Spiller vs. Best (1 Viewer)

[Avery]

And even if Spiller ends up the starter he'll still be part of an RBBC which will be stiffer competition then anything Best is up against this year.

Both other backs are out game 1, possibly game 2, and all of camp. Explain this please.

Since the season is 17 games, not 1 or 2 games, and Lynch and Jackson are superior talents to Kevin Smith, Lynch and Jackson will be around to share carries for 15 or 16 games (barring trades or further injuries) I'd say unless Spiller explodes the first week or two, the analysis is spot on.

You are really missing the bigger picture here.

Did you miss the part where Hustler said "this year"?

 

[Garts]

Dynasty it should be Spiller. They are identical backs and one has an injury history.

Redraft Spiller is looking like a better bet simply because he has a lot more haters out there than Best, especially in the "influencer" community, and thus his ADP will be in the later rounds, whereas Best will be going in the 4th.

Excellent point. For Redraft, Spiller can be had around 6th round in PPR (unless he's creeping up with the FredJax injury news) and is the better value. Best costs more.

It almost comes down to letting someone else make the decision and you get the leftover guy.

 

[TheFanatic]

I've got to make this very decision in about 29 hours. Really torn at this point...

BestAnd by Best I mean Spiller, because surely I just jinxed Best.

Well, which is it?

 

[ItsOnlytheRiver]

I've got to make this very decision in about 29 hours. Really torn at this point...

BestAnd by Best I mean Spiller, because surely I just jinxed Best.

Well, which is it?

I invested a 3rd round start up pick on Best, so I guess that's where my money is.

 

[TheFanatic]

I've got to make this very decision in about 29 hours. Really torn at this point...

BestAnd by Best I mean Spiller, because surely I just jinxed Best.

Well, which is it?

I invested a 3rd round start up pick on Best, so I guess that's where my money is.

This is in a Dynasty league. I am so torn on this it's ridiculous. I even own Fred Jackson. I very well may flip a coin!?!

 

[degenerate]

best. fjax>smith

 

[mozzy84]

is spiller really returning kicks?

That's what I came to post. He did not get a return against the Colts. Got one PR ( fair catch I think) against the Redskins.

this is all I could find, doesnt sound like hes a kick off returner anyways, or maybe he's doing neither Jackson, Spiller Lead Bills' Kick, Punt Return Units

When the Buffalo Bills pushed out their first unofficial depth chart of the season for last week's pre-season opener against Washington, the team did not provide a listing for the kick and punt returner positions. That has changed this week.

Chad Jackson is listed as the first-team kick returner. He returned one kick for 26 yards last week against Washington, and returned 14 kicks for New England and Denver between 2006 and 2008 (at a meager 19.1 yards per return). Donald Jones, C.J. Spiller and Joique Bell follow with the second, third and fourth teams, respectively.

Spiller, meanwhile, is listed as the first-team punt returner. While he was not especially prolific as a punt returner during his college career, Spiller is certainly capable in that area; he fielded the first punt against Washington, returning it for no gain. Spiller is backed up by Ellis Lankster, Naaman Roosevelt and Jones. Lankster muffed a punt in D.C., while Roosevelt had a nice 23-yard return in the fourth quarter.

The fact that Buffalo's two most established return men - Leodis McKelvin and Roscoe Parrish - don't show up on the depth chart indicates how experimental the position is at the moment. This is not what the depth chart will look like once the season starts; rather, it reflects merely which players the coaches want to see return some kicks in an effort to be as thorough as possible in their player evaluations.

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2010/8/18/...lead-bills-kick

 

[JPeso]

Dynasty it should be Spiller. They are identical backs and one has an injury history.

Redraft Spiller is looking like a better bet simply because he has a lot more haters out there than Best, especially in the "influencer" community, and thus his ADP will be in the later rounds, whereas Best will be going in the 4th.

Excellent point. For Redraft, Spiller can be had around 6th round in PPR (unless he's creeping up with the FredJax injury news) and is the better value. Best costs more.

Except for the fact they are not identical backs.

 

[Clifford]

I've got to make this very decision in about 29 hours. Really torn at this point...

