SERIAL podcast season 2 - Bowe Bergdahl: hero, deserter, both? (1 Viewer)

[satch]

I really liked the first episode. I'm not sure why so many think it won't be interesting.

A US soldier leaves his post in Afghanistan to wander through the desert either because he's a traitor or he's genuinely trying to out some corrupt/bad bosses. He gets captured for 5 years, then returned, leaving everyone to wonder if he's a hero or treasonous scum.

On the surface, it has far more potential than last year's, which was a basic whoodunnit that Sarah milked for everything it was worth. This story could have even more to work with.

I think there is less grey area with this story, making it less interesting to start with.

This entire story is grey area.

Even if what seems to be the case now remains clearly the case at the end (that he's a traitor/was running), I'm still plenty interested to figure out why he might have.

Isn't the only grey area the truth about his motivation for leaving? Seems like the rest is known.

Not even sure the truth about his motivation for leaving warrants "grey area" designation. His story sounds like just that, a story he made up to try to reduce his punishment for deserting.

 

[pollardsvision]

Different strokes, I guess. US Soldier deserts his Afghani post for whatever reason and gets snatched up by the Taliban (or he joined willingly) and held for 5 years, after which the POTUS gives a weird speech announcing him a hero (a year before he goes on trial facing a life sentence).

Finding some answers about what the hell really happened in this odd turn of events sounds interesting to me.

More importantly, Koenig turned a basic Lifetime movie plot into must-listen weekly podcasting last year. I think she'll make this one worth a listen.

 

[Righetti]

Different strokes, I guess. US Soldier deserts his Afghani post for whatever reason and gets snatched up by the Taliban (or he joined willingly) and held for 5 years, after which the POTUS gives a weird speech announcing him a hero (a year before he goes on trial facing a life sentence).

Finding some answers about what the hell really happened in this odd turn of events sounds interesting to me.

More importantly, Koenig turned a basic Lifetime movie plot into must-listen weekly podcasting last year. I think she'll make this one worth a listen.

Agreed

 

[satch]

Different strokes, I guess. US Soldier deserts his Afghani post for whatever reason and gets snatched up by the Taliban (or he joined willingly) and held for 5 years, after which the POTUS gives a weird speech announcing him a hero (a year before he goes on trial facing a life sentence).

Finding some answers about what the hell really happened in this odd turn of events sounds interesting to me.

More importantly, Koenig turned a basic Lifetime movie plot into must-listen weekly podcasting last year. I think she'll make this one worth a listen.

Agreed

I agree as well. It is interesting and I'm looking forward to listening. I just view it as the story of a soldier who abandoned his company, got captured, and then lied about what happened to avoid punishment, as opposed to a mystery, or grey area, of any kind. At this point I don't think he intended to join the taliban. I think he thought he could escape his awful military life and blend into the community he'd befriended, then figure it out from there. Just an ignorant, naive, scared kid who thought joining the military was going to be a lot cooler than it turned out to be.The part about the President's hero speech is an embarrassment to the President, and clearly an attempt to make himself look great for "bringing a hero home". He brought a deserter home, whose selfish actions caused American soldiers to die in exchange for multiple terrorists who are likely plotting to kill additional Americans at this very moment. Good job Pres!

 

[whoknew]

Different strokes, I guess. US Soldier deserts his Afghani post for whatever reason and gets snatched up by the Taliban (or he joined willingly) and held for 5 years, after which the POTUS gives a weird speech announcing him a hero (a year before he goes on trial facing a life sentence).

Finding some answers about what the hell really happened in this odd turn of events sounds interesting to me.

More importantly, Koenig turned a basic Lifetime movie plot into must-listen weekly podcasting last year. I think she'll make this one worth a listen.

Agreed

I agree as well. It is interesting and I'm looking forward to listening. I just view it as the story of a soldier who abandoned his company, got captured, and then lied about what happened to avoid punishment, as opposed to a mystery, or grey area, of any kind. At this point I don't think he intended to join the taliban. I think he thought he could escape his awful military life and blend into the community he'd befriended, then figure it out from there. Just an ignorant, naive, scared kid who thought joining the military was going to be a lot cooler than it turned out to be.

If that were true, why in the hell would they be devoting an entire season on Serial to it?

It seems like many have forgotten what Serial season 1 was like. Every damn week there are plot twists and more information. Its one of the reasons it was so captivating. To assume that this case will be straightforward after what we experienced in season 1 seems ... strange.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Different strokes, I guess. US Soldier deserts his Afghani post for whatever reason and gets snatched up by the Taliban (or he joined willingly) and held for 5 years, after which the POTUS gives a weird speech announcing him a hero (a year before he goes on trial facing a life sentence).

Finding some answers about what the hell really happened in this odd turn of events sounds interesting to me.

More importantly, Koenig turned a basic Lifetime movie plot into must-listen weekly podcasting last year. I think she'll make this one worth a listen.

Agreed

I agree as well. It is interesting and I'm looking forward to listening. I just view it as the story of a soldier who abandoned his company, got captured, and then lied about what happened to avoid punishment, as opposed to a mystery, or grey area, of any kind. At this point I don't think he intended to join the taliban. I think he thought he could escape his awful military life and blend into the community he'd befriended, then figure it out from there. Just an ignorant, naive, scared kid who thought joining the military was going to be a lot cooler than it turned out to be.The part about the President's hero speech is an embarrassment to the President, and clearly an attempt to make himself look great for "bringing a hero home". He brought a deserter home, whose selfish actions caused American soldiers to die in exchange for multiple terrorists who are likely plotting to kill additional Americans at this very moment. Good job Pres!

I know I'm probably asking the impossible here, but it would be super awesome if we could try to keep the partisan garbage in this thread to a minimum. There's like 50 threads you can use to whine about Obummer and the libtards without derailing what is likely to be an interesting discussion of this case.

 

[FUBAR]

Different strokes, I guess. US Soldier deserts his Afghani post for whatever reason and gets snatched up by the Taliban (or he joined willingly) and held for 5 years, after which the POTUS gives a weird speech announcing him a hero (a year before he goes on trial facing a life sentence).

Finding some answers about what the hell really happened in this odd turn of events sounds interesting to me.

More importantly, Koenig turned a basic Lifetime movie plot into must-listen weekly podcasting last year. I think she'll make this one worth a listen.

