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SI.com article on 16 year-old Bryce Harper (1 Viewer)

Looks like the Nats intend on picking this kid first this year. So in back to back years the Nationals may have selected Strasburg and Harper - have there ever been more hyped players to go to the same team in consecutive years? Nationals better hope at least one pans out for the amount of money they will have invested in these guys.

http://masnsports.com/the_goessling_game/2...-no-1-pick.html
According to Rotoworld hes lost a bit of his luster recently
 
Looks like the Nats intend on picking this kid first this year. So in back to back years the Nationals may have selected Strasburg and Harper - have there ever been more hyped players to go to the same team in consecutive years? Nationals better hope at least one pans out for the amount of money they will have invested in these guys.

http://masnsports.com/the_goessling_game/2...-no-1-pick.html
According to Rotoworld hes lost a bit of his luster recently
I don't think it matters. The kid is 16 years old with the "luster" of a 20 year old with a couple years of college sprinkled in. They have 4 years to polish this kid, I am sure they wont mind if he doesn't look so hot at 16.

 
Looks like the Nats intend on picking this kid first this year. So in back to back years the Nationals may have selected Strasburg and Harper - have there ever been more hyped players to go to the same team in consecutive years? Nationals better hope at least one pans out for the amount of money they will have invested in these guys.

http://masnsports.com/the_goessling_game/2...-no-1-pick.html
According to Rotoworld hes lost a bit of his luster recently
They're nuts. The kid has 15 bombs (so far) as a 17 year old in a competitive JUCO league. As a catcher.S-T-U-D

 
Looks like the Nats intend on picking this kid first this year. So in back to back years the Nationals may have selected Strasburg and Harper - have there ever been more hyped players to go to the same team in consecutive years? Nationals better hope at least one pans out for the amount of money they will have invested in these guys.

http://masnsports.com/the_goessling_game/2...-no-1-pick.html
According to Rotoworld hes lost a bit of his luster recently
They're nuts. The kid has 15 bombs (so far) as a 17 year old in a competitive JUCO league. As a catcher.S-T-U-D
Hitting with wood bats.The guy is clearly overhyped. He's the consensus best positional prospect in the draft, it just happens to be a weak draft year and especially weak for hitters.

 
The expectations are so huge, anything less than a Pujols like career will be a disappointment.

 
Looks like the Nats intend on picking this kid first this year. So in back to back years the Nationals may have selected Strasburg and Harper - have there ever been more hyped players to go to the same team in consecutive years? Nationals better hope at least one pans out for the amount of money they will have invested in these guys.

http://masnsports.com/the_goessling_game/2...-no-1-pick.html
According to Rotoworld hes lost a bit of his luster recently
They're nuts. The kid has 15 bombs (so far) as a 17 year old in a competitive JUCO league. As a catcher.S-T-U-D
Hitting with wood bats.The guy is clearly overhyped. He's the consensus best positional prospect in the draft, it just happens to be a weak draft year and especially weak for hitters.
Most scouts say power is one of the, if not THE, last thing to develop in a prospect. This guy hitting 15 HRs in a competitive JUCO league this early in the season is looking pretty projectable at this point.
 
Player avg gp-gs ab r h 2b 3b hr rbi tb slg% bb hbp so gdp ob% sf sh sb-att po a e fld% Harper, Bryce .422 39-39 128 48 54 13 1 15 42 114 .891 25 1 25 1 .516 1 0 12-14 177 13 4 .979
Note the slugging. He's only thrown out like 3 of 20 base stealers, but again, the kid is only 17. There is absolutely zero chance "he's lost some of his luster" this year. That's just stupid.

 
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Looks like the Nats intend on picking this kid first this year. So in back to back years the Nationals may have selected Strasburg and Harper - have there ever been more hyped players to go to the same team in consecutive years? Nationals better hope at least one pans out for the amount of money they will have invested in these guys.

http://masnsports.com/the_goessling_game/2...-no-1-pick.html
According to Rotoworld hes lost a bit of his luster recently
They're nuts. The kid has 15 bombs (so far) as a 17 year old in a competitive JUCO league. As a catcher.S-T-U-D
Hitting with wood bats.The guy is clearly overhyped. He's the consensus best positional prospect in the draft, it just happens to be a weak draft year and especially weak for hitters.
He'd be the consensus best positional prospect in pretty much any year. He is anything but overhyped.

 
He'd be the consensus best positional prospect in pretty much any year. He is anything but overhyped.
The comparison is a little unfair to Harper, because he left high school after his sophomore year and Mauer departed after his senior season. But I like the question, so I'll play along. Mauer went No. 1 overall in the 2001 draft, and Harper currently is the top-rated prospect for the 2010 draft as he enters his freshman season at the CC of Southern Nevada as a 17-year-old.There's no question that Harper received more hype, appearing on the cover of Sports Illustrated last June, with the magazine calling him "Baseball's LeBron." Harper has been the focus of more predraft attention than any player ever, including Stephen Strasburg a year ago.Nevertheless, Mauer was the better prospect coming out of high school. Harper rates an edge for his prodigious power, but Mauer was a better hitter, better defender and better athlete. They had comparable arm strength, but Mauer threw better in games because he had a quicker release and moved better behind the plate.The excessive hype is getting to scouting directors, some of whom are beginning to wonder is Harper is more of a showcase standout, and perhaps even to Harper himself. He seemed overanxious at the Aflac All-American Game last August, going 0-for-5 with three strikeouts in front of a national television audience on Fox Sports Network, and hit .294 with two homers in eight games at the Pan American Junior Championships in October.Then again, for a then-16-year-old to compare favorably to an 18-year-old who went on to win three American League batting titles and one MVP award in first five full big league seasons speaks well for Harper. He'll be under the microscope more than any junior college player in draft history.
You mention Harper's rare power, but could you give current and future scouting scale projections for both his bat, and his power? One scout said "90" for power, but perhaps that's an outlier opinion.Jim Callis (2:31 PM)It's 80 raw power. Opinions vary on the bat. I'd project him as a 50-55 hitter on the 20-80 scale. He's a potential .275/40 HR guy.
2010/2011 draft comparisons: Harper or Rendon? Taillon or Gray? How far are these guys apart?Klaw (1:47 PM)Rendon over Harper - the surer and closer thing, even though I am a big believer in Harper's long-term potential. Gray over Taillon.
He's certainly behind Justin Upton and if you go farther back ARod, not sure about Tim Beckham, Dustin Ackley, Evan Longoria, and whoever was the top positional prospect in 2007 (Wieters was picked 5th behind Vitters and Moustakus). And when you add in pitchers, he certainly wouldnt be a slam dunk #1 in alot of years - say for instance, last year.
 
