Should homosexual parents be allowed to adopt? (1 Viewer)

[AAABatteries]

I'd still love to see this list. It's been said multiple times that a woman can't teach a boy to be a man. What parts of "being a man" are unique to men?" I'd love to see what specific things you think women can't teach. 

I'm not making his argument as I don't want anyone thinking I have his opinions on this.  My simple answer to this thread was "Of Course" and that's still my answer.

However, now that things have deviated some I do want to chime in here.  I personally don't feel well equipped to teach my daughters all the things I think they may want to know or will have questions about as it pertains to becoming a woman.  Could I know those things, learn those things, etc. - maybe but I'm not convinced you always can.  Same applies to my wife.  We've had these conversations over the 20+ years of raising our 4 kids.  There's stuff she wants/expects me to deal with and there's stuff I want/expect her to deal with.  We are a team and make each other better and fill in the gaps for each other with our knowledge/expertise.

Now does any of that mean that a homosexual couple couldn't do the same and possibly better - of course not.  But I don't think it's wrong to acknowledge that there could be things that a kid may not get the "best" knowledge of because they have same sex parents.  But we all miss out on things.  None of my parents/step-parents taught me anything about finances for example.  The most important question here, IMO, is would these kids get the love and support they need to become their best selves in the future and again, the answer is "Of Course".

 

[Ministry of Pain]

If you are not naive enough to think every announced gay person was born that way but at least a few and in fact more than a few made a lifestyle choice, many times brought on from their upbringing or environment which could certainly be but not limited to sexual abuse or molestation, emotional abuse, and early on rejection of the opposite sex that so many experience when they are young. 

There is a certain % of their community that was not born that way but it was a learned behavior so if you can learn it that way, certainly being raised by 2 men or 2 women is going to have some impact on some of those adopted children. 

Now if you can digest that without your head exploding then we can discuss if these folks should be left to care for babies and children, I don't have the answer to that but I will defend the LGB community with this...Domestic Violence is way less in a Same Sex household then the other way around. A child might learn more gay tendencies in one home and eventually turn gay or choose that lifestyle but adopted into another traditional household could suffer an increase in physical and emotional harm so you gotta weight the two choices here.   

And we are discussing for the most part, unwanted children who are already at a disadvantage not having the natural love from their mothers and fathers so while I am pretty harsh on the LGB community for their total dishonesty in pretending its all God's plan, it doesn't mean they are not doing something decent by caring for an otherwise unloved child. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

I'm not making his argument as I don't want anyone thinking I have his opinions on this.  My simple answer to this thread was "Of Course" and that's still my answer.

However, now that things have deviated some I do want to chime in here.  I personally don't feel well equipped to teach my daughters all the things I think they may want to know or will have questions about as it pertains to becoming a woman.  Could I know those things, learn those things, etc. - maybe but I'm not convinced you always can.  Same applies to my wife.  We've had these conversations over the 20+ years of raising our 4 kids.  There's stuff she wants/expects me to deal with and there's stuff I want/expect her to deal with.  We are a team and make each other better and fill in the gaps for each other with our knowledge/expertise.

Now does any of that mean that a homosexual couple couldn't do the same and possibly better - of course not.  But I don't think it's wrong to acknowledge that there could be things that a kid may not get the "best" knowledge of because they have same sex parents.  But we all miss out on things.  None of my parents/step-parents taught me anything about finances for example.  The most important question here, IMO, is would these kids get the love and support they need to become their best selves in the future and again, the answer is "Of Course".

I get what you guys are saying on the second paragraph, and I agree for the most part.  Mostly I was pushing back at the "can't" part.   Our system is similar to what you describe - so far I have handled the "uncomfortable" boy conversations, and I am guessing in 5-6 years, my wife will do similar with our daughter.   That doesn't mean that I couldn't do that with my daughter if something happened to my wife, more like something gets lost because I could tell her/teach her but I didn't experience it.  There is a role we fall into as parents, and I would guess a bit of it is just a default setting and based a bit on experiences.  Doesn't mean either couldn't do it, and IMO none of that makes them more or less a man/woman if that piece isn't there. (if that makes sense).  