Agreed

I agree as well. It is interesting and I'm looking forward to listening. I just view it as the story of a soldier who abandoned his company, got captured, and then lied about what happened to avoid punishment, as opposed to a mystery, or grey area, of any kind. At this point I don't think he intended to join the taliban. I think he thought he could escape his awful military life and blend into the community he'd befriended, then figure it out from there. Just an ignorant, naive, scared kid who thought joining the military was going to be a lot cooler than it turned out to be.

If that were true, why in the hell would they be devoting an entire season on Serial to it?

It seems like many have forgotten what Serial season 1 was like. Every damn week there are plot twists and more information. Its one of the reasons it was so captivating. To assume that this case will be straightforward after what we experienced in season 1 seems ... strange.

The problem here might just be the media coverage. This case and the trade has been covered so much already that many people think they know what happened. Frankly, they don't. There are a lot of unknowns here. That some of the information is limited to Bergdahl himself and the Taliban members seems problematic, but if she can get interviews with his captors and they're forthcoming (I'm sure they'll look forward to talking to an American woman), it would be fascinating.

 

[satch]

Different strokes, I guess. US Soldier deserts his Afghani post for whatever reason and gets snatched up by the Taliban (or he joined willingly) and held for 5 years, after which the POTUS gives a weird speech announcing him a hero (a year before he goes on trial facing a life sentence).

Finding some answers about what the hell really happened in this odd turn of events sounds interesting to me.

More importantly, Koenig turned a basic Lifetime movie plot into must-listen weekly podcasting last year. I think she'll make this one worth a listen.

Agreed

I agree as well. It is interesting and I'm looking forward to listening. I just view it as the story of a soldier who abandoned his company, got captured, and then lied about what happened to avoid punishment, as opposed to a mystery, or grey area, of any kind. At this point I don't think he intended to join the taliban. I think he thought he could escape his awful military life and blend into the community he'd befriended, then figure it out from there. Just an ignorant, naive, scared kid who thought joining the military was going to be a lot cooler than it turned out to be.The part about the President's hero speech is an embarrassment to the President, and clearly an attempt to make himself look great for "bringing a hero home". He brought a deserter home, whose selfish actions caused American soldiers to die in exchange for multiple terrorists who are likely plotting to kill additional Americans at this very moment. Good job Pres!

I know I'm probably asking the impossible here, but it would be super awesome if we could try to keep the partisan garbage in this thread to a minimum. There's like 50 threads you can use to whine about Obummer and the libtards without derailing what is likely to be an interesting discussion of this case.

Normally I'd agree, but Obama is part of this story. In fact, Bergdahl's defense attorney is reportedly threatening to call Obama as a witness.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Different strokes, I guess. US Soldier deserts his Afghani post for whatever reason and gets snatched up by the Taliban (or he joined willingly) and held for 5 years, after which the POTUS gives a weird speech announcing him a hero (a year before he goes on trial facing a life sentence).

Finding some answers about what the hell really happened in this odd turn of events sounds interesting to me.

More importantly, Koenig turned a basic Lifetime movie plot into must-listen weekly podcasting last year. I think she'll make this one worth a listen.

Agreed

I agree as well. It is interesting and I'm looking forward to listening. I just view it as the story of a soldier who abandoned his company, got captured, and then lied about what happened to avoid punishment, as opposed to a mystery, or grey area, of any kind. At this point I don't think he intended to join the taliban. I think he thought he could escape his awful military life and blend into the community he'd befriended, then figure it out from there. Just an ignorant, naive, scared kid who thought joining the military was going to be a lot cooler than it turned out to be.The part about the President's hero speech is an embarrassment to the President, and clearly an attempt to make himself look great for "bringing a hero home". He brought a deserter home, whose selfish actions caused American soldiers to die in exchange for multiple terrorists who are likely plotting to kill additional Americans at this very moment. Good job Pres!

I know I'm probably asking the impossible here, but it would be super awesome if we could try to keep the partisan garbage in this thread to a minimum. There's like 50 threads you can use to whine about Obummer and the libtards without derailing what is likely to be an interesting discussion of this case.

Normally I'd agree, but Obama is part of this story. In fact, Bergdahl's defense attorney is reportedly threatening to call Obama as a witness.

He will be, but he hasn't been yet- the press conference was mentioned only in the intro and hasn't been the subject of analysis yet. And the tone of your post doesn't really strike me as someone who's looking to keep partisanship out of the discussion if at all possible. Anyway, I realize I was probably asking for the impossible, but no harm in asking

 

[satch]

Different strokes, I guess. US Soldier deserts his Afghani post for whatever reason and gets snatched up by the Taliban (or he joined willingly) and held for 5 years, after which the POTUS gives a weird speech announcing him a hero (a year before he goes on trial facing a life sentence).

Finding some answers about what the hell really happened in this odd turn of events sounds interesting to me.

More importantly, Koenig turned a basic Lifetime movie plot into must-listen weekly podcasting last year. I think she'll make this one worth a listen.

Agreed

I agree as well. It is interesting and I'm looking forward to listening. I just view it as the story of a soldier who abandoned his company, got captured, and then lied about what happened to avoid punishment, as opposed to a mystery, or grey area, of any kind. At this point I don't think he intended to join the taliban. I think he thought he could escape his awful military life and blend into the community he'd befriended, then figure it out from there. Just an ignorant, naive, scared kid who thought joining the military was going to be a lot cooler than it turned out to be.The part about the President's hero speech is an embarrassment to the President, and clearly an attempt to make himself look great for "bringing a hero home". He brought a deserter home, whose selfish actions caused American soldiers to die in exchange for multiple terrorists who are likely plotting to kill additional Americans at this very moment. Good job Pres!

I know I'm probably asking the impossible here, but it would be super awesome if we could try to keep the partisan garbage in this thread to a minimum. There's like 50 threads you can use to whine about Obummer and the libtards without derailing what is likely to be an interesting discussion of this case.

Normally I'd agree, but Obama is part of this story. In fact, Bergdahl's defense attorney is reportedly threatening to call Obama as a witness.