I'll give you Justin Upton but the others are all hindsight. Sure, he'd be behind some of those guys now that they're established all-stars but most of those guys weren't even the first pick in their own draft.

He's 17 and given what he's doing right now - right or wrong - he'd likely be the top pick in most drafts.

 
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I'll give you Justin Upton but the others are all hindsight. Sure, he'd be behind some of those guys now that they're established all-stars but most of those guys weren't even the first pick in their own draft.He's 17 and given what he's doing right now - right or wrong - he'd likely be the top pick in most drafts.
ARod certainly wasnt hindsight, and the guys I listed were all the first positional players picked in their drafts. Jim Callis of Baseball America in his chat yesterday said he rates Harper as a 50-55 hitter and 80 raw power on the 20-80 scale and sees a .275 avg/40 HR peak for Harper. Thats a great player, especially one that projects to stay behind the plate, but he's young and needs alot of projection and development. Meanwhile, in the same chat he said of Ackley: "He's still going to win a big league batting title some day. Can't tell you how many scouts told me he's the best college hiter they've seen in the last 20 years." I don't think Tim Beckham was all that hyped, but Longoria was extremely well thought of, not selected 1st overall - but the Royals shocked everyone with the Hochevar pick. Prior to that you have Matt Bush as a horrible first selection, maybe the worst of all time. Then the next 4 #1 overall positional players selected are Delmon Young, Joe Mauer, Adrian Gonzalez, and Josh Hamilton in 1999. As far as draft prospects, Adrian Gonzalez was probably the worst of that bunch, but Mauer Hamilton and Young were all thought of as surefire future stars.This isnt even including pitchers like Strasberg, Price and Prior. Harper certainly wouldnt be selected over any of those guys on pure talent. The kid is a deserving first pick, he's likely a future star at the MLB level, but he's not close to the hype in that SI article or any of the hype since. In comparision, Strasberg really was deserving of all the hype. He was the best pitching prospect anyone could remember. He was MLB ready immediately upon drafting and the only worry with him it standard injury risks.
 
The kid is a deserving first pick, he's likely a future star at the MLB level, but he's not close to the hype in that SI article or any of the hype since. In comparision, Strasberg really was deserving of all the hype. He was the best pitching prospect anyone could remember. He was MLB ready immediately upon drafting and the only worry with him it standard injury risks.
I agree on Strasberg. Still think that by the end of this season - assuming he continues to do what he's doing now - that Harper will be worthy of the hype he's received. Way too early to say he's simply a "showcase" talent. Showcase talents don't hit the way he's hitting as a 17 year old against JUCO players. Also too early to limit his upside as a hitter to 50-55.
 
Looks like the Nats intend on picking this kid first this year. So in back to back years the Nationals may have selected Strasburg and Harper - have there ever been more hyped players to go to the same team in consecutive years? Nationals better hope at least one pans out for the amount of money they will have invested in these guys.

http://masnsports.com/the_goessling_game/2...-no-1-pick.html
Both guys are bargains. They'd go for double their total contract value on the open market (assuming something in the 10-12 million for Harper, based on nothing more than a guess).
 
No schtick:

I remember last year Strasburg was available in sportsline leagues before draft. I added him on 5/25/09 and the draft was the first week of June. I keep checking every now any then for Harper so I can roster him on my farm squad.

 
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Hence the

Sportsline hasn't added him yet. What gives??
I paid $20 FAAB for Strasburg last year just to keep him from getting scooped up by one of my enemies for next to nothing. CBS ####### blows huge, massive chunks.
 
Matthias said:
Strasburg was drafted in our league last year; I was half expecting to see Harper drafted this year.
Harper was picked in the reserve draft in my NL-only league. League rules context: he can be kept for 2 years as a minor-leaguer, but must be active-rostered by the start of 2013 or thrown back into the pool. Too big of a risk in my book. If it's a perpetual keeper type league, he should have been picked, imo.
 
17, with a wood bat.

Harper lifts CSN to Junior College World SeriesFour HRs, 10 RBIs power CSN to titleBy MATT YOUMANSLAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNALCSN 25 - CENTRAL ARIZONA 11KEY: Bryce Harper went 6-for-6 with four home runs and 10 RBIs for the Coyotes in the championship game.Bryce HarperGOES 6-FOR-6 WITH FOUR HOMERS and 10 RBIS IN TITLE GAMELAMAR, Colo. -- On a sweltering, wind-swept afternoon in a nondescript town, Bryce Harper grabbed a bat and took his best shots, and in doing so he authored another colorful tale that will be retold for years by the few who witnessed it.Harper's brief baseball career at the College of Southern Nevada could have ended Saturday. The 17-year-old from Las Vegas High School is the favorite to be the No. 1 pick in next month's major league draft, and he knew that future might be closing in on him.The Coyotes, who lost earlier in the day, were preparing for the winner-take-all championship game in the double-elimination NJCAA Western District Tournament.This tiny town is best known for hosting the annual High Plains Snow Goose Festival, and there was a chance it also was about to be remembered as the place where Harper played his final college game."That was in my mind. I did not want that to happen," he said. "I came into this game saying, 'I need to pick it up for my team,' … and maybe hit a few bombs."Harper did better than that, hitting four home runs to lead CSN to a 25-11 victory over Central Arizona and launch the Coyotes (49-14) to next weekend's Junior College World Series in Grand Junction, Colo."From the first day, all of us said we're going to Grand Junction. That's our dream, and that's what we're going to do," he said.Harper also doubled and tripled and finished the game 6-for-6 with 10 RBIs. He homered in the second, fourth, fifth and seventh innings.The 6-foot-3-inch slugger hit for the cycle Friday, and he needed just a single in his final at-bat to do it again. Instead, he ripped a two-run homer to center."Some people said, 'He needs a single for cycle.' I said, 'I don't care. I want him to hit another home run,' " CSN coach Tim Chambers said. "Bryce had a great day."The Coyotes were pushed to the limit after losing 21-14 in Saturday's opener. Willie Johnson, Bryan Karraker and A.J. Schugel each hit two home runs as Central Arizona rolled to a 21-4 lead.With temperatures in the mid-90s and winds gusting out at about 45 mph, the teams combined for 11 homers in the first game and 10 in the second game.The Vaqueros (46-20) took a 3-0 lead in the first inning of the championship."We knew they could hit. We knew they were going to come out fired up, and they did," said Chambers, who guided the Coyotes to their only national championship in 2003. "I didn't panic, and the kids didn't panic when they went up 3-0. We knew we were going to put a bunch of runs up on the board."Harper's three-run homer, followed by Trent Cook's solo shot, put CSN ahead 6-4 in the second inning. Harper and Cook hit back-to-back homers again in the fifth to increase the lead to 15-5."I knew we would come back, and I knew I would stop giving up runs and do my job better," CSN right-hander Kenny McDowall said. "I had no doubt in my mind that we were going to win."McDowall struck out 11 in six innings to earn the win. Donn Roach and Aaron Kurcz finished the game for the Coyotes, who prevailed in part because they had a deeper pitching staffScott Dysinger and Daniel Higa each homered as CSN piled up a season-high 27 hits.Harper finished 2-for-5 with a three-run double in the first game, when Cook and Trevor Kirk hit the Coyotes' only homers.Harper, who said the high winds were a "huge factor" in the astronomical offensive numbers for both teams, credited Central Arizona's pitchers for challenging him."I felt really comfortable up there, and I knew they were going to come at me. Those kids are competitors, and they want to blow the ball past you," he said. "To have a team come at me like that, it was awesome."I'm a little tired. Everybody is tired, but we're all really happy right now."
 
