the actions of a few.

Please explain the penalization in not having a gun, The rest of the world would like to know

I certainly don't claim to speak for the world as you clearly do, but as a responsible gun owner, I would not be happy about giving up ANY of my rights. If you need further explanation, I'll be happy to discuss it with you if you can be civil about it.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

why can't we have a registered nutcase system for people that needed even the most minor psych meds and keep them from owning firearms?

Two reasons:

First, a medical provider would be violating the HIPAA Privacy Rule if they disclosed that information, but did not believe the person posed a serious or imminent threat to public safety. That HIPAA rule could be amended, though.

Second, many people believe that your proposal would have the opposite effect on public safety, Namely, people that need psychiatric help will be less likely to seek treatment if they know they'll lose rights or that information will go public. In that way you'd have more untreated psychotic people walking the streets who may pose a threat to themselves or others.

Ok, so let's just do nothing. because without some sort of reporting of nutjobs these guys will continue to get guns.

As an alternative to doing nothing, do something about the bolded

Because it's better to penalize everyone for the actions of a few.

Please explain the penalization in not having a gun, The rest of the world would like to know

I certainly don't claim to speak for the world as you clearly do, but as a responsible gun owner, I would not be happy about giving up ANY of my rights. If you need further explanation, I'll be happy to discuss it with you if you can be civil about it.

LOL he's been civil with you.

 

[msommer]

Therefore THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY proclaims THIS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their jurisdiction.

^ Top​

Article 1.

• All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

^ Top​

Article 2.

• Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

^ Top​

Article 3.

• Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

^ Top​

Article 4.

• No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.

^ Top​

Article 5.

• No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

^ Top​

Article 6.

• Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.

^ Top​

Article 7.

• All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

^ Top​

Article 8.

• Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.

^ Top​

Article 9.

• No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.

^ Top​

Article 10.

• Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.

^ Top​

Article 11.

• (1) Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.
• (2) No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.

^ Top​

Article 12.

• No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

^ Top​

Article 13.

• (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
• (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

^ Top​

Article 14.

• (1) Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.
• (2) This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

^ Top​

Article 15.

• (1) Everyone has the right to a nationality.
• (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.

^ Top​

Article 16.

• (1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
• (2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
• (3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.

^ Top​

Article 17.

• (1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
• (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.

^ Top​

Article 18.

• Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

^ Top​

Article 19.

• Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

^ Top​

Article 20.

• (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.
• (2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

^ Top​

Article 21.

• (1) Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.
• (2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.
• (3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.

^ Top​

Article 22.

• Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.

^ Top​

Article 23.

• (1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
• (2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.
• (3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.
• (4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

^ Top​

Article 24.

• Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.

^ Top​

Article 25.

• (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
• (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

^ Top​

Article 26.

• (1) Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.
• (2) Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.
• (3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.

^ Top​

Article 27.

• (1) Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.
• (2) Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.

^ Top​

Article 28.

• Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized.

^ Top​

Article 29.

• (1) Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.
• (2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.
• (3) These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

^ Top​

Article 30.

• Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.

 

[beer 30]

I certainly don't claim to speak for the world as you clearly do, but as a responsible gun owner, I would not be happy about giving up ANY of my rights. If you need further explanation, I'll be happy to discuss it with you if you can be civil about it.

You don't come to the FFA much do you?

 

[wazoo11]

Unstable people use ideology as pretext/excuse for their behavior all the time. Religion, race, politics etc. Often these unstable people blame an external issue or trigger for their behavior but usually upon further examination one can't really explain their actions solely on their stated rationale.

But there are ideological groups that can turn otherwise somewhat stable people into extremists (KKK, ISIS, WBC) through brainwashing or segregation or fear. When members or associates of these groups commit crimes I feel it's entirely appropriate to place considerable blame on the group or subculture.

IMO this shooting isn't really a racially motivated crime (IOW I put this into the former framework above). He was easily offended, quick to anger (he confronted a driver a few weeks ago and had multiple angry outbursts at other places of employment). Simply he was a nut job who rationalized his hate through racial scapegoating.

Did he even bother to try therapy treatment for his anger issues?