He will be, but he hasn't been yet- the press conference was mentioned only in the intro and hasn't been the subject of analysis yet. And the tone of your post doesn't really strike me as someone who's looking to keep partisanship out of the discussion if at all possible. Anyway, I realize I was probably asking for the impossible, but no harm in asking

No, you were right. I'm very frustrated with our President right now but this thread isn't about that, generally speaking. I'll try to keep any references to that kind of stuff on topic without the jabs.

 

[FUBAR]

Episode 2 is out.

https://serialpodcast.org/

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

Hero?

https://youtu.be/fEZQwg1dceI

This was an embarrassment for the Obama administration and I said so at the time. Bringing the guy back to stand trial -- fine. But that announcement in the Rose Garden was awful.

One Shining Moment

 

[shader]

I just don't get this season. I mean, anyone who has followed this story remotely knows all the basic facts. I don't know that learning a lot of additional details does much for me?

2 episodes in, and I'll probably listen just because it's something to listen to while I walk, but seems like a horrible choice to me from the Serial producers.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Episode 2 pretty blah. I mean, the big mystery this week is if he was found in a tent or out in the open?

 

[Mr. Pickles]

I just don't get this season. I mean, anyone who has followed this story remotely knows all the basic facts. I don't know that learning a lot of additional details does much for me?

2 episodes in, and I'll probably listen just because it's something to listen to while I walk, but seems like a horrible choice to me from the Serial producers.

BUT SHE CALLED THE TALIBAN!!

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Different strokes, I guess. US Soldier deserts his Afghani post for whatever reason and gets snatched up by the Taliban (or he joined willingly) and held for 5 years, after which the POTUS gives a weird speech announcing him a hero (a year before he goes on trial facing a life sentence).

Finding some answers about what the hell really happened in this odd turn of events sounds interesting to me.

More importantly, Koenig turned a basic Lifetime movie plot into must-listen weekly podcasting last year. I think she'll make this one worth a listen.

Agreed

I agree as well. It is interesting and I'm looking forward to listening. I just view it as the story of a soldier who abandoned his company, got captured, and then lied about what happened to avoid punishment, as opposed to a mystery, or grey area, of any kind. At this point I don't think he intended to join the taliban. I think he thought he could escape his awful military life and blend into the community he'd befriended, then figure it out from there. Just an ignorant, naive, scared kid who thought joining the military was going to be a lot cooler than it turned out to be.The part about the President's hero speech is an embarrassment to the President, and clearly an attempt to make himself look great for "bringing a hero home". He brought a deserter home, whose selfish actions caused American soldiers to die in exchange for multiple terrorists who are likely plotting to kill additional Americans at this very moment. Good job Pres!

I know I'm probably asking the impossible here, but it would be super awesome if we could try to keep the partisan garbage in this thread to a minimum. There's like 50 threads you can use to whine about Obummer and the libtards without derailing what is likely to be an interesting discussion of this case.

Normally I'd agree, but Obama is part of this story. In fact, Bergdahl's defense attorney is reportedly threatening to call Obama as a witness.

- That idea was shot down in Blagojevich's trial.

 

[Don Quixote]

I'm enjoying this season, but it's a different type of show. It's not about drilling into the ambiguities like last season (such as whether he was found in the tent or out in the open). This season is more of a long read in podcast format. I thought it was interesting to listen to the soldiers talking about the search, and speculating as to whether Bowe would have been killed if they found him. YMMV.

 

[wilked]

Same as Shader. Might listen as alternative is music in the car, but nothing pulling me in at the moment

 

[fasteddie_21]

Her reaction to why the soldiers may have shot him themselves if they found him was terrible. :X

 

[bigmarc27]

Her reaction to why the soldiers may have shot him themselves if they found him was terrible. :X

It's basically a modern day Saving Private Ryan.

I'm not sure what she thought their response would be. He decided to walk off base, that puts hundreds of men into very dangerous positions searching for him for weeks at a time. Did she somehow think they'd all be ok with it? She seems very insulated to real world dangers. Hell, I'm far removed from real world dangers but the soldiers had the exact response I would expect.

 

[RUSF18]

Her reaction to why the soldiers may have shot him themselves if they found him was terrible. :X

It's basically a modern day Saving Private Ryan.

I'm not sure what she thought their response would be. He decided to walk off base, that puts hundreds of men into very dangerous positions searching for him for weeks at a time. Did she somehow think they'd all be ok with it? She seems very insulated to real world dangers. Hell, I'm far removed from real world dangers but the soldiers had the exact response I would expect.

How about the fact that she said to the audience something like "I'm sure you're thinking 'they should suck it up, they're soldiers, they know what they signed up for'" after describing what it was like to be searching for him for 19 days with no real food, no showers, carrying 100 lbs of equipment, spooning with each other at night to stay warm, one guy having shat his pants and still wearing them because he couldn't wear his ripped pants around the local women...

What kind of psychopath would actually have thought that about those soldiers?

 

[bigmarc27]

Her reaction to why the soldiers may have shot him themselves if they found him was terrible. :X

It's basically a modern day Saving Private Ryan.

I'm not sure what she thought their response would be. He decided to walk off base, that puts hundreds of men into very dangerous positions searching for him for weeks at a time. Did she somehow think they'd all be ok with it? She seems very insulated to real world dangers. Hell, I'm far removed from real world dangers but the soldiers had the exact response I would expect.

How about the fact that she said to the audience something like "I'm sure you're thinking 'they should suck it up, they're soldiers, they know what they signed up for'" after describing what it was like to be searching for him for 19 days with no real food, no showers, carrying 100 lbs of equipment, spooning with each other at night to stay warm, one guy having shat his pants and still wearing them because he couldn't wear his ripped pants around the local women...What kind of psychopath would actually have thought that about those soldiers?

Yeah. I don't remember where babysitting someone who walked off base fell in the job description. My wife and I listed to it last night in the car and we both were kind of taken aback my her reaction. I'll preface it by saying I'm not from a military family and don't really get swept up in a lot of the pageantry and whatnot, but I also don't go around with a "they signed up, that's what they deserve" mentality. I didn't really think anyone did.

 

[fasteddie_21]

Her reaction to why the soldiers may have shot him themselves if they found him was terrible. :X

It's basically a modern day Saving Private Ryan.