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This dope will Marinovich himself out of baseball within 3 years. That dopey face paint is all I need to know about his makeup, no pun intended.

 
This dope will Marinovich himself out of baseball within 3 years. That dopey face paint is all I need to know about his makeup, no pun intended.
I read he ditched the war paint over a year ago. That was something he was doing in highschool.
Fair enough, but thats whats splashed in all the vids and on the cover of ESPN.com. Willing to stand corrected on the paint. I still think he'll flake though. Bred sports machines usually do, although the Williams sisters have held it together.
 
This dope will Marinovich himself out of baseball within 3 years. That dopey face paint is all I need to know about his makeup, no pun intended.
I read he ditched the war paint over a year ago. That was something he was doing in highschool.
Fair enough, but thats whats splashed in all the vids and on the cover of ESPN.com. Willing to stand corrected on the paint. I still think he'll flake though. Bred sports machines usually do, although the Williams sisters have held it together.
You know everything you need to know about the makeup of a 17 year old kid from how he wore his eye-black? Really?
 
dparker713 said:
Smack Tripper said:
This dope will Marinovich himself out of baseball within 3 years. That dopey face paint is all I need to know about his makeup, no pun intended.
I read he ditched the war paint over a year ago. That was something he was doing in highschool.
Fair enough, but thats whats splashed in all the vids and on the cover of ESPN.com. Willing to stand corrected on the paint. I still think he'll flake though. Bred sports machines usually do, although the Williams sisters have held it together.
You know everything you need to know about the makeup of a 17 year old kid from how he wore his eye-black? Really?
Yes, in a way.Because it shows to me he's a kid at 16 who doesn't have much guidance from his coaches or parents to be that high profile and to allow himself to look like such a clown when he's inserted himself into a spot light. The parenting came into question for me when they let him do this GED stunt. I deal with stage parents in my industry, and rarely if even to I find they have the best interests of their kid at heart. Rather, they're prone to get swept up in the whirlwind of whatever goes on in their child's life. Instead of parenting, they are managing. As far as his coachability, the kid has already shown himself to be a hothead, having multiple ejections. I'm really curious to see how this kid handles adversity, which is bound to find him in baseball.This post will no doubt be quite bumpable if I'm wrong, and as a young man, I wish him well and hope get goes to the HOF. If the Yanks could have drafted him, I would have been happy to, but with the aforementioned reservations. If I'm wrong, and I hope I am for his sake, I'll be happy to admit it.
 
why was the GED a bad thing? IMO, it would be way worse having him get intentionally walked by HS pitchers for the next 2 years.

Its not its the NFL where he'll have 2 years before he's a bust. This kid could spend the next 5 years out of the spot light in the minors and nobody would care as long as he continued to progress.

 
Smack Tripper said:
dparker713 said:
Smack Tripper said:
This dope will Marinovich himself out of baseball within 3 years. That dopey face paint is all I need to know about his makeup, no pun intended.
I read he ditched the war paint over a year ago. That was something he was doing in highschool.
Fair enough, but thats whats splashed in all the vids and on the cover of ESPN.com. Willing to stand corrected on the paint. I still think he'll flake though. Bred sports machines usually do, although the Williams sisters have held it together.
You know everything you need to know about the makeup of a 17 year old kid from how he wore his eye-black? Really?
Yes, in a way.Because it shows to me he's a kid at 16 who doesn't have much guidance from his coaches or parents to be that high profile and to allow himself to look like such a clown when he's inserted himself into a spot light. The parenting came into question for me when they let him do this GED stunt. I deal with stage parents in my industry, and rarely if even to I find they have the best interests of their kid at heart. Rather, they're prone to get swept up in the whirlwind of whatever goes on in their child's life. Instead of parenting, they are managing. As far as his coachability, the kid has already shown himself to be a hothead, having multiple ejections. I'm really curious to see how this kid handles adversity, which is bound to find him in baseball.This post will no doubt be quite bumpable if I'm wrong, and as a young man, I wish him well and hope get goes to the HOF. If the Yanks could have drafted him, I would have been happy to, but with the aforementioned reservations. If I'm wrong, and I hope I am for his sake, I'll be happy to admit it.
The GED wasn't a stunt. I don't entirely agree with it, but he was too good for high school. Hell, he was too good for one of the best JUCO conferences going. In any other country he would have been eligible to sign with a club at 16, in the US he had to go through some hoops, including the GED and the JUCO year. Kid seems to have a sizeable ego, but thats not necessarily a negative. He plays hard, works hard and is fairly smart. If he is a jerk-off, who cares? He's being drafted to smash baseballs and his makeup seems to indicate he's just going to get better at that.You can find the video of his last ejection. It was an extremely quick hook.
 
