Saints will be playoff bound (1 Viewer)

[Gargoylez]

I honestly would be suprised to see them not place last in thier division.

I see it

Carolina

Tampa

Atl

Saints

not hating

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I seeTampa

Carolina

Atl

Saints

Thats just me, cuz I am a Tampa Homer!

 

[psychobillies]

I honestly would be suprised to see them not place last in thier division.

I see it

Carolina

Tampa

Atl

Saints

not hating

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I seeTampa

Carolina

Atl

Saints

Thats just me, cuz I am a Tampa Homer!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sure you remember that most people predicted the Bucs would finish in last place last year. Truth is nobody knows. Most people are incapable of predicting anything drastically different than what happened last year.

 

[Doug B]

Truth is nobody knows.  Most people are incapable of predicting anything drastically different than what happened last year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's why I see you'll never see the accurate prediction here. No one gambles on the out-of-the-blue surprises which crop up in the NFL every year.

 

[TheLaw]

Truth is nobody knows.  Most people are incapable of predicting anything drastically different than what happened last year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's why I see you'll never see the accurate prediction here. No one gambles on the out-of-the-blue surprises which crop up in the NFL every year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How often has that "out of the blue" team had the #2 overall pick the season before, had a new coaching staff, a new starting QB with arm issues, a new back-up quarterback, a running back coming off an ACL injury, a defense who ranked in the bottom of the league the previous season, a new and worse starting center, a new left tackle, and over $40M invested in one position?

 

[Capella]

Truth is nobody knows.  Most people are incapable of predicting anything drastically different than what happened last year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's why I see you'll never see the accurate prediction here. No one gambles on the out-of-the-blue surprises which crop up in the NFL every year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How often has that "out of the blue" team had the #2 overall pick the season before, had a new coaching staff, a new starting QB with arm issues, a new back-up quarterback, a running back coming off an ACL injury, a defense who ranked in the bottom of the league the previous season, a new and worse starting center, a new left tackle, and over $40M invested in one position?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"well, when you put it that way.."

 

[guderian]

Truth is nobody knows.  Most people are incapable of predicting anything drastically different than what happened last year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's why I see you'll never see the accurate prediction here. No one gambles on the out-of-the-blue surprises which crop up in the NFL every year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How often has that "out of the blue" team had the #2 overall pick the season before, had a new coaching staff, a new starting QB with arm issues, a new back-up quarterback, a running back coming off an ACL injury, a defense who ranked in the bottom of the league the previous season, a new and worse starting center, a new left tackle, and over $40M invested in one position?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know, how often?In a league where teams whine about piped in crowd noise, you have to give the Saints some credit for their circumstances last year. So you are adding the #2 pick to a team that wasn't as bad as their record indicated. Often the "out of the blue team" has had a new coaching staff (see Mora and Haslett in the NFC South alone). I don't have the time to waste, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the surprise teams come from teams with many of the issues you noted above (Players coming off of injuries? Never heard of that before Lots of former #1 defenses among surprise teams too. Lastly, I doubt that the surprise teams didn't have any roster moves either).

 

[Doug B]

How often has that "out of the blue" team had the #2 overall pick the season before, had a new coaching staff, a new starting QB with arm issues, a new back-up quarterback, a running back coming off an ACL injury, a defense who ranked in the bottom of the league the previous season, a new and worse starting center, a new left tackle, and over $40M invested in one position?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

See the 1999 Rams. Very close to the same scenario. Some of the particulars are different, but no one saw that worst-to-first rise coming.Besides, all I'm saying is that they'll be competitive and compete for a playoff spot ... not be some 14-win world-beaters.

Heck ... what was your prediction for the 2000 Saints, Haslett's first year when they beat the defending champ Rams in the first round?

 

[Voice Of Reason]

I'm not too high on the aging LB and Fujita who was perhaps the worst starting LB on KC and was cut from 2 teams in his first 5 or 6 years to improve the defense.

And I don't have much faith with Jaime Martin going out and winning games. With our defense, managing a game won't be enough, he'll have to go out and win games.

 

[P Boy]

More to the point, the Aints had the 6th worst run D in the NFL last season, and did nothing - repeat, not ONE move - in the offseason so far, either in FA or in the draft, to improve that run D by even one player.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not one move in FA or the draft? What about LB's Fujita and Simmons or Run Stopping DT Hollis Thomas. They also picked a strong tackler in rd 2 of the draft.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Other teams' castoffs? Fujita played for a KC team that was even worse at stopping the run than NO & he couldn't hold his job, then had a cup of coffee at DAL. The last time Simmons played 16 games was 5 years ago. He's as likely to play in 3 games as he is to play in 12. Thomas has averaged 2 tackles (solos + assists) a game for the past 4 years, and hasn't had a sack in 6 years (ie - no penetration).Those are the upgrades in your run D?

