Saints' loss squarely on Payton's shoulders... (1 Viewer)

[pizzatyme]

I've seen this all too often, the conservative approach. Play for the FG, put the game in the hands of your defense, blah blah blah...

You have the Vikes on their heels and you're at the 30 with 3+ minutes to go. Go for the TD, or at least more 1st downs to run clock. Running Deuce up the back of his Linemen is stupidity at its finest.

I called the missed FG when I saw their offensive package on 1st down.

I won't even go into the onsides kick in the first half...

 

[FreeBaGeL]

You'd think that if they were going to settle in for the FG they'd at least wait until the got a little closer than a 46 yarder, especially given their kicking troubles.

 

[Sanboy]

i cant say anything wrong with anything but the final drive for the saints

the offense is built around passing and being aggresive . and when you have a chance to go for the win ... with a TD you play for a FG

this is where Payton needs to learn something from LES MILES

 

[the roflmobile]

I've seen this all too often, the conservative approach. Play for the FG, put the game in the hands of your defense, blah blah blah...You have the Vikes on their heels and you're at the 30 with 3+ minutes to go. Go for the TD, or at least more 1st downs to run clock. Running Deuce up the back of his Linemen is stupidity at its finest.I called the missed FG when I saw their offensive package on 1st down. I won't even go into the onsides kick in the first half...

I thought Childress' play calling was worse, actually, and should have cost the Vikes the game (what was with all those runs up the middle for AP?). The Saints shot themselves in the foot with what, 12 penalties? I'd say the Saints' offense has a lot of work to do this week in practice.

 

[TakiToki]

Saints should have let the Vikes score from the 15 on the final drive. Then they would have had over a minute left with two time-outs to score a TD to tie, rather than 11 seconds with no time-outs to get a FG. Longwell missing a 30-yarder is virtually out of play.

 

[Broadway Joe]

I've seen this all too often, the conservative approach. Play for the FG, put the game in the hands of your defense, blah blah blah...You have the Vikes on their heels and you're at the 30 with 3+ minutes to go. Go for the TD, or at least more 1st downs to run clock. Running Deuce up the back of his Linemen is stupidity at its finest.I called the missed FG when I saw their offensive package on 1st down. I won't even go into the onsides kick in the first half...

Yeah that loss is on Payton. Saints RB looked like they were moving through quicksand all night. I thought Dan Reaves was calling plays for a second

 

[ChrisCooleyFan]

Alot of my Saints friends hate Payton. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I belive the Tuna, took away his play calling when he was in Dallas. He is so smug, and I get tired of how he's considered a genius. Also how the HEll is he the 5th highest paid coach? Dude is a game or 2 over 500.?

 

[Slider]

Payton has to be one of the most annoying coaches on the sideline. He runs up and down yelling like a kid throwing a tantrum. ALL GAME. Somebody should pull the coffee pot.

 

[ChrisCooleyFan]

Payton has to be one of the most annoying coaches on the sideline. He runs up and down yelling like a kid throwing a tantrum. ALL GAME. Somebody should pull the coffee pot.

Very

 

[King of the Wolfies]

I'm still confused how the Saints lost that game. They were unstopable in the beginning then kinda went to sleep and I dont think the defense had anything to do with it.

 

[ATC1]

all of the above

 

[Ditka is God]

I thought the game was poorly managed by both coaches .... that's probably why it was so entertaining to watch!

 

[Ghost Rider]

As an aggressive coach as Payton can be at times, when the game is on the line, he gets all conservative and scared.

 

[biggamer3]

About the Saints last real drive, what are you talking about?

they ran it on 1st, but threw on second and third, correct?

 

[ATC1]

I might have to back track a tad after seeing the play for play. It's really not as bad as what I originally thought. However, I don't know how you can change to a conservative philosophy within range of a 50 yard FG. He started running the ball too early.

1-10-MIN 39 (5:01) 26-D.McAllister right guard to MIN 33 for 6 yards (94-P.Williams, 69-J.Allen). 2-4-MIN 33 (4:21) 25-R.Bush left end to MIN 30 for 3 yards (42-D.Sharper). 3-1-MIN 30 (3:39) 26-D.McAllister right guard to MIN 29 for 1 yard (94-P.Williams).

Worked out well at first.