This dope will Marinovich himself out of baseball within 3 years. That dopey face paint is all I need to know about his makeup, no pun intended.
I read he ditched the war paint over a year ago. That was something he was doing in highschool.
Fair enough, but thats whats splashed in all the vids and on the cover of ESPN.com. Willing to stand corrected on the paint. I still think he'll flake though. Bred sports machines usually do, although the Williams sisters have held it together.
You know everything you need to know about the makeup of a 17 year old kid from how he wore his eye-black? Really?
Yes, in a way.Because it shows to me he's a kid at 16 who doesn't have much guidance from his coaches or parents to be that high profile and to allow himself to look like such a clown when he's inserted himself into a spot light. The parenting came into question for me when they let him do this GED stunt. I deal with stage parents in my industry, and rarely if even to I find they have the best interests of their kid at heart. Rather, they're prone to get swept up in the whirlwind of whatever goes on in their child's life. Instead of parenting, they are managing. As far as his coachability, the kid has already shown himself to be a hothead, having multiple ejections. I'm really curious to see how this kid handles adversity, which is bound to find him in baseball.This post will no doubt be quite bumpable if I'm wrong, and as a young man, I wish him well and hope get goes to the HOF. If the Yanks could have drafted him, I would have been happy to, but with the aforementioned reservations. If I'm wrong, and I hope I am for his sake, I'll be happy to admit it.
Remember people, this insight into his character and parenting is based on facepaint.
 
I know very little about Bryce Harper. If I were playing against him( or the parent of someone playing against him)....the eye war paint would make me think he was a doosh.

 
I read he ditched the war paint over a year ago. That was something he was doing in highschool.
Fair enough, but thats whats splashed in all the vids and on the cover of ESPN.com. Willing to stand corrected on the paint. I still think he'll flake though. Bred sports machines usually do, although the Williams sisters have held it together.
You know everything you need to know about the makeup of a 17 year old kid from how he wore his eye-black? Really?
Yes, in a way.Because it shows to me he's a kid at 16 who doesn't have much guidance from his coaches or parents to be that high profile and to allow himself to look like such a clown when he's inserted himself into a spot light. The parenting came into question for me when they let him do this GED stunt. I deal with stage parents in my industry, and rarely if even to I find they have the best interests of their kid at heart. Rather, they're prone to get swept up in the whirlwind of whatever goes on in their child's life. Instead of parenting, they are managing.

As far as his coachability, the kid has already shown himself to be a hothead, having multiple ejections. I'm really curious to see how this kid handles adversity, which is bound to find him in baseball.

This post will no doubt be quite bumpable if I'm wrong, and as a young man, I wish him well and hope get goes to the HOF. If the Yanks could have drafted him, I would have been happy to, but with the aforementioned reservations.

If I'm wrong, and I hope I am for his sake, I'll be happy to admit it.
Remember people, this insight into his character and parenting is based on facepaint.
 
I just created a google alert to sent any news to my inbox related to Bryce Harper. We have 3 minor league spots in my league, and I'm determined to pick him up as soon as he signs. Last year, grabbing Strasburg right away enabled me to package him in a deal for Halladay which lead me to the championship.

If Harper doesn't sign by Aug 16, he can go back to school and be eligible for the draft again next year.

 
I just created a google alert to sent any news to my inbox related to Bryce Harper. We have 3 minor league spots in my league, and I'm determined to pick him up as soon as he signs. Last year, grabbing Strasburg right away enabled me to package him in a deal for Halladay which lead me to the championship.

If Harper doesn't sign by Aug 16, he can go back to school and be eligible for the draft again next year.
There is a less than zero chance that he doesn't sign, regardless what he says on Facebook. There is simply zero upside for him to do it. Just posturing.
 
There is a less than zero chance that he doesn't sign, regardless what he says on Facebook. There is simply zero upside for him to do it. Just posturing.
:goodposting: zero upside? So no players drafted in the first round refuse to sign with the teams that draft them?There are plenty of teams out there that will pay him if he gets redrafted next year. Dude's only 17 years old. And, unlike pitchers who risk a career derailing injury almost every time out, hitters rarely suffer the same type ailments. May be plenty of hesitancy on both sides to get this deal done this year.
 
There is a less than zero chance that he doesn't sign, regardless what he says on Facebook. There is simply zero upside for him to do it. Just posturing.
:confused: zero upside? So no players drafted in the first round refuse to sign with the teams that draft them?There are plenty of teams out there that will pay him if he gets redrafted next year. Dude's only 17 years old. And, unlike pitchers who risk a career derailing injury almost every time out, hitters rarely suffer the same type ailments. May be plenty of hesitancy on both sides to get this deal done this year.
Right now, the race for the top pick would be between the O's and Pirates. Unless collective bargaining changes and you can trade draft picks(which is rumored, but not for the year I don't believe) you are looking at worse situations in my opinion. I guess the O's COULD be an attractive situation, but with Angelos running things, its shaky. DC, despite not having much of a fan base, is really looking up. Ramos, Strasberg, Zimmerman, plus actually STARTING your career, as opposed to waiting another year, risking injury(albeit slight), risking decline(unlikely but possible) to face another Mexican standoff a year from now over salary?
 
There is a less than zero chance that he doesn't sign, regardless what he says on Facebook. There is simply zero upside for him to do it. Just posturing.
:confused: zero upside? So no players drafted in the first round refuse to sign with the teams that draft them?There are plenty of teams out there that will pay him if he gets redrafted next year. Dude's only 17 years old. And, unlike pitchers who risk a career derailing injury almost every time out, hitters rarely suffer the same type ailments. May be plenty of hesitancy on both sides to get this deal done this year.
You challenged the assertion of zero upside but then didn't offer any explanation of upside.If he doesn't sign this year he's stuck dealing with the Orioles next year. The Nats are certainly nobody's idea of a model franchise, but there's plenty of reason to think they'll be a quality team by the time Harper reaches the bigs. The Orioles, on the other hand, are stuck behind the Yankees, Red Sox and Rays for probably the next decade or more, and they've got less money to spend.Harper also has a bit of a reputation for being a difficult personality already. If he doesn't sign, he exacerbates that. He also delays his arrival in the big leagues- maybe not be a full year since he'd be playing juco ball, but at least by a little bit. Which delays his arbitration eligibility and his free agency eligibility.He didn't get a GED and enroll in Juco at age 16 just so he could spend two years there before signing with the team with the bleakest future in baseball.
 