I'm not sure what she thought their response would be. He decided to walk off base, that puts hundreds of men into very dangerous positions searching for him for weeks at a time. Did she somehow think they'd all be ok with it? She seems very insulated to real world dangers. Hell, I'm far removed from real world dangers but the soldiers had the exact response I would expect.

How about the fact that she said to the audience something like "I'm sure you're thinking 'they should suck it up, they're soldiers, they know what they signed up for'" after describing what it was like to be searching for him for 19 days with no real food, no showers, carrying 100 lbs of equipment, spooning with each other at night to stay warm, one guy having shat his pants and still wearing them because he couldn't wear his ripped pants around the local women...What kind of psychopath would actually have thought that about those soldiers?

Yeah. I don't remember where babysitting someone who walked off base fell in the job description. My wife and I listed to it last night in the car and we both were kind of taken aback my her reaction. I'll preface it by saying I'm not from a military family and don't really get swept up in a lot of the pageantry and whatnot, but I also don't go around with a "they signed up, that's what they deserve" mentality. I didn't really think anyone did.

Yeah, as a Marine, this last episode really pissed me off. She really came off as a Molly-coddled college activist. Grrrr.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Her reaction to why the soldiers may have shot him themselves if they found him was terrible. :X

It's basically a modern day Saving Private Ryan.

I'm not sure what she thought their response would be. He decided to walk off base, that puts hundreds of men into very dangerous positions searching for him for weeks at a time. Did she somehow think they'd all be ok with it? She seems very insulated to real world dangers. Hell, I'm far removed from real world dangers but the soldiers had the exact response I would expect.

How about the fact that she said to the audience something like "I'm sure you're thinking 'they should suck it up, they're soldiers, they know what they signed up for'" after describing what it was like to be searching for him for 19 days with no real food, no showers, carrying 100 lbs of equipment, spooning with each other at night to stay warm, one guy having shat his pants and still wearing them because he couldn't wear his ripped pants around the local women...

What kind of psychopath would actually have thought that about those soldiers?

I'm not 100% sure but I don't really remember her saying that. I think it was more "you may be thinking ..." than "I'm sure you're thinking ...". Still, I remember thinking "I wasn't thinking that at all, why would anyone, what are you talking about?" Although in her defense I think it was just an awkward segueway.

FWIW I don't have a military background and I didn't follow the story closely when it broke, and I came away from the episode with nothing but sympathy for the soldiers, anger at Bergdahl and questions about why we would even asked them to go to these lengths during the search.

 

[whoknew]

Her reaction to why the soldiers may have shot him themselves if they found him was terrible. :X

It's basically a modern day Saving Private Ryan.

I'm not sure what she thought their response would be. He decided to walk off base, that puts hundreds of men into very dangerous positions searching for him for weeks at a time. Did she somehow think they'd all be ok with it? She seems very insulated to real world dangers. Hell, I'm far removed from real world dangers but the soldiers had the exact response I would expect.

How about the fact that she said to the audience something like "I'm sure you're thinking 'they should suck it up, they're soldiers, they know what they signed up for'" after describing what it was like to be searching for him for 19 days with no real food, no showers, carrying 100 lbs of equipment, spooning with each other at night to stay warm, one guy having shat his pants and still wearing them because he couldn't wear his ripped pants around the local women...

What kind of psychopath would actually have thought that about those soldiers?

I'm not 100% sure but I don't really remember her saying that. I think it was more "you may be thinking ..." than "I'm sure you're thinking ...". Still, I remember thinking "I wasn't thinking that at all, why would anyone, what are you talking about?" Although in her defense I think it was just an awkward segueway.

FWIW I don't have a military background and I didn't follow the story closely when it broke, and I came away from the episode with nothing but sympathy for the soldiers, anger at Bergdahl and questions about why we would even asked them to go to these lengths during the search.

I agree with this completely - right up to the part where they said they would have killed him if they found him. That surprised me and - well, I mean. Its not good. It lowered my sympathy a little for the soldiers.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Her reaction to why the soldiers may have shot him themselves if they found him was terrible. :X

It's basically a modern day Saving Private Ryan.

I'm not sure what she thought their response would be. He decided to walk off base, that puts hundreds of men into very dangerous positions searching for him for weeks at a time. Did she somehow think they'd all be ok with it? She seems very insulated to real world dangers. Hell, I'm far removed from real world dangers but the soldiers had the exact response I would expect.

How about the fact that she said to the audience something like "I'm sure you're thinking 'they should suck it up, they're soldiers, they know what they signed up for'" after describing what it was like to be searching for him for 19 days with no real food, no showers, carrying 100 lbs of equipment, spooning with each other at night to stay warm, one guy having shat his pants and still wearing them because he couldn't wear his ripped pants around the local women...

What kind of psychopath would actually have thought that about those soldiers?

I'm not 100% sure but I don't really remember her saying that. I think it was more "you may be thinking ..." than "I'm sure you're thinking ...". Still, I remember thinking "I wasn't thinking that at all, why would anyone, what are you talking about?" Although in her defense I think it was just an awkward segueway.

FWIW I don't have a military background and I didn't follow the story closely when it broke, and I came away from the episode with nothing but sympathy for the soldiers, anger at Bergdahl and questions about why we would even asked them to go to these lengths during the search.

I agree with this completely - right up to the part where they said they would have killed him if they found him. That surprised me and - well, I mean. Its not good. It lowered my sympathy a little for the soldiers.

I guess I assumed they were taking some dramatic license to express their understandable anger towards him.

 

[whoknew]

Her reaction to why the soldiers may have shot him themselves if they found him was terrible. :X

It's basically a modern day Saving Private Ryan.

I'm not sure what she thought their response would be. He decided to walk off base, that puts hundreds of men into very dangerous positions searching for him for weeks at a time. Did she somehow think they'd all be ok with it? She seems very insulated to real world dangers. Hell, I'm far removed from real world dangers but the soldiers had the exact response I would expect.

How about the fact that she said to the audience something like "I'm sure you're thinking 'they should suck it up, they're soldiers, they know what they signed up for'" after describing what it was like to be searching for him for 19 days with no real food, no showers, carrying 100 lbs of equipment, spooning with each other at night to stay warm, one guy having shat his pants and still wearing them because he couldn't wear his ripped pants around the local women...

What kind of psychopath would actually have thought that about those soldiers?