1-10-MIN 29 (2:59) 26-D.McAllister right guard to MIN 28 for 1 yard (93-K.Williams). Timeout #1 by NO at 02:13. 2-9-MIN 28 (2:13) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short right to 27-A.Stecker (94-P.Williams). 3-9-MIN 28 (2:09) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short right to 19-D.Henderson. 4-9-MIN 28 (2:04) 1-M.Gramatica 46 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Left, Center-47-K.Houser, Holder-7-S.Weatherford.

tried it on first since it worked last time, then went back to the passing game.

 

[Breesisdaman]

Payton deserves blame certainly. The percentage of passing plays were a problem, I realize this is the Viking Defense but you have to keep them honest with a few token runs. the on sides kick- horrible!, Clock management unforgivable. But it is not his fault alone. Penalties whether real or bad calls, Turnovers (Protect the damn ball!) and oh yeah Gramatica. Are the Giants releasing Carney when Tynes comes back? If so he has a new gig back with his old team. The Saints are the best losing franchise in the league period but they do it to themselves. They dominated the stats in this game and should have won easily thats the heartbreaker for Saints fans but we are used to it. Thank you sir may I have another

 

[timoleander]

1-10-MIN 29 (2:59) 26-D.McAllister right guard to MIN 28 for 1 yard (93-K.Williams). Timeout #1 by NO at 02:13. 2-9-MIN 28 (2:13) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short right to 27-A.Stecker (94-P.Williams). 3-9-MIN 28 (2:09) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short right to 19-D.Henderson. 4-9-MIN 28 (2:04) 1-M.Gramatica 46 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Left, Center-47-K.Houser, Holder-7-S.Weatherford.

tried it on first since it worked last time, then went back to the passing game.

I thought that this was where he made his mistake: instead of running Deuce or Reggie again and getting to the 2-minute warning (or forcing an early MIN timeout), he elected to throw twice which killed the clock and, essentially, gave MIN a couple of free clock stoppages. A couple of runs might have put the ball inside the 25 yard line, run the clock down more substantially, and, even with the miss, forced the Vikings into moving the ball with much less comfort.

 

[ATC1]

1-10-MIN 29 (2:59) 26-D.McAllister right guard to MIN 28 for 1 yard (93-K.Williams). Timeout #1 by NO at 02:13. 2-9-MIN 28 (2:13) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short right to 27-A.Stecker (94-P.Williams). 3-9-MIN 28 (2:09) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short right to 19-D.Henderson. 4-9-MIN 28 (2:04) 1-M.Gramatica 46 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Left, Center-47-K.Houser, Holder-7-S.Weatherford.

tried it on first since it worked last time, then went back to the passing game.

I thought that this was where he made his mistake: instead of running Deuce or Reggie again and getting to the 2-minute warning (or forcing an early MIN timeout), he elected to throw twice which killed the clock and, essentially, gave MIN a couple of free clock stoppages. A couple of runs might have put the ball inside the 25 yard line, run the clock down more substantially, and, even with the miss, forced the Vikings into moving the ball with much less comfort.

I would have passed the ball on the 2-3 downs before this set to get to the 25. Then run to burn timeouts. Why change to a running philosophy when the passing game has been working? Don't start running the ball against a great run defense when you are still looking at a 50 yard FG.

 

[munchkin]

I only watched 2-1/2 qtrs but from what I saw their were too many penalties, Meacham needs to catch balls that hit him in the hands, Bush (and yes I know he returned 2 punts) needs to protect the ball better and Brees is great.

The Saints defense showed up and defended the run very well. The players on the field lost the game.

 

[nysfl2]

1-10-MIN 29 (2:59) 26-D.McAllister right guard to MIN 28 for 1 yard (93-K.Williams). Timeout #1 by NO at 02:13. 2-9-MIN 28 (2:13) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short right to 27-A.Stecker (94-P.Williams). 3-9-MIN 28 (2:09) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short right to 19-D.Henderson. 4-9-MIN 28 (2:04) 1-M.Gramatica 46 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Left, Center-47-K.Houser, Holder-7-S.Weatherford.

tried it on first since it worked last time, then went back to the passing game.

