Should the browns go after Flynn or RGIII ? (1 Viewer)

[Shutout]

In a vacuum, this is a simple question because the hype of "potential" with RG III is in overdrive and even though we have one QB that HAS played in the NFL and one who hasn't taken a single snap, I'm guessing the potential is enough to put this to rest.

BUT....

The reason this question is being asked is because its commonly being tossed around that in order to get RG III, a TON of draft picks are goingt o have to be given up...to move up two (2) spots. On the other hand, Flynn can be had for just dollars if the Packers don't roll the dice and tag him.

So, I've been hearing about the idea to sign Flynn and save all those picks to help plug holes. Some of the speculation is to take Blackmon at 4, a right tackle at 22, and a RB in the next rounds, etc. Seems like a solid idea for a team needing a QB and WRs.



BUT...

Should the Browns put THIS much stock into one young unproven guy over another? Would it make sense to load the team using the draft picks and just go with Flynn?

I'm hoping that some Browns fans will chime in on this because Clevelanders are living in an area that has seen their stars jilt them recently (LeBron) and have watched this "meh" Browns team just spin and stumble for seemingly ever.

So its interesting to hear from the proverbial backyard how fans see it.

-Is it that they just want a good team or do they swing for the homerun?

-Is anyone thinking "Why take Blackmon with a 4th when we could have already had Julio with the 6th last year"?

-Is there a right or wrong answer in this one?

 

[gandalas]

I want RGIII, but not at the price that people are talking about (4+22+2nd rounder?). If that is indeed the price, I would be happier with Flynn and using both of those 1st rounders to get some more pieces for the team.

I would be VERY happy to get Flynn, Claiborne at #4 and Floyd at #22. I am not enamored with Blackmon at #4...would rather roll the dice with Floyd later in the round. But a secondary of Claiborne + Haden + Ward would make me VERY excited about the future of the team.

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

While I do believe that Flynn will succeed if he gets put in a WCO, I can't answer that question with any degree of certainty.

What I can say is cost is almost irrelevant if you are getting an elite QB. How many picks would it take to pry Newton from Carolina right now? If I were running the show in Carolina, 2 years worth of complete drafts wouldn't be enough for any team but INDY.

This game has evolved into such a passing league that having a young elite QB is nearly priceless.

Having said that, there are NO certainties regarding any player that's coming out in the draft. It's also completely possible Flynn changes around a franchise's fortune going forward and RG3 flames out.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

It was pointed out in another thread that the Giants gave up 4 draft picks for Eli and all it got them was 2 championships.

Matt Flynn is a caretaker, Robert Griffin is a difference maker.

 

[wadegarrett]

RGIII...and it's not that close IMO.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

Matt Flynn is a caretaker, Robert Griffin is a difference maker.

 

[Sweet Love]

I want RGIII, but not at the price that people are talking about (4+22+2nd rounder?). If that is indeed the price, I would be happier with Flynn and using both of those 1st rounders to get some more pieces for the team.I would be VERY happy to get Flynn, Claiborne at #4 and Floyd at #22. I am not enamored with Blackmon at #4...would rather roll the dice with Floyd later in the round. But a secondary of Claiborne + Haden + Ward would make me VERY excited about the future of the team.

Here's the thing...whether right or wrong, the Pack will expect the low 1st rounder from the Browns for Flynn. From other teams, they would be fine with a high 2nd (i.e. Indy or STL), but they know the team is desperate for a QB, and that they possess two 1st rounders, AND that they would have to give up a good deal more for RGIII. I just don't see them settling on the 2nd rounder when CLE walks away with their two 1st rounders in tact...one wildcard is Cleveland's 2013 1st rounder...

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Matt Flynn is a caretaker, Robert Griffin is a difference maker.

Good point. I'll keep that in mind.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

I want RGIII, but not at the price that people are talking about (4+22+2nd rounder?). If that is indeed the price, I would be happier with Flynn and using both of those 1st rounders to get some more pieces for the team.I would be VERY happy to get Flynn, Claiborne at #4 and Floyd at #22. I am not enamored with Blackmon at #4...would rather roll the dice with Floyd later in the round. But a secondary of Claiborne + Haden + Ward would make me VERY excited about the future of the team.

Here's the thing...whether right or wrong, the Pack will expect the low 1st rounder from the Browns for Flynn. From other teams, they would be fine with a high 2nd (i.e. Indy or STL), but they know the team is desperate for a QB, and that they possess two 1st rounders, AND that they would have to give up a good deal more for RGIII. I just don't see them settling on the 2nd rounder when CLE walks away with their two 1st rounders in tact...one wildcard is Cleveland's 2013 1st rounder...

Do the Packers even have any leverage to demand anything right now? They aren't going to tag him and there doesn't seem to be any compelling reason for him to sign with them so they can do a sign and trade.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

RG3 and its not even close

 

[stbugs]

While I do believe that Flynn will succeed if he gets put in a WCO, I can't answer that question with any degree of certainty. What I can say is cost is almost irrelevant if you are getting an elite QB. How many picks would it take to pry Newton from Carolina right now? If I were running the show in Carolina, 2 years worth of complete drafts wouldn't be enough for any team but INDY. This game has evolved into such a passing league that having a young elite QB is nearly priceless. Having said that, there are NO certainties regarding any player that's coming out in the draft. It's also completely possible Flynn changes around a franchise's fortune going forward and RG3 flames out.