 

[BladeRunner]

So popularity is the basis of your morality? 

Nope.  Biology and science.   What's yours based on?  Virtue points?

We can take back-handed swipes at each other all day if you want, but I prefer to keeping it civil and professional.

 

[BladeRunner]

I'm not making his argument as I don't want anyone thinking I have his opinions on this.  My simple answer to this thread was "Of Course" and that's still my answer.

However, now that things have deviated some I do want to chime in here.  I personally don't feel well equipped to teach my daughters all the things I think they may want to know or will have questions about as it pertains to becoming a woman.  Could I know those things, learn those things, etc. - maybe but I'm not convinced you always can.  Same applies to my wife.  We've had these conversations over the 20+ years of raising our 4 kids.  There's stuff she wants/expects me to deal with and there's stuff I want/expect her to deal with.  We are a team and make each other better and fill in the gaps for each other with our knowledge/expertise.

Now does any of that mean that a homosexual couple couldn't do the same and possibly better - of course not.  But I don't think it's wrong to acknowledge that there could be things that a kid may not get the "best" knowledge of because they have same sex parents.  But we all miss out on things.  None of my parents/step-parents taught me anything about finances for example.  The most important question here, IMO, is would these kids get the love and support they need to become their best selves in the future and again, the answer is "Of Course".

You've done a fairly good job here explaining part of my position.   That's why male/female couples are the ideal - why should we short-change a kid with homosexual couples if there is a heterosexual couple available? 

Just because some people "missed out" on some things and they turned out fine doesn't mean we should be selling kids short as far as the sexes go.  We should be giving children the ultimate and best position starting out if we can - and that is male/female parents.

For those that can't acknowledge that men and women each bring something to the table only they can convey/teach then I would say you've admitted your are useless and unnecessary.  I'm arguing FOR you, by the way.  I do think you bring something to the table despite how you may feel about yourself.

 

[msudaisy26]

You've done a fairly good job here explaining part of my position.   That's why male/female couples are the ideal - why should we short-change a kid with homosexual couples if there is a heterosexual couple available? 

Just because some people "missed out" on some things and they turned out fine doesn't mean we should be selling kids short as far as the sexes go.  We should be giving children the ultimate and best position starting out if we can - and that is male/female parents.

For those that can't acknowledge that men and women each bring something to the table only they can convey/teach then I would say you've admitted your are useless and unnecessary.  I'm arguing FOR you, by the way.  I do think you bring something to the table despite how you may feel about yourself.

Wow

 

[BladeRunner]

...Now if you can digest that without your head exploding then we can discuss if these folks should be left to care for babies and children, I don't have the answer to that but I will defend the LGB community with this...Domestic Violence is way less in a Same Sex household then the other way around.

Incorrect.  Domestic violence is actually HIGHER in same sex households, ESPECIALLY lesbian couples:

https://ncadv.org/blog/posts/domestic-violence-and-the-lgbtq-community

 

[BladeRunner]

Wow

The truth ain't for the faint-hearted. 

You probably should get out of this thread ASAP if you can't handle it.  It's all I'm going to deliver in here.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Some of us are still waiting for that list of things that women couldn't teach us and/or what a "man" is.   I feel like I am missing out on some important knowledge here.  

 

[BladeRunner]

Some of us are still waiting for that list of things that women couldn't teach us and/or what a "man" is.   I feel like I am missing out on some important knowledge here.  

The fact that you (and others) even have to ask this means you've already lost.  If you bring nothing to the table, then what good are you?  You're nothing but hired help, no?  A woman can do your job and probably better, right?  You're not needed in a relationship (per you).

Here is some light reading for you guys on those things you mock:

https://www.ebony.com/life/family_parenting/black-fatherhood-role-models/

 

[dkp993]

The truth ain't for the faint-hearted. 

You probably should get out of this thread ASAP if you can't handle it.  It's all I'm going to deliver in here.

Whoa Gordon Gecko Junior.  Feelin yourself today I see. 