I'm guessing he's going to require a major league contract, which I believe would require him being in the bigs in 3 years too, right? Any contract wizards around here?

 
There is a less than zero chance that he doesn't sign, regardless what he says on Facebook. There is simply zero upside for him to do it. Just posturing.
:bag: zero upside? So no players drafted in the first round refuse to sign with the teams that draft them?There are plenty of teams out there that will pay him if he gets redrafted next year. Dude's only 17 years old. And, unlike pitchers who risk a career derailing injury almost every time out, hitters rarely suffer the same type ailments. May be plenty of hesitancy on both sides to get this deal done this year.
You challenged the assertion of zero upside but then didn't offer any explanation of upside.If he doesn't sign this year he's stuck dealing with the Orioles next year. The Nats are certainly nobody's idea of a model franchise, but there's plenty of reason to think they'll be a quality team by the time Harper reaches the bigs. The Orioles, on the other hand, are stuck behind the Yankees, Red Sox and Rays for probably the next decade or more, and they've got less money to spend.Harper also has a bit of a reputation for being a difficult personality already. If he doesn't sign, he exacerbates that. He also delays his arrival in the big leagues- maybe not be a full year since he'd be playing juco ball, but at least by a little bit. Which delays his arbitration eligibility and his free agency eligibility.He didn't get a GED and enroll in Juco at age 16 just so he could spend two years there before signing with the team with the bleakest future in baseball.
The upside is obvious, sorry I didn't point it out, but more money.If the Nats are offering him a $16 million dollar deal, but Boras thinks he can get $25 million next year, why not wait?Again, we are talking about a 17 year old, not a 22 year old. A 17 year old can afford to wait, especially since he wasn't going to be getting a september call up.As far as next year's situation, if you have the #1 pick in the draft, and you're the Pirates, are you going to take someone you KNOW you can't afford to sign? And if you do so, wouldn't you do so with the intent of trading him to someone who CAN afford to sign him?The Orioles are a fairly attractive situation, imho. They have a decent nucleus of good young players, Weiters, Matusz, Markakis, Tillman, some other pitchers and positional players...and they have a pretty good hitters park when compared to the Nats. Both teams should be fast tracking him to the majors, so I don't think toiling in the minors in either organization would be an issue.Does it put a delay on his hitting the majors? Sure. But again, when you're 17 years old you can probably well afford to wait.I'm not saying that he will not sign with the Nats. I'm just saying that there is a chance he will not sign - as is often the case with first rounders in MLB.
 
There is a less than zero chance that he doesn't sign, regardless what he says on Facebook. There is simply zero upside for him to do it. Just posturing.
:confused: zero upside? So no players drafted in the first round refuse to sign with the teams that draft them?There are plenty of teams out there that will pay him if he gets redrafted next year. Dude's only 17 years old. And, unlike pitchers who risk a career derailing injury almost every time out, hitters rarely suffer the same type ailments. May be plenty of hesitancy on both sides to get this deal done this year.
You challenged the assertion of zero upside but then didn't offer any explanation of upside.If he doesn't sign this year he's stuck dealing with the Orioles next year. The Nats are certainly nobody's idea of a model franchise, but there's plenty of reason to think they'll be a quality team by the time Harper reaches the bigs. The Orioles, on the other hand, are stuck behind the Yankees, Red Sox and Rays for probably the next decade or more, and they've got less money to spend.Harper also has a bit of a reputation for being a difficult personality already. If he doesn't sign, he exacerbates that. He also delays his arrival in the big leagues- maybe not be a full year since he'd be playing juco ball, but at least by a little bit. Which delays his arbitration eligibility and his free agency eligibility.He didn't get a GED and enroll in Juco at age 16 just so he could spend two years there before signing with the team with the bleakest future in baseball.
The upside is obvious, sorry I didn't point it out, but more money.If the Nats are offering him a $16 million dollar deal, but Boras thinks he can get $25 million next year, why not wait?Again, we are talking about a 17 year old, not a 22 year old. A 17 year old can afford to wait, especially since he wasn't going to be getting a september call up.As far as next year's situation, if you have the #1 pick in the draft, and you're the Pirates, are you going to take someone you KNOW you can't afford to sign? And if you do so, wouldn't you do so with the intent of trading him to someone who CAN afford to sign him?The Orioles are a fairly attractive situation, imho. They have a decent nucleus of good young players, Weiters, Matusz, Markakis, Tillman, some other pitchers and positional players...and they have a pretty good hitters park when compared to the Nats. Both teams should be fast tracking him to the majors, so I don't think toiling in the minors in either organization would be an issue.Does it put a delay on his hitting the majors? Sure. But again, when you're 17 years old you can probably well afford to wait.I'm not saying that he will not sign with the Nats. I'm just saying that there is a chance he will not sign - as is often the case with first rounders in MLB.
Players poison their reputations when they hold out. And I don't think two teams could afford to pass on him next year. So he'll be put into organizations with tight purse strings that will use the leverage of time to cap his bonus.
 
The upside is obvious, sorry I didn't point it out, but more money.If the Nats are offering him a $16 million dollar deal, but Boras thinks he can get $25 million next year, why not wait?Again, we are talking about a 17 year old, not a 22 year old. A 17 year old can afford to wait, especially since he wasn't going to be getting a september call up.
The reason not to wait would be getting to your second contract a year earlier. I don't think making an extra $1-2 million over the next four years is worth it when it delays by a year a second contract which could pay him $15 million/year.
 
