Chadstroma
Footballguy
Generally, what is the better IDP position to have for fantasy football- SS or FS?
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SS or FS (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Chadstroma
- Start date
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
I'm not a fan of using generalities but this'll be a landslide in favor of the strong safety.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
SS = tackles = points = wins.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Just for reference...
Brian Dawkins (FS)
Ken Hamlin (FS)
Sean Taylor (FS in name)
Will Demps (FS)
Nick Collins (FS)
OJ Atogwe (FS)
Madieu Williams (FS)
...were all top fifteen performers among safeties in many of my leagues in 2006.
I'll vote SS every time in this scenario, but it really isn't that simple.
Brian Dawkins (FS)
Ken Hamlin (FS)
Sean Taylor (FS in name)
Will Demps (FS)
Nick Collins (FS)
OJ Atogwe (FS)
Madieu Williams (FS)
...were all top fifteen performers among safeties in many of my leagues in 2006.
I'll vote SS every time in this scenario, but it really isn't that simple.
Rozelle
Moderator
The gap has narrowed a great deal in recent years, to where it is practilly a push anymore. I still prefer the SS, but its really just an "old habits die hard" thing.
I'll add one to Jean's list ... Bob Sanders would be a top 10 DB if he could ever stay healthy, which doesn't appear likely with his style of play.
I'll add one to Jean's list ... Bob Sanders would be a top 10 DB if he could ever stay healthy, which doesn't appear likely with his style of play.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
Depends on the team Boss... here the perfect ex:
NY Jets
2005 4 - 3 Defense: SS E Coleman and FS Rhodes were equal
2006 3 - 4 Defense w/ different coaching staff: FS Rhodes >>>>>>>>>>>> SS Coleman
NY Jets
2005 4 - 3 Defense: SS E Coleman and FS Rhodes were equal
2006 3 - 4 Defense w/ different coaching staff: FS Rhodes >>>>>>>>>>>> SS Coleman
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Despite what the gamebooks and "official" depth charts say, Kerry Rhodes played the Sean Jones/Rodney Harrison role in Mangini's version of the Belichick hybrid. He was a strong safety in 2006. The previous coaching staff used a dedicated right-left alignment in the secondary. Neither safety could reliably be considered a strong or free safety.Still, the point we've both tried to make is valid. Free safeties can have more value than strong safeties in many situations.
msommer
Footballguy
The issue only gets more muddled when considering Tampa Bay where Barber generally holds more value than either safety.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I agree I over simplified the question. I did that on purpose. I wanted to make sure what I was thinking was fairly right- and the landslide seems to agree with individual player and D scheme exceptions of course.
Rozelle
Moderator
There's an evolution going on at the safety position, teams want them to be interchangable. They need to learn both FS and SS responsibilities. Offensive formation dictate how they line up.
As we all know; In the past, most teams employed strong and free safeties, with the strong safety playing closer to the line and the free safety operating in center field. Now defenses are forced to play with split safeties. The safeties are also called on more to play deep, “bracket” coverage in doubling a tight end or slot receiver. The run-stopping duty is still there, but its level of emphasis has shifted - and the NFL has reacted.
Some coaches at the college level are now putting their best athletes at safety instead of corner. Because colleges are placing elite athletes at safety, the pros are getting better players at that position, a trend validated by the higher draft picks and bigger salaries invested in the position. Just look at Michael Griffin, who the Titans will prolly convert to corner.
Texas DB coach Duane Akina ... “How the game’s developed, where there are more multiple formations, that position really has to be the quarterback of the secondary more than ever,” Akina said. “Defenses are doing more too, with pressure and coverage, so you need to find a flexible athlete that can do more. It’s tough to find a great corner. But to find a safety who’s intelligent, physical and fast enough to cover, that’s the guy you latch on to.”
At both the pro and college levels, these game-breaking safeties are becoming more of a necessity than a luxury.
I saved part of an article a while back to MS word, some of this is taken from that article. Unable to find link. Don't be fooled, there isn't much of a difference anymore.
As we all know; In the past, most teams employed strong and free safeties, with the strong safety playing closer to the line and the free safety operating in center field. Now defenses are forced to play with split safeties. The safeties are also called on more to play deep, “bracket” coverage in doubling a tight end or slot receiver. The run-stopping duty is still there, but its level of emphasis has shifted - and the NFL has reacted.
Some coaches at the college level are now putting their best athletes at safety instead of corner. Because colleges are placing elite athletes at safety, the pros are getting better players at that position, a trend validated by the higher draft picks and bigger salaries invested in the position. Just look at Michael Griffin, who the Titans will prolly convert to corner.