 

[Thunderlips]

OF course they should be able to adopt; subject to the same policies as hetero parents. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

The fact that you (and others) even have to ask this means you've already lost.  If you bring nothing to the table, then what good are you?  You're nothing but hired help, no?  A woman can do your job and probably better, right?  You're not needed in a relationship (per you).

   taking a page out of SC's book, I see.  

 

[BladeRunner]

Whoa Gordon Gecko Junior.  Feelin yourself today I see. 

Nah, not really.  Just keeping letting her know the details.

 

[BladeRunner]

   taking a page out of SC's book, I see.  

Did you bother to read the link?  You asked, I delivered, and all you got is this?  Mocking?

I'm asking YOU why you are necessary if your wife can do everything you do?  Based on yours and others understanding you're nothing but sperm donors, no?

Please explain to me why you're necessary if your wife can do it all (or vice-versa)?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Incorrect.  Domestic violence is actually HIGHER in same sex households, ESPECIALLY lesbian couples:

https://ncadv.org/blog/posts/domestic-violence-and-the-lgbtq-community

We haven't had a chance to be formerly introduced and I have been reading your posts for a long time, I would enjoy a morning talk show or podcast with you for at least a couple weeks  

Or maybe I just don't remember the last time we had an exchange but I think we are both fierce independents that find very little comfort from either official political party in this country. 

-I said all that to tell you we aren't talking about 2 gay lovers here as much as the adopted child. I don't think anything you linked shows that the LGB community is more likely to beat/verbally abuse or sexually abuse their adopted children, in fact the statistics you point to will actually give me a little credibility that I know what I am saying here. Because they've been exposed to a lot of abuse in their own lives, many times a person from the gay community understands exactly what it is like to be abused and would never inflict that on their own adopted child is where I am going here. 

That is only my opinion and I am happy to always rethink or pivot from my POV but usually I defend gays who want to adopt children that most don't want to give the time of day to...if you have a better plan or idea I'm all ears. 

 

[BladeRunner]

We haven't had a chance to be formerly introduced and I have been reading your posts for a long time, I would enjoy a morning talk show or podcast with you for at least a couple weeks  

Or maybe I just don't remember the last time we had an exchange but I think we are both fierce independents that find very little comfort from either official political party in this country. 

-I said all that to tell you we aren't talking about 2 gay lovers here as much as the adopted child. I don't think anything you linked shows that the LGB community is more likely to beat/verbally abuse or sexually abuse their adopted children, in fact the statistics you point to will actually give me a little credibility that I know what I am saying here. Because they've been exposed to a lot of abuse in their own lives, many times a person from the gay community understands exactly what it is like to be abused and would never inflict that on their own adopted child is where I am going here. 

That is only my opinion and I am happy to always rethink or pivot from my POV but usually I defend gays who want to adopt children that most don't want to give the time of day to...if you have a better plan or idea I'm all ears. 

Nice to meet you. 

My only problem with your post was the domestic violence angle.  Studies have shown that domestic violence is greater in same-sex couples than their hetero counterparts.  Maybe we're talking in circles?  or two different things?  I'm not sure.  It was only to point out that bringing up domestic violence (you weren't the only one who did it) in defense of same-sex couples actually defeats that defense.   

Some other links:

https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2014/09/domestic-violence-likely-more-frequent-for-same-sex-couples/

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/if-youre-not-stragiht-youre-at-higher-risk-for-domestic-violence-180949988/

That was the only thing I wanted to address about your otherwise good post. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

Did you bother to read the link?  You asked, I delivered, and all you got is this?  Mocking?

I'm asking YOU why you are necessary if your wife can do everything you do?  Based on yours and others understanding you're nothing but sperm donors, no?

Please explain to me why you're necessary if your wife can do it all (or vice-versa)?

I already did.   If you are interested, you can read my posts.   

What link - the domestic violence one?  I didn't ask for that or bring it up, so no - I didn't bother clicking on that.   Was there another link to what it means to be a man that I missed?

 

[BladeRunner]

I already did.   If you are interested, you can read my posts.   