 

[Lester Burnham]

Unstable people use ideology as pretext/excuse for their behavior all the time. Religion, race, politics etc. Often these unstable people blame an external issue or trigger for their behavior but usually upon further examination one can't really explain their actions solely on their stated rationale.

But there are ideological groups that can turn otherwise somewhat stable people into extremists (KKK, ISIS, WBC) through brainwashing or segregation or fear. When members or associates of these groups commit crimes I feel it's entirely appropriate to place considerable blame on the group or subculture.

IMO this shooting isn't really a racially motivated crime (IOW I put this into the former framework above). He was easily offended, quick to anger (he confronted a driver a few weeks ago and had multiple angry outbursts at other places of employment). Simply he was a nut job who rationalized his hate through racial scapegoating.

Did he even bother to try therapy treatment for his anger issues?

I'll go out on a limb here and speculate that he didn't think he HAD anger issues. It was everyone else who had the issues.

 

[Ratbert]

Therefore THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY proclaims THIS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their jurisdiction.

^ Top​

Article 1.

• All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

^ Top​

Article 2.

• Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

^ Top​

Article 3.

• Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

^ Top​

Article 4.

• No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.

^ Top​

Article 5.

• No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

^ Top​

Article 6.

• Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.

^ Top​

Article 7.

• All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

^ Top​

Article 8.

• Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.

^ Top​

Article 9.

• No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.

^ Top​

Article 10.

• Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.

^ Top​

Article 11.

• (1) Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.
• (2) No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.

^ Top​

Article 12.

• No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

^ Top​

Article 13.

• (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
• (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

^ Top​

Article 14.

• (1) Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.
• (2) This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

^ Top​

Article 15.

• (1) Everyone has the right to a nationality.
• (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.

^ Top​

Article 16.

• (1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
• (2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
• (3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.

^ Top​

Article 17.

• (1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
• (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.

^ Top​

Article 18.

• Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

^ Top​

Article 19.

• Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

^ Top​

Article 20.

• (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.
• (2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

^ Top​

Article 21.

• (1) Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.
• (2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.
• (3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.

^ Top​

Article 22.

• Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.

^ Top​

Article 23.

• (1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
• (2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.
• (3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.
• (4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

^ Top​

Article 24.

• Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.

^ Top​

Article 25.

• (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
• (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

^ Top​

Article 26.

• (1) Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.
• (2) Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.
• (3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.

^ Top​

Article 27.

• (1) Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.
• (2) Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.

^ Top​

Article 28.

• Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized.

^ Top​

Article 29.

• (1) Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.
• (2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.
• (3) These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

^ Top​

Article 30.

• Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.

A well regulated militia, being the best security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

 

[msommer]

A well regulated militia, being the best security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

So, which militia are you a member of and how is it regulated (and by whom)?

 

[Ratbert]

A well regulated militia, being the best security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

So, which militia are you a member of and how is it regulated (and by whom)?

They struck the definition of militia from the amendment before it passed. I wasn't there so I can't say why. The bottom line is until A) SCOTUS rules otherwise, or B) an amendment passes that repeals 2A, non-felon US citizens of sound mind (per BATFE regulations) have the right to own firearms.

 

[matuski]

A well regulated militia, being the best security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

So, which militia are you a member of and how is it regulated (and by whom)?

They struck the definition of militia from the amendment before it passed. I wasn't there so I can't say why. The bottom line is until A) SCOTUS rules otherwise, or B) an amendment passes that repeals 2A, non-felon US citizens of sound mind (per BATFE regulations) have the right to own firearms.

When and where do you feel common sense should come into play here?

 

[msommer]

A well regulated militia, being the best security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

So, which militia are you a member of and how is it regulated (and by whom)?

They struck the definition of militia from the amendment before it passed. I wasn't there so I can't say why. The bottom line is until A) SCOTUS rules otherwise, or B) an amendment passes that repeals 2A, non-felon US citizens of sound mind (per BATFE regulations) have the right to own firearms.

When and where do you feel common sense should come into play here?

Doesn't seem to be included in the sentence quoted. And probably would be deemed a penalization

 

[Ratbert]

A well regulated militia, being the best security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

So, which militia are you a member of and how is it regulated (and by whom)?

