Salary Cap Keeper Leagues (1 Viewer)

[Loomba]

Warning: lengthy post to set out facts and questions...

I am hoping to get some input on others' experience with keeper leagues that use a salary cap and auction/bidding structure.

Currently, my main league is a 12 team, keep 4 league. Each year we have a 12 round draft to fill out the rosters after each team elects which 4 players they will keep. You do not have to give up a draft pick to keep a player, like some leagues. Draft picks for the immediately following season are tradeable which helps encourage player movement. Each year we have made adjustments to the rules to improve the league, which nearly all owners say is the best run league they have ever been in. Some owners are very active (probably too active) in trading whereas others are rather inactive (some guys like to stand pat). All owners are experienced FF players.

The league has been run for 6 years. Notwithstanding it is well run, some owners (mainly a few that have struggled or had bad luck) think the league is becoming a bit stagnant since there are a few owners that don't trade much and a few others, such as myself, that have built a strong team and aren't really interested in trading my core four -- at least not right now.

The league's other commissioner (we have two to avoid conflicts of interest) has suggested converting our league to one where each team gets a salary cap and all players have notional contract values. These contracts would increase each year by a percentage (i.e. 10%). A team can keep his players as long as he remains under the cap. At some point, players become too expensive and you will have to trade them and their contract, or release the player into free agency. Once a free agent, the teams would bid for a player and the highest bidder would win. We all agree it may be time to take the league to a "higher level" -- if one exists.

I don't like change for change's sake, but if the more active owners are starting to lose interest and will eventually quit, then I'd rather find a way to improve the league than risk losing it altogether.

I would like to learn from other's experiences on how to structure the league. If anyone has a set of rules they think is particularly good, I would be grateful to receive a copy by PM.

Below are particular questions that occur to me in making this transition:

1. I think there needs to be a transition year to avoid penalizing the teams that have built strong rosters or accumulated extra draft picks. How should one structure this? Perhaps 2006 would be an uncapped year. After the draft, all players would be assigned a contract value by the commissioners using some reliable ranking source. Then by the following season, each team would have to get under the cap and all released players would go into the auction -- which would replace the traditional draft.

2. Do salary cap leagues increase player movement? Is player movement necessarily a good thing? I would think the cheap players (who turn out good) would never be traded or released since an owner can afford to keep them for a long time. Perhaps the top and most expensive players would move more, but I wonder about the lesser players. Thoughts?

3. Should there be a rule that you can only keep any player for, say, 3 years maximum? Doesn't that defeat the true nature of a keeper style league?

4. Do you still keep the rule that you can only keep 4 players at the end of each year, and each player released back into the player pool gets reauctioned? It seems you may want that rule or some teams might end up with too many players.

5. Or, should you let teams keep as many players as they can afford and let economics determine who gets released and when?

6. We're not committed to a salary cap structure yet. So any other way to improve on the kind of keeper league described above that keeps owners involved and interested would be welcomed.

Thanks in advance.

<<edited to add the little blue question mark icon>>

 

[Gotwald]

Our salary cap league is set up where the max length on a contract is four years. This is our fouth year and there has been a lot of player movement to cahnge the landscepe of the league. There has been a fair amount of change in who makes the playoffs.

Maybe you could give one year deals based off of each player

's performance last season to set this year's rosters. After those one year deals are set each owner could keep some players (4 maybe) to start a roster. Then the rest of the player would have to have their contracts bid one by the league.

Our league is also 12 members and each team is active. I feel it is a great combination of an auction and keeper league.

 

[Nemesis]

I was looking into starting a league like this last season and here are 2 thoughts:

1-I'd say keep the 4 keepers max rule......it'll be a nice carryover from your existing league and won't let the competitive balance get too far out of whack.

2-I'd make a Mininum amount that a player can be kept at. So, even if a player was acquired for next to nothing in the draft / FA , if that owner wants to designate him as a keeper his value would increase to "x" (you could decide that beforehand). That way, an owner that acquired him when he was a nobody would benefit, but that player wouldn't be able to be kept "forever".