OK, I want to see if I can convince youSpiller was not the consensus #1 RB in the draft for no reason. Not one team or scout that I know of even had Mathews ahead of himSpiller was only downgraded in comparison to the other rookie backs because of situation. His situation is now the best out of all rookie backs.Jackson is not nearly as good as his year-end numbers indicate: he got over 1/5 of his yards (and significantly increased his ypc) against a 3rd string Colts D. He didn't score a TD until something like week 6 and didn't have a run over 20 yards for an even longer stretch.Even if they do make Jackson the starter once he's healthy, he won't keep the job. We're talking about an average at best back here who was maddeningly inconsistent last year vs the top RB talent in this rookie class. Spiller has all of the rest of camp, preseason, and likely the first two games of 2010 to convince his coach, a decidedly anti-RBBC coach, that he's the man. He showed last night he can do that, and had his best run against the first string.So, you have the top rookie RB in this year's draft playing for a coach that like to have one feature back, who has zero competition for the starting gig until week 3 at the earliest, and playing behind a line that ranked 8th in the league last year in ypc. And you can probably get him in the fifth round.Want to take him yet?

 

[Clifford]

Dynasty it should be Spiller. They are identical backs and one has an injury history.

Redraft Spiller is looking like a better bet simply because he has a lot more haters out there than Best, especially in the "influencer" community, and thus his ADP will be in the later rounds, whereas Best will be going in the 4th.

Excellent point. For Redraft, Spiller can be had around 6th round in PPR (unless he's creeping up with the FredJax injury news) and is the better value. Best costs more.

Except for the fact they are not identical backs.

What do you see as consequential differences Peso? (given that we know different names, families etc)

 

[Clifford]

And even if Spiller ends up the starter he'll still be part of an RBBC which will be stiffer competition then anything Best is up against this year.

Both other backs are out game 1, possibly game 2, and all of camp. Explain this please.

Since the season is 17 games, not 1 or 2 games, and Lynch and Jackson are superior talents to Kevin Smith, Lynch and Jackson will be around to share carries for 15 or 16 games (barring trades or further injuries) I'd say unless Spiller explodes the first week or two, the analysis is spot on.

You are really missing the bigger picture here.

Did you miss the part where Hustler said "this year"?

NO, I missed the part where there's anything to indicate a RBBC in Buffalo.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

[quote name='Clifford' post='12181297' Did you miss the part where Hustler said "this year"?

NO, I missed the part where there's anything to indicate a RBBC in Buffalo.

I missed the part where there was any indication that it wouldn't be...

I don't have time right now but everything I read up to about a week ago pointed in the direction of RBBC '10'

And I'm not sure about this but I believe my conversation in this thread proceeded the Lynch and Jackson injury debacle... But even after injury, I bet Jackson/Lynch see time..

 

[Avery]

You are really missing the bigger picture here.

Did you miss the part where Hustler said "this year"?

NO, I missed the part where there's anything to indicate a RBBC in Buffalo.

Here's what you might have missed.Three of the fours top players for the Bills offense are RBs and the Bills defense is not strong. I think that, along with a poor passing game, is a strong indicator that the Bills will throw many "safe" passes and run the ball a ton. Since Spiller isn't a traditional "workhorse" back, I think this is a strong indicator that all three will be involved.Given all that, if Spiller blows up in the first and/or second week, all bets are off.

 

[Clifford]

Injuries changed everything, and coach doesn't like RBBC.

So, you're Gailey, a veteran coach. You are new this year so only the guys who just got drafted are "your guys." It's week 1 and your rookie back has a good game. Week 2 he has an even better game, and has looked good all offseason. Aside from that, he's a top-ten pick and your number one draft choice.

So after this you decide to pull your rookie from starting where he's been succeeding, and insert a guy with only 1 1,000 yard season ever and who has only started one season? I'd just like to know how that makes any sense in anyone's head.

The situation changed. Reevaluate.

FWIW I'm not saying they won't be involved and see time. I'm saying Spiller remains the starter all season and sees around 235 carries. Which is what I've been saying since before the injuries.

 

[Clifford]

You are really missing the bigger picture here.

Did you miss the part where Hustler said "this year"?

NO, I missed the part where there's anything to indicate a RBBC in Buffalo.

Here's what you might have missed.Three of the fours top players for the Bills offense are RBs and the Bills defense is not strong. I think that, along with a poor passing game, is a strong indicator that the Bills will throw many "safe" passes and run the ball a ton. Since Spiller isn't a traditional "workhorse" back, I think this is a strong indicator that all three will be involved.Given all that, if Spiller blows up in the first and/or second week, all bets are off.