Agreed on Newton. While there is a team aspect to the NFL and some QBs (like Tebow last year) get too much credit and also too much blame, the QB is still easily the most valuable player on the team. Newton took the #32 scoring offense (dead last by almost 80 points below #31) in 2010 and made it the #5 scoring offense in his rookie year. Carolina wouldn't trade him for any amount of draft picks right now. Plus, Newton is playing under the new rookie cap, which makes him cheap as well.Indy is the luckiest team in the NFL right now. They are like the San Antonia Spurs the year that David Robinson got hurt and they lucked into the top pick and got Tim Duncan. They happened to lose Peyton the year that the potentially best franchise QB in years was available. They got the #1 pick the year that Manning was drafted. Think about how good they have been and may be if Luck lives up to potential and how bad they may have been if they got the 1st picks the year after Manning and Luck.I know people talk about safe picks, but if you have someone that you think will turn into the next great QB, you would be crazy not to take them, especially with the new rookie cap. Yes, they may bust, but they could also take a bad team and turn them into a perennial playoff contender. There isn't another position on the field that can have that impact.

 

[MAC_32]

If Shurmur had been canned as he should have at season's end I'd be all for RG3.

We're stuck with him though and I see RG3 not working in his system. if you guaranteed me another 4-12 season, Shurmur losing his job, and his replacement knowing how to properly use RG3 I'd be all for it. Can't make that guarantee though.

I think Flynn ends up in Miami but if he doesn't I'm all for bringing him in. If Flynn goes to Miami we probably go Colt again and I just hope we don't take another QB until day 3. I think the Browns problem is a lot more Shurmur than Colt, hopefully with added weapons he can show that he is the guy even though we'll suck again and then Shurmur goes.

If Miami and Washington get Flynn and Manning hopefully a mystery team doesn't emerge and we can get the Rams pick without giving up the 22 or a future 1. In the end if you're the Rams do you take two 1's and change from a team like KC who is at 11 this year? or do you take a 1 and a 2 from a team like the Browns that are already at 4? Pipe dream, but I can hope. If the mystery team sells the farm we're out and I kinda expect that to happen if Miami and Washington eliminate themselves from the conversation.

 

[Donnybrook]

Is it really that simple? Coaches and GMs have short windows to produce a winning football team. RGIII could be a great QB but he may cost you the better part of two drafts. He may eventually have success but will the current coaching staff be there to reep the rewards. Luckily for the Browns free agency happens before the draft.

What about this scenario for the Browns? Flynn in free agency and Tannehill at 4 in the draft. I admit it sound crazy but the Browns could afford to do it with rookie salary structure. I wonder if they say to themselves (like Vikes did last season), we are not going to get this oppertunity again next year.

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

RG3 and its not even close

There is no statement on these boards that I hate more than this one. Especially when the players involved are relative unknowns to the NFL.Have you broken down the tape on every one of Matt Flynn's snaps? Have you interviewed him, (assuming you have enough knowledge to ask him questions about coverage) and tested his aptitude on NFL defenses? Tested his ability to make quick decisions?How about doing the same for RG3? There's NFL people that do have access to all that stuff, and have the appropriate knowledge, that still get these kinds of things wrong often. Miami chose Daunte Culpepper over Drew Brees to just name one. If you want to tell me that you'd rather have Larry Fitzgerald than Michael Crabtree, and its not even close, I'm good with that. We've seen those guys play, and we more or less know who they are in the NFL.However, there's more than just a small chance RG3 completely flops, and Flynn is at minimum at quality starter. Its also conceivable Flynn goes to a team with some dynamic weapons, and becomes the next Kurt Warner/Tom Brady.Sorry for the rant.

 

[King of the Jungle]

RGIII will sell jerseys. Flynn will not.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

RG3 and its not even close

There is no statement on these boards that I hate more than this one. Especially when the players involved are relative unknowns to the NFL.Have you broken down the tape on every one of Matt Flynn's snaps? Have you interviewed him, (assuming you have enough knowledge to ask him questions about coverage) and tested his aptitude on NFL defenses? Tested his ability to make quick decisions?

How about doing the same for RG3?

There's NFL people that do have access to all that stuff, and have the appropriate knowledge, that still get these kinds of things wrong often. Miami chose Daunte Culpepper over Drew Brees to just name one.

If you want to tell me that you'd rather have Larry Fitzgerald than Michael Crabtree, and its not even close, I'm good with that. We've seen those guys play, and we more or less know who they are in the NFL.

However, there's more than just a small chance RG3 completely flops, and Flynn is at minimum at quality starter. Its also conceivable Flynn goes to a team with some dynamic weapons, and becomes the next Kurt Warner/Tom Brady.

Sorry for the rant.

Oh jesus, take it easy Packer fan. If I had to bet on who would be better, Id take RG3.

I guarantee a poll of NFL GM level personnel, the majority would take RG3 over Flynn.

Place Flynn in this draft where would he go?

guy has played in what 3 games? and I watched every second of everyone of them.

Could Flynn be hassleback? maybe, could he be a AJ Feely/Kolb/Matt Moore type? yep. He is far from bust proof

 

[krsone21]

RGIII will sell jerseys. Flynn will not.

Flynn will sell jersey's if the team wins and he plays really well.

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

RG3 and its not even close

There is no statement on these boards that I hate more than this one. Especially when the players involved are relative unknowns to the NFL.Have you broken down the tape on every one of Matt Flynn's snaps? Have you interviewed him, (assuming you have enough knowledge to ask him questions about coverage) and tested his aptitude on NFL defenses? Tested his ability to make quick decisions?

How about doing the same for RG3?

There's NFL people that do have access to all that stuff, and have the appropriate knowledge, that still get these kinds of things wrong often. Miami chose Daunte Culpepper over Drew Brees to just name one.

If you want to tell me that you'd rather have Larry Fitzgerald than Michael Crabtree, and its not even close, I'm good with that. We've seen those guys play, and we more or less know who they are in the NFL.

However, there's more than just a small chance RG3 completely flops, and Flynn is at minimum at quality starter. Its also conceivable Flynn goes to a team with some dynamic weapons, and becomes the next Kurt Warner/Tom Brady.

Sorry for the rant.

Oh jesus, take it easy Packer fan. If I had to bet on who would be better, Id take RG3.

I guarantee a poll of NFL GM level personnel, the majority would take RG3 over Flynn.

