Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Steve Smith (Carolina) breaks arm (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter identikit
- Start date
Phurfur
Footballguy
AJFitzMossWho can beat this WR corps: Steve Smith CAR, Wes Welker NE & Vincent Jackson SD
pantherclub
Footballguy
He was playing in the finals of a flag football league.
Todem
Footballguy
So it was pointed out he broke a clause in his contract. My feeling is since this was for a charity he is involved in he recieved prior permission from the team. Otherwise this would be all over the news about a violation of his contract.
So bottom line is he is out till probably week one. I have no worries about Mighty Mouse. It is a tad troubling that he broke the same arm...but all indications are he will make a full recovery and be playing by the season opener.
So bottom line is he is out till probably week one. I have no worries about Mighty Mouse. It is a tad troubling that he broke the same arm...but all indications are he will make a full recovery and be playing by the season opener.
Last edited by a moderator:
34=Sweetness
Footballguy
http://deadspin.com/5569428/steve-smith-br...-against-adults
This keeps getting funnier. He signs up under an alias for an over-30 flag football rec league, and his team is so bad they lose the first game. So what does he do? Recruit two more NFLers (Josh McCown! His first starting gig in years!) to join the league so they can dominate!
It'd be pretty funny if he got hurt because one of the other players was intentionally trying to injure him
This keeps getting funnier. He signs up under an alias for an over-30 flag football rec league, and his team is so bad they lose the first game. So what does he do? Recruit two more NFLers (Josh McCown! His first starting gig in years!) to join the league so they can dominate!
It'd be pretty funny if he got hurt because one of the other players was intentionally trying to injure him
Avery
Footballguy
I'm by no means a lawyer or have any expertise in interpreting contracts, but I do know what "or" means.
Avery
Footballguy
I thought he broke it after his camp, in an adult YMCA sponsored rec league and (perhaps) tried to hide his participation in that league by saying he broke it at his camp.Not sure though.
Arch Stanton
Footballguy
Perhaps you missed the bolded part of the statement.
identikit
Footballguy
Smith's value unaffected by arm fracture
by Stephania Bell
Jun 22 12:04 PM ET
It's déjà vu all over again for Carolina Panthers' star receiver Steve Smith.
Just days shy of being six months removed from surgery to stabilize a left forearm fracture sustained in Week 16 of the 2009 season, he suffered yet another break that required yet another operation to insert more hardware. Smith will miss at least the start of training camp while his left forearm heals -- again.
Darin Gantt of the Charlotte Observer is reporting that the broken bone in question is the radius, the same bone Smith fractured in December. The radius is one of the two bones of the forearm, and it runs from the elbow toward the thumb side of the wrist joint. The radius is commonly broken by falling on an outstretched arm (which is how Smith's agent, Derrick Fox, indicates this latest injury occurred) or by a direct blow, which is what happened to Smith in December when his forearm met squarely with the helmet of New York Giants' safety Michael Johnson after a 27-yard reception. (For what it's worth, Smith still hung onto the ball and scored a touchdown on that play with a "floppy" broken forearm, securing his tough-as-nails reputation).
Despite this being the second break in his forearm, there are some encouraging aspects to Smith's injury. Since the fracture is in the shaft (the long portion) of the bone and not at the wrist joint, he is not expected to have significant range of motion concerns for his wrist and hand. Fox stated that Smith suffered no nerve damage, another positive, meaning the function of his wrist and hand musculature, as well as his sensation in the area, remains intact.
The good news at this point is that Smith is expected to be ready for the season opener when the Panthers visit the New York Giants on Sept. 12. Fractures require roughly six weeks for full healing, assuming no complications. That translates to him returning the latter part of the first week of training camp. Even as the forearm heals, Smith should be able to undergo physical training and conditioning to maintain his cardiovascular fitness and lower-body strength. He will then have an additional six weeks until the season opener. Based on this timetable, Smith should have an opportunity to get some work in with his team and perhaps even some preseason competition before the season gets under way.
Will there be any concerns about the risk for that forearm going forward? It's safe to say, given the fact this bone has been broken twice within six months, there could be concern the arm might be vulnerable. After all, it's possible the first injury made the forearm slightly more susceptible to this break, although no one could have predicted that with any degree of certainty. Smith's initial injury required the insertion of a plate and screws to help stabilize the broken bone. The plate forms a bridge across the broken ends and essentially keeps them still while new bone forms to repair the break. But that hardware, while necessary to facilitate proper healing, can present a challenge of its own where it interfaces with the bone.