Buena suerte with that.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

The Saints made perhaps the biggest steal in draft history, add a pro bowl QB and ditched the worst coach in modern times. Will this put them in the playoffs?

Vote and discuss.......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Look!It's Hyperbole Man!

 

[Doug B]

And I don't have much faith with Jaime Martin going out and winning games.  With our defense, managing a game won't be enough, he'll have to go out and win games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... OK.I'll put it out there -- Brees's shoulder injury is being WAY overblown. I lock him in as the totally healthy opening day starter right now (barring re-injury). Dude's not done.

 

[Doug B]

Those are the upgrades in your run D?

Buena suerte with that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Truth be told ... just getting out of the post-Katrina practice and facilities situation makes all the units on the team much more solid. A bottom-10 run defense is not a foregone conclusion, IMHO.

 

[TheLaw]

How often has that "out of the blue" team had the #2 overall pick the season before, had a new coaching staff, a new starting QB with arm issues, a new back-up quarterback, a running back coming off an ACL injury, a defense who ranked in the bottom of the league the previous season, a new and worse starting center, a new left tackle, and over $40M invested in one position?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

See the 1999 Rams. Very close to the same scenario. Some of the particulars are different, but no one saw that worst-to-first rise coming.Besides, all I'm saying is that they'll be competitive and compete for a playoff spot ... not be some 14-win world-beaters.

Heck ... what was your prediction for the 2000 Saints, Haslett's first year when they beat the defending champ Rams in the first round?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Vermeil started with the Rams in 1997 and Pace was drafted 1st overall that year. They had the #6 overall pick in 1999 and traded for Marshall Faulk that year.

 

[TheLaw]

And I don't have much faith with Jaime Martin going out and winning games.  With our defense, managing a game won't be enough, he'll have to go out and win games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... OK.I'll put it out there -- Brees's shoulder injury is being WAY overblown. I lock him in as the totally healthy opening day starter right now (barring re-injury). Dude's not done.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The dolphins thought it was safer to go with the guy who tore three ligaments in his knee who is likely out until week 5 or so.

 

[Doug B]

Vermeil started with the Rams in 1997 and Pace was drafted 1st overall that year.  They had the #6 overall pick in 1999 and traded for Marshall Faulk that year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... so you're hanging this all on the factor of having the #2 pick I don't think that factor is the least bit siginificant. The Rams stunk in 1998 ... that was the idea of me bringing them up. On top of stinking that year ... no one expected jack from them in 1999 ... AND that went double after Trent Green went down.

 

[Doug B]

And I don't have much faith with Jaime Martin going out and winning games.  With our defense, managing a game won't be enough, he'll have to go out and win games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... OK.I'll put it out there -- Brees's shoulder injury is being WAY overblown. I lock him in as the totally healthy opening day starter right now (barring re-injury). Dude's not done.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The dolphins thought it was safer to go with the guy who tore three ligaments in his knee who is likely out until week 5 or so.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They wanted Brees, too, and got outbid. Culpepper was their second choice.

As if that matters.

 

[TheLaw]

Vermeil started with the Rams in 1997 and Pace was drafted 1st overall that year.  They had the #6 overall pick in 1999 and traded for Marshall Faulk that year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... so you're hanging this all on the factor of having the #2 pick I don't think that factor is the least bit siginificant. The Rams stunk in 1998 ... that was the idea of me bringing them up. On top of stinking that year ... no one expected jack from them in 1999 ... AND that went double after Trent Green went down.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm saying Vermeil and Martz had their system in place already, had a left tackle who was a #1 pick that was entering his third season, the rams were not one of the 2 worst teams in the NFL the previous year, and they added a proven player who will be in the hall of fame.

 

[TheLaw]

And I don't have much faith with Jaime Martin going out and winning games.  With our defense, managing a game won't be enough, he'll have to go out and win games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... OK.I'll put it out there -- Brees's shoulder injury is being WAY overblown. I lock him in as the totally healthy opening day starter right now (barring re-injury). Dude's not done.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The dolphins thought it was safer to go with the guy who tore three ligaments in his knee who is likely out until week 5 or so.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They wanted Brees, too, and got outbid. Culpepper was their second choice.

As if that matters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Phins doctors looked at Brees and the phins passed.