Place Flynn in this draft where would he go?

guy has played in what 3 games? and I watched every second of everyone of them.

Could Flynn be hassleback? maybe, could he be a AJ Feely/Kolb/Matt Moore type? yep. He is far from bust proof

Sorry BSS. Its not just you. I really do hate that statement though.I'd agree with your assessment that most GMs would most likely prefer RG3. I'd also agree that Flynn is far from bust proof.

I've watched this game for a lot of years now, and have seen a ton of highly regarded prospects completely flop. I've also seen guys come out of nowhere to be the brightest stars in the league. Not saying either will happen here, just that its possible.

 

[amnesiac]

my vote is to try to sign Flynn, and if they can't do that, take BPA.

i'd even be willing to trade down for more picks.

Heckert is doing a great job with his 1st and 2nd round picks so far.

 

[Donnybrook]

I guarantee a poll of NFL GM level personnel, the majority would take RG3 over Flynn.

I am sure they would to but it doesn't answer the OP question. Poll NFL GM level personnel about taking Flynn (keeping all your draft picks) or RG3 (sacrificing more than two first rounders). It is probably closer than you think.

 

[massraider]

The picks don't matter to me too much.

Get the best guy. If the Browns think RGIII is a future star, then trading a late first and a 2nd is nothing. It's nothing.

The draft is the lifeblood of the NFL, and good teams build through the draft, but at this point in the season, they are overrated, by fans. Draft Day, it's no fun to watch when your team isn't picking a lot. And it is more interesting to imagine the possible combinations of the Browns two #1's, and #2, than it is to watch the team use all their picks at once, then ESPN doesn't talk about your team again all day.

But as a Browns fan, if you want a QB, and you want RGIII, and think he can be a stud, then the picks are worth it. If you are a Matt Flynn guy, and think he fits the offense better, and is going to be a better QB, of course you want to keep the picks.

I have no opinion, haven't seen any Baylor games, and I am nervous about the vet backup QB that is suddenly a hot commodity. But the picks shouldn't be the reason a team makes the move, getting the better QB should be the goal.

 

[Shutout]

It was pointed out in another thread that the Giants gave up 4 draft picks for Eli and all it got them was 2 championships.

Matt Flynn is a caretaker, Robert Griffin is a difference maker.

How do you KNOW that?I mean, one guy has played against NFL talent; the other hasn't.

Comparing college careers is a bit tricky because its against very different levels of talent in the conferences and they took different paths.

We DO know that RG3 has a higher ypc (4.1/2.7).

We DO know that RG3 had a better accuracy rate (in a different system, different team, etc).

But we also know that both of these guys threw a TD about once every 14 attempts.

So in some ways we can conject but in other ways the numbers say they are similar.

Not trying to argue it; just saying that I don't know how we can just casually throw out a blanket statement like that when we haven't been able to compare them equally.

I remember when Vince Young, Matt Leinart, and Jay cutler came out and Cutler, by and large, was the clear 3rd man in that pecking order. But in the NFL, he is clearly the #1.

I really think a lot of people look at Cam Newton from last year and are launching a lot of assumptions but people need to remember that Cam's situation was RARE; not the normal.

And with a guy like Colt McCOy. It seems it is a universal forgone conclusion that he is garbage. And I'm not saying I wouldn't dump him in a heartbeat for either Flynn or RG3, because I would. But even looking at him, it kind of reminds me of where drew Brees was at this point in his career. A LOT of similarities and, as we know, the Chargers gave up to soon and the Dolphins completely whiffed. And now Brees is Brees.

Just a couple of examples of how its really silly of us to assume things when a kid hasn't played a down and soemtimes even after when they have played a few seasons in the NFL. Like someone said, the QB position is the most important in the NFL, but that also means that it isn't the easiest position and sometimes people are wrong about evaluating these guys.

 

[BuckeyeChaos]

Just my 2 cents, but I find it amazing at how confident and stubborn and even aggressive most folks are about these types of discussions. As an earlier poster mentioned, most of us (if not all) have ZERO real expertise or data to back up our opinions and take no responsibility when we are wrong. Go ahead and pound your chests and proclaim that RG3 or Flynn will be star while the other one busts.

 

[Shutout]

I guarantee a poll of NFL GM level personnel, the majority would take RG3 over Flynn.

I am sure they would to but it doesn't answer the OP question. Poll NFL GM level personnel about taking Flynn (keeping all your draft picks) or RG3 (sacrificing more than two first rounders). It is probably closer than you think.

I agree. Its not as simple as just "pick one". In the Real world, there are guys weighing these things and GMs and coaches have short windows to produce. I'm sure they are thinking long and hard about whether they want to give away all their draft resources on one guy because you can't just wait around for 5 years until you have picks again that can get in there and playing.That's part of why I think this is an interesting topic and some of the Browns fans that have answered have pretty much went the way I thought they would on this. Last year, the Browns had the opportunity to draft a very dynamic difference maker in Julio Jones and they passed on it to get picks. So now, I'm not sure if they will trade all those picks and more to take something else.

In the end, I think RG3 HAS to be Cam Newton to make this a success if they give all the picks away. If he is Vince Young, its nice but they gave up so much. On the other hand, Flynn can be Matt Cassell and its still solid for them (with the picks intact). And if it ends up being AROD-lite, then they just turned their entire franchise around in one weekend. Imagine if Flynn is as productive as, say Romo (another unheralded guy that someone kept around and belived could play) and they get him and add Claiborne, Floyd, a RB in the 2nd, etc.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

They should sign Flynn to a 5 year, $75m fully guaranteed contract to be their franchise QB. Please, God, let this happen.