Although we often think of bone as hard and unyielding, it does have some capacity to accommodate bending and torsion or twisting forces. Steel plates, however, might alter how forces are absorbed. When a bone with implanted hardware is subject to bending or twisting, which might occur with a fall on an outstretched arm, instead of being evenly dispersed across the bone, those forces can concentrate at the bone-hardware interface, typically a weak point, and lead to re-injury.
In a paper presented at the 1989 American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons Meeting, a 10-year review of NFL players who had undergone surgical stabilization of forearm fractures with plates and screws revealed a 17 percent re-fracture rate following return to play. That translates to nearly one in five players who end up re-injuring the area despite uneventful, uncomplicated surgery and rehab. Recent examples include safety Roy Williams, who first fractured his forearm while with the Dallas Cowboys in 2008 then re-injured it in 2009 with the Cincinnati Bengals, and Buffalo Bills linebacker Paul Posluszny, who fractured his forearm as a rookie in 2007 and again in 2009. So why not just take the plates and screws out? That's a discussion that is ongoing in the medical community. Unfortunately, removal of hardware leaves holes in the bone, specifically where screws were implanted. Those holes are weak spots in the bone where re-fracturing can also occur, perhaps at an even higher rate than with the hardware in place. The best safeguard against re-injury following screw removal is extended downtime, not necessarily a desirable alternative for a high-level athlete. As it stands, leaving the hardware in place is the most common practice.
Smith's ability to perform at a high level this fall should not be affected presuming his forearm fully heals by the start of the season. Unlike some soft-tissue injuries that might limit a player's speed or agility and consequently affect overall performance, once the bone has healed, Smith should suffer no lingering effects. While it's possible he could re-injure the arm with a fall or a direct blow, it's also possible he could continue without incident.
In Carolina, the issue of who will throw Smith the ball on Sundays or who will line up opposite him at the receiver position might be of bigger concern than his health. While fantasy owners should monitor Smith's progress as their draft day approaches, they should expect him to be ready to open this NFL season against the very team that ended his last one.
http://espn.go.com/sports/fantasy/blog/_/n...ed-arm-fracture
by Stephania Bell
Jun 22 12:04 PM ET
It's déjà vu all over again for Carolina Panthers' star receiver Steve Smith.
Just days shy of being six months removed from surgery to stabilize a left forearm fracture sustained in Week 16 of the 2009 season, he suffered yet another break that required yet another operation to insert more hardware. Smith will miss at least the start of training camp while his left forearm heals -- again.
Darin Gantt of the Charlotte Observer is reporting that the broken bone in question is the radius, the same bone Smith fractured in December. The radius is one of the two bones of the forearm, and it runs from the elbow toward the thumb side of the wrist joint. The radius is commonly broken by falling on an outstretched arm (which is how Smith's agent, Derrick Fox, indicates this latest injury occurred) or by a direct blow, which is what happened to Smith in December when his forearm met squarely with the helmet of New York Giants' safety Michael Johnson after a 27-yard reception. (For what it's worth, Smith still hung onto the ball and scored a touchdown on that play with a "floppy" broken forearm, securing his tough-as-nails reputation).
Despite this being the second break in his forearm, there are some encouraging aspects to Smith's injury. Since the fracture is in the shaft (the long portion) of the bone and not at the wrist joint, he is not expected to have significant range of motion concerns for his wrist and hand. Fox stated that Smith suffered no nerve damage, another positive, meaning the function of his wrist and hand musculature, as well as his sensation in the area, remains intact.
The good news at this point is that Smith is expected to be ready for the season opener when the Panthers visit the New York Giants on Sept. 12. Fractures require roughly six weeks for full healing, assuming no complications. That translates to him returning the latter part of the first week of training camp. Even as the forearm heals, Smith should be able to undergo physical training and conditioning to maintain his cardiovascular fitness and lower-body strength. He will then have an additional six weeks until the season opener. Based on this timetable, Smith should have an opportunity to get some work in with his team and perhaps even some preseason competition before the season gets under way.