(passed means they refused to guarantee $$)

and

Brees' decision came within seconds of the Dolphins dropping out of the bidding when they traded a second-round choice for Daunte Culpepper.

 

[Doug B]

Heck ... what was your prediction for the 2000 Saints, Haslett's first year when they beat the defending champ Rams in the first round?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then there's this ... what did you think the 2000 Saints were going to do? They were 3-13 in '99, too.

 

[Doug B]

Phins doctors looked at Brees and the phins passed.

(passed means they refused to guarantee $$)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

right back. Dolphins made a contract offer. EDIT: after checking around, it's in doubt whether or not the Dolphins made an offer. Seems to depend on who you ask ... seems weird that there's no definitive word on this

 

[TheLaw]

Heck ... what was your prediction for the 2000 Saints, Haslett's first year when they beat the defending champ Rams in the first round?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then there's this ... what did you think the 2000 Saints were going to do? They were 3-13 in '99, too.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cant say I remember one way or another whether I thought the Saints would win their only playoff game that season. I think I had them winning that game, but cant remember how I felt pre-season. I liked Haslett though at that point coming from the Steelers.

 

[TheLaw]

Phins doctors looked at Brees and the phins passed.

(passed means they refused to guarantee $$)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

right back. Dolphins made a contract offer. EDIT: after checking around, it's in doubt whether or not the Dolphins made an offer. Seems to depend on who you ask ... seems weird that there's no definitive word on this

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dont know if there was a real offer made or not, but:

"New Orleans was also very comfortable with the risk-reward, based on his rehabilitation from the injury, and Miami didn't have that same level of comfort, so New Orleans made a lot of sense for us."

Brees rejected the Dolphins' idea of lowering his demands for guarantees because the Saints made a promise to his agent, Tom Condon. In the end, Brees didn't budge and he ended up going to the Saints.

 

[guderian]

Vermeil started with the Rams in 1997 and Pace was drafted 1st overall that year.  They had the #6 overall pick in 1999 and traded for Marshall Faulk that year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... so you're hanging this all on the factor of having the #2 pick I don't think that factor is the least bit siginificant. The Rams stunk in 1998 ... that was the idea of me bringing them up. On top of stinking that year ... no one expected jack from them in 1999 ... AND that went double after Trent Green went down.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm saying Vermeil and Martz had their system in place already, had a left tackle who was a #1 pick that was entering his third season, the rams were not one of the 2 worst teams in the NFL the previous year, and they added a proven player who will be in the hall of fame.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...and they weren't practicing in a parking lot and using garbage cans for hot tubs. It cost the Bears and Titans 3-4 wins when they were "displaced" to Champaign and Memphis. The Saints had to travel to 13 of their games last year. If you think that their record in 2005 was an accurate reflection of their talent, then the entire basis of your argument is flawed.

 

[guderian]

And I don't have much faith with Jaime Martin going out and winning games.  With our defense, managing a game won't be enough, he'll have to go out and win games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... OK.I'll put it out there -- Brees's shoulder injury is being WAY overblown. I lock him in as the totally healthy opening day starter right now (barring re-injury). Dude's not done.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The dolphins thought it was safer to go with the guy who tore three ligaments in his knee who is likely out until week 5 or so.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They wanted Brees, too, and got outbid. Culpepper was their second choice.

As if that matters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Phins doctors looked at Brees and the phins passed.

(passed means they refused to guarantee $$)

and

Brees' decision came within seconds of the Dolphins dropping out of the bidding when they traded a second-round choice for Daunte Culpepper.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...based on the opinion of Randy Mueller who thought it would be a good idea to acquire Albert Connell and to jettison La Roi Glover, Sammy Knight and Joe Johnson and to replace them with Norman Hand, Grady Jackson and Tebucky Jones.

 

[guderian]

By the way, it's clear that the Saints' off season game plan was predicated on the Texans taking Bush and the Saints trading down for Hawk (or Ferguson). Now that plan has to change and they indicated that LB is still a key need.

 

[jurb26]

In order to make the playoffs, NO may want to explore the option of playing Bush both way..... errrr every way: RB, WR, KR, PR, CB

 

[Vicktimized]

I'm not too high on the aging LB and Fujita who was perhaps the worst starting LB on KC and was cut from 2 teams in his first 5 or 6 years to improve the defense.

And I don't have much faith with Jaime Martin going out and winning games.  With our defense, managing a game won't be enough, he'll have to go out and win games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fujita was considered to be one of the top 3 or 4 lbs in free agency and actually was in Dallas last season. By most accounts he's a pretty solid ballplayer, and wasn't cut from either team. Parcells actually traded for him after KC drafted Johnson. His contract expired after the season, and his position coach, Gibbs, wanted him here after taking the DC job in NO. As for Simmons, he's only 29, so I wouldn't send him to St. Mary's Home for the Elderly just yet.