They struck the definition of militia from the amendment before it passed. I wasn't there so I can't say why. The bottom line is until A) SCOTUS rules otherwise, or B) an amendment passes that repeals 2A, non-felon US citizens of sound mind (per BATFE regulations) have the right to own firearms.

When and where do you feel common sense should come into play here?

When enough people can agree on a solution, the laws will change. Given the current political climate, that means change in firearms laws are highly unlikely in the next 20 years.

We have a sad history of taking away the rights of citizens (from internment camps during WWII all the way up to the Patriot Act) to calm the masses. I sure don't have the answers, but doing something for the sake of doing something rarely accomplishes anything.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

How much more gun violence would it take for the US to make a major change? I think the problem is that most gun owners don't see gun violence as a gun problem, but rather a lone individual who was not a responsible gun owner. So, to gun owners it is never going to be a gun problem.

 

[Chemical X]

people stand behind the 2nd amendment without even understanding it And its context.

this was about racism not a militia protecting its citizens.

 

[BowieMercs]

people stand behind the 2nd amendment without even understanding it And its context.

this was about racism not a militia protecting its citizens.

Something obviously needs to be done. I don't think banning guns would be any more effective than building a wall to keep illegal immigrants out. We didn't get to this point overnight, it's unrealistic to think it can be fixed overnight especially with the contentious political climate that exists today.

 

[spreagle]

How much more gun violence would it take for the US to make a major change? I think the problem is that most gun owners don't see gun violence as a gun problem, but rather a lone individual who was not a responsible gun owner. So, to gun owners it is never going to be a gun problem.

John Adams said "Our constitution was made for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other".

I think the reason why gun owners don't see gun violence as a gun problem is that huge segments of society have become immoral and the 2nd amendment of the constitution, as written, is now inadequate for these people. But so what? The 2nd amendment is still more than adequate (and many will say needed more than ever given the large groups of immoral people) for the remaining moral and religious people. True insanity (mental illness if you will) is changing or reinterpreting the constitution to accomodate immoral groups of people, at the expense of moral and religious people. The constitution becomes a total sham if that happens. The goal should be somehow getting immoral people back on the rails. I see gun violence as a symptom of a much larger problem that wont be fixed with more gun control laws. And I still dont understand where they found gay marriage and abortion in the constitution.

 

[TheIronSheik]

:shrugs:I still like TIS.

Your personal attacks here... Not so much.

Yeah, that was dumb. Sorry everybody.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. The guy comes at me all the time with insults and personal attacks. I've reached out a couple times to bury the hatchet and gotten more insults in return. Like you I remember enjoying the guy's posts until recently so it's not just you. Hope he's OK.

As I explained in the PM, you can't be a richard and then get upset when I say something back to you. You take shot after shot and then when I call you out on it, you send me a PM saying "Hey, what's the deal? How about we just call a truce and be cool?"

You love to dish it out, but you get butt hurt if someone says something back. This post right here is a perfect example. Keep crying about me "hitting you back."

 

[TobiasFunke]

:shrugs:I still like TIS.

Your personal attacks here... Not so much.

Yeah, that was dumb. Sorry everybody.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. The guy comes at me all the time with insults and personal attacks. I've reached out a couple times to bury the hatchet and gotten more insults in return. Like you I remember enjoying the guy's posts until recently so it's not just you. Hope he's OK.

As I explained in the PM, you can't be a richard and then get upset when I say something back to you. You take shot after shot and then when I call you out on it, you send me a PM saying "Hey, what's the deal? How about we just call a truce and be cool?"

You love to dish it out, but you get butt hurt if someone says something back. This post right here is a perfect example. Keep crying about me "hitting you back."

I deleted that post pretty much immediately after posting it. Not sure what mechanism you used to reproduce it three days later, but I apologize for it nevertheless. Have a great week.

 

[TheIronSheik]

:shrugs:I still like TIS.

Your personal attacks here... Not so much.

Yeah, that was dumb. Sorry everybody.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. The guy comes at me all the time with insults and personal attacks. I've reached out a couple times to bury the hatchet and gotten more insults in return. Like you I remember enjoying the guy's posts until recently so it's not just you. Hope he's OK.