There is a less than zero chance that he doesn't sign, regardless what he says on Facebook. There is simply zero upside for him to do it. Just posturing.
:towelwave: zero upside? So no players drafted in the first round refuse to sign with the teams that draft them?There are plenty of teams out there that will pay him if he gets redrafted next year. Dude's only 17 years old. And, unlike pitchers who risk a career derailing injury almost every time out, hitters rarely suffer the same type ailments. May be plenty of hesitancy on both sides to get this deal done this year.
You challenged the assertion of zero upside but then didn't offer any explanation of upside.If he doesn't sign this year he's stuck dealing with the Orioles next year. The Nats are certainly nobody's idea of a model franchise, but there's plenty of reason to think they'll be a quality team by the time Harper reaches the bigs. The Orioles, on the other hand, are stuck behind the Yankees, Red Sox and Rays for probably the next decade or more, and they've got less money to spend.Harper also has a bit of a reputation for being a difficult personality already. If he doesn't sign, he exacerbates that. He also delays his arrival in the big leagues- maybe not be a full year since he'd be playing juco ball, but at least by a little bit. Which delays his arbitration eligibility and his free agency eligibility.He didn't get a GED and enroll in Juco at age 16 just so he could spend two years there before signing with the team with the bleakest future in baseball.
The upside is obvious, sorry I didn't point it out, but more money.If the Nats are offering him a $16 million dollar deal, but Boras thinks he can get $25 million next year, why not wait?Again, we are talking about a 17 year old, not a 22 year old. A 17 year old can afford to wait, especially since he wasn't going to be getting a september call up.As far as next year's situation, if you have the #1 pick in the draft, and you're the Pirates, are you going to take someone you KNOW you can't afford to sign? And if you do so, wouldn't you do so with the intent of trading him to someone who CAN afford to sign him?The Orioles are a fairly attractive situation, imho. They have a decent nucleus of good young players, Weiters, Matusz, Markakis, Tillman, some other pitchers and positional players...and they have a pretty good hitters park when compared to the Nats. Both teams should be fast tracking him to the majors, so I don't think toiling in the minors in either organization would be an issue.Does it put a delay on his hitting the majors? Sure. But again, when you're 17 years old you can probably well afford to wait.I'm not saying that he will not sign with the Nats. I'm just saying that there is a chance he will not sign - as is often the case with first rounders in MLB.
I can't imagine a club offering him ten million more than another club, especially when you consider that the Nats are far better off than the Orioles financially speaking. Second, I'm not sure how you can say that he can "afford to wait" and then say that the waiting would be all about getting more money.Third, the Orioles might be an attractive situation as far as putting up good numbers in anticipation of free agency, but if you're talking about pennant races, they may be in the worst position in baseball. They're stuck behind the Yankees, Red Sox and Rays, all of whom they not only have to compete against for playoff spots every year but whom they also play a ton of times every year. If the Orioles get within five games of a playoff spot before Harper reaches free agency (wherever he is), I'll eat my hat. It ain't happening.One more side note- Boras actually gets along well with the Nats' front office. They praised him at the Strasburg unveiling last year, did a deal for Pudge for more than Pudge was worth last winter, and have spoken positively about each other a bunch.Sure, he might not sign. Anything's possible when you're talking about a teenager plus Scott Boras. But I'd be absolutely shocked if he doesn't. And IMO he'd be a complete idiot if the Nats offer him anything reasonable and he doesn't take it.
 
guru_007 said:
TobiasFunke said:
guru_007 said:
fasteddie_21 said:
There is a less than zero chance that he doesn't sign, regardless what he says on Facebook. There is simply zero upside for him to do it. Just posturing.
:confused: zero upside? So no players drafted in the first round refuse to sign with the teams that draft them?There are plenty of teams out there that will pay him if he gets redrafted next year. Dude's only 17 years old. And, unlike pitchers who risk a career derailing injury almost every time out, hitters rarely suffer the same type ailments. May be plenty of hesitancy on both sides to get this deal done this year.
You challenged the assertion of zero upside but then didn't offer any explanation of upside.If he doesn't sign this year he's stuck dealing with the Orioles next year. The Nats are certainly nobody's idea of a model franchise, but there's plenty of reason to think they'll be a quality team by the time Harper reaches the bigs. The Orioles, on the other hand, are stuck behind the Yankees, Red Sox and Rays for probably the next decade or more, and they've got less money to spend.Harper also has a bit of a reputation for being a difficult personality already. If he doesn't sign, he exacerbates that. He also delays his arrival in the big leagues- maybe not be a full year since he'd be playing juco ball, but at least by a little bit. Which delays his arbitration eligibility and his free agency eligibility.He didn't get a GED and enroll in Juco at age 16 just so he could spend two years there before signing with the team with the bleakest future in baseball.
The upside is obvious, sorry I didn't point it out, but more money.If the Nats are offering him a $16 million dollar deal, but Boras thinks he can get $25 million next year, why not wait?Again, we are talking about a 17 year old, not a 22 year old. A 17 year old can afford to wait, especially since he wasn't going to be getting a september call up.As far as next year's situation, if you have the #1 pick in the draft, and you're the Pirates, are you going to take someone you KNOW you can't afford to sign? And if you do so, wouldn't you do so with the intent of trading him to someone who CAN afford to sign him?The Orioles are a fairly attractive situation, imho. They have a decent nucleus of good young players, Weiters, Matusz, Markakis, Tillman, some other pitchers and positional players...and they have a pretty good hitters park when compared to the Nats. Both teams should be fast tracking him to the majors, so I don't think toiling in the minors in either organization would be an issue.Does it put a delay on his hitting the majors? Sure. But again, when you're 17 years old you can probably well afford to wait.I'm not saying that he will not sign with the Nats. I'm just saying that there is a chance he will not sign - as is often the case with first rounders in MLB.
1. you cant trade draft picks. You cant even trade players until 1 year after they've signed2. Next year's draft class is stacked. Until he broke his ankle, Rice 3B Anthony Rendon was considered in the same class as Harper, and much closer to MLB ready. He'll need to prove he's healthy, but he's not the only player that would challange Harper for #1 overall on talent alone.3. Next year's draft class will also have the least amount of leverage of any class in a long time. The 2012 draft class will be drafted under a new collective bargaining agreement that has a very significant chance to impose a hard slotting system, ala the NBA. 4. Strasburg got 15 mil and he was probably the greatest pitching prospect of the past 30 odd years. He was MLB ready when he signed his record deal. Harper is no where near MLB ready.5. A major league deal has to be off the table for this kid. To be required to burn his options when he's 16, 17 and 18 years old is plain insane.
 