Neither guy is going to the Pro Bowl anytime soon, but simply playing solid football would be a huge upgrade to the awful Saint LB corps.

 

[Vicktimized]

I will say that I've actually been pretty impressed with the team's offseason. Didn't start out that way though.

I was against the Drew Brees pickup from the start. I thought passing on Matt Leinart would be a mistake that would haunt the team for a long time (which is saying alot). Knowing Saint fortune, the Saints would pass a franchise QB for a guy whose shoulder may or may not allow him to thrive again as an NFL QB. Worst case is the Saints opt out Brees' contract, but Leinart is lost forever. The Bush pickup really fell into place in tandem with the Brees signing and made both moves into positives.

Aside from the obvious, what I like about this regime is that they've tried to fill as many holes as possible, unlike the Haslett regime which seemed to ignore them. We signed two solid LBs....worked the draft to bring in a starting C and a run-stopping specialist along with a diversity of position picks. Payton couldn't have thought he could fill every hole...as it is we still have GAPING holes at our 2 and 3 CB slots, and an unproven MLB.

We lack depth at LB and CB, and we need a lot of improvemeent from Holland, Mayberry and a good debut from unproven Stinchcomb. But these guys are bringing in guys that fit their system and trying to deal those who don't, instead of sticking square pegs into round holes. Dwight Smith was a solid player last year, but the staff wants more of an in the box S, a tackler, and they won't try and 'convert' him into what they want.

Carolina's still the class of the division, but I don't see the roster as being any worse than Atlanta's, and TB is going to depend on the development of Simms, so they are in reach too. And, as every year, the standings in the South will likely be heavily influenced by key injuries as a top contender has been sabotaged due to them nearly every season. (Vick's broken leg, the bevy of injuries in Car 2 years ago, etc.)

On paper, the Saints certainly added a lot of talent this offseason, and will benefit from actually having a home this season in front of their EXTREMELY emotional fans. The health of Brees, Horn and Deuce will determine their ultimate fate as they need the offense to be the team's backbone. If they come back strong though, there is no reason that this season couldn't be the team's most legitimate offering in a long, long time.

10-6, if relatively healthy.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Sorry man. Brees isn't written in to start the season and there are serious questions on defense. Not to mention how the other teams in the division are getting better as well. That division is becoming what the NFC East was a couple of years ago. I think they will be a better team, but their record may not reflect it.

2007 however....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

[Assani Fisher]

2000: 10-6

2001: 7-9

2002: 9-7

2003: 8-8

2004: 8-8

2005: 3-13

I think its safe to say we should discount last year as a complete fluke due to the tragedy and everything they had to go through. Looking at the above records, I'd say that before this offseason, this was around an 8-8 team(not 3-13- that was only due to the circumstances. Remember, not only did they deal with the tragedy, they also lost their best offensive player for the year, and had severe QB issues).

Now they have added the best player in the draft imo and a pro bowl QB. I see no reason why they shouldn't at least improve upon previous years(not talking about the fluke last year). I'd say anywhere from 8-8 to 12-4 is reasonable, so yes they could make the playoffs. Officially, I'd predict that they didn't, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did at all.

 

[chewybip]

I find it amusing how Haslett did arguably the worst job with the New Orleans Saints over any of their other coaches in HISTORY of pee wee's, and is still deemed a terrible coach.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

better

 

[Vicktimized]

More to the point, the Aints had the 6th worst run D in the NFL last season, and did nothing - repeat, not ONE move - in the offseason so far, either in FA or in the draft, to improve that run D by even one player.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not one move in FA or the draft? What about LB's Fujita and Simmons or Run Stopping DT Hollis Thomas. They also picked a strong tackler in rd 2 of the draft.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Other teams' castoffs? Fujita played for a KC team that was even worse at stopping the run than NO & he couldn't hold his job, then had a cup of coffee at DAL. The last time Simmons played 16 games was 5 years ago. He's as likely to play in 3 games as he is to play in 12. Thomas has averaged 2 tackles (solos + assists) a game for the past 4 years, and hasn't had a sack in 6 years (ie - no penetration).Those are the upgrades in your run D?