As I explained in the PM, you can't be a richard and then get upset when I say something back to you. You take shot after shot and then when I call you out on it, you send me a PM saying "Hey, what's the deal? How about we just call a truce and be cool?"

You love to dish it out, but you get butt hurt if someone says something back. This post right here is a perfect example. Keep crying about me "hitting you back."

I deleted that post pretty much immediately after posting it. Not sure what mechanism you used to reproduce it three days later, but I apologize for it nevertheless. Have a great week.

Yes. You deleted it after you were called out on it. It's the fact you wrote it at all. As I said in the PM, I don't come looking for you. If you are a richard to me, whether it be directly or indirectly, I will say something back.

 

[BowieMercs]

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

 

[TobiasFunke]

:shrugs:I still like TIS.

Your personal attacks here... Not so much.

Yeah, that was dumb. Sorry everybody.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. The guy comes at me all the time with insults and personal attacks. I've reached out a couple times to bury the hatchet and gotten more insults in return. Like you I remember enjoying the guy's posts until recently so it's not just you. Hope he's OK.

As I explained in the PM, you can't be a richard and then get upset when I say something back to you. You take shot after shot and then when I call you out on it, you send me a PM saying "Hey, what's the deal? How about we just call a truce and be cool?"

You love to dish it out, but you get butt hurt if someone says something back. This post right here is a perfect example. Keep crying about me "hitting you back."

I deleted that post pretty much immediately after posting it. Not sure what mechanism you used to reproduce it three days later, but I apologize for it nevertheless. Have a great week.

Yes. You deleted it after you were called out on it. It's the fact you wrote it at all. As I said in the PM, I don't come looking for you. If you are a richard to me, whether it be directly or indirectly, I will say something back.

No, I deleted it pretty quickly, it was gone by the time whoever that was finished their reply. He just captured it by starting his response immediately I guess.

I try never insult you (or anyone here) personally, I only criticize the content of posts. I think those are two very different things. I guess you don't see it that way, which is fine- I'll be sure not to direct either in your direction in the future. Again, my apologies for the quickly deleted post last Friday.

 

[Stinger Ray]

:shrugs:

I still like TIS.

Your personal attacks here... Not so much.

Yeah, that was dumb. Sorry everybody.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. The guy comes at me all the time with insults and personal attacks. I've reached out a couple times to bury the hatchet and gotten more insults in return. Like you I remember enjoying the guy's posts until recently so it's not just you. Hope he's OK.

As I explained in the PM, you can't be a richard and then get upset when I say something back to you. You take shot after shot and then when I call you out on it, you send me a PM saying "Hey, what's the deal? How about we just call a truce and be cool?"

You love to dish it out, but you get butt hurt if someone says something back. This post right here is a perfect example. Keep crying about me "hitting you back."

I deleted that post pretty much immediately after posting it. Not sure what mechanism you used to reproduce it three days later, but I apologize for it nevertheless. Have a great week.

Yes. You deleted it after you were called out on it. It's the fact you wrote it at all. As I said in the PM, I don't come looking for you. If you are a richard to me, whether it be directly or indirectly, I will say something back.

No, I deleted it pretty quickly, it was gone by the time whoever that was finished their reply. He just captured it by starting his response immediately I guess.

I try never insult you (or anyone here) personally, I only criticize the content of posts. I think those are two very different things. I guess you don't see it that way, which is fine- I'll be sure not to direct either in your direction in the future. Again, my apologies for the quickly deleted post last Friday.

You come across as a condescending ### often with comments you post.

 

[TobiasFunke]

:shrugs:

I still like TIS.

Your personal attacks here... Not so much.

Yeah, that was dumb. Sorry everybody.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. The guy comes at me all the time with insults and personal attacks. I've reached out a couple times to bury the hatchet and gotten more insults in return. Like you I remember enjoying the guy's posts until recently so it's not just you. Hope he's OK.

As I explained in the PM, you can't be a richard and then get upset when I say something back to you. You take shot after shot and then when I call you out on it, you send me a PM saying "Hey, what's the deal? How about we just call a truce and be cool?"