 

[Loomba]

2-I'd make a Mininum amount that a player can be kept at. So, even if a player was acquired for next to nothing in the draft / FA , if that owner wants to designate him as a keeper his value would increase to "x" (you could decide that beforehand). That way, an owner that acquired him when he was a nobody would benefit, but that player wouldn't be able to be kept "forever".

This is an excellent suggestion that I will be incorporating. I also agree with the other suggestions around keeping no more than 4 players and max contract length of 4 years (economics will shorten how long you keep some guys I suspect).

Here's a question I meant to add to my list (that I can't believe I forgot):

In your experience, is a salary cap style keeper league MORE FUN than a "regular" style keeper league?

 

[GregR_2]

Here's a few thoughts and suggestions.

* Decide how you'll handle waivers. Will you use a hard cap and bid for free agents with your free cap room? Or will you only have the cap in effect for the off-season auction, and give people a pool of extra money to bid on free agents with?

* What happens to the contract of a player who is cut? Does it stay in effect and whoever wins him assume the contract? Or (if using a hard cap) does the winning bid become his new contract? (My league uses the latter with a hard cap... as a result we sometimes saw premier players hit waivers because the owner realized they were overpriced... so they cut them and then tried to pick them back up with a lower bid that replaced the original contract).

* What capability does your league's software have for running the various auctions/etc? My league changed our waivers slightly as we got more experience with what MFL could do.

* How are you going to handle rookies? Will they be obtained in the off-season auction? Or will you have a separate draft ala the NFL draft, to allow the last place teams the best chane to improve? And if you do this, what will you set those rookie salaries to?

Now if it were me, I don't think I would want salaries assigned to my players, and I could see it causing quite a bit of strife for your league. Should they be short term salaries, be based on long-term outlook, etc. I would have a "final" season with your current format before converting to the new format and then auction for scratch.

Or, if you really want to allow teams to have some sort of continuity, you could have all players auctioned off, but do some sort of franchise tag to give teams a chance to keep some of their players. Like allow each team to franchise 4 players. If they win the bids on those players they get them back at their bid price. If they lose them, the team who acquired them has to give up a rookie draft pick to them, or has 5% of their salary cap transferred for 1 season to the team who lost the player.

 

[Loomba]

Thanks GregR,

Very good points raised by you, particularly on how to transition to the new structure. That will be the key to the league as we do want to incorporate some level of continuity. I like the franchise tag idea, or some version of it. I'll have to think about that some more. I think I prefer a hard cap like your league that would also apply to rookies.

You also raise a good point about what to do about the teams that finish last and the rules that one might put in place to allow them to improve first. Some thought needs to go into that concept as those concerns are part of the reason some owners want to move to this new structure --they are finding it hard to get top players that are being held by the more savvy owners that traded for them at opportune times.

I agree that assigning values to all players could be a headache so again like your franchise tag idea -- it is reminiscent of the compensatory draft picks that NFL teams are awarded if they lose too many free agents. I think some rule(s) around this need to be incorporated to "smoothen" the transition.

Wonderful points to consider.

 

[GregR_2]

Sent you a PM, but had one other thought I felt was worth sharing with everyone.

If anyone in your league has no auction experience, I would require them to do a mock auction before participating in your first league auction. Don't just strongly urge it. Require it.

I don't think there are many people who can pick up proper late auction tactics without going through one first and seeing how things play out firsthand. There's no better way to learn than to run out of money early and watch how others manipulate things and get the cream of the crop.

Granted, I had an extreme case in my dynasty league. 1 owner (me) who had auction experience. 11 who were experienced FF owners, but had no auction experience and ignored my urging to go do some mocks first. Factor in a non-standard league setup making player values harder to figure by gut (as some of them did), and the resulting first auction of a dynasty league was really lopsided. Everyone way overspent, especially at RB which the new system de-valued compared to standard leagues. To the point that half of the league wants to wipe the rosters and start from scratch again this year, now that they have a better idea of how auctions work.