 

[MAC_32]

Is it really that simple? Coaches and GMs have short windows to produce a winning football team. RGIII could be a great QB but he may cost you the better part of two drafts. He may eventually have success but will the current coaching staff be there to reep the rewards. Luckily for the Browns free agency happens before the draft. What about this scenario for the Browns? Flynn in free agency and Tannehill at 4 in the draft. I admit it sound crazy but the Browns could afford to do it with rookie salary structure. I wonder if they say to themselves (like Vikes did last season), we are not going to get this oppertunity again next year.

I've said it before and I will say it 100 more until draft day.If we take any other QB before day 3 I will scream.We already have a decent QB, we don't need to waste a draft pick on another. if we go QB make it a potential elite one in the top 5 or wait and take a project late. Picks 22, 36, and 68 can be used so much better on other positions than another QB.

 

[King of the Jungle]

RGIII will sell jerseys. Flynn will not.

Flynn will sell jersey's if the team wins and he plays really well.

It is of my opinion that Flynn will not play well enough to sell jerseys.

 

[RevDawg]

Which is more likely - Flynn is the second coming of Matt Hasselbeck or RGIII is the second coming of Mike Vick?

The one of those that is more likely, I am in favor of.

 

[Tackling Dummies]

Trade down from 4 and collect more picks. Tannehill should be available as long as they don't drop too far down.

 

[Warhogs]

AS others have said this is more an opinion of mine and probably means very little but I'll share it. I think when a team has the amount of needs Cleveland has it makes more sense to sign a guy like Flynn to pair up with McCoy and then use those draft picks to fill the other needs the Browns have.

I'm not a big fan of paying a high price for a hot rookie QB prospect and then not have any pieces around him. I suppose you could just as easily argue to draft RGIII and sign free agents at WR and OL and RB to build around him.

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

Is it really that simple? Coaches and GMs have short windows to produce a winning football team. RGIII could be a great QB but he may cost you the better part of two drafts. He may eventually have success but will the current coaching staff be there to reep the rewards. Luckily for the Browns free agency happens before the draft. What about this scenario for the Browns? Flynn in free agency and Tannehill at 4 in the draft. I admit it sound crazy but the Browns could afford to do it with rookie salary structure. I wonder if they say to themselves (like Vikes did last season), we are not going to get this oppertunity again next year.

I've said it before and I will say it 100 more until draft day.If we take any other QB before day 3 I will scream.We already have a decent QB, we don't need to waste a draft pick on another. if we go QB make it a potential elite one in the top 5 or wait and take a project late. Picks 22, 36, and 68 can be used so much better on other positions than another QB.

MAC_32You're a good poster here, and clearly a long suffering Brown's fan. Think about what you are saying though. Look at Mike Holmgren's history with QBs. -He was a QB himself, good enough to play some for USC. He also got drafted by St Louis. -As a coach in college, he started at BYU, where he coached Robbie Bosco to a national championship, as well as Steve Young.-As an assistant coach (both QBs coach and OC) with San Francisco, he coached Joe Montana and Steve Young, winning 2 superbowls in 4 years. -As a head coach for the Packers, he coached Brett Favre to 3 MVPs, and two Superbowls.-As a head coach for the Seahawks, he coached Matt Hasselbeck to 3 ProBowls, and one Superbowl. Add to that the fact that by most accounts, he and Heckert nailed last years draft. They also know Colt McCoy better than anyone. Holmgren's certainly is going to get honest answers to questions about Flynn from Ted Thompson as well. He'll also have reams of tape and info on RG3, Tannehill, etc. Now, don't you think it might be wise to take a wait and see approach to how they handle the QB position?

 

[redBourne]

Is it really that simple? Coaches and GMs have short windows to produce a winning football team. RGIII could be a great QB but he may cost you the better part of two drafts. He may eventually have success but will the current coaching staff be there to reep the rewards. Luckily for the Browns free agency happens before the draft.

What about this scenario for the Browns? Flynn in free agency and Tannehill at 4 in the draft. I admit it sound crazy but the Browns could afford to do it with rookie salary structure. I wonder if they say to themselves (like Vikes did last season), we are not going to get this oppertunity again next year.

I've said it before and I will say it 100 more until draft day.If we take any other QB before day 3 I will scream.

We already have a decent QB, we don't need to waste a draft pick on another. if we go QB make it a potential elite one in the top 5 or wait and take a project late. Picks 22, 36, and 68 can be used so much better on other positions than another QB.

I have a Browns fan that cries to me this same request every day.

Let the WR's not drop passes.

Let the RB's stay consistent.

Hope for better play calling/coaching.

At least that's what I hear.

 

[BuckeyeChaos]

Is it really that simple? Coaches and GMs have short windows to produce a winning football team. RGIII could be a great QB but he may cost you the better part of two drafts. He may eventually have success but will the current coaching staff be there to reep the rewards. Luckily for the Browns free agency happens before the draft. What about this scenario for the Browns? Flynn in free agency and Tannehill at 4 in the draft. I admit it sound crazy but the Browns could afford to do it with rookie salary structure. I wonder if they say to themselves (like Vikes did last season), we are not going to get this oppertunity again next year.

I've said it before and I will say it 100 more until draft day.If we take any other QB before day 3 I will scream.We already have a decent QB, we don't need to waste a draft pick on another. if we go QB make it a potential elite one in the top 5 or wait and take a project late. Picks 22, 36, and 68 can be used so much better on other positions than another QB.

MAC_32You're a good poster here, and clearly a long suffering Brown's fan. Think about what you are saying though. Look at Mike Holmgren's history with QBs. -He was a QB himself, good enough to play some for USC. He also got drafted by St Louis. -As a coach in college, he started at BYU, where he coached Robbie Bosco to a national championship, as well as Steve Young.-As an assistant coach (both QBs coach and OC) with San Francisco, he coached Joe Montana and Steve Young, winning 2 superbowls in 4 years. -As a head coach for the Packers, he coached Brett Favre to 3 MVPs, and two Superbowls.-As a head coach for the Seahawks, he coached Matt Hasselbeck to 3 ProBowls, and one Superbowl. Add to that the fact that by most accounts, he and Heckert nailed last years draft. They also know Colt McCoy better than anyone. Holmgren's certainly is going to get honest answers to questions about Flynn from Ted Thompson as well. He'll also have reams of tape and info on RG3, Tannehill, etc. Now, don't you think it might be wise to take a wait and see approach to how they handle the QB position?