Texas DB coach Duane Akina ... “How the game’s developed, where there are more multiple formations, that position really has to be the quarterback of the secondary more than ever,” Akina said. “Defenses are doing more too, with pressure and coverage, so you need to find a flexible athlete that can do more. It’s tough to find a great corner. But to find a safety who’s intelligent, physical and fast enough to cover, that’s the guy you latch on to.”
At both the pro and college levels, these game-breaking safeties are becoming more of a necessity than a luxury.
I saved part of an article a while back to MS word, some of this is taken from that article. Unable to find link. Don't be fooled, there isn't much of a difference anymore.
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redman
Footballguy
This is the key. You have to answer this question assuming away this interchangeability. Here are the traditional attributes though:Rozelle said:
FS:
back in pass coverage more
usually smaller, lighter & faster (a heavier, better tackling CB)
tend to get more passes defensed
tend to get more INT's and return yardage/TD's
tend to get fewer tackles
tend to get fewer sacks
tend to get fewer forced fumbles & fumble recoveries
SS:
up in run defense more
usually larger, heavier & slower (a lighter/smaller OLB)
tend to get fewer passes defensed
tend to get fewer INT's and return yardage/TD's
tend to get more tackles
tend to get more sacks
tend to get more forced fumbles & fumble recoveries/TD's
Assuming the traditional roles, a SS is a safer and generally better pick for the reasons highlighted; a FS tends to be a less consistent producer but arguably has a higher ceiling to the extent that a FS can get hot in a given season and get a lot of INT's and returns for TD's (e.g. Ed Reed in 2004).
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Rozelle
Moderator
Here's just another article (Pat Kirwan) about how the strong safety is not what it use to be. Just as the the Cover-2 made CB's more inviting into the IDP world, it's doing the opposite at SS, at least until the position evolves . I'm tellin' ya don't sleep on this. This position is changing and it's changing fast. You have to change your way of thinking, in terms of the SS/FS, and ... so and so is too small to play SS. ala Brian Williams (Jax)
Article also talks about the Mike backers.
Strong safety
The strong safety is another position that has undergone a pretty major transformation in recent years, and the Cover Two again plays a part. Dallas strong safety Roy Williams is still a good football player, but what he does best (drop down into the box and support the run defense) is not what the Cowboys need most. Adam Archuleta was recently released by the Bears because he was a "box" safety as well.
John Lynch is more of a box safety and he feels like there is a difference of opinion in Denver about his present value. It is possible that the true strong safety is going to become a situational player. If and when a fullback or an in-line tight end enters the game, there is a reason to send the box safety into the game. But if a team is in a three-receiver package or has a hybrid tight end with vertical speed, then the old-time safety may have to be on the sideline.
Keep in mind there will have to be a readjustment period to the salary cap as time goes on for box safeties, who wind up playing 50 percent of the snaps as opposed to 100 percent, as they normally did in the past. Defensive coaches know the offenses are trying to create matchups or force box players to work in space and they can't continue to let offenses have their way every Sunday. Players such as Kellen Winslow, Reggie Bush, and Brian Westbrook have served notice to the strong safeties that they may have to be off the field in certain situations.
Defensive linemen substitue freely by down and distance situations. Linebackers are replaced by cornerbacks when a third wide receiver enters the game. It looks as if it's time to marry the strong safety to personnel groupings that present power run issues and not matchup problems.
Today's NFL is turning some positions into endangered species
Article also talks about the Mike backers.
Strong safety
The strong safety is another position that has undergone a pretty major transformation in recent years, and the Cover Two again plays a part. Dallas strong safety Roy Williams is still a good football player, but what he does best (drop down into the box and support the run defense) is not what the Cowboys need most. Adam Archuleta was recently released by the Bears because he was a "box" safety as well.
John Lynch is more of a box safety and he feels like there is a difference of opinion in Denver about his present value. It is possible that the true strong safety is going to become a situational player. If and when a fullback or an in-line tight end enters the game, there is a reason to send the box safety into the game. But if a team is in a three-receiver package or has a hybrid tight end with vertical speed, then the old-time safety may have to be on the sideline.
Keep in mind there will have to be a readjustment period to the salary cap as time goes on for box safeties, who wind up playing 50 percent of the snaps as opposed to 100 percent, as they normally did in the past. Defensive coaches know the offenses are trying to create matchups or force box players to work in space and they can't continue to let offenses have their way every Sunday. Players such as Kellen Winslow, Reggie Bush, and Brian Westbrook have served notice to the strong safeties that they may have to be off the field in certain situations.
Defensive linemen substitue freely by down and distance situations. Linebackers are replaced by cornerbacks when a third wide receiver enters the game. It looks as if it's time to marry the strong safety to personnel groupings that present power run issues and not matchup problems.
Today's NFL is turning some positions into endangered species
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