 

[Loomba]

All very good info gents. Thanks again.

Once we figure out how we are going to set this up and transition our league, I will post further details here for the benefit of anyone else that might be tackling (no pun intended...) this situation.

In the meantime, if anyone has a further two cents...

 

[FTRWRTR]

The only league I'm in that uses a salary cap is a dynasty league. For our cap we use contract years and they're based on multiples of 2. So for example I have Marion Barber who I got in fa last season and started him with an inttial contract of 1 year. I'm going to resign him so I have to sign him to an additional 2 years which will put him under a 3 year contract to my team. When his contracts comes up in 2009 I'll have to sign him to a 5 year deal(his original contract of 3 years plus 2 more years)

The thing that stimulates player movement in our league is that we each have a total of 60 years for our 22 player roster. Additionally each player's contract can only be maxed out to 5 years regardless of how long you've had him on your team. Also if you trade for a player you can keep a player's contract as is or u can extend it but you can't reduce it.

The thing I like most about using a salary cap is that you just can't take a flyer on a guy and really have to think about how much u want a player. For example last season I acquired charles rogers via trade but he's costing me 3 years so now I gotta decide if his potential is worth the 3 year hit to my cap or should I dump him before the season starts and get some cap relief(if I wait until the season starts his cap numbers will still count against me)

 

[Loomba]

Hi FTRWRTR,

The addition of a cap on the number of contract years is an interesting twist. That kind of idea could be really useful to encourage player movement, as opposed to having salaries bump up each season by a preset percentage.

cool.

 

[Snot Bubbler]

I'm hoping to convert my two leagues to an auction contract league. I'll post my preliminary league rules soon.

 

[LTsharks]

All very good info gents. Thanks again.

Once we figure out how we are going to set this up and transition our league, I will post further details here for the benefit of anyone else that might be tackling (no pun intended...) this situation.

In the meantime, if anyone has a further two cents...

I'm hoping to convert my two leagues to an auction contract league. I'll post my preliminary league rules soon.

Old bump here...Either of you decide on anythying yet? Our league is trying to work on a similar transition and I would be interested in seeing what you came up with.

 

[Snot Bubbler]

All very good info gents.  Thanks again.

Once we figure out how we are going to set this up and transition our league, I will post further details here for the benefit of anyone else that might be tackling (no pun intended...) this situation.

In the meantime, if anyone has a further two cents...

I'm hoping to convert my two leagues to an auction contract league.  I'll post my preliminary league rules soon.

Old bump here...Either of you decide on anythying yet? Our league is trying to work on a similar transition and I would be interested in seeing what you came up with.

I think I have the majority of the coaches convinced to switch to a contract league in one of my leagues. I haven't finalized any rules yet, but I convinced them using a modified version of this article by FBG Jeff Cline Establishing a Contract League. I'll try to post my modified version of that letter tonight.

 

[LTsharks]

All very good info gents.  Thanks again.

Once we figure out how we are going to set this up and transition our league, I will post further details here for the benefit of anyone else that might be tackling (no pun intended...) this situation.

In the meantime, if anyone has a further two cents...

I'm hoping to convert my two leagues to an auction contract league.  I'll post my preliminary league rules soon.

Old bump here...Either of you decide on anythying yet? Our league is trying to work on a similar transition and I would be interested in seeing what you came up with.

I think I have the majority of the coaches convinced to switch to a contract league in one of my leagues. I haven't finalized any rules yet, but I convinced them using a modified version of this article by FBG Jeff Cline Establishing a Contract League. I'll try to post my modified version of that letter tonight.

In that type of league how do you (or others who might have a similar set up) handle dropping someone who is under contract? The reason could be just for poor performance or a career ending injury. Do you have to keep them on your roster for the entire length of the deal? If they can be dropped, are there any penalties for dropping? I like the concept, but I'm unsure what the best way to handle that situation would be.