Buena suerte with that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You said they had not made an attempt to fix the run D. They brought in three guys before the draft to shore it up. Fujita led the Chiefs in tackles his last 2 years there...they traded him to Parcells as they drafted a better prospect, Derrick Johnson. And Thomas is a run-stopper...why are you trying to say he doesn't help the run D by citing he doesn't sack the QB? Occupying blockers and freeing up the guys behind him is a job the Saints haven't had anyone to do since Norman Hand in 2000. Simmons is a flier, but when he's out there he'll make a difference.

 

[cstu]

And I don't have much faith with Jaime Martin going out and winning games.  With our defense, managing a game won't be enough, he'll have to go out and win games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... OK.I'll put it out there -- Brees's shoulder injury is being WAY overblown. I lock him in as the totally healthy opening day starter right now (barring re-injury). Dude's not done.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The dolphins thought it was safer to go with the guy who tore three ligaments in his knee who is likely out until week 5 or so.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They wanted Brees, too, and got outbid. Culpepper was their second choice.

As if that matters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Phins doctors looked at Brees and the phins passed.

(passed means they refused to guarantee $$)

and

Brees' decision came within seconds of the Dolphins dropping out of the bidding when they traded a second-round choice for Daunte Culpepper.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...based on the opinion of Randy Mueller who thought it would be a good idea to acquire Albert Connell and to jettison La Roi Glover, Sammy Knight and Joe Johnson and to replace them with Norman Hand, Grady Jackson and Tebucky Jones.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, that's brilliant - pick and choose what transactions to mention. Fact of the matter is that it was Mueller's decisions that built the Saints.

2000 (10-6, won NFC West)

DE Darren Howard (drafted 2nd round)

DT Norman Hand (free agent)

WR Joe Horn (free agent)

QB Jeff Blake (free agent)

CB Fred Thomas (free agent, former Seahawk)

Acquired QB Aaron Brooks from Green Bay for 3rd round pick

Jim Haslett (head coach)

---The Saints did not have a 1st round pick in 2000, due to the Ricky Williams trade the organization had made the year before. Howard has been one of the best defensive ends in football over the past 5 seasons. Hand was a member of the 2003 Seahawks wild-card team. Horn is the Saints’ top receiver. Blake played for the Saints during the 2000 season before getting hurt, forcing the Saints to play Brooks, a relative unknown out of Virginia.

The Saints would finish 10-6 in 2000, winning the NFC West. They also won their first playoff game in franchise history in 2000, defeating St. Louis.

2001 (7-9, missed playoffs)

RB Deuce McAllister (drafted 1st round. 23rd overall)

S Jay Bellamy (free agent)

KR/PR Michael Lewis (free agent)

TE Boo Williams (undrafted free agent)

---Drafting McAllister was Mueller’s boldest move as an NFL executive. Ricky Williams was still on the roster, but Mueller felt that McAllister was the best player available when it was the Saints’ turn to pick in the 2001 1st round.

Bellamy signed with the Saints after spending the first 7 seasons of his career in Seattle. Lewis was signed in 2001. He was a beer truck driver before being signed by the Saints. He is one of the better return men in football. Williams was an undrafted free agent from Arkansas who has proven to be a capable tight end in New Orleans.

2002 (7-9, missed playoffs; Mueller fired May 2002)

Traded RB Ricky Williams to Miami for 2 1st round picks

WR Donte Stallworth (drafted 1st round, 13th overall)

DE Charles Grant (drafted 1st round, 25th overall, pick acquired from Miami)

C LeCharles Bentley (drafted 2nd round)

WR Jerome Pathon (free agent)

OT Victor Riley (free agent)

DT Grady Jackson (free agent)

---Mueller traded Williams to Miami in 2002 for 2 1st round picks, one of those picks used in 2002 to select Charles Grant. He and Darren Howard are one of the better defensive end duos in football. Stallworth has showed promise in New Orleans, but will best be remembered by Seahawks fans as the player who got hit hard by Ken Hamlin in 2003. Bentley is currently a starter on the Saints’ offensive line.

 

[guderian]

And I don't have much faith with Jaime Martin going out and winning games.  With our defense, managing a game won't be enough, he'll have to go out and win games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... OK.I'll put it out there -- Brees's shoulder injury is being WAY overblown. I lock him in as the totally healthy opening day starter right now (barring re-injury). Dude's not done.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The dolphins thought it was safer to go with the guy who tore three ligaments in his knee who is likely out until week 5 or so.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They wanted Brees, too, and got outbid. Culpepper was their second choice.

As if that matters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Phins doctors looked at Brees and the phins passed.

