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Scoring for first downs (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Luke Skywalker
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Luke Skywalker

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Got in a discussion with some other league members about revamping our scoring for next year; someone suggested that we give scoring for first downs by position players (not QB's).

It sounds like a cool idea, just wondering if anybody is doing this and if there's a service that tracks it.

 
I wonder how much it would really affect relative values and game outcomes. Maybe a slight downgrade for QBs and a bump for the elite every-down backs? I guess if you're looking for "something new" that won't really have an appreciable impact on strategy then why not. On the other hand you could say whats the point of adding something that doesn't change how you draft/trade/set your lineup.

 
If this was a stat that had some history, I could see using it in place of PPR. The first down stat is more meaningful in the real game, so this could eliminate some of the complaints of PPR scoring.

However, I don't expect it would greatly change the value of players when comparing it to PPR scoring. Its possible you may moderately bump some short yardage RBs, but I would expect high reception receivers to continue to have a bump in this scoring system, was well as the bump you get from 3rd down type backs.

I would be interested to see a 2-4 year history of 1st downs by position, to see if my gut feel is in the ballpark. I just don't see that stat as compiled by most league management systems.

 
I wonder how much it would really affect relative values and game outcomes. Maybe a slight downgrade for QBs and a bump for the elite every-down backs? I guess if you're looking for "something new" that won't really have an appreciable impact on strategy then why not. On the other hand you could say whats the point of adding something that doesn't change how you draft/trade/set your lineup.
My guess is it would even out things a little bit in leagues where QB's skew high (such as mine). I really like the idea, but my concern is it turns guys like Welker waaaaaay too much value in a PPR league. As a substitute for PPR, I really like it.
 
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Why would a first down reception be worth more than a 1st down run? QB should be able to get the 1st down reward if they scramble (or catch?!?!) for a first down.

 
If this was a stat that had some history, I could see using it in place of PPR. The first down stat is more meaningful in the real game, so this could eliminate some of the complaints of PPR scoring. However, I don't expect it would greatly change the value of players when comparing it to PPR scoring. Its possible you may moderately bump some short yardage RBs, but I would expect high reception receivers to continue to have a bump in this scoring system, was well as the bump you get from 3rd down type backs. I would be interested to see a 2-4 year history of 1st downs by position, to see if my gut feel is in the ballpark. I just don't see that stat as compiled by most league management systems.
I like it more than PPR, just because something like a guy that catches a bunch of bubble screens (pierre garcon anyone?) for -2 yards don't net +.8 points on the play.
 
Why would a first down reception be worth more than a 1st down run? QB should be able to get the 1st down reward if they scramble (or catch?!?!) for a first down.
A first down catch wouldn't be worth more than a run unless it was a PPR league (although obviously a 10-yard catch for a first down would be worth more than a 4-yard run for a first down). I think we're looking at it as a substitute for PPR though.This is still a very rough idea but I would imagine runs and receptions by QB's would count, just not passes.
 
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my league gives 0.5 per first down rush. we created this category a few years ago to balance out the PPR and 6pt TDs for QBs.
This is interesting...I'm in a 6 pt. TD league too and QBs have become way too valuable. This would even things out a little bit for every position, although I suppose puts even more of a premium on every-down backs who also catch lots of passes.
 
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This has been discussed in detail before (maybe a year ago). If FBG's search system didn't change for the worse I would of found it for you.

 
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Our league switched to first down scoring this season. We like it a lot so far. The 1st downs are weighted based on how they were achieved - not by position:

Rushing 1st: 0.8571

Receiving 1st: 1.2

Passing 1st: 0.3

I won't get into too much detail about where the numbers come from at this point, but a great deal of effort went into balancing the scoring in a way that "made sense" on the field - each one is rewarded at 10x the value of a yard achieved the same way (i.e. 10 yards = a first down).

We use MFL, and it tracks this scoring method - even in live scoring.

 
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I've been running a league that has used 1st down receptions in lieu of PPR.

We like as a better value driver. For most WR's the ratio is closer to 70% of receptions are 1st down receptions.

Eliminates the 2 yard passes that don't move the chains. Also much more fairly values a player like Darren Sproles.

 
Other ideas to award bonus points:

+ for consecutive carries or catches.

+ for red zone and/or goalline carries or catches.

+ for converting a 3rd down (note this is different than just getting a first down)

+ for converting a fourth down (again different than just a first down)

 
Our league switched to first down scoring this season. We like it a lot so far. The 1st downs are weighted based on how they were achieved - not by position:Rushing 1st: 0.8571Receiving 1st: 1.2Passing 1st: 0.3I won't get into too much detail about where the numbers come from at this point, but a great deal of effort went into balancing the scoring in a way that "made sense" on the field - each one is rewarded at 10x the value of a yard achieved the same way (i.e. 10 yards = a first down).We use MFL, and it tracks this scoring method - even in live scoring.
I'm in a league that is having a "to PPR or not to PPR" debate and I think first downs could be a good compromise. Using my awesome-o commish powers I noticed that MFL lets you either score all first downs the same or separate it out into rushing, receiving and passing as you have. I appreciate your restraint in not going into detail, but if you don't mind explaining/expanding I'm very interested. 0.8571 is an intriguing number. :popcorn:
 
Bump.

For those that use scoring for a first down, do you count touchdowns as first downs? Does it make scoring weird if touchdowns are essentially worth 7 points?

Jersey35, I, too, would like to know the logic behind your scoring system

 
Our league switched to first down scoring this season. We like it a lot so far. The 1st downs are weighted based on how they were achieved - not by position:Rushing 1st: 0.8571Receiving 1st: 1.2Passing 1st: 0.3I won't get into too much detail about where the numbers come from at this point, but a great deal of effort went into balancing the scoring in a way that "made sense" on the field - each one is rewarded at 10x the value of a yard achieved the same way (i.e. 10 yards = a first down).We use MFL, and it tracks this scoring method - even in live scoring.
I'm in a league that is having a "to PPR or not to PPR" debate and I think first downs could be a good compromise. Using my awesome-o commish powers I noticed that MFL lets you either score all first downs the same or separate it out into rushing, receiving and passing as you have. I appreciate your restraint in not going into detail, but if you don't mind explaining/expanding I'm very interested. 0.8571 is an intriguing number. :popcorn:
Sorry I missed the requests for the logic behind our scoring. I'll try to keep this as concise as possible: 1) All scoring is driven by the value of a TD (6pts) 2) We chose to determine our rushing values 1st and base other scoring around that standard - using the argument that a run is the "simplest" football play. 3) Average field position NFL was about the 28yd line at the time, we rounded to the 30 yard line and established that carrying the ball from a team's starting field position to the goal line was worth exactly as much as the act of punching it in for the TD. 6pts. 6/70 = .08571/yd 4) From there, we decided that rushing first downs naturally had the same value as 10 yards (.8571) Once we felt comfortable with these numbers, we moved on to passing and receiving values, essentially tweaking the base yardage value until we came up with numbers that felt right. Ultimately we settled upon: 6pts per 200yds pass, 70yds rush, 50yds rec, 80yds kickret, and 70yds puntret.First down scoring then fell right into line: 6pts per 20 first downs passing, 7 rushing, and 5 receiving.We then ran the numbers for the previous season to see if we had reasonable balance between positions - scores not unreasonably elevating one position over another - and were satisfied. If anything I've listed isn't clear, I'll be happy to reiterate.We've been quite happy with the results this season and will not likely make any changes for the upcoming season.
 

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