 

[Jason Wood]

Is it really that simple? Coaches and GMs have short windows to produce a winning football team. RGIII could be a great QB but he may cost you the better part of two drafts. He may eventually have success but will the current coaching staff be there to reep the rewards. Luckily for the Browns free agency happens before the draft. What about this scenario for the Browns? Flynn in free agency and Tannehill at 4 in the draft. I admit it sound crazy but the Browns could afford to do it with rookie salary structure. I wonder if they say to themselves (like Vikes did last season), we are not going to get this oppertunity again next year.

I've said it before and I will say it 100 more until draft day.If we take any other QB before day 3 I will scream.We already have a decent QB, we don't need to waste a draft pick on another. if we go QB make it a potential elite one in the top 5 or wait and take a project late. Picks 22, 36, and 68 can be used so much better on other positions than another QB.

MAC_32You're a good poster here, and clearly a long suffering Brown's fan. Think about what you are saying though. Look at Mike Holmgren's history with QBs. -He was a QB himself, good enough to play some for USC. He also got drafted by St Louis. -As a coach in college, he started at BYU, where he coached Robbie Bosco to a national championship, as well as Steve Young.-As an assistant coach (both QBs coach and OC) with San Francisco, he coached Joe Montana and Steve Young, winning 2 superbowls in 4 years. -As a head coach for the Packers, he coached Brett Favre to 3 MVPs, and two Superbowls.-As a head coach for the Seahawks, he coached Matt Hasselbeck to 3 ProBowls, and one Superbowl. Add to that the fact that by most accounts, he and Heckert nailed last years draft. They also know Colt McCoy better than anyone. Holmgren's certainly is going to get honest answers to questions about Flynn from Ted Thompson as well. He'll also have reams of tape and info on RG3, Tannehill, etc. Now, don't you think it might be wise to take a wait and see approach to how they handle the QB position?

Fantastic points all around

 

[MAC_32]

Is it really that simple? Coaches and GMs have short windows to produce a winning football team. RGIII could be a great QB but he may cost you the better part of two drafts. He may eventually have success but will the current coaching staff be there to reep the rewards. Luckily for the Browns free agency happens before the draft. What about this scenario for the Browns? Flynn in free agency and Tannehill at 4 in the draft. I admit it sound crazy but the Browns could afford to do it with rookie salary structure. I wonder if they say to themselves (like Vikes did last season), we are not going to get this oppertunity again next year.

I've said it before and I will say it 100 more until draft day.If we take any other QB before day 3 I will scream.We already have a decent QB, we don't need to waste a draft pick on another. if we go QB make it a potential elite one in the top 5 or wait and take a project late. Picks 22, 36, and 68 can be used so much better on other positions than another QB.

MAC_32You're a good poster here, and clearly a long suffering Brown's fan. Think about what you are saying though. Look at Mike Holmgren's history with QBs. -He was a QB himself, good enough to play some for USC. He also got drafted by St Louis. -As a coach in college, he started at BYU, where he coached Robbie Bosco to a national championship, as well as Steve Young.-As an assistant coach (both QBs coach and OC) with San Francisco, he coached Joe Montana and Steve Young, winning 2 superbowls in 4 years. -As a head coach for the Packers, he coached Brett Favre to 3 MVPs, and two Superbowls.-As a head coach for the Seahawks, he coached Matt Hasselbeck to 3 ProBowls, and one Superbowl. Add to that the fact that by most accounts, he and Heckert nailed last years draft. They also know Colt McCoy better than anyone. Holmgren's certainly is going to get honest answers to questions about Flynn from Ted Thompson as well. He'll also have reams of tape and info on RG3, Tannehill, etc. Now, don't you think it might be wise to take a wait and see approach to how they handle the QB position?

I've watched enough of Osweiler, Foles, Weeden, Cousins, and Tannehill to believe that none of them are worth early picks. If Tannehill fell deep into round 2 I wouldn't go nuts because he has some untapped potential the others do not. He's going to someone in round 1 though and that's a mistake. He has the ability, but he's an unfinished project. You don't take unfinished projects in the top 40-50 of the draft, good teams don't anyway. At the end of the day he made some maddeningly awful decisions throughout the year. Game-to-game, in-game, those sorts of inconsistencies will not work at the next level. Hell, it didn't work at the college level. A&M had other issues, but Tannehill's poor decision making helped lead to several of their losses. You can't take that risk in round 1.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

I've watched enough of Osweiler, Foles, Weeden, Cousins, and Tannehill to believe that none of them are worth early picks. If Tannehill fell deep into round 2 I wouldn't go nuts because he has some untapped potential the others do not. He's going to someone in round 1 though and that's a mistake. He has the ability, but he's an unfinished project. You don't take unfinished projects in the top 40-50 of the draft, good teams don't anyway.

All the names you mentioned are dime a dozens imo, but Cousins is going to be successful. Someone is going to get a really good QB when they take that kid. Unbelievable leader, very smart, solid guy, and a winner.....and this is coming from a diehard U of M fan. I look at this kid and think he could be the next Brees.

 

[jurb26]

I've watched enough of Osweiler, Foles, Weeden, Cousins, and Tannehill to believe that none of them are worth early picks. If Tannehill fell deep into round 2 I wouldn't go nuts because he has some untapped potential the others do not. He's going to someone in round 1 though and that's a mistake. He has the ability, but he's an unfinished project. You don't take unfinished projects in the top 40-50 of the draft, good teams don't anyway. At the end of the day he made some maddeningly awful decisions throughout the year. Game-to-game, in-game, those sorts of inconsistencies will not work at the next level. Hell, it didn't work at the college level. A&M had other issues, but Tannehill's poor decision making helped lead to several of their losses. You can't take that risk in round 1.