Will there be any concerns about the risk for that forearm going forward? It's safe to say, given the fact this bone has been broken twice within six months, there could be concern the arm might be vulnerable. After all, it's possible the first injury made the forearm slightly more susceptible to this break, although no one could have predicted that with any degree of certainty. Smith's initial injury required the insertion of a plate and screws to help stabilize the broken bone. The plate forms a bridge across the broken ends and essentially keeps them still while new bone forms to repair the break. But that hardware, while necessary to facilitate proper healing, can present a challenge of its own where it interfaces with the bone.
Although we often think of bone as hard and unyielding, it does have some capacity to accommodate bending and torsion or twisting forces. Steel plates, however, might alter how forces are absorbed. When a bone with implanted hardware is subject to bending or twisting, which might occur with a fall on an outstretched arm, instead of being evenly dispersed across the bone, those forces can concentrate at the bone-hardware interface, typically a weak point, and lead to re-injury.
In a paper presented at the 1989 American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons Meeting, a 10-year review of NFL players who had undergone surgical stabilization of forearm fractures with plates and screws revealed a 17 percent re-fracture rate following return to play. That translates to nearly one in five players who end up re-injuring the area despite uneventful, uncomplicated surgery and rehab. Recent examples include safety Roy Williams, who first fractured his forearm while with the Dallas Cowboys in 2008 then re-injured it in 2009 with the Cincinnati Bengals, and Buffalo Bills linebacker Paul Posluszny, who fractured his forearm as a rookie in 2007 and again in 2009. So why not just take the plates and screws out? That's a discussion that is ongoing in the medical community. Unfortunately, removal of hardware leaves holes in the bone, specifically where screws were implanted. Those holes are weak spots in the bone where re-fracturing can also occur, perhaps at an even higher rate than with the hardware in place. The best safeguard against re-injury following screw removal is extended downtime, not necessarily a desirable alternative for a high-level athlete. As it stands, leaving the hardware in place is the most common practice.
Smith's ability to perform at a high level this fall should not be affected presuming his forearm fully heals by the start of the season. Unlike some soft-tissue injuries that might limit a player's speed or agility and consequently affect overall performance, once the bone has healed, Smith should suffer no lingering effects. While it's possible he could re-injure the arm with a fall or a direct blow, it's also possible he could continue without incident.
In Carolina, the issue of who will throw Smith the ball on Sundays or who will line up opposite him at the receiver position might be of bigger concern than his health. While fantasy owners should monitor Smith's progress as their draft day approaches, they should expect him to be ready to open this NFL season against the very team that ended his last one.
http://espn.go.com/sports/fantasy/blog/_/n...ed-arm-fracture
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
So, according to your interpretation, Smith couldn't host a youth football camp and throw a pass to an 8-year-old without getting prior written consent from the Panthers?
Avery
Footballguy
I wouldn't expect the Panthers to be asses about it, but what do you think the clause means?
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
No doubt it's a moot point because the Panthers won't want to void the contract, but "play football" and "engage in football activities" are terms that have multiple definitions. If I was Smith, I would argue that the clause is designed to prevent him from playing football for another team, and recreational flag football doesn't count as that. If Smith wanted to play catch with Matt Moore on their own time, I don't think the contract, as written, requires him to get the Panthers' consent. Flag football would be a bit of a gray area, I think.
Read the comments below the article...I have to give the poster credit for discovering "Steve" Smith's alais of "Stephon"...of Stephon Q. Erkel fame...brilliant!!!
Avery
Footballguy
Like you said it's somewhat of a moot point, but for the sake of discussion you think Smith could argue successfully that flag football is not either:1. Playing football or
2. An activity related to football?
Not to mention, an "activity other than football which may involve a significant risk of personal injury"? Given the injury other players have sustained playing flag football (see Robert Edwards) I'm not sure he could even argue that successfully.
Last edited by a moderator:
redBourne
Footballguy
You could argue this anyway you want to. The point being, it's most likely a clause in the contract that the Panthers use to cover their respective ###3$. Whether they choose to exercise that part of the contract is completely up to them. I'm sure it's generic enough so that it covers EVERYTHING. Just a good business practice really. This seems inherently difficult for some people to believe.
CalBear
Footballguy
Please stop with the "significant risk of personal injury" thing. No rational person would consider flag football as a sport which carries a significant risk of personal injury, nor could you successfully argue that position in court. The likelihood of injury is low, and the potential impact is moderate (strain/sprain/break, not disability/death except in freak cases).
pantherclub
Footballguy
This whole contract thing has your brain in knots doesnt it? If flag football doesnt have any risk then why is it specifically stated in his contract that he cannot play it? Why must he feel he needs to create a fake name to play in this adult league?