(passed means they refused to guarantee $$)

and

Brees' decision came within seconds of the Dolphins dropping out of the bidding when they traded a second-round choice for Daunte Culpepper.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...based on the opinion of Randy Mueller who thought it would be a good idea to acquire Albert Connell and to jettison La Roi Glover, Sammy Knight and Joe Johnson and to replace them with Norman Hand, Grady Jackson and Tebucky Jones.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, that's brilliant - pick and choose what transactions to mention. Fact of the matter is that it was Mueller's decisions that built the Saints.

2000 (10-6, won NFC West)

DE Darren Howard (drafted 2nd round)

DT Norman Hand (free agent)

WR Joe Horn (free agent)

QB Jeff Blake (free agent)

CB Fred Thomas (free agent, former Seahawk)

Acquired QB Aaron Brooks from Green Bay for 3rd round pick

Jim Haslett (head coach)

---The Saints did not have a 1st round pick in 2000, due to the Ricky Williams trade the organization had made the year before. Howard has been one of the best defensive ends in football over the past 5 seasons. Hand was a member of the 2003 Seahawks wild-card team. Horn is the Saints’ top receiver. Blake played for the Saints during the 2000 season before getting hurt, forcing the Saints to play Brooks, a relative unknown out of Virginia.

The Saints would finish 10-6 in 2000, winning the NFC West. They also won their first playoff game in franchise history in 2000, defeating St. Louis.

2001 (7-9, missed playoffs)

RB Deuce McAllister (drafted 1st round. 23rd overall)

S Jay Bellamy (free agent)

KR/PR Michael Lewis (free agent)

TE Boo Williams (undrafted free agent)

---Drafting McAllister was Mueller’s boldest move as an NFL executive. Ricky Williams was still on the roster, but Mueller felt that McAllister was the best player available when it was the Saints’ turn to pick in the 2001 1st round.

Bellamy signed with the Saints after spending the first 7 seasons of his career in Seattle. Lewis was signed in 2001. He was a beer truck driver before being signed by the Saints. He is one of the better return men in football. Williams was an undrafted free agent from Arkansas who has proven to be a capable tight end in New Orleans.

2002 (7-9, missed playoffs; Mueller fired May 2002)

Traded RB Ricky Williams to Miami for 2 1st round picks

WR Donte Stallworth (drafted 1st round, 13th overall)

DE Charles Grant (drafted 1st round, 25th overall, pick acquired from Miami)

C LeCharles Bentley (drafted 2nd round)

WR Jerome Pathon (free agent)

OT Victor Riley (free agent)

DT Grady Jackson (free agent)

---Mueller traded Williams to Miami in 2002 for 2 1st round picks, one of those picks used in 2002 to select Charles Grant. He and Darren Howard are one of the better defensive end duos in football. Stallworth has showed promise in New Orleans, but will best be remembered by Seahawks fans as the player who got hit hard by Ken Hamlin in 2003. Bentley is currently a starter on the Saints’ offensive line.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Joe Horn was a great pick up, but his position coach in KC moved to the Saints and obviously had significant input into the decision. Same thing with Brooks--McCarthy was the QB coach in Green Bay. Once the Saints stopped bringing in new coaches there were more Albert Connell type FAs than Joe Horn's. As far as the RW trade and McAllister pick it's not too hard to decide that you need a new RB when your existing RB is curled in a ball on the locker room floor and threatening to quit football to play baseball. That makes the decision to trade RW a pretty easy one. Still, RW had a great year in Miami and that resulted in the 2nd (conditional) first rounder.

So you can take add those players to the ones that you didn't put in bold face type.

A few hits among 1st and 2nd round picks is hardly notable--especially McAllister since the knock on him was that he was injury prone and guess what? He's frequently injured.

Mueller is an OK general manager, but just because he passed on Brees for Culpepper doesn't mean that it's the best decision.

 

[Sidewinder]

...as it is we still have GAPING holes at our 2 and 3 CB slots, and an unproven MLB.

We lack depth at LB and CB ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No argument about LB. CB is ok with McKenzie and Thomas, and Payton said tonight that he's already got Lay penciled in as the nickel corner. Plus signed Anwar Phillips today as an UDFA. That could be a steal if he keeps his head on straight. We're getting there.

 

[Vicktimized]

...as it is we still have GAPING holes at our 2 and 3 CB slots, and an unproven MLB.

We lack depth at LB and CB ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No argument about LB. CB is ok with McKenzie and Thomas, and Payton said tonight that he's already got Lay penciled in as the nickel corner. Plus signed Anwar Phillips today as an UDFA. That could be a steal if he keeps his head on straight. We're getting there.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Freddy Thomas hasn't been right for a couple years now. I hope Lay is a steal, but I suspect we'll see them bring in a stopgap after June 1. Right now those are my biggest concerns, along with consistency out the OL, but you can't fix every issue in one offseason.