Yeah, taking Tannehill at 1.04 would be a huge mistake IMO. The guy is a 2nd round caliber player if you ask me. I could understand late 1st, but reaching at 1.04 is just silly given the talent available there. If Clev bring Flynn in then I don't see any other need to rush to draft a QB. If RG3 is your guy then you go get him but no other QB in this draft (Luck removed) is worth going after that aggressively. Clev has a lot of holes and they could drastically upgrade with Flynn, 1.04 and 1.22 if they hit them right.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Is it really that simple? Coaches and GMs have short windows to produce a winning football team. RGIII could be a great QB but he may cost you the better part of two drafts. He may eventually have success but will the current coaching staff be there to reep the rewards. Luckily for the Browns free agency happens before the draft. What about this scenario for the Browns? Flynn in free agency and Tannehill at 4 in the draft. I admit it sound crazy but the Browns could afford to do it with rookie salary structure. I wonder if they say to themselves (like Vikes did last season), we are not going to get this oppertunity again next year.

I've said it before and I will say it 100 more until draft day.If we take any other QB before day 3 I will scream.We already have a decent QB, we don't need to waste a draft pick on another. if we go QB make it a potential elite one in the top 5 or wait and take a project late. Picks 22, 36, and 68 can be used so much better on other positions than another QB.

MAC_32You're a good poster here, and clearly a long suffering Brown's fan. Think about what you are saying though. Look at Mike Holmgren's history with QBs. -He was a QB himself, good enough to play some for USC. He also got drafted by St Louis. -As a coach in college, he started at BYU, where he coached Robbie Bosco to a national championship, as well as Steve Young.-As an assistant coach (both QBs coach and OC) with San Francisco, he coached Joe Montana and Steve Young, winning 2 superbowls in 4 years. -As a head coach for the Packers, he coached Brett Favre to 3 MVPs, and two Superbowls.-As a head coach for the Seahawks, he coached Matt Hasselbeck to 3 ProBowls, and one Superbowl. Add to that the fact that by most accounts, he and Heckert nailed last years draft. They also know Colt McCoy better than anyone. Holmgren's certainly is going to get honest answers to questions about Flynn from Ted Thompson as well. He'll also have reams of tape and info on RG3, Tannehill, etc. Now, don't you think it might be wise to take a wait and see approach to how they handle the QB position?

I've watched enough of Osweiler, Foles, Weeden, Cousins, and Tannehill to believe that none of them are worth early picks. If Tannehill fell deep into round 2 I wouldn't go nuts because he has some untapped potential the others do not. He's going to someone in round 1 though and that's a mistake. He has the ability, but he's an unfinished project. You don't take unfinished projects in the top 40-50 of the draft, good teams don't anyway. At the end of the day he made some maddeningly awful decisions throughout the year. Game-to-game, in-game, those sorts of inconsistencies will not work at the next level. Hell, it didn't work at the college level. A&M had other issues, but Tannehill's poor decision making helped lead to several of their losses. You can't take that risk in round 1.

What if the Browns add:1.4-Riley Reiff RT1.22-Kendall Wright WR2.5-Doug Martin RB3.4-Kirk Cousins QBI would be happy if I was a Browns fan and that was the draft.

 

[jurb26]

What if the Browns add:1.4-Riley Reiff RT1.22-Kendall Wright WR2.5-Doug Martin RB3.4-Kirk Cousins QBI would be happy if I was a Browns fan and that was the draft.

If I'm the Brown's I think I'd look to do this;1.04 - M. Claiborne CB - Wright is old and they could sure up their secondary with a Claiborne/Haden tandem.1.22 - J. Martin T - Clev needs help on the right side badly and Martin could easily fall to this pick.2.05 - D. Wilson RB - you say Martin, I say Wilson. It's just preference and I like Wilson more. Either way Clev can add a very good RB to their team with this pick.3.04 - BPAI'd look to address WR in FA this off-season seeing that there is very good talent out there. Perhaps there is a WR they fall in love with and they could pick early, for instance they could take Blackmon 1.04 if they really wanted too and address CB later.

 

[Jason Wood]

Fans always want teams to take some QB in the 2nd or 3rd round in some dream scenario where they hit on the next Drew Brees, so as not to "mortgage" their draft. Yet, for every Drew Brees there are dozens of Kellen Clemens and -- yes, Colt McCoys. In a league that's every increasingly driven by the passing game, you need a special player at QB. Paying the price is more than worth it if the GM gets the pick right. Is there risk? Of course, but it's the GM and his staff's jobs to make the right pick. That's what they're paid for. If they screw it up, so be it. Live with the outcome and move on. But this notion that we all romanticize the "other" QB in a draft class rarely turns out for the best.

 

[redBourne]

I've watched enough of Osweiler, Foles, Weeden, Cousins, and Tannehill to believe that none of them are worth early picks. If Tannehill fell deep into round 2 I wouldn't go nuts because he has some untapped potential the others do not. He's going to someone in round 1 though and that's a mistake. He has the ability, but he's an unfinished project. You don't take unfinished projects in the top 40-50 of the draft, good teams don't anyway. At the end of the day he made some maddeningly awful decisions throughout the year. Game-to-game, in-game, those sorts of inconsistencies will not work at the next level. Hell, it didn't work at the college level. A&M had other issues, but Tannehill's poor decision making helped lead to several of their losses. You can't take that risk in round 1.

Yeah, taking Tannehill at 1.04 would be a huge mistake IMO. The guy is a 2nd round caliber player if you ask me. I could understand late 1st, but reaching at 1.04 is just silly given the talent available there. If Clev bring Flynn in then I don't see any other need to rush to draft a QB. If RG3 is your guy then you go get him but no other QB in this draft (Luck removed) is worth going after that aggressively. Clev has a lot of holes and they could drastically upgrade with Flynn, 1.04 and 1.22 if they hit them right.