guru_007 said:
The upside is obvious, sorry I didn't point it out, but more money.If the Nats are offering him a $16 million dollar deal, but Boras thinks he can get $25 million next year, why not wait?Again, we are talking about a 17 year old, not a 22 year old. A 17 year old can afford to wait, especially since he wasn't going to be getting a september call up.As far as next year's situation, if you have the #1 pick in the draft, and you're the Pirates, are you going to take someone you KNOW you can't afford to sign? And if you do so, wouldn't you do so with the intent of trading him to someone who CAN afford to sign him?The Orioles are a fairly attractive situation, imho. They have a decent nucleus of good young players, Weiters, Matusz, Markakis, Tillman, some other pitchers and positional players...and they have a pretty good hitters park when compared to the Nats. Both teams should be fast tracking him to the majors, so I don't think toiling in the minors in either organization would be an issue.Does it put a delay on his hitting the majors? Sure. But again, when you're 17 years old you can probably well afford to wait.I'm not saying that he will not sign with the Nats. I'm just saying that there is a chance he will not sign - as is often the case with first rounders in MLB.
1. you cant trade draft picks. You cant even trade players until 1 year after they've signed2. Next year's draft class is stacked. Until he broke his ankle, Rice 3B Anthony Rendon was considered in the same class as Harper, and much closer to MLB ready. He'll need to prove he's healthy, but he's not the only player that would challange Harper for #1 overall on talent alone.3. Next year's draft class will also have the least amount of leverage of any class in a long time. The 2012 draft class will be drafted under a new collective bargaining agreement that has a very significant chance to impose a hard slotting system, ala the NBA. 4. Strasburg got 15 mil and he was probably the greatest pitching prospect of the past 30 odd years. He was MLB ready when he signed his record deal. Harper is no where near MLB ready.5. A major league deal has to be off the table for this kid. To be required to burn his options when he's 16, 17 and 18 years old is plain insane.
good points - I forgot that you can't trade draft picks. I see teams with multiple first round draft picks and I forget they were compensatory picks, thanks for reminding me.That being said:-Tons of players go back into the draft if they are not selected by teams they want to play for. College kids, and by college, I'm talking 19, 20, 21 year olds. Hell, Mark Prior was drafted by the Yankees but never signed, and then again when he was likely a consensus top pick, told Minnesota he didn't want to play for them so they passed. -I'm not buying the stacked draft theory. All drafts are allegedly stacked, and it's not like Harper would drop down out of the top three picks anyway, based on talent alone. Signability, that is another issue altogether.-Harper is nowhere near ML ready? Oh? What makes you state this? There are a lot of guys that go to the majors under 20, and by all talk of Harper, I see no reason that is not the case. -Harper will be 18 this fall, so he is not burning any options at 16,17 and probably 18 years old.Again, I'm not saying Harper will not sign, I'm simply playing devils advocate. Someone claimed there is ZERO chance he will not sign. I think there is greater than zero chance he could not sign and go back into the draft.I couldn't see a team like the Pirates draft this guy #1 next year KNOWING they will not be able to sign him. That is a waste of a very valuable resource. I think the Nats HAVE to do all they can to sign him, and the ball is in HArper's court so to speak, and he and Boras know that.
 
"In 66 games, he hit 31 home runs, 98 RBI, hitting .443/.526/.987 (AVG/OBP/SLG). His 31 home runs broke the school's previous record of 12. He was named the 2010 SWAC Player of the Year. "

Won the Golden Spikes award.

That's pretty close to major league ready.

 
good points - I forgot that you can't trade draft picks. I see teams with multiple first round draft picks and I forget they were compensatory picks, thanks for reminding me.

That being said:

-Tons of players go back into the draft if they are not selected by teams they want to play for. College kids, and by college, I'm talking 19, 20, 21 year olds. Hell, Mark Prior was drafted by the Yankees but never signed, and then again when he was likely a consensus top pick, told Minnesota he didn't want to play for them so they passed.

-I'm not buying the stacked draft theory. All drafts are allegedly stacked, and it's not like Harper would drop down out of the top three picks anyway, based on talent alone. Signability, that is another issue altogether.

-Harper is nowhere near ML ready? Oh? What makes you state this? There are a lot of guys that go to the majors under 20, and by all talk of Harper, I see no reason that is not the case.

-Harper will be 18 this fall, so he is not burning any options at 16,17 and probably 18 years old.

Again, I'm not saying Harper will not sign, I'm simply playing devils advocate. Someone claimed there is ZERO chance he will not sign. I think there is greater than zero chance he could not sign and go back into the draft.

I couldn't see a team like the Pirates draft this guy #1 next year KNOWING they will not be able to sign him. That is a waste of a very valuable resource. I think the Nats HAVE to do all they can to sign him, and the ball is in HArper's court so to speak, and he and Boras know that.
I agree with everything except the bolded. The Nats are holding the cards here. They're a more desirable destination by far compared with possible #1 picks next year. They have the resources to pay him, which isn't a guarantee for him next year. He put his cards on the table by getting his GED and enrolling in juco- an unprecedented move that was obviously intended to get him to the professional ranks as quickly as possible. The kid's not exactly killing it on the PR side, which Boras knows and the Nats know. And the Nats aren't desperate to satisfy their grumpy fanbase like they were last year. Last year they were coming off the failure to sign Aaron Crow and in the midst of another 100 loss season. Their would have been fan revolt if they hadn't signed the kid, and everyone knew it. Now they've ponied up for Strasburg and the failure to sign Crow has been a blessing in disguise, as he's sucking big time and the Nats used the comp. pick on Drew Storen, who has been a revelation. Everyone's pretty happy here. Harper's a luxury, not a necessity, especially if they pony up for Dunn and another FA bat.

 
"In 66 games, he hit 31 home runs, 98 RBI, hitting .443/.526/.987 (AVG/OBP/SLG). His 31 home runs broke the school's previous record of 12. He was named the 2010 SWAC Player of the Year. "Won the Golden Spikes award.That's pretty close to major league ready.
:thumbup: in JuCo?
 