I'm not 100% sure but I don't really remember her saying that. I think it was more "you may be thinking ..." than "I'm sure you're thinking ...". Still, I remember thinking "I wasn't thinking that at all, why would anyone, what are you talking about?" Although in her defense I think it was just an awkward segueway.

FWIW I don't have a military background and I didn't follow the story closely when it broke, and I came away from the episode with nothing but sympathy for the soldiers, anger at Bergdahl and questions about why we would even asked them to go to these lengths during the search.

I agree with this completely - right up to the part where they said they would have killed him if they found him. That surprised me and - well, I mean. Its not good. It lowered my sympathy a little for the soldiers.

I guess I assumed they were taking some dramatic license to express their understandable anger towards him.

Right - except she actually asked them if they were just saying that or if they meant it. And both guys said asked said they meant it.

If I'm wrong and they were just saying that like people say it all the time ("I'm going to kill my husband if he forgets the milk"), then my bad. But that wasn't the impression I got.

 

[FUBAR]

Her reaction to why the soldiers may have shot him themselves if they found him was terrible. :X

It's basically a modern day Saving Private Ryan.

I'm not sure what she thought their response would be. He decided to walk off base, that puts hundreds of men into very dangerous positions searching for him for weeks at a time. Did she somehow think they'd all be ok with it? She seems very insulated to real world dangers. Hell, I'm far removed from real world dangers but the soldiers had the exact response I would expect.

How about the fact that she said to the audience something like "I'm sure you're thinking 'they should suck it up, they're soldiers, they know what they signed up for'" after describing what it was like to be searching for him for 19 days with no real food, no showers, carrying 100 lbs of equipment, spooning with each other at night to stay warm, one guy having shat his pants and still wearing them because he couldn't wear his ripped pants around the local women...

What kind of psychopath would actually have thought that about those soldiers?

I'm not 100% sure but I don't really remember her saying that. I think it was more "you may be thinking ..." than "I'm sure you're thinking ...". Still, I remember thinking "I wasn't thinking that at all, why would anyone, what are you talking about?" Although in her defense I think it was just an awkward segueway.

FWIW I don't have a military background and I didn't follow the story closely when it broke, and I came away from the episode with nothing but sympathy for the soldiers, anger at Bergdahl and questions about why we would even asked them to go to these lengths during the search.

agreed. and yes, there are many people both in and out of uniform who think they should suck it up as Soldiers.

 

[FUBAR]

Her reaction to why the soldiers may have shot him themselves if they found him was terrible. :X

It's basically a modern day Saving Private Ryan.

I'm not sure what she thought their response would be. He decided to walk off base, that puts hundreds of men into very dangerous positions searching for him for weeks at a time. Did she somehow think they'd all be ok with it? She seems very insulated to real world dangers. Hell, I'm far removed from real world dangers but the soldiers had the exact response I would expect.

How about the fact that she said to the audience something like "I'm sure you're thinking 'they should suck it up, they're soldiers, they know what they signed up for'" after describing what it was like to be searching for him for 19 days with no real food, no showers, carrying 100 lbs of equipment, spooning with each other at night to stay warm, one guy having shat his pants and still wearing them because he couldn't wear his ripped pants around the local women...

What kind of psychopath would actually have thought that about those soldiers?

I'm not 100% sure but I don't really remember her saying that. I think it was more "you may be thinking ..." than "I'm sure you're thinking ...". Still, I remember thinking "I wasn't thinking that at all, why would anyone, what are you talking about?" Although in her defense I think it was just an awkward segueway.

FWIW I don't have a military background and I didn't follow the story closely when it broke, and I came away from the episode with nothing but sympathy for the soldiers, anger at Bergdahl and questions about why we would even asked them to go to these lengths during the search.

I agree with this completely - right up to the part where they said they would have killed him if they found him. That surprised me and - well, I mean. Its not good. It lowered my sympathy a little for the soldiers.

I guess I assumed they were taking some dramatic license to express their understandable anger towards him.

Right - except she actually asked them if they were just saying that or if they meant it. And both guys said asked said they meant it.

If I'm wrong and they were just saying that like people say it all the time ("I'm going to kill my husband if he forgets the milk"), then my bad. But that wasn't the impression I got.

they surely meant the feeling but most likely would not have even assaulted him, let alone killed him.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Her reaction to why the soldiers may have shot him themselves if they found him was terrible. :X

It's basically a modern day Saving Private Ryan.

I'm not sure what she thought their response would be. He decided to walk off base, that puts hundreds of men into very dangerous positions searching for him for weeks at a time. Did she somehow think they'd all be ok with it? She seems very insulated to real world dangers. Hell, I'm far removed from real world dangers but the soldiers had the exact response I would expect.

How about the fact that she said to the audience something like "I'm sure you're thinking 'they should suck it up, they're soldiers, they know what they signed up for'" after describing what it was like to be searching for him for 19 days with no real food, no showers, carrying 100 lbs of equipment, spooning with each other at night to stay warm, one guy having shat his pants and still wearing them because he couldn't wear his ripped pants around the local women...

What kind of psychopath would actually have thought that about those soldiers?

I'm not 100% sure but I don't really remember her saying that. I think it was more "you may be thinking ..." than "I'm sure you're thinking ...". Still, I remember thinking "I wasn't thinking that at all, why would anyone, what are you talking about?" Although in her defense I think it was just an awkward segueway.

FWIW I don't have a military background and I didn't follow the story closely when it broke, and I came away from the episode with nothing but sympathy for the soldiers, anger at Bergdahl and questions about why we would even asked them to go to these lengths during the search.

I agree with this completely - right up to the part where they said they would have killed him if they found him. That surprised me and - well, I mean. Its not good. It lowered my sympathy a little for the soldiers.

I guess I assumed they were taking some dramatic license to express their understandable anger towards him.

Right - except she actually asked them if they were just saying that or if they meant it. And both guys said asked said they meant it.

If I'm wrong and they were just saying that like people say it all the time ("I'm going to kill my husband if he forgets the milk"), then my bad. But that wasn't the impression I got.

I must have missed the follow-up. In my defense an attractive Latina was sitting across from me on the subway yesterday.

 

[whoknew]

Her reaction to why the soldiers may have shot him themselves if they found him was terrible. :X

It's basically a modern day Saving Private Ryan.