You love to dish it out, but you get butt hurt if someone says something back. This post right here is a perfect example. Keep crying about me "hitting you back."

I deleted that post pretty much immediately after posting it. Not sure what mechanism you used to reproduce it three days later, but I apologize for it nevertheless. Have a great week.

Yes. You deleted it after you were called out on it. It's the fact you wrote it at all. As I said in the PM, I don't come looking for you. If you are a richard to me, whether it be directly or indirectly, I will say something back.

No, I deleted it pretty quickly, it was gone by the time whoever that was finished their reply. He just captured it by starting his response immediately I guess.

I try never insult you (or anyone here) personally, I only criticize the content of posts. I think those are two very different things. I guess you don't see it that way, which is fine- I'll be sure not to direct either in your direction in the future. Again, my apologies for the quickly deleted post last Friday.

You come across as a condescending ### often with comments you post.

Sorry you feel that way. Like I said I challenge and criticize posts, not posters. I like and respect pretty much everyone I come across around here. If you don't see it that way this message board has a great ignore feature.

 

[[icon]]

This thread is officially a dumpster fire.... a fitting tribute, indeed.

 

[Fat Nick]

This thread is officially a dumpster fire.... a fitting tribute, indeed.

I'm actually surprised we dodged the 5-alarm inferno on day 1 when it almost spiraled into gun-control chaos before they even located the guy.

 

[Stinger Ray]

Tim tried to derail this thread with gun control comments on day 1 but he got chased out to the gun control thread.

 

[Donkey Derp]

:shrugs:

I still like TIS.

Your personal attacks here... Not so much.

Yeah, that was dumb. Sorry everybody.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. The guy comes at me all the time with insults and personal attacks. I've reached out a couple times to bury the hatchet and gotten more insults in return. Like you I remember enjoying the guy's posts until recently so it's not just you. Hope he's OK.

As I explained in the PM, you can't be a richard and then get upset when I say something back to you. You take shot after shot and then when I call you out on it, you send me a PM saying "Hey, what's the deal? How about we just call a truce and be cool?"

You love to dish it out, but you get butt hurt if someone says something back. This post right here is a perfect example. Keep crying about me "hitting you back."

I deleted that post pretty much immediately after posting it. Not sure what mechanism you used to reproduce it three days later, but I apologize for it nevertheless. Have a great week.

Yes. You deleted it after you were called out on it. It's the fact you wrote it at all. As I said in the PM, I don't come looking for you. If you are a richard to me, whether it be directly or indirectly, I will say something back.

No, I deleted it pretty quickly, it was gone by the time whoever that was finished their reply. He just captured it by starting his response immediately I guess.

I try never insult you (or anyone here) personally, I only criticize the content of posts. I think those are two very different things. I guess you don't see it that way, which is fine- I'll be sure not to direct either in your direction in the future. Again, my apologies for the quickly deleted post last Friday.

You come across as a condescending ### often with comments you post.

Sorry you feel that way. Like I said I challenge and criticize posts, not posters. I like and respect pretty much everyone I come across around here. If you don't see it that way this message board has a great ignore feature.

You are so oblivious to yourself

Shhh. The adults are talking.
When you figure out that white people can do those things as easily as black people, and that therefore the racial disparity is still noteworthy and your point is completely irrelevant, you can join us.

 

[sublimeone]

:shrugs:I still like TIS.

Your personal attacks here... Not so much.

Yeah, that was dumb. Sorry everybody.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. The guy comes at me all the time with insults and personal attacks. I've reached out a couple times to bury the hatchet and gotten more insults in return. Like you I remember enjoying the guy's posts until recently so it's not just you. Hope he's OK.

Ever notice how often Tobias uses the bolded tactic? Constantly referring to other posters or their point of view as "silly" or "weird" or "odd" etc...? He has to let those who hold a different point of view know they're strange, or in this case not "OK," for disagreeing with him.

This might be a little window into the psyche of Tobias. I'm guessing he's pretty self-conscious about being an odd person himself and it manifests in these types of insults.