Sorry to quote you specifically, but I don't know why everyone is so enamored with Flynn and why they think he's better than so many other quarterbacks in the league right now. What has he proven? So many people automatically consider him above and away better than McCoy and I just can't fathom why. Do they think Flynn will come in and automatically correct the dropsies the WR's have, or the inconsistency at the RB position? /sarcastic eyeroll/

 

[jurb26]

I've watched enough of Osweiler, Foles, Weeden, Cousins, and Tannehill to believe that none of them are worth early picks. If Tannehill fell deep into round 2 I wouldn't go nuts because he has some untapped potential the others do not. He's going to someone in round 1 though and that's a mistake. He has the ability, but he's an unfinished project. You don't take unfinished projects in the top 40-50 of the draft, good teams don't anyway. At the end of the day he made some maddeningly awful decisions throughout the year. Game-to-game, in-game, those sorts of inconsistencies will not work at the next level. Hell, it didn't work at the college level. A&M had other issues, but Tannehill's poor decision making helped lead to several of their losses. You can't take that risk in round 1.

Yeah, taking Tannehill at 1.04 would be a huge mistake IMO. The guy is a 2nd round caliber player if you ask me. I could understand late 1st, but reaching at 1.04 is just silly given the talent available there. If Clev bring Flynn in then I don't see any other need to rush to draft a QB. If RG3 is your guy then you go get him but no other QB in this draft (Luck removed) is worth going after that aggressively. Clev has a lot of holes and they could drastically upgrade with Flynn, 1.04 and 1.22 if they hit them right.

Sorry to quote you specifically, but I don't know why everyone is so enamored with Flynn and why they think he's better than so many other quarterbacks in the league right now. What has he proven? So many people automatically consider him above and away better than McCoy and I just can't fathom why. Do they think Flynn will come in and automatically correct the dropsies the WR's have, or the inconsistency at the RB position? /sarcastic eyeroll/

I'm not enamored with Flynn at all. All I'm saying is if Clev feels the price for RG3 is too much they can add Flynn and not rush to just add an average QB prospect because they have a need. Especially not with the 1.04 or 1.22 picks. I think any of the QBs not named Luck or RG3 going that early is just plain foolish. As I said in my post, if Clev feels RG3 is the guy to turn their franchise around then they should just do what it takes to get him. If not, there are options.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

Fans always want teams to take some QB in the 2nd or 3rd round in some dream scenario where they hit on the next Drew Brees, so as not to "mortgage" their draft. Yet, for every Drew Brees there are dozens of Kellen Clemens and -- yes, Colt McCoys. In a league that's every increasingly driven by the passing game, you need a special player at QB. Paying the price is more than worth it if the GM gets the pick right. Is there risk? Of course, but it's the GM and his staff's jobs to make the right pick. That's what they're paid for. If they screw it up, so be it. Live with the outcome and move on. But this notion that we all romanticize the "other" QB in a draft class rarely turns out for the best.

Define special player at QB. Jake Locker

Blaine "Sunshine" Gabbert

Christian Ponder

Tim Tebow

Mark Sanchez

Jamarcus Russell

Brady Quinn

Vince Young

Matt Leinart

Jason Campbell

JP Losman

Byron Leftwich

Kyle Boller

David Carr

Joey Harrington

Patrick Ramsey

Tim Couch

Ryan Leaf

Jim Druckenmiller

Heath Shuler

Rick Mirer

David Klingler

Tommy Maddox

Dan McGwire

Todd Marinovich

Jeff George

Andre Ware

 

[redBourne]

I've watched enough of Osweiler, Foles, Weeden, Cousins, and Tannehill to believe that none of them are worth early picks. If Tannehill fell deep into round 2 I wouldn't go nuts because he has some untapped potential the others do not. He's going to someone in round 1 though and that's a mistake. He has the ability, but he's an unfinished project. You don't take unfinished projects in the top 40-50 of the draft, good teams don't anyway. At the end of the day he made some maddeningly awful decisions throughout the year. Game-to-game, in-game, those sorts of inconsistencies will not work at the next level. Hell, it didn't work at the college level. A&M had other issues, but Tannehill's poor decision making helped lead to several of their losses. You can't take that risk in round 1.

Yeah, taking Tannehill at 1.04 would be a huge mistake IMO. The guy is a 2nd round caliber player if you ask me. I could understand late 1st, but reaching at 1.04 is just silly given the talent available there. If Clev bring Flynn in then I don't see any other need to rush to draft a QB. If RG3 is your guy then you go get him but no other QB in this draft (Luck removed) is worth going after that aggressively. Clev has a lot of holes and they could drastically upgrade with Flynn, 1.04 and 1.22 if they hit them right.

Sorry to quote you specifically, but I don't know why everyone is so enamored with Flynn and why they think he's better than so many other quarterbacks in the league right now. What has he proven? So many people automatically consider him above and away better than McCoy and I just can't fathom why. Do they think Flynn will come in and automatically correct the dropsies the WR's have, or the inconsistency at the RB position? /sarcastic eyeroll/

I'm not enamored with Flynn at all. All I'm saying is if Clev feels the price for RG3 is too much they can add Flynn and not rush to just add an average QB prospect because they have a need. Especially not with the 1.04 or 1.22 picks. I think any of the QBs not named Luck or RG3 going that early is just plain foolish. As I said in my post, if Clev feels RG3 is the guy to turn their franchise around then they should just do what it takes to get him. If not, there are options.