I'm not sure what she thought their response would be. He decided to walk off base, that puts hundreds of men into very dangerous positions searching for him for weeks at a time. Did she somehow think they'd all be ok with it? She seems very insulated to real world dangers. Hell, I'm far removed from real world dangers but the soldiers had the exact response I would expect.

How about the fact that she said to the audience something like "I'm sure you're thinking 'they should suck it up, they're soldiers, they know what they signed up for'" after describing what it was like to be searching for him for 19 days with no real food, no showers, carrying 100 lbs of equipment, spooning with each other at night to stay warm, one guy having shat his pants and still wearing them because he couldn't wear his ripped pants around the local women...

What kind of psychopath would actually have thought that about those soldiers?

I'm not 100% sure but I don't really remember her saying that. I think it was more "you may be thinking ..." than "I'm sure you're thinking ...". Still, I remember thinking "I wasn't thinking that at all, why would anyone, what are you talking about?" Although in her defense I think it was just an awkward segueway.

FWIW I don't have a military background and I didn't follow the story closely when it broke, and I came away from the episode with nothing but sympathy for the soldiers, anger at Bergdahl and questions about why we would even asked them to go to these lengths during the search.

I agree with this completely - right up to the part where they said they would have killed him if they found him. That surprised me and - well, I mean. Its not good. It lowered my sympathy a little for the soldiers.

I guess I assumed they were taking some dramatic license to express their understandable anger towards him.

Right - except she actually asked them if they were just saying that or if they meant it. And both guys said asked said they meant it.

If I'm wrong and they were just saying that like people say it all the time ("I'm going to kill my husband if he forgets the milk"), then my bad. But that wasn't the impression I got.

they surely meant the feeling but most likely would not have even assaulted him, let alone killed him.

Then why did the commanding officer stay for the two extra days? He said he was staying because he was worried the soldiers would beat the #### out of Bergdahl.

 

[bigmarc27]

Her reaction to why the soldiers may have shot him themselves if they found him was terrible. :X

It's basically a modern day Saving Private Ryan.

I'm not sure what she thought their response would be. He decided to walk off base, that puts hundreds of men into very dangerous positions searching for him for weeks at a time. Did she somehow think they'd all be ok with it? She seems very insulated to real world dangers. Hell, I'm far removed from real world dangers but the soldiers had the exact response I would expect.

How about the fact that she said to the audience something like "I'm sure you're thinking 'they should suck it up, they're soldiers, they know what they signed up for'" after describing what it was like to be searching for him for 19 days with no real food, no showers, carrying 100 lbs of equipment, spooning with each other at night to stay warm, one guy having shat his pants and still wearing them because he couldn't wear his ripped pants around the local women...What kind of psychopath would actually have thought that about those soldiers?

I'm not 100% sure but I don't really remember her saying that. I think it was more "you may be thinking ..." than "I'm sure you're thinking ...". Still, I remember thinking "I wasn't thinking that at all, why would anyone, what are you talking about?" Although in her defense I think it was just an awkward segueway.

FWIW I don't have a military background and I didn't follow the story closely when it broke, and I came away from the episode with nothing but sympathy for the soldiers, anger at Bergdahl and questions about why we would even asked them to go to these lengths during the search.

I agree with this completely - right up to the part where they said they would have killed him if they found him. That surprised me and - well, I mean. Its not good. It lowered my sympathy a little for the soldiers.

I guess I assumed they were taking some dramatic license to express their understandable anger towards him.

Right - except she actually asked them if they were just saying that or if they meant it. And both guys said asked said they meant it.

If I'm wrong and they were just saying that like people say it all the time ("I'm going to kill my husband if he forgets the milk"), then my bad. But that wasn't the impression I got.

they surely meant the feeling but most likely would not have even assaulted him, let alone killed him.

Then why did the commanding officer stay for the two extra days? He said he was staying because he was worried the soldiers would beat the #### out of Bergdahl.

Who ordered the code red?!

 

[RUSF18]

Her reaction to why the soldiers may have shot him themselves if they found him was terrible. :X

It's basically a modern day Saving Private Ryan.

I'm not sure what she thought their response would be. He decided to walk off base, that puts hundreds of men into very dangerous positions searching for him for weeks at a time. Did she somehow think they'd all be ok with it? She seems very insulated to real world dangers. Hell, I'm far removed from real world dangers but the soldiers had the exact response I would expect.

How about the fact that she said to the audience something like "I'm sure you're thinking 'they should suck it up, they're soldiers, they know what they signed up for'" after describing what it was like to be searching for him for 19 days with no real food, no showers, carrying 100 lbs of equipment, spooning with each other at night to stay warm, one guy having shat his pants and still wearing them because he couldn't wear his ripped pants around the local women...

What kind of psychopath would actually have thought that about those soldiers?

I'm not 100% sure but I don't really remember her saying that. I think it was more "you may be thinking ..." than "I'm sure you're thinking ...". Still, I remember thinking "I wasn't thinking that at all, why would anyone, what are you talking about?" Although in her defense I think it was just an awkward segueway.

FWIW I don't have a military background and I didn't follow the story closely when it broke, and I came away from the episode with nothing but sympathy for the soldiers, anger at Bergdahl and questions about why we would even asked them to go to these lengths during the search.

You're very likely right on that word choice. But still, I had the same reaction as you and it was what stuck with me more than anything else in the episode.

And I don't think it was just an awkward Segwaytm. She seems to be very careful with how she scripts all the non-interview discussion on these episodes. I would have thought it would be more likely for her to transition from that with something like "after hearing what they have gone through, you may be thinking that it's understandable how infuriated these soldiers were to the point where retaliation could actually occur, but standard rules are 'leave no man behind' etc"

Maybe that response was more in line with how she thinks and it's why she's taken up this cause to seemingly make him a sympathetic figure.

 

[RUSF18]

I hope we get a chance to hear Bowe attempt to reconcile his alleged goal with his plan, to inform superiors of all these issues which could potentially put his fellow soldiers' lives at risk, with the strong likelihood of actually putting his fellow soldiers' lives at risk when they were going to have to go look for him in the time between his leaving and arriving at the base.

 

[FUBAR]

Her reaction to why the soldiers may have shot him themselves if they found him was terrible. :X

It's basically a modern day Saving Private Ryan.