So your theory is that because the defense sucks the Bills will run more? Where else have you seen this scenario play out in recent years?

 

[Avery]

You are really missing the bigger picture here.

Did you miss the part where Hustler said "this year"?

NO, I missed the part where there's anything to indicate a RBBC in Buffalo.

Here's what you might have missed.Three of the fours top players for the Bills offense are RBs and the Bills defense is not strong. I think that, along with a poor passing game, is a strong indicator that the Bills will throw many "safe" passes and run the ball a ton. Since Spiller isn't a traditional "workhorse" back, I think this is a strong indicator that all three will be involved.Given all that, if Spiller blows up in the first and/or second week, all bets are off.

So your theory is that because the defense sucks the Bills will run more? Where else have you seen this scenario play out in recent years?

How about the theory that most of the four best players on the offensive team are RBs or are you just ignoring that part?

 

[eakfootball]

In a redraft I would definitely go Best, in a dynasty I would still go Best he has nearly as much talent as spiller and is in a better situation. Spiller will be Felix Jones, Best will be in between Westbrook and jamaal charles

 

[ItsOnlytheRiver]

I've got to make this very decision in about 29 hours. Really torn at this point...

BestAnd by Best I mean Spiller, because surely I just jinxed Best.

Well, which is it?

I invested a 3rd round start up pick on Best, so I guess that's where my money is.

This is in a Dynasty league. I am so torn on this it's ridiculous. I even own Fred Jackson. I very well may flip a coin!?!

To me Fred Jackson is pretty worthless, I wouldn't let that come into play. Either one you draft is going to get their shot to shine. I just see Best as having more upside in the better offense, and all the reports out of Detroit are positive thus far. The only risk I see with Best is his injury history.

 

[Clifford]

How about the theory that most of the four best players on the offensive team are RBs or are you just ignoring that part?

Just don't buy it that's all. And can't really read your sentence. "most of the four best players on the offensive team are RBs" No, can't decipher that. For a second I thought you were saying that 3 of the 4 best players on offense are RBs. Is that what you're saying?

 

[Avery]

How about the theory that most of the four best players on the offensive team are RBs or are you just ignoring that part?

Just don't buy it that's all. And can't really read your sentence. "most of the four best players on the offensive team are RBs" No, can't decipher that. For a second I thought you were saying that 3 of the 4 best players on offense are RBs. Is that what you're saying?

Yup. That's what I am saying. If it was unclear, you could read my entire previous post.Spiller, Evans, Jackson and Lynch in no particular order.A head couch would be foolish not to involve all four as best he could.

 

[Glaven]

I've got to make this very decision in about 29 hours. Really torn at this point...

OK, I want to see if I can convince youSpiller was not the consensus #1 RB in the draft for no reason. Not one team or scout that I know of even had Mathews ahead of himSpiller was only downgraded in comparison to the other rookie backs because of situation. His situation is now the best out of all rookie backs.Jackson is not nearly as good as his year-end numbers indicate: he got over 1/5 of his yards (and significantly increased his ypc) against a 3rd string Colts D. He didn't score a TD until something like week 6 and didn't have a run over 20 yards for an even longer stretch.Even if they do make Jackson the starter once he's healthy, he won't keep the job. We're talking about an average at best back here who was maddeningly inconsistent last year vs the top RB talent in this rookie class. Spiller has all of the rest of camp, preseason, and likely the first two games of 2010 to convince his coach, a decidedly anti-RBBC coach, that he's the man. He showed last night he can do that, and had his best run against the first string.So, you have the top rookie RB in this year's draft playing for a coach that like to have one feature back, who has zero competition for the starting gig until week 3 at the earliest, and playing behind a line that ranked 8th in the league last year in ypc. And you can probably get him in the fifth round.Want to take him yet?

No.

 

[Ray_T]

Dynasty or redraft/limited keeper?

In dynasty I prefer Spiller. In a redraft league or a league with minimal keepers I'd prefer Best.

I would agree with this.Buffalo can only remain crappy for so long and once the surrounding team is better, then spiller will likely be the better back to have.

As a Lee Evans owner in almost every dynasty league I'm in... I wholeheartedly disagree with this.

LOL!Had to laugh at that one!