 

[Doug B]

Freddy Thomas hasn't been right for a couple years now. I hope Lay is a steal, but I suspect we'll see them bring in a stopgap after June 1. Right now those are my biggest concerns, along with consistency out the OL, but you can't fix every issue in one offseason.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I keep forgetting Fred Thomas is still around :( Wish we could have at least held onto Fakhir Brown. Maybe Anwar Phillips can be like Fakhir ... kind of build his game gradually over a few seasons.

 

[Doug B]

Mueller is an OK general manager, but just because he passed on Brees for Culpepper doesn't mean that it's the best decision.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Way too much is being made of this.Were Brees cheaper, the Dolphins would have signed him in a heartbeat. People are acting like Miami found he was an obvious scrub with no chance of healing up. "Miami not signing Brees" is not exactly a lynchpin argument ... it's grasping at straws.

 

[Saints-Man]

Doug B, I appreciate your comments. How do you feel about the Saints not addressing their OT needs in the 2nd round?

 

[guderian]

I'm not going to answer for Doug B, but I think that too much is made of the LB and OT issues. IMO the plan going into the draft was to address one of those positions with either Ferguson or Hawk--preferably by trading down. They didn't know that Bush would fall to them and they obviously feel that he is a true franchise player--so they took him.

That left holes at LB and OT and left the Saints with too much money tied up at the RB position. Again, this wasn't the plan going into the draft but no one seriously thought that Houston would pass on Bush until last week.

Now, they'll have to adjust their plan and they have some trade bait that they will hopefully use to address the LB and OT. Unfortunately, however, I don't think they will be able to plug all of their holes at this point in the off season. Payton has clearly stated that they need to keep working at upgrading the LB position, so I expect them to work to address that soonest.

 

[Doug B]

Doug B, I appreciate your comments.  How do you feel about the Saints not addressing their OT needs in the 2nd round?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm waiting to see how the two OTs they did draft work out ... especially the guy from Bloomburg (name is escaping me).I really would've loved to see them draft Andrew Whitworth, but it wasn't to be.

 

[3nOut]

Unless they start playing NFL games only with offense, no.

You can't get Reggie Bush on the field until your defense gets OFF it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh big deal. So Bush will have to wait 2-3 plays to get back on the field...

 

[Shlon]

Atlanta's defense should be great. That's not the problem with this team.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Defense was the problem, offense wasn't. In 2005 our offense was ranked #12 while defense was #22. The year we went to the NFC Championship game in 2004 our offense was #20 while defense was #14. So it was the offense that actually improved 8 spots last year while defense regressed 8 spots.

 

[Statorama]

Bush will lead them to three straight Super Bowl championships then retire to golf and play baseball for two years before returning to the Saints for three more rings.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't forget renaming the Lombardi Trophy the "Tom Benson Trophy".My prediction is that every punt or kickoff Bush receives will be returned for a touchdown. Teams get tired of this and start to go for it on fourth down every time ala most Madden games. Unfortunately, the Saints defense will allow them to convert on a 50% clip.

Finally, a guy named Bush that does something good for New Orleans!

 

[Voice Of Reason]

And I don't have much faith with Jaime Martin going out and winning games.  With our defense, managing a game won't be enough, he'll have to go out and win games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... OK.I'll put it out there -- Brees's shoulder injury is being WAY overblown. I lock him in as the totally healthy opening day starter right now (barring re-injury). Dude's not done.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have no idea what the status of Brees is, I assume he's healthy. However, with the weakened OL with a LT who have didn't play that position in his first year in the pros. With Mike Rucker, John Abraham, and Simeon Rice in our division, I'm worried about a LT whose pre-draft negatives were picking up the mental aspects of the game and angles.

 

[Monarch]

The steelers D improved when Has left. (same players) The Saints D was bad because of the scheme. Last year I heard the same things being said about the Bucs. They would finish last. They had no Oline for Cadillac to run through. The D was old... Bla Bla Bla. The great thing about the NFL is the difference between 5-10 and 9-7 is winning 4 games that you lost the year before. The Saints, Texans, Packers, and 49ers all lost plenty of close games just as the Bears, Bucs, Dolphins, etc. did the year before. I think it is absurd to say that ANY team does not have a shot at the playoffs. Teams surprise every year. Players with good coaching get better. The question on the Saints is simple: Were they that bad or was the coaching that bad? I watched every game they played. With a few exceptions, they were leading or were in the game at the end before one of a few things happened. Aaron Brooks made a bonehead play or They had some stupid penalty that allowed the other team to get another chance or they played prevent D and allowed a team to walk down the field. I believe coaching had a lot to do with it.