I thought that this was where he made his mistake: instead of running Deuce or Reggie again and getting to the 2-minute warning (or forcing an early MIN timeout), he elected to throw twice which killed the clock and, essentially, gave MIN a couple of free clock stoppages. A couple of runs might have put the ball inside the 25 yard line, run the clock down more substantially, and, even with the miss, forced the Vikings into moving the ball with much less comfort.

I would have passed the ball on the 2-3 downs before this set to get to the 25. Then run to burn timeouts. Why change to a running philosophy when the passing game has been working? Don't start running the ball against a great run defense when you are still looking at a 50 yard FG.

I don't see what the complaint is. The first three runs were successful in picking up the first down. He then passed on 2-of-3 plays in the next series. It seems like a pretty good stretch of play-calling to me.The idiot safety who mauled Berrian on the long pass is the goat on this one. You've got to make him catch the ball, not just give him the 50 yards. Better to let him catch it and run in for the touchdown in that situation than to give up the PI penalty.

 

[AgentMulder]

I only watched 2-1/2 qtrs but from what I saw their were too many penalties, Meacham needs to catch balls that hit him in the hands, Bush (and yes I know he returned 2 punts) needs to protect the ball better and Brees is great.The Saints defense showed up and defended the run very well. The players on the field lost the game.

Payton is partially to blame of course, but really the PLAYERS were the problem last night.

 

[valhallan]

1-10-MIN 29 (2:59) 26-D.McAllister right guard to MIN 28 for 1 yard (93-K.Williams). Timeout #1 by NO at 02:13. 2-9-MIN 28 (2:13) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short right to 27-A.Stecker (94-P.Williams). 3-9-MIN 28 (2:09) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short right to 19-D.Henderson. 4-9-MIN 28 (2:04) 1-M.Gramatica 46 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Left, Center-47-K.Houser, Holder-7-S.Weatherford.

tried it on first since it worked last time, then went back to the passing game.

I thought that this was where he made his mistake: instead of running Deuce or Reggie again and getting to the 2-minute warning (or forcing an early MIN timeout), he elected to throw twice which killed the clock and, essentially, gave MIN a couple of free clock stoppages. A couple of runs might have put the ball inside the 25 yard line, run the clock down more substantially, and, even with the miss, forced the Vikings into moving the ball with much less comfort.

I thought the same thing but was far too frustrated last night to come here and post about it. First of all, how do you take too long to get the 2nd down play in and force yourself to call a timeout? Second, you just ran the ball 4 straight times and picked up a first down while burning nearly 3 minutes off the clock. Why not keep doing it, get the FG closer if you don't get the first down, and force the Vikings to start using timeouts? Instead, they pass twice, gain nothing, miss the FG, and give the Vikings the ball armed with the 2-minute warning and 2 timeouts. WTF.Payton's problem is not being conservative, it's overthinking the situation. When a pass is needed, he runs. When a run is needed, he passes. When the game is ready to be iced, he runs a double reverse.

 

[Breesisdaman]

The idiot safety who mauled Berrian on the long pass is the goat on this one. You've got to make him catch the ball, not just give him the 50 yards. Better to let him catch it and run in for the touchdown in that situation than to give up the PI penalty.

That would be Kevin Kaesviharn . Yep I left him out he needs his props too for that play. The Saints of old are re-emerging. Finding new ways of losing ball games.

 

[Sabertooth]

If Reggie Bush didn't trip over his own feet, they'd have won.

 

[ATC1]

1-10-MIN 29 (2:59) 26-D.McAllister right guard to MIN 28 for 1 yard (93-K.Williams). Timeout #1 by NO at 02:13. 2-9-MIN 28 (2:13) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short right to 27-A.Stecker (94-P.Williams). 3-9-MIN 28 (2:09) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short right to 19-D.Henderson. 4-9-MIN 28 (2:04) 1-M.Gramatica 46 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Left, Center-47-K.Houser, Holder-7-S.Weatherford.

tried it on first since it worked last time, then went back to the passing game.

I thought that this was where he made his mistake: instead of running Deuce or Reggie again and getting to the 2-minute warning (or forcing an early MIN timeout), he elected to throw twice which killed the clock and, essentially, gave MIN a couple of free clock stoppages. A couple of runs might have put the ball inside the 25 yard line, run the clock down more substantially, and, even with the miss, forced the Vikings into moving the ball with much less comfort.