Of course it can be held up in court. Robert Edwards is Exhibit #1...not sure what you think can/cannot be done to show he did not put himself in a bad position with a bunch of weekend "yahoos". These men (atheletes) are to be treated like veal in the offseason, and unless he can convince a court that the FF league was "conditioning-based", I don't see where Smith has a chance. With that said, both parties will appear to be peeved and "make up" by the start of the year. Hurney/Fox cannot survive the year sans Smith, and Smith plays like a Boldin and is 2 years older...Father time is ticking on our "ticking timebomb".
JamesTheScot
Footballguy
His contract doesn't say he can't play flag football. Flag football isn't football, it's flag football. The fact that its name has "flag" in front of it is a clue. There's a significant enough difference in the two that the descriptive term "flag" is put in front of one version to differentiate between the two sports. You think that's by accident or just because someone thought the word "flag" didn't get enough play in our language? You don't think the contact element in football, and lack thereof in flag football, is a pretty important difference in the two sports?Similarly, if my contract says I can't ride motorcylces, would I think that includes mopeds or bicycles as well? Or would I think that the risk of riding a motorcycle on public roads at 55mph is a greater risk than that posed by me riding my bicycle over to the neighbor's house to call the kids home for supper?What do you think creates a significant risk of personal injury? Working out? Running? Sprinting? Backpedaling? Jazzercise? Catching balls tossed at you from a mechanical thrower? What about flag football creates a geater risk than any of these activities which Smith would be encouraged to engage in to keep up his off-season conditioning.pantherclub said:
Last edited by a moderator:
Arch Stanton
Footballguy
YesChase Stuart said:
CalBear
Footballguy
The standard of evidence for "significant risk" will be whether there is a moderate likelihood of injury, or whether a low-probability injury is likely to result in severe consequences. Neither is true for flag football. Robert Edwards isn't proof of a moderate likelihood of injury, any more than Stafon Johnson is proof of a moderate likelihood of injury lifting weights.Sweet Love said:
CalBear
Footballguy
Flag football isn't specifically stated in the contract. And football is mentioned because Smith cannot represent himself as a member of the Carolina Panthers football team without their consent, not because it's potentially dangerous. Which is why he used an alias.pantherclub said:
So the players will just open up their own league and sell it PPV so they can feed their family if the greedy owners lock them out.
Avery
Footballguy
So you're saying you know why that clause was put in there? I'd love to hear where you got that information.Interesting that they would put in a clause that mentions playing football and football related activities along with potentially dangerous activities since, according to you, they are not related in the intent of the contract.
CalBear
Footballguy
Why is no other sport listed? Are none of them dangerous?
Avery
Footballguy
First of all, we don't know they're not. I don't think anyone here has seen the entire contract. We only know of one specific clause.Second of all, football players are often asked to participate in charity and for profit exhibition games. After all, it's their job. It's what they are famous for. Therefore it makes sense to specifically forbid it, without prior consent.
Creed Bratton
Footballguy
According to your interpretation, Steve Smith can't even go out to play football in his own backyard with his kid. I'm pretty sure you're interpreting the clause all wrong.
Avery
Footballguy
34=Sweetness
Footballguy
The likelihood of any non-contact injury is the same as it is in tackle football.If he planted wrong and tore his ACL, would you say thats pretty bad, correct?CalBear said:
CalBear
Footballguy
No, I would say that's a possible outcome of any kind of sport.
Following this line of logic, would it be correct to infer that he could play "arena" football? I mean, they do have the word "arena" in there for a reason to "differentiate between the two sports"...
34=Sweetness
Footballguy
What exactly is your argument? That the contract clause is unfair?Also, dude was moonlighting trying to dominate a rec league with his NFL friends.
CalBear
Footballguy
My argument is that flag football and other casual sports do not constitute sports with a "significant risk of bodily injury." There is some risk, but it is not a significant risk, which is why flag football players don't wear pads and helmets.
pantherclub
Footballguy
The Panthers disagree with you.
Avery
Footballguy
Some would argue that flag football is playing football, however.Just like tackle football is playing football.
34=Sweetness
Footballguy
They won't because they are trying to all save their jobs, so that's a moot point.Say its Albert Haynesworth who hurt himself playing flag football. The Redskins would void that so quickly it'd make your head spin.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
This.