I apologize sir, I misread your post. Thanks for the clarification. If not just for me, hopefully it's clarified for someone else too.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Fans always want teams to take some QB in the 2nd or 3rd round in some dream scenario where they hit on the next Drew Brees, so as not to "mortgage" their draft. Yet, for every Drew Brees there are dozens of Kellen Clemens and -- yes, Colt McCoys. In a league that's every increasingly driven by the passing game, you need a special player at QB. Paying the price is more than worth it if the GM gets the pick right. Is there risk? Of course, but it's the GM and his staff's jobs to make the right pick. That's what they're paid for. If they screw it up, so be it. Live with the outcome and move on. But this notion that we all romanticize the "other" QB in a draft class rarely turns out for the best.

If you have a good running game and defense you don't need a special player at QB. Ravens, 49ers, Houston. It's cheaper to build a team that way now, versus unloading a ton of picks for a chance of a special QB.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

Fans always want teams to take some QB in the 2nd or 3rd round in some dream scenario where they hit on the next Drew Brees, so as not to "mortgage" their draft. Yet, for every Drew Brees there are dozens of Kellen Clemens and -- yes, Colt McCoys. In a league that's every increasingly driven by the passing game, you need a special player at QB. Paying the price is more than worth it if the GM gets the pick right. Is there risk? Of course, but it's the GM and his staff's jobs to make the right pick. That's what they're paid for. If they screw it up, so be it. Live with the outcome and move on. But this notion that we all romanticize the "other" QB in a draft class rarely turns out for the best.

If you have a good running game and defense you don't need a special player at QB. Ravens, 49ers, Houston. It's cheaper to build a team that way now, versus unloading a ton of picks for a chance of a special QB.

Sounds about right coming from a Bears fan.

 

[MAC_32]

I've watched enough of Osweiler, Foles, Weeden, Cousins, and Tannehill to believe that none of them are worth early picks. If Tannehill fell deep into round 2 I wouldn't go nuts because he has some untapped potential the others do not. He's going to someone in round 1 though and that's a mistake. He has the ability, but he's an unfinished project. You don't take unfinished projects in the top 40-50 of the draft, good teams don't anyway.

All the names you mentioned are dime a dozens imo, but Cousins is going to be successful. Someone is going to get a really good QB when they take that kid. Unbelievable leader, very smart, solid guy, and a winner.....and this is coming from a diehard U of M fan. I look at this kid and think he could be the next Brees.

Cousins is the dumbest smart QB I've ever seen. He looks the part for 90% of the game, but when the game is on the line he has this uncanny ability to make a back breaking and mind numbingly bad decision to blow it.I don't want any part of that.And I like him more than both Foles and Weeden. They're all sorts of messy all around. Osweiler only interests me if he falls. far. He has the tools but needs a lot of work.In the end all else equal I want RG3-Flynn-Colt. Nobody else after RG3 unless Tannehill stunningly falls interests me. We'd be better served seeing if Colt can adjust with better weapons around him.

 

[MAC_32]

Is it really that simple? Coaches and GMs have short windows to produce a winning football team. RGIII could be a great QB but he may cost you the better part of two drafts. He may eventually have success but will the current coaching staff be there to reep the rewards. Luckily for the Browns free agency happens before the draft. What about this scenario for the Browns? Flynn in free agency and Tannehill at 4 in the draft. I admit it sound crazy but the Browns could afford to do it with rookie salary structure. I wonder if they say to themselves (like Vikes did last season), we are not going to get this oppertunity again next year.

I've said it before and I will say it 100 more until draft day.If we take any other QB before day 3 I will scream.We already have a decent QB, we don't need to waste a draft pick on another. if we go QB make it a potential elite one in the top 5 or wait and take a project late. Picks 22, 36, and 68 can be used so much better on other positions than another QB.

MAC_32You're a good poster here, and clearly a long suffering Brown's fan. Think about what you are saying though. Look at Mike Holmgren's history with QBs. -He was a QB himself, good enough to play some for USC. He also got drafted by St Louis. -As a coach in college, he started at BYU, where he coached Robbie Bosco to a national championship, as well as Steve Young.-As an assistant coach (both QBs coach and OC) with San Francisco, he coached Joe Montana and Steve Young, winning 2 superbowls in 4 years. -As a head coach for the Packers, he coached Brett Favre to 3 MVPs, and two Superbowls.-As a head coach for the Seahawks, he coached Matt Hasselbeck to 3 ProBowls, and one Superbowl. Add to that the fact that by most accounts, he and Heckert nailed last years draft. They also know Colt McCoy better than anyone. Holmgren's certainly is going to get honest answers to questions about Flynn from Ted Thompson as well. He'll also have reams of tape and info on RG3, Tannehill, etc. Now, don't you think it might be wise to take a wait and see approach to how they handle the QB position?

I've watched enough of Osweiler, Foles, Weeden, Cousins, and Tannehill to believe that none of them are worth early picks. If Tannehill fell deep into round 2 I wouldn't go nuts because he has some untapped potential the others do not. He's going to someone in round 1 though and that's a mistake. He has the ability, but he's an unfinished project. You don't take unfinished projects in the top 40-50 of the draft, good teams don't anyway. At the end of the day he made some maddeningly awful decisions throughout the year. Game-to-game, in-game, those sorts of inconsistencies will not work at the next level. Hell, it didn't work at the college level. A&M had other issues, but Tannehill's poor decision making helped lead to several of their losses. You can't take that risk in round 1.

What if the Browns add:1.4-Riley Reiff RT1.22-Kendall Wright WR2.5-Doug Martin RB3.4-Kirk Cousins QBI would be happy if I was a Browns fan and that was the draft.

Replace Reiff with Claiborne and Cousins with...someone else.If we choose Claiborne over Blackmon and Richardson we HAVE to get something like Wright + Martin to work. If we miss offensive skill position players again there will be a revolt in Berea.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Browns need playmakers desperately. They have for years. I think the only one of recent is a special teamer.

Get RG3 if going QB.

 

[elguapo07]

Nothing to add other than this is an excellent discussion - keep it up fellas!