I'm not sure what she thought their response would be. He decided to walk off base, that puts hundreds of men into very dangerous positions searching for him for weeks at a time. Did she somehow think they'd all be ok with it? She seems very insulated to real world dangers. Hell, I'm far removed from real world dangers but the soldiers had the exact response I would expect.

How about the fact that she said to the audience something like "I'm sure you're thinking 'they should suck it up, they're soldiers, they know what they signed up for'" after describing what it was like to be searching for him for 19 days with no real food, no showers, carrying 100 lbs of equipment, spooning with each other at night to stay warm, one guy having shat his pants and still wearing them because he couldn't wear his ripped pants around the local women...

What kind of psychopath would actually have thought that about those soldiers?

I'm not 100% sure but I don't really remember her saying that. I think it was more "you may be thinking ..." than "I'm sure you're thinking ...". Still, I remember thinking "I wasn't thinking that at all, why would anyone, what are you talking about?" Although in her defense I think it was just an awkward segueway.

FWIW I don't have a military background and I didn't follow the story closely when it broke, and I came away from the episode with nothing but sympathy for the soldiers, anger at Bergdahl and questions about why we would even asked them to go to these lengths during the search.

I agree with this completely - right up to the part where they said they would have killed him if they found him. That surprised me and - well, I mean. Its not good. It lowered my sympathy a little for the soldiers.

I guess I assumed they were taking some dramatic license to express their understandable anger towards him.

Right - except she actually asked them if they were just saying that or if they meant it. And both guys said asked said they meant it.

If I'm wrong and they were just saying that like people say it all the time ("I'm going to kill my husband if he forgets the milk"), then my bad. But that wasn't the impression I got.

they surely meant the feeling but most likely would not have even assaulted him, let alone killed him.

Then why did the commanding officer stay for the two extra days? He said he was staying because he was worried the soldiers would beat the #### out of Bergdahl.

possibly because any heightened risk would give a CO reason to prevent the incident.

 

[dino259]

I came across a podcast by Slate called Serial Spoiler. After the episode of Serial comes out they have 2 people discuss the episode. Same type of stuff that this thread does. I found it through stitcher.

 

[pollardsvision]

Her reaction to why the soldiers may have shot him themselves if they found him was terrible. :X

It's basically a modern day Saving Private Ryan.

I'm not sure what she thought their response would be. He decided to walk off base, that puts hundreds of men into very dangerous positions searching for him for weeks at a time. Did she somehow think they'd all be ok with it? She seems very insulated to real world dangers. Hell, I'm far removed from real world dangers but the soldiers had the exact response I would expect.

How about the fact that she said to the audience something like "I'm sure you're thinking 'they should suck it up, they're soldiers, they know what they signed up for'" after describing what it was like to be searching for him for 19 days with no real food, no showers, carrying 100 lbs of equipment, spooning with each other at night to stay warm, one guy having shat his pants and still wearing them because he couldn't wear his ripped pants around the local women...

What kind of psychopath would actually have thought that about those soldiers?

I'm not 100% sure but I don't really remember her saying that. I think it was more "you may be thinking ..." than "I'm sure you're thinking ...". Still, I remember thinking "I wasn't thinking that at all, why would anyone, what are you talking about?" Although in her defense I think it was just an awkward segueway.

FWIW I don't have a military background and I didn't follow the story closely when it broke, and I came away from the episode with nothing but sympathy for the soldiers, anger at Bergdahl and questions about why we would even asked them to go to these lengths during the search.

Yeah, I think it was just an awkward segue way as she then went into a 20 minute piece interviewing soldiers and making it crystal clear exactly why they'd be irate with Bergdahl, and even mad enough to want to kill him.

The point of the episode was to express what a horrible, dangerous situation this ####### was putting these guys in. No reason to get caught up in one line. God bless her, but this is a pinko, commie hippie liberal telling a story to mostly other pinko, commie hippie liberals (FBG's aside), so an awkward segue way like this is to be expected.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Navy SEAL, dog handler: How a failed mission to rescue Bowe Bergdahl caused irreparable lossThe juxtaposition of two American military men who could stand in the same courtroom in the coming months couldn’t be set in more stark relief.

Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl faces a general court-martial for walking off of his base in eastern Afghanistan in 2009. Bergdahl spent five years in Taliban captivity, where he was tormented, before being freed in a controversial prisoner exchange last year.

Jimmy Hatch, a Navy SEAL senior chief who led a platoon into a fierce battle to try to rescue Bergdahl, was shot and badly wounded on that mission. Beside him, service dog Remco lay mortally wounded, after running through a hail of bullets at two Taliban fighters hiding in a ditch, exposing their whereabouts.

Bergdahl is charged with not only desertion but also misbehavior before the enemy – an archaic, rarely used charge that includes “endangering safety of a command, unit, place, ship, or military property” and has a maximum penalty of life in prison. It could help answer the question of whether Bergdahl betrayed his country intentionally or should be viewed as acting as a result of mental health problems.

Military officials won’t confirm or deny the 2009 mission was a search for Bergdahl. An Army spokesman said Tuesday that the service maintains the position stated by then-Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel in 2014 that he did not know of any specific “circumstances or details of U.S. soldiers dying as a result of efforts to find and rescue Sgt. Bergdahl.” An Army investigator and an officer who presided over Bergdahl’s preliminary hearing earlier this year both recommended he be spared a general court-martial and prison time. But no one has denied servicemembers were hurt as a result of the search and an Army commander last week ruled against the investigator’s recommendation and ordered Bergdahl face a general court-martial.

Hatch, his femur shattered, went through 18 surgeries in two years. He lost his military career and suffered from debilitating Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. He nearly took his own life. His fate inextricably tied to Bergdahl’s, Hatch said he would readily testify if he is called upon.

“I would tell them about the sacrifices of the group of individuals that went out with me on the night I was wounded,” Hatch said. “About the risks they took on behalf of Mr. Bergdahl because of his decisions.

“I would like Mr. Bergdahl and his family to hear what his decisions did to me and my family. I’d like to tell him about my injuries and about the difficulties my family and I continue to have.”