What link - the domestic violence one?  I didn't ask for that or bring it up, so no - I didn't bother clicking on that.   Was there another link to what it means to be a man that I missed?

Yeah, in the post you responded to.  I added it shortly after I originally posted it.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Yeah, in the post you responded to.  I added it shortly after I originally posted it.

Am I getting this correct, by linking that article in response to that question,  you are saying that a woman can't teach their sons to:

Behave like gentlemen

Express their emotions

Hold themselves accountable

Work to provide

Respect a woman's body

 

[Navin Johnson]

Thought for sure this thread was a ban trap, apparently bigotry is not as frowned upon as one would anticipate at FBG's. 

 

[Herb]

I am most definitely not in the habit of defending @BladeRunner or his views, but I do not believe he is a bigot. To paraphrase Hanlon's Razor, "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by..."

I'm struggling to come up with a term that won't get me suspended. " being out of touch with modern social norms?" 

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Based on the title, I thought this was an old thread bumped from over a decade ago.

 

[The Narrator]

You've done a fairly good job here explaining part of my position.   That's why male/female couples are the ideal - why should we short-change a kid with homosexual couples if there is a heterosexual couple available? 

Just because some people "missed out" on some things and they turned out fine doesn't mean we should be selling kids short as far as the sexes go.  We should be giving children the ultimate and best position starting out if we can - and that is male/female parents.

For those that can't acknowledge that men and women each bring something to the table only they can convey/teach then I would say you've admitted your are useless and unnecessary.  I'm arguing FOR you, by the way.  I do think you bring something to the table despite how you may feel about yourself.

There are lots of things that I can't convey/teach. There are some things I can. I'm not at all offended by that fact, nor am I offended by the fact that there are many women who can convey/teach things I cannot that have nothing to do with their genitals. 

Again, what are these things that require genitals in order to teach children? Could you give me a few examples? 

 

[KarmaPolice]

The fact that you (and others) even have to ask this means you've already lost.  If you bring nothing to the table, then what good are you?  You're nothing but hired help, no?  A woman can do your job and probably better, right?  You're not needed in a relationship (per you).

Here is some light reading for you guys on those things you mock:

https://www.ebony.com/life/family_parenting/black-fatherhood-role-models/

There are lots of things that I can't convey/teach. There are some things I can. I'm not at all offended by that fact, nor am I offended by the fact that there are many women who can convey/teach things I cannot that have nothing to do with their genitals. 

Again, what are these things that require genitals in order to teach children? Could you give me a few examples? 

 

[The Narrator]

Did you bother to read the link?  You asked, I delivered, and all you got is this?  Mocking?

I'm asking YOU why you are necessary if your wife can do everything you do?  Based on yours and others understanding you're nothing but sperm donors, no?

Please explain to me why you're necessary if your wife can do it all (or vice-versa)?

Why do you think that men and women having overlapping skills degrades either men or women?

 

[BladeRunner]

Why do you think that men and women having overlapping skills degrades either men or women?

You keep misrepresenting my position. Stop with the backhanded slaps.

 

[BladeRunner]

There are lots of things that I can't convey/teach. There are some things I can. I'm not at all offended by that fact, nor am I offended by the fact that there are many women who can convey/teach things I cannot that have nothing to do with their genitals. 

Again, what are these things that require genitals in order to teach children? Could you give me a few examples? 

Asked and answered.

 

[The Narrator]

You keep misrepresenting my position. Stop with the backhanded slaps.

I'm trying to understand you. You keep saying things like "I'm asking YOU why you are necessary if your wife can do everything you do?  Based on yours and others understanding you're nothing but sperm donors, no?"

I don't think my characterization was out of line, but apologies if I misunderstood. 

Again, could you give me a few examples of things that require either gender to teach? 

 

[bigbottom]

In vitro should be two hetero parents only.  If people are so concerned about the child, then THAT is the ideal and we should be enforcing that (for invitro, again).

Can you flesh this out a bit?  When you say “two hetero parents” do they have to be married? Is your position really that invitro procedures should be illegal for women if they are lesbian or unmarried? I’m not even sure that would be constitutional. 

Bump.