Rhetorical Question for Ravens players, fans, et. al (1 Viewer)

[The Ghost of Common]

I've only seen two Patriots games this year. The Colts game and Monday nights game against the Ravens.

I remember being pretty unimpressed with the refs officiating in the Colts games, I think the consensus was the Colts had some pretty terrible interference calls go in their favor.

Fast forward to Monday night, the Pats got some good calls. Nothing too crazy, the hold was a hold, the call on the Gaffney catch could have gone either way and most will admit that, it went with the call on the field.

While I generally can't stand the Patriots, one thing I've seen missing from the debate is the Ravens responsibility in this loss. Its indicative of the world today to not take responsibility, to blame things on the refs or a league conspiracy but...

Did the refs make Rex Ryan scream out for a time out frantically?

Did the refs not make a single first down in the 4th quarter?

Did the refs throw that absymal Boller interception?

Did the refs call a terrible 2nd half game plan?

Did the refs pick up the flag thrown on Bart Scott and throw it into the stands?

Did the refs hold Ben Watson from the 8yard line to the 2 yard line?

I heard Bart Scotts comments on the radio today about how the league wanted the Patriots to win and this is the exact attitude that gets people fired in the work place, the exact attitude that I will never teach my children. The attitude of never taking an iota of responsibility yourself or act like a man in the face of adversity, not like a little witch with a capital B.

Nobody loses games anymore, its always a fix, a bad call, a refs fault, the other tea is cheating.

You guys crying about some fix haven't yet mentioned that the Ravens had opportunity to take this game into their own hands and put it away. They failed to execute. Grow up and take some responsibility for yourself because all I see in Baltimore is a bunch of whining babies who haven't been taught to take rrsponsibility for themselves.

I didn't see a thread discussing the Ravens culpability here, only how they were screwed. If this isn't appropriate, feel free to purge.

 

[(unwelcomed)GUEST]

I know you wrote rhetorical but, I imagine you wouldn't have started a topic if you didn't want some discussion. Here goes:

I'm a Ravens fan. I love watching the defense PLAY. I hate that they talk, posture and freakin' dance non-stop on the football field. AD pretty much nailed the Ravens, dead on, with his comments in the Ray Lewis debate. Paraphrasing, AD said that the Ravens were a bunch of chest thumping individuals. He said the individual spotlight mentality started at the top and was promoted throughout the team. I love watching Boller, Heap, Mason, Kelly Gregg, Ngata. There are a bunch of s-talking cry babies on this team though. The Ravens have been getting jobbed on calls for at least the past 3 seasons. If it's close, it'll go against Baltimore. In my mind there are reasons for this. The refs hate all non-stop posturing and crap talking, if its close your damn right the flag is going to fly. Billick began to openly question refs in post game PCs or making references to the officiating without coming out directly and saying it. Billick's comments don't help this nor does his lack of control over players when it comes to controlling the aforementioned attitude and crap talking. Additionally, the Ravens play in an undisciplined manner at crucial times: false starts, illegal formations, offsides, etc.

Refs are human. After a group of refs sees the same team two or three times, they see the same attitude over and over, do you really expect them to get close calls or no calls on close plays. I think Boller, Heap (if he'd have played) or Gregg would have given you a different response to the game than Rolle, McAllister, or Scott. I think in the end, the Ravens would be happy with a consistently called game. One of the quotes from the player nailed the frustration: (paraphrasing) One week a rec goes down the field and runs into a db, the call is defensive pass interference. The next week our rec goes down field and runs into their db, the call is offensive pass interference. The ball was in the air both times, both players were attempting to make a play on the ball...no call right? No wrong, flags on both plays, both go against us. If they toned down the crap talk, dancing and attitude things would be different, IMO.

 

[Assani Fisher]

I've only seen two Patriots games this year. The Colts game and Monday nights game against the Ravens.I remember being pretty unimpressed with the refs officiating in the Colts games, I think the consensus was the Colts had some pretty terrible interference calls go in their favor.Fast forward to Monday night, the Pats got some good calls. Nothing too crazy, the hold was a hold, the call on the Gaffney catch could have gone either way and most will admit that, it went with the call on the field.While I generally can't stand the Patriots, one thing I've seen missing from the debate is the Ravens responsibility in this loss. Its indicative of the world today to not take responsibility, to blame things on the refs or a league conspiracy but...Did the refs make Rex Ryan scream out for a time out frantically?Did the refs not make a single first down in the 4th quarter?Did the refs throw that absymal Boller interception?Did the refs call a terrible 2nd half game plan?Did the refs pick up the flag thrown on Bart Scott and throw it into the stands? Did the refs hold Ben Watson from the 8yard line to the 2 yard line?I heard Bart Scotts comments on the radio today about how the league wanted the Patriots to win and this is the exact attitude that gets people fired in the work place, the exact attitude that I will never teach my children. The attitude of never taking an iota of responsibility yourself or act like a man in the face of adversity, not like a little witch with a capital B. Nobody loses games anymore, its always a fix, a bad call, a refs fault, the other tea is cheating.You guys crying about some fix haven't yet mentioned that the Ravens had opportunity to take this game into their own hands and put it away. They failed to execute. Grow up and take some responsibility for yourself because all I see in Baltimore is a bunch of whining babies who haven't been taught to take rrsponsibility for themselves.I didn't see a thread discussing the Ravens culpability here, only how they were screwed. If this isn't appropriate, feel free to purge.