 

[Vicktimized]

And I don't have much faith with Jaime Martin going out and winning games.  With our defense, managing a game won't be enough, he'll have to go out and win games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... OK.I'll put it out there -- Brees's shoulder injury is being WAY overblown. I lock him in as the totally healthy opening day starter right now (barring re-injury). Dude's not done.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have no idea what the status of Brees is, I assume he's healthy. However, with the weakened OL with a LT who have didn't play that position in his first year in the pros. With Mike Rucker, John Abraham, and Simeon Rice in our division, I'm worried about a LT whose pre-draft negatives were picking up the mental aspects of the game and angles.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know if it's weakened as much as it's a big question mark. They replaced Bentley with Faine and near anything at tackle should be a pass blocking improvement on "Hold Em" Gandy and "False Start" Victor Riley. The guards and Bentley seemed to do a good job last season run blocking after Deuce went down too...Antowain Smith and Aaron Stecker often looked like our only decent players on offense. Gives me hope for Mayberry and Holland.I'm going to be very curious to see if the line was bad due to poor coaching; defenses deciding to send the house at Brooks, counting on his inability to read it quick enough to cash in; or if the individual lineman were just plain bad.

On the second note there, that's going to be one of many, many "Chicken or the egg" questions this season in regards to Brooks and the team: Was he always running for his life because the lineman sucked, or did the lineman look bad because he couldn't make the read?

 

[Vicktimized]

The steelers D improved when Has left. (same players) The Saints D was bad because of the scheme. Last year I heard the same things being said about the Bucs. They would finish last. They had no Oline for Cadillac to run through. The D was old... Bla Bla Bla. The great thing about the NFL is the difference between 5-10 and 9-7 is winning 4 games that you lost the year before. The Saints, Texans, Packers, and 49ers all lost plenty of close games just as the Bears, Bucs, Dolphins, etc. did the year before. I think it is absurd to say that ANY team does not have a shot at the playoffs. Teams surprise every year. Players with good coaching get better. The question on the Saints is simple: Were they that bad or was the coaching that bad? I watched every game they played. With a few exceptions, they were leading or were in the game at the end before one of a few things happened. Aaron Brooks made a bonehead play or They had some stupid penalty that allowed the other team to get another chance or they played prevent D and allowed a team to walk down the field. I believe coaching had a lot to do with it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What he said; Saints really have as much claim to a wildcard in the piss poor NFC as anyone else does.

 

[guderian]

To the people #####ing about the o-line I point out that the team averaged 4.0 yards per carry with Antowain Smith and Aaron Stecker as the leading rushers.

That compares to 3.4 for Carolina, 4.0 for TB and 4.8 for Atlanta--none of which had to travel to 13 of their games.

 

[Sidewinder]

And I don't have much faith with Jaime Martin going out and winning games.  With our defense, managing a game won't be enough, he'll have to go out and win games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... OK.I'll put it out there -- Brees's shoulder injury is being WAY overblown. I lock him in as the totally healthy opening day starter right now (barring re-injury). Dude's not done.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have no idea what the status of Brees is, I assume he's healthy. However, with the weakened OL with a LT who have didn't play that position in his first year in the pros. With Mike Rucker, John Abraham, and Simeon Rice in our division, I'm worried about a LT whose pre-draft negatives were picking up the mental aspects of the game and angles.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know if it's weakened as much as it's a big question mark. They replaced Bentley with Faine and near anything at tackle should be a pass blocking improvement on "Hold Em" Gandy and "False Start" Victor Riley. The guards and Bentley seemed to do a good job last season run blocking after Deuce went down too...Antowain Smith and Aaron Stecker often looked like our only decent players on offense. Gives me hope for Mayberry and Holland.I'm going to be very curious to see if the line was bad due to poor coaching; defenses deciding to send the house at Brooks, counting on his inability to read it quick enough to cash in; or if the individual lineman were just plain bad.

On the second note there, that's going to be one of many, many "Chicken or the egg" questions this season in regards to Brooks and the team: Was he always running for his life because the lineman sucked, or did the lineman look bad because he couldn't make the read?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, Riley was gone last year, and if you go back and watch any significant amount of last year, you'll see over-rated Bentley get blown up alot. I'm not the only one who wasn't dissappointed in seeing him go. The 2 single biggest questions about the o-line will be - can Jamaal handle the move to LT, and can Stinchcomb play up to the promise he showed last t.c. before getting hurt?