 

[Ray_T]

Injuries changed everything, and coach doesn't like RBBC. So, you're Gailey, a veteran coach. You are new this year so only the guys who just got drafted are "your guys." It's week 1 and your rookie back has a good game. Week 2 he has an even better game, and has looked good all offseason. Aside from that, he's a top-ten pick and your number one draft choice.So after this you decide to pull your rookie from starting where he's been succeeding, and insert a guy with only 1 1,000 yard season ever and who has only started one season? I'd just like to know how that makes any sense in anyone's head.The situation changed. Reevaluate.FWIW I'm not saying they won't be involved and see time. I'm saying Spiller remains the starter all season and sees around 235 carries. Which is what I've been saying since before the injuries.

That may not be the Coach's call.If the GM is trying to shop a player, he may ask the coach to start him for a couple of games so other teams can scout him out and make an offer.I agree this wouldnt normally apply, but it is a tall order to get market value for players who arent even starting. So if there is some serious interest in Lynch, he will get playing time and lots of it.If there is a time you can get away with easing a rookie into the lineup, this is it. The dropoff wont be excessively huge from Spiller to Lynch, So I am betting that Lynch will play early and the bills will trade him away when they can. Then Spiller will become the starter.Of course, if they trade Lynch before the season begins, that will solve the problem.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Injuries changed everything, and coach doesn't like RBBC. So, you're Gailey, a veteran coach. You are new this year so only the guys who just got drafted are "your guys." It's week 1 and your rookie back has a good game. Week 2 he has an even better game, and has looked good all offseason. Aside from that, he's a top-ten pick and your number one draft choice.So after this you decide to pull your rookie from starting where he's been succeeding, and insert a guy with only 1 1,000 yard season ever and who has only started one season? I'd just like to know how that makes any sense in anyone's head.The situation changed. Reevaluate.FWIW I'm not saying they won't be involved and see time. I'm saying Spiller remains the starter all season and sees around 235 carries. Which is what I've been saying since before the injuries.

That may not be the Coach's call.If the GM is trying to shop a player, he may ask the coach to start him for a couple of games so other teams can scout him out and make an offer.I agree this wouldnt normally apply, but it is a tall order to get market value for players who arent even starting. So if there is some serious interest in Lynch, he will get playing time and lots of it.If there is a time you can get away with easing a rookie into the lineup, this is it. The dropoff wont be excessively huge from Spiller to Lynch, So I am betting that Lynch will play early and the bills will trade him away when they can. Then Spiller will become the starter.Of course, if they trade Lynch before the season begins, that will solve the problem.

How often do NFL players get traded during the season? Rarely.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Marshawn Lynch-RB-Bills Aug. 21 - 4:40 pm et

Marshawn Lynch (ankle) was able to do running drills off to the side during Saturday's practice.

Lynch was moving well straight ahead, but he was much more careful on lateral movements and cuts. He's on track for a return to full healthy by the season opener, where he could be splitting carries with C.J. Spiller if Fred Jackson (hand) remains out.

Source: buffalobills.com

 

[OU#1]

Spiller Hype is up. He went 3.7 in my redraft last night. I guess nobody in my league thinks Best is gonna do it either. Maybe it's Detriot? I happily took Best at 7.11.

 

[Clifford]

Marshawn Lynch-RB-Bills Aug. 21 - 4:40 pm et

Marshawn Lynch (ankle) was able to do running drills off to the side during Saturday's practice.

Lynch was moving well straight ahead, but he was much more careful on lateral movements and cuts. He's on track for a return to full healthy by the season opener, where he could be splitting carries with C.J. Spiller if Fred Jackson (hand) remains out.

Source: buffalobills.com

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Marshawn Lynch-RB-Bills Aug. 21 - 4:40 pm et

Marshawn Lynch (ankle) was able to do running drills off to the side during Saturday's practice.

Lynch was moving well straight ahead, but he was much more careful on lateral movements and cuts. He's on track for a return to full healthy by the season opener, where he could be splitting carries with C.J. Spiller if Fred Jackson (hand) remains out.

Source: buffalobills.com

Show me something, you've made claims that spiller will be the rb1 and no rbbc, I disagree, and you haven't shown anything outside of your opinion to suggest otherwise..

link please

Bottom line is that there are 2 other very good rb's on the team and it would be foolish for the bills not to use them in some capacity, both considering their abilities and their contracts.. you quote last years yard per carry #'s per the offensive line and discredit the RB's that were carrying the ball...