 

[Keg]

GMX-General Manager Xperience is a 16 Team IDP Salary Cap & Contract Dynasty League

I PMd you the link to the forum we use(rules etc are easier to read there)

 

[Keg]

All very good info gents. Thanks again.

Once we figure out how we are going to set this up and transition our league, I will post further details here for the benefit of anyone else that might be tackling (no pun intended...) this situation.

In the meantime, if anyone has a further two cents...

I'm hoping to convert my two leagues to an auction contract league. I'll post my preliminary league rules soon.

Old bump here...Either of you decide on anythying yet? Our league is trying to work on a similar transition and I would be interested in seeing what you came up with.

I think I have the majority of the coaches convinced to switch to a contract league in one of my leagues. I haven't finalized any rules yet, but I convinced them using a modified version of this article by FBG Jeff Cline Establishing a Contract League. I'll try to post my modified version of that letter tonight.

In that type of league how do you (or others who might have a similar set up) handle dropping someone who is under contract? The reason could be just for poor performance or a career ending injury. Do you have to keep them on your roster for the entire length of the deal? If they can be dropped, are there any penalties for dropping? I like the concept, but I'm unsure what the best way to handle that situation would be.

you can cut anyone at any given time in our league....but the penalties are assessed based on their salary and contract length

Contract Length.......Current.........2nd Year..3rd Year..4th Year..5th Year

.......1 year...........50% of salary.........--.............--.............--...........--

.......2 years..........50% of salary.......40%..........--.............--...........--

.......3 years..........50% of salary.......40%.........30%.........--............--

.......4 years..........50% of salary.......40%.........30%........20%........--

.......5 years..........50% of salary.......40%.........30%........20%.......10%

say you have Priest Holmes at 6yrs and a Salary of $1000you get 4 yrs of cap hits

YR1=$500

YR2=$400

YR3=$300

YR4=$200

YR5=$100

YR6=NO CAP HIT(we figure 5yrs is enough of a hit)

 

[nelly29]

In my auction keeper league that I comish here are a few of the tricks we use to keep players moving and still allow teams to keep players from year to year to keep a "team" feel.

12 team 20 player roster 150 mil cap

Minimum price to keep any player is 5 mil....this makes sure players cant be kept for ever...

Salary increase by 20% second year 40% third year 80% fourth year 160% year 5

High % increases are the key to keep league active I think

A Player like LJ who was drafted for lets say 3 mil 2 years ago as a rookie, his salary would break down like this:

1st year 3 mil

2nd year 6 mil (5 mil minimum plus 20%)

3rd year 9 mil

4th year 17 mil

5th year 45 mil

6th year = back in draft as salary would go through to roof

This rewards players who are patient enough to keep a few rookies on their roster looking for the diamond in the ruff ala LJ.

This also keeps the star players that are easy to draft like LT going back into the draft after 2 years on someones roster at the most.

1st year 39 mil

2nd year 47 mil

3rd year = back in draft as salary would go through the roof

If you cut a player during the season the player keeps his salary the rest of the season and you only get half of his cap value back to spend...this keeps guys from dropping players every week looking for the flavour of the month..makes one think a bit before add/ drops

Bid for free agents are done on our message board and 48 hours after a bid is made if no one else has bid the player can be picked up...this makes players think ahead as you cant just go grab a fill player on Saturday...you better have a deep roster and know your bye weeks...sometimes a player can be bid on for over a week before he is able to be picked up (ex Marion Barbers last year)

Due to salary cap most trades in out league are 2 for 2 or 3 for 3 to make cap numbers closer...some are 1 for 1 but most are multi player deals

If you are going to switch to an auction from a keeper put all players back into the draft...don't give them arbitrary values set by the comish this is asking for trouble...just let them bid out and let the owner last year have the option of taking any of his 5 keeper players on his roster for his auction value. So if you had Manning last year, during the auction you would not bid on him but, after he is bid on and his salary is set at lets say 33 mil .. the original owner would have the option of having Manning at that price or let him go to his new owner. This lets the market determine the players value and the original owner still has the option of keeping him.

These are a few trick of many we use in our league hope it helps