Harper is no where near MLB ready.A major league deal has to be off the table for this kid. To be required to burn his options when he's 16, 17 and 18 years old is plain insane.
These ideas put togethermake sense. But, I haven't heard anything about him being nowhere near MLB ready. If the Nats think he's MLB ready soon, he'll get the major league deal. And, as mentioned, your ages are off. He'll still be 17 when he signs the deal, but he'll be 18 two months later. So, 3 years after signing his contract, he'll almost be 20. If he's not MLB ready by then, then the hype is WAY off on him. I wouldn't be surprised with a September call up in 2011 and a legit shot at making the opening day roster in 2012.
 
guru_007 said:
The upside is obvious, sorry I didn't point it out, but more money.If the Nats are offering him a $16 million dollar deal, but Boras thinks he can get $25 million next year, why not wait?Again, we are talking about a 17 year old, not a 22 year old. A 17 year old can afford to wait, especially since he wasn't going to be getting a september call up.As far as next year's situation, if you have the #1 pick in the draft, and you're the Pirates, are you going to take someone you KNOW you can't afford to sign? And if you do so, wouldn't you do so with the intent of trading him to someone who CAN afford to sign him?The Orioles are a fairly attractive situation, imho. They have a decent nucleus of good young players, Weiters, Matusz, Markakis, Tillman, some other pitchers and positional players...and they have a pretty good hitters park when compared to the Nats. Both teams should be fast tracking him to the majors, so I don't think toiling in the minors in either organization would be an issue.Does it put a delay on his hitting the majors? Sure. But again, when you're 17 years old you can probably well afford to wait.I'm not saying that he will not sign with the Nats. I'm just saying that there is a chance he will not sign - as is often the case with first rounders in MLB.
1. you cant trade draft picks. You cant even trade players until 1 year after they've signed2. Next year's draft class is stacked. Until he broke his ankle, Rice 3B Anthony Rendon was considered in the same class as Harper, and much closer to MLB ready. He'll need to prove he's healthy, but he's not the only player that would challange Harper for #1 overall on talent alone.3. Next year's draft class will also have the least amount of leverage of any class in a long time. The 2012 draft class will be drafted under a new collective bargaining agreement that has a very significant chance to impose a hard slotting system, ala the NBA. 4. Strasburg got 15 mil and he was probably the greatest pitching prospect of the past 30 odd years. He was MLB ready when he signed his record deal. Harper is no where near MLB ready.5. A major league deal has to be off the table for this kid. To be required to burn his options when he's 16, 17 and 18 years old is plain insane.
good points - I forgot that you can't trade draft picks. I see teams with multiple first round draft picks and I forget they were compensatory picks, thanks for reminding me.That being said:-Tons of players go back into the draft if they are not selected by teams they want to play for. College kids, and by college, I'm talking 19, 20, 21 year olds. Hell, Mark Prior was drafted by the Yankees but never signed, and then again when he was likely a consensus top pick, told Minnesota he didn't want to play for them so they passed. -I'm not buying the stacked draft theory. All drafts are allegedly stacked, and it's not like Harper would drop down out of the top three picks anyway, based on talent alone. Signability, that is another issue altogether.-Harper is nowhere near ML ready? Oh? What makes you state this? There are a lot of guys that go to the majors under 20, and by all talk of Harper, I see no reason that is not the case. -Harper will be 18 this fall, so he is not burning any options at 16,17 and probably 18 years old.Again, I'm not saying Harper will not sign, I'm simply playing devils advocate. Someone claimed there is ZERO chance he will not sign. I think there is greater than zero chance he could not sign and go back into the draft.I couldn't see a team like the Pirates draft this guy #1 next year KNOWING they will not be able to sign him. That is a waste of a very valuable resource. I think the Nats HAVE to do all they can to sign him, and the ball is in HArper's court so to speak, and he and Boras know that.
Prior was never offered by the Yanks money anywhere near what Harper is going to be offered by the Nats. And Harper has already made it clear his preference is to start playing professionally immediately, not go to college. Many kids have a different preference. You may not want to buy it, but find me anyone that claims this past draft was stacked. People were also fairly down on the 2009 draft, it was just that Strasburg sucked all the air out of the room. Who, right now, is in the majors that isn't atleast 20? If you're very generous, you can claim major college baseball is equivalent to AA ball, smaller DI high A and Juco low A. The kid crushed a JUCO league. There isn't a single player in low A that could step into the majors and handle it. Plus, Harper probably starts out in rookie ball after signing, so he wont see a full season league until next spring and he needs to learn a new defensive position.Looked on baseball-reference, and the players age for a season is determined on June 30th of that year. So if he's 17 now, it would be his year 17 season. And Harper is required to be signed by August 15th. If he signs a MLB contract, he needs to immediately either be placed on the 25 man roster or optioned to the minors. I guess the Nats could burn a roster spot for a few weeks until September call-ups make it less of a problem, but then you're starting his arbitration and FA clocks unnecessarily. So you're burning his options for his age 17, 18 and 19 seasons. Thats pretty dumb. Even with the youth movement in baseball, you don't see many 20 year old rookies. Such a deal would force the Nats hand in his development and could result in his being rushed to the majors and having his development stunted.Plus, the Nats have already endorsed Boras' plan for Harper to move from C to OF. This deal is pretty much a slam dunk. I guess its a non-zero chance he doesn't sign. Its just a very small chance.
 
Harper is no where near MLB ready.A major league deal has to be off the table for this kid. To be required to burn his options when he's 16, 17 and 18 years old is plain insane.
These ideas put togethermake sense. But, I haven't heard anything about him being nowhere near MLB ready. If the Nats think he's MLB ready soon, he'll get the major league deal. And, as mentioned, your ages are off. He'll still be 17 when he signs the deal, but he'll be 18 two months later. So, 3 years after signing his contract, he'll almost be 20. If he's not MLB ready by then, then the hype is WAY off on him. I wouldn't be surprised with a September call up in 2011 and a legit shot at making the opening day roster in 2012.
He'll go to rookie ball after signing. He'll start next year in low A. The kid has never seen anything approaching MLB pitching and it takes a while for players to adjust at each level. Your timetable is much more accurate for a kid from LSU or Miami that's already a polished hitter and fielder. Right now, he's got amazing power, but he needs to develop his pitch recognition and contact abilities as well as spend some time learning to play OF.
 
"In 66 games, he hit 31 home runs, 98 RBI, hitting .443/.526/.987 (AVG/OBP/SLG). His 31 home runs broke the school's previous record of 12. He was named the 2010 SWAC Player of the Year. "Won the Golden Spikes award.That's pretty close to major league ready.
:( in JuCo?
yeah, in JuCo, with wooden bats. And he won the Golden Spikes award which encompasses all of amateur baseball.Not sure what more you wanted to see, .600 average? 40 homers in 66 games? His 31 homers beat the schools previous record of 12 homersI guess Albert Pujols wasn't major league ready when he went .329/.389/.565 with 17 homers in 104 games in low a ball @ 20 years old.
 

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