 

[TobiasFunke]

:shrugs:I still like TIS.

Your personal attacks here... Not so much.

Yeah, that was dumb. Sorry everybody.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. The guy comes at me all the time with insults and personal attacks. I've reached out a couple times to bury the hatchet and gotten more insults in return. Like you I remember enjoying the guy's posts until recently so it's not just you. Hope he's OK.

Ever notice how often Tobias uses the bolded tactic? Constantly referring to other posters or their point of view as "silly" or "weird" or "odd" etc...? He has to let those who hold a different point of view know they're strange, or in this case not "OK," for disagreeing with him.

This might be a little window into the psyche of Tobias. I'm guessing he's pretty self-conscious about being an odd person himself and it manifests in these types of insults.

I tried to drop this within two minutes of posting it, I don't know why you all are insisting on ruining a thread about a tragic killing by bringing it back up as an excuse to take shots at me.

Obviously by "I hope he's OK" I was referring to external events that might make someone more easily frustrated, not criticizing his point of view or whatever it is you're trying to say. There was clearly no insult intended, I don't even know where you could find one there. I sincerely hope for the best for him and for everyone else here. I guess maybe my sincerity here is confusing? I dunno.

Anyway, if you happen to feel the same you'll be happy to know that while I may be a bit odd, I'm not self-conscious about it at all

 

[TheIronSheik]

:shrugs:I still like TIS.

Your personal attacks here... Not so much.

Yeah, that was dumb. Sorry everybody.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. The guy comes at me all the time with insults and personal attacks. I've reached out a couple times to bury the hatchet and gotten more insults in return. Like you I remember enjoying the guy's posts until recently so it's not just you. Hope he's OK.

Ever notice how often Tobias uses the bolded tactic? Constantly referring to other posters or their point of view as "silly" or "weird" or "odd" etc...? He has to let those who hold a different point of view know they're strange, or in this case not "OK," for disagreeing with him.

This might be a little window into the psyche of Tobias. I'm guessing he's pretty self-conscious about being an odd person himself and it manifests in these types of insults.

I tried to drop this within two minutes of posting it, I don't know why you all are insisting on ruining a thread about a tragic killing by bringing it back up as an excuse to take shots at me.

Obviously by "I hope he's OK" I was referring to external events that might make someone more easily frustrated, not criticizing his point of view or whatever it is you're trying to say. There was clearly no insult intended, I don't even know where you could find one there. I sincerely hope for the best for him and for everyone else here. I guess maybe my sincerity here is confusing? I dunno.

Anyway, if you happen to feel the same you'll be happy to know that while I may be a bit odd, I'm not self-conscious about it at all

And I love the "I deleted it right after I posted it. Why are you guys still talking about it?" shtick. That's gold.

"Hey, did you just insult me?"

"Yes, but I took it back right away. Geez, why are you still harping on it?"

 

[fred_1_15301]

This thread after the shootings occurred -- :(

This thread now -- :X ​

 

[TobiasFunke]

And I love the "I deleted it right after I posted it. Why are you guys still talking about it?" shtick. That's gold.

"Hey, did you just insult me?"

"Yes, but I took it back right away. Geez, why are you still harping on it?"

Again, no insult was intended, but I'm still sorry to have posted something you took as an insult. No shtick, no

 

[matttyl]

So, in an attempt to get this back on track here....

Who's to blame? The murderer? Guns? Mental health? Flags?

 

[Mile High]

So, in an attempt to get this back on track here....

Who's to blame? The murderer? Guns? Mental health? Flags?

The murderer. It's been part of who we are since the first person born killed the second person born.

 

[Bucky86]

I kind of like hearing about these fights that head to PM's. Wonder what they said to each other?

 

[xulf]

I vote that anyone who hasn't discussed the actual event in the last two pages should be banned from this thread. I am fine if that includes me for this post.

 

[BowieMercs]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/28/new-gun-laws-wouldnt-have-stopped-va-gunman-wh/

 

[3C's]

3rd victim recovering. http://wsls.com/2015/08/31/vicki-gardner-declared-poster-child-for-bullet-wound-recovery-at-crmh/