I fully understand what you're saying, but please understand that this game was the best the Ravens played all season BY FAR. To tell them "Take responsibilty and play better" is tough if you consider that. How can they play any better than their best game all year?Furthermore, I think you're taking human emotions out of it. To be a pretty bad/mediocre team and play way over your heads and by most people's accounts to outplay the best team in the league only to lose due to some bad breaks and questionable calls is tough, and in your first interview or two after the game its tough to say the right things always.

 

[The Ghost of Common]

I know you wrote rhetorical but, I imagine you wouldn't have started a topic if you didn't want some discussion. Here goes:I'm a Ravens fan. I love watching the defense PLAY. I hate that they talk, posture and freakin' dance non-stop on the football field. AD pretty much nailed the Ravens, dead on, with his comments in the Ray Lewis debate. Paraphrasing, AD said that the Ravens were a bunch of chest thumping individuals. He said the individual spotlight mentality started at the top and was promoted throughout the team. I love watching Boller, Heap, Mason, Kelly Gregg, Ngata. There are a bunch of s-talking cry babies on this team though. The Ravens have been getting jobbed on calls for at least the past 3 seasons. If it's close, it'll go against Baltimore. In my mind there are reasons for this. The refs hate all non-stop posturing and crap talking, if its close your damn right the flag is going to fly. Billick began to openly question refs in post game PCs or making references to the officiating without coming out directly and saying it. Billick's comments don't help this nor does his lack of control over players when it comes to controlling the aforementioned attitude and crap talking. Additionally, the Ravens play in an undisciplined manner at crucial times: false starts, illegal formations, offsides, etc.Refs are human. After a group of refs sees the same team two or three times, they see the same attitude over and over, do you really expect them to get close calls or no calls on close plays. I think Boller, Heap (if he'd have played) or Gregg would have given you a different response to the game than Rolle, McAllister, or Scott. I think in the end, the Ravens would be happy with a consistently called game. One of the quotes from the player nailed the frustration: (paraphrasing) One week a rec goes down the field and runs into a db, the call is defensive pass interference. The next week our rec goes down field and runs into their db, the call is offensive pass interference. The ball was in the air both times, both players were attempting to make a play on the ball...no call right? No wrong, flags on both plays, both go against us. If they toned down the crap talk, dancing and attitude things would be different, IMO.

Fair enough. I always looked at the Ravens as sort of a group of "thugs" to be honest. I picked them to win their division this year, but I'm amazed at their refusal to bring in a quarterback that is worth anything at all. I had heard Bart Scott on the radio (ESPN radio I think) do an interview way back in August and he seemed like such a cool headed guy. He actually stuck with me since that interview and I've followed his stat lines and rooted for him to do well. Sounded like a mild guy...then what I saw Monday night and how he spoke on the radio Tuesday sort of changed that all for me.That being said, I don't think you'll find a fan of any team saying "The calls always go in our favor." Most fans will say "Calls always go against my favorite team" It is very subjective. Good response tho. We have people all over the Patriots for getting some calls, but I didn't see much criticism of the Ravens the 10 different ways that the RAVENS LOST THE GAMES FOR THEMSELVES as well and it really started to irritate me.

 

[(unwelcomed)GUEST]

The Ravens have been injured for about half of the year. This was the first game that Ogden has played in some weeks. The first that he has been healthy. McNair has been injured all year, Boller doesn't have accuracy but can get the ball down the field. The Ravens played four games without either of their starting corners and an injured Ed Reed. Again this was the first game with both corners back on the field (McAllister was still very hampered by the bad knee). And eventhough Bellichick minimized it, the wind limited NEs deep passing game. I don't think the Ravens played over their head. The D was put together to beat the Colts passing offense. The Oline was put together to pound the ball down other Ds throats. The Ravens had a number of injured starters back, played well, got an officiating crew that generally let the dbs and wrs play physically and had the weather. Keep in mind though, that Heap and a couple of Dlineman are still injured for the Ravens.

Bart Scott is typically a stand-up guy. He seems to be extremely emotional in games. He, himself says once the game starts that he finds something that pisses him off or someone, and that inspires his play for the rest of the game. Guess it was the ref this game? LOL

What I heard yesterday was that Rolle approached the official earlier in the game about push-offs. The ref responded someway or somehow with, Boy just play the game. Rolle got pissed at the boy reference and told him if he ever played the game he would understand. Again the ref responded, Boy I played this game... Rolle again pissed at the boy comment. Holding call at end of game, Rolle protested...ref: Boy, blah blah. Controversial TD call, Scott says something, same ref: Boy comment....Scott goes off. It wasn't one single incident. Refs and players talk throughout the game: say hello, say watch the db holding, say he's pushing off can you keep an eye out you were probably shielded from the last one, whatever. The dialogue didn't go well with Rolle and this ref. NO excuse. Poor offensive execution again cost the Ravens another game. NE played a better fourth quarter, Bellichick was shown in pregame preaching 60 MINUTES, 60 MINUTES, 60 MINUTES. Guess what, the Ravens got outplayed in the 4th quarter. It was a great game to watch.

 

[roadkill1292]

Since there aren't many of us on this board, I don't think much of the complaining came from Ravens' fans. Sure, it was a disappointing loss. And, like (unwelcomed)Guest put it, we don't think they get many breaks from the zebras. But they've also been a pretty unlikeable bunch over the years and most of us around here think that they bring a lot of this stuff on themselves.

As far as Monday night goes, I'm just left thinking that they needed to make one more play to win that game and, as they have so often in the past, failed to do so.

 

[jscout]

The impression I get is that most of the whining and blaming the officials comes from all the Patriots haters. The real Ravens fans seem to blame the team more. I could be wrong, but that's the impression I get.