Spiller is new to the NFL and will need time to get acclimated, now if there were no other strong options at RB I could see leaving it all on the rookie, but they have good options, why take the chance? So you could defend your draft choice this year?

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Marshawn Lynch-RB-Bills Aug. 21 - 4:40 pm et

Marshawn Lynch (ankle) was able to do running drills off to the side during Saturday's practice.

Lynch was moving well straight ahead, but he was much more careful on lateral movements and cuts. He's on track for a return to full healthy by the season opener, where he could be splitting carries with C.J. Spiller if Fred Jackson (hand) remains out.

Source: buffalobills.com

Show me something, you've made claims that spiller will be the rb1 and no rbbc, but you haven't shown anything outside of your opinion to suggest otherwise..

link please

Bottom line is that there are 2 other very good rb's on the team and it would be foolish for the bills not to use them in some capacity, both considering their abilities and their contracts.. you quote last years yard per carry #'s per the offensive line and discredit the RB's that were carrying the ball...

Spiller is new to the NFL and will need time to get acclimated, now if there were no other strong options at RB I could see leaving it all on the rookie, but they have good options, why take the chance? So you could defend your draft choice this year?

When AP was "new to the NFL" and the team "had good options" (Chester Taylor), AP still got the rock a ton.I realize that comparing CJ Spiller to AP is silly, but you get my point. If Spiller is able to block (a big IF), the rest of a RBs job ain't exactly rocket science.

Still, I agree with you that the Bills are likely to give the ball to Jackson or Lynch a fair amount, which will limit Spiller's upside. Fully expect Mathews and Best to outproduce him this year.

 

[dickey moe]

Had either one available to me today at 6.01 in a startup 10 team PPR dynasty and I chose Best.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Marshawn Lynch-RB-Bills Aug. 21 - 4:40 pm et

Marshawn Lynch (ankle) was able to do running drills off to the side during Saturday's practice.

Lynch was moving well straight ahead, but he was much more careful on lateral movements and cuts. He's on track for a return to full healthy by the season opener, where he could be splitting carries with C.J. Spiller if Fred Jackson (hand) remains out.

Source: buffalobills.com

Show me something, you've made claims that spiller will be the rb1 and no rbbc, but you haven't shown anything outside of your opinion to suggest otherwise..

link please

Bottom line is that there are 2 other very good rb's on the team and it would be foolish for the bills not to use them in some capacity, both considering their abilities and their contracts.. you quote last years yard per carry #'s per the offensive line and discredit the RB's that were carrying the ball...

Spiller is new to the NFL and will need time to get acclimated, now if there were no other strong options at RB I could see leaving it all on the rookie, but they have good options, why take the chance? So you could defend your draft choice this year?

When AP was "new to the NFL" and the team "had good options" (Chester Taylor), AP still got the rock a ton.I realize that comparing CJ Spiller to AP is silly, but you get my point. If Spiller is able to block (a big IF), the rest of a RBs job ain't exactly rocket science.

Still, I agree with you that the Bills are likely to give the ball to Jackson or Lynch a fair amount, which will limit Spiller's upside. Fully expect Mathews and Best to outproduce him this year.

For every #1 ranked rookie RB that had 230+ in his first season, I could show you at least 3 that didn't... And that's just from memory. I would guess that the #'s supporting my opinion would be even better...

 

[Alex P Keaton]

For every #1 ranked rookie RB that had 230+ in his first season, I could show you at least 3 that didn't... And that's just from memory. I would guess that the #'s supporting my opinion would be even better...

Of course. But let's not pretend that it never happens.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

For every #1 ranked rookie RB that had 230+ in his first season, I could show you at least 3 that didn't... And that's just from memory. I would guess that the #'s supporting my opinion would be even better...

Of course. But let's not pretend that it never happens.

Taylor was injured, missed 2 games completely, still had 157 attempts that season, and he is only 1 back... Could have easily done better if healthy, keeping AP's #'s better limited.

 

[Clifford]

Best might have moved past Spiller on my boards last night. I think both are good bets for production this year.

 

[damageinc]

Got both

Took Best in the 4th Round and Spiller in the 5th. Glad to have 2 home run hitters on my roster. ( other RB are Beanie Wells , Arian Foster and M Bush). For Now Best is a Starter and Spiller on Bench ( Unless Lynch not ready to go week 1).