I would have passed the ball on the 2-3 downs before this set to get to the 25. Then run to burn timeouts. Why change to a running philosophy when the passing game has been working? Don't start running the ball against a great run defense when you are still looking at a 50 yard FG.

I don't see what the complaint is. The first three runs were successful in picking up the first down. He then passed on 2-of-3 plays in the next series. It seems like a pretty good stretch of play-calling to me.The idiot safety who mauled Berrian on the long pass is the goat on this one. You've got to make him catch the ball, not just give him the 50 yards. Better to let him catch it and run in for the touchdown in that situation than to give up the PI penalty.

The ball was underthrown and KK was playing catchup instead of turning around. Happens all the time. I thought running the ball was too early eventhough they made a first down with the first set of downs, especially when they are not in FG range yet.

 

[NoFBinLA]

I thought Childress' play calling was worse, actually, and should have cost the Vikes the game (what was with all those runs up the middle for AP?). The Saints shot themselves in the foot with what, 12 penalties? I'd say the Saints' offense has a lot of work to do this week in practice.

A bunch of weird 'go for the big play' choices when they needed to be running the clock down too. Childress' playcalling is odd. I'm not saying take your foot off the gas against a pretty dynamic offense but sometimes on 2-14 you need to just try to make for a reasonable 3rd down. Not go for 30 yards then end up with 3-14.

 

[Wildcat]

I don't understand the onside kick. Your defense has shown all year they can't stop anyone. Why take the chance to give the Vikings great field position?

IMO you should only try a surprise onside if: 1) you have a good defense. 2) You are leading by several points (nail in the coffin) or 3) You just scored but are still behind.

To try it that early in the game when only leading by 7 points is stupid.

 

[biggamer3]

1-10-MIN 29 (2:59) 26-D.McAllister right guard to MIN 28 for 1 yard (93-K.Williams). Timeout #1 by NO at 02:13. 2-9-MIN 28 (2:13) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short right to 27-A.Stecker (94-P.Williams). 3-9-MIN 28 (2:09) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short right to 19-D.Henderson. 4-9-MIN 28 (2:04) 1-M.Gramatica 46 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Left, Center-47-K.Houser, Holder-7-S.Weatherford.

tried it on first since it worked last time, then went back to the passing game.

I thought that this was where he made his mistake: instead of running Deuce or Reggie again and getting to the 2-minute warning (or forcing an early MIN timeout), he elected to throw twice which killed the clock and, essentially, gave MIN a couple of free clock stoppages. A couple of runs might have put the ball inside the 25 yard line, run the clock down more substantially, and, even with the miss, forced the Vikings into moving the ball with much less comfort.

This is sooo funny, the OP says why they go conservative and you are saying why didnt they go conservative!

 

[pizzatyme]

1-10-MIN 29 (2:59) 26-D.McAllister right guard to MIN 28 for 1 yard (93-K.Williams). Timeout #1 by NO at 02:13. 2-9-MIN 28 (2:13) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short right to 27-A.Stecker (94-P.Williams). 3-9-MIN 28 (2:09) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short right to 19-D.Henderson. 4-9-MIN 28 (2:04) 1-M.Gramatica 46 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Left, Center-47-K.Houser, Holder-7-S.Weatherford.

tried it on first since it worked last time, then went back to the passing game.

I thought that this was where he made his mistake: instead of running Deuce or Reggie again and getting to the 2-minute warning (or forcing an early MIN timeout), he elected to throw twice which killed the clock and, essentially, gave MIN a couple of free clock stoppages. A couple of runs might have put the ball inside the 25 yard line, run the clock down more substantially, and, even with the miss, forced the Vikings into moving the ball with much less comfort.

This is sooo funny, the OP says why they go conservative and you are saying why didnt they go conservative!

There is a big difference here. The Saints moved the ball through the air on that drive to get to where they were. Then, for no reason, they run on 1st down. I know they just got a 1st down by running 3 times, but now the Vikes were expecting it. Just put the damn ball in the hands of your best weapon (Brees) and let him win the game for you on 1st down. By running it, and only gaining 1 yard, then they HAD to pass on 2nd and 3rd down, which the Vikes were EXPECTING!!!Do what you do best, win or lose. Especially when it's working! 3 dump offs to Bush and that game is over!!!!!!!!!!!!