The Rescue Mission

Hostage rescue situations are notoriously dangerous. Unlike other operations in which a unit will take time to review and rehearse, the rescue is a mission of opportunity – there is little time for planning or thorough intelligence gathering and the captors are alert and ready. And there’s a hostage among them who must be protected.

“The enemy holds almost all the cards,” Hatch said.

The night of July 9, 2009 was no different.

Hatch’s Virginia-Beach based Naval Special Warfare Development Group was deployed to Afghanistan when Bergdahl walked off his base on June 30. Resources across the country and particularly in the east were being diverted to participate in search efforts.

Much of the war effort had been placed on hold to enable the search.

That night, Hatch and his crew were part of an assault force acting on intelligence that had identified the location of Bergdahl and his Taliban-aligned captors. The SEALS were joined by Sr. Chief Mike Toussaint – a dog handler - and his combat dog Remco, who had deployed to Afghanistan with the SEAL team and had been on missions with them for the better part of a year.

The men believe there is no doubt that the enemy knew they were coming – the helicopters could be heard for miles around. Before they even touched down, they were already being assailed by machine gun fire and rocket-propelled grenades, Hatch said.

The men moved forward toward a large building that appeared to be heavily fortified and were quickly engaged in various firefights. Hatch and a small group that included Remco and Toussaint, peeled off to try to outmaneuver two apparent fighters who’d been spotted running a small distance away.

The fighters were wearing traditional clothing – the qameez and shalwar, flowing long white cotton tops and loose cotton pants. One of those could be Bergdahl, Toussaint thought. They would have dressed him up, surely.

The moon was bright. Still, the two fighters who’d been spotted had disappeared into the night and the high fields.

Hatch and Toussaint have different recollections of the next moments. But both agreed Remco, on orders from his handler, charged forward, running directly at the two fighters who had taken shelter in a nearby culvert. Both said the dog saved their lives, by exposing the location of the enemy.

It was his last act. The men watched as one of the fighters stood and fired at Remco point blank, shooting him in the head. Remco flew backwards.

Within seconds, Hatch was also shot in his leg in a devastating blow to his femur. He, too, flew into the air by the force of the impact and landed on the ground in a shattering of pain.

Toussaint could hear Hatch screaming as he ran toward the culvert firing, and managed to kill both men before they could shoot him. Then he dragged Remco back to where corpsmen were already working on Hatch.

Later, Toussaint would be awarded the Silver Star and a commendation for extraordinary heroism from the Chief of Naval Operations, even as he struggled to fight hazing charges that were later brought into question. Hatch received a Purple Heart. Remco, posthumously, also received a Silver Star that credited him for drawing the enemy’s fire and giving his teammates “the split seconds needed to change the balance of the fight.”

As he stood there, alongside his dead dog and his wounded buddy, still in the adrenalin of the fight, Toussaint’s anger was at the enemy – the people trying to kill them. Later, as he sat on the evacuation helicopter, it started to gnaw at him that Bergdahl’s decisions brought them to that place.

He watched his best friend - the dog he’d trained with and who was by his side for two years - killed, and his buddy shot and screaming in pain “all because of a selfish person that just put all of us at risk,” Toussaint said. “But we were there to do a job.”

...

http://www.stripes.com/news/navy-seal-dog-handler-how-a-failed-mission-to-rescue-bowe-bergdahl-caused-irreparable-loss-1.385511

- This could complicate things for Bergdahl, Navy Seal Team 6 member badly wounded, Seal dog also killed, in search for Bergdahl... also, note this appears in Stars & Stripes.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Bergdahl recalls escape and capture in third 'Serial' episode

- Every single bit of this was totally foreseeable.

 

[Jalapanose]

Whew, this season is brutally bad. I'm out

 

[MattFancy]

I can't really get into this season. Mainly because it's a case that doesn't seem that complicated based on all the facts we know. Wish they would have done the Steve Avery case that Netflix is doing with Making a Murderer.

 

[BowieMercs]

Trump says he's a deserter who should be executed, so my guess is he's probably a hero who saved our country from annihilation.

Just curious... where do you come down on Snowden? Traitor or hero?

 

[SIDA!]

Kind of interesting. Last year around this time everybody was talking about serial.

Now, the flavor of the day is the netflix documentary that is basically the tv version of what season one serial fans I think were expecting season 2 to be.

While I enjoy listening to the serial broadcast and appreciate her talent to tell a story, I am not all that invested in this season. I have no idea really what my role as a listener is supposed to be.

There really isn't a lot of intrigue or sense of obligation on my part to look at anything outside the actual podcasts to follow along.

 

[RUSF18]

Did the new episode come out today? I didn't even refesh my podcast app this morning.

 

[dino259]

I just feel she picked a bad case. This is so different than last season.

I am just amazed by the filth and dirt that he and other soldiers went through. Personal Hygiene is something I think I take for granted.

 

[MattFancy]

Kind of interesting. Last year around this time everybody was talking about serial.

Now, the flavor of the day is the netflix documentary that is basically the tv version of what season one serial fans I think were expecting season 2 to be.

While I enjoy listening to the serial broadcast and appreciate her talent to tell a story, I am not all that invested in this season. I have no idea really what my role as a listener is supposed to be.

There really isn't a lot of intrigue or sense of obligation on my part to look at anything outside the actual podcasts to follow along.

Pretty much how I feel. I just can't get into it this go round. Maybe it's because the case isn't as interesting to me. Maybe it's because I was familiar with the Baltimore area, so I knew of the places from last season. I don't know. I'm saving a bunch of them up and will just binge through to see if that helps. But after the first 2 episodes, I don't really feel the interest like I did last season.

 

[Righetti]

I am in the minority but actually like this season but not for the reasons I liked season 1. This last epsiode hair gives some interesting perspective of the entire tribal region, conflicts within it and differences between the various factions which is actually fascinating. But I get that this is not the Serial we are all used to

 

[PatsWillWin]

It's an interesting listen, but as others have said, nothing like the experience that S1 was. Still, I'm glad I'm getting to hear the story like this.

 

[FUBAR]

It's an interesting listen, but as others have said, nothing like the experience that S1 was. Still, I'm glad I'm getting to hear the story like this.

agreed.

FWIW, the trial is scheduled for August.

 

[HellToupee]

I listen to a lot of podcast so usually the biweekly switch would be welcomed but it just made me drop the show