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Steven Jackson holding out? (1 Viewer)
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wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
Have the Rams always had training camp in Wisconsin?
St. Louis Bob
Footballguy
This is the first year. The last 4-5 years it was here and up in Macomb Illinois before that.
acefootball
Footballguy
I thought this would get wrapped up pretty quick but this makes me wonder..........
Link
Jackson rejects offer
Steven Jackson has turned down a long term contract offered to him Friday morning by the Rams which would placed him amongst the highest paid running backs in the NFL. However, Friday afternoon his agent called the Rams that they were turning down the offer. The Rams told Eugene Parker that SJ would be fined for everyday he missed camp and that they would only continue negotiations once he reported to camp.
Link
Jackson rejects offer
Steven Jackson has turned down a long term contract offered to him Friday morning by the Rams which would placed him amongst the highest paid running backs in the NFL. However, Friday afternoon his agent called the Rams that they were turning down the offer. The Rams told Eugene Parker that SJ would be fined for everyday he missed camp and that they would only continue negotiations once he reported to camp.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
damn, and I was hoping to get his signature this year...
Al Toon's Mole
Footballguy
What's the deal with this?
He had a tear in his groin last year, and it was mentioned that it may still not be fully 100%. Now he is holding out for a new contract.
Any Rams homers chime in here? If he is healthy, then play out the year and earn a huge payday with a monster year. But if he is somehow still hampered at all from the groin....who's next in line for touches? Pittman, Leonard??
He had a tear in his groin last year, and it was mentioned that it may still not be fully 100%. Now he is holding out for a new contract.
Any Rams homers chime in here? If he is healthy, then play out the year and earn a huge payday with a monster year. But if he is somehow still hampered at all from the groin....who's next in line for touches? Pittman, Leonard??
Winning IS Everything
Footballguy
Yep.... My son is a HUGE Rams fan (and Jackson in particular), and living an hour from camp we were looking forward to going to camp yesterday specifically to see him. Fortunately I saw online he was holding out and it saved us the trip.I think he will report by the end of the week. Parker's other clients are slowing signing/reporting...........
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TheFanatic
Footballguy
The problem here is that SJax wants to be the highest paid RB. Something I don't think he deserves. The guy has had a couple good years but that's it so far. His previous agent actually fired SJax because of SJax' demands and he knew that the Rams wouldn't pay it. So, just a few weeks before camp he actually hires this new agent. So the Rams didn't have anyone to negotiate with till just recently.
The Rams are saying, get into camp and we will get this done as a good faith gesture since they didn't have anyone to negotiate with prior to just recently. They locked up every one of their big name players in the past and required them all to be in camp. Holt, Faulk, Pace, Bruce, Warner (didn't have a contract at all and reported to camp) Bulger, etc all came to camp and got taken care of.
But SJax' opinion here is that if they aren't going to make him the highest paid RB, then why should he report.
My feeling is, report, negotiate, if the two sides can't come to an agreement then leave camp. Brian Leonard, Travis Minor and Antonio Pittman are not anything to intimidate a D. SJax has quite a bit of leverage but he also hasn't earned the right to get paid as the highest paid RB.
The Rams are saying, get into camp and we will get this done as a good faith gesture since they didn't have anyone to negotiate with prior to just recently. They locked up every one of their big name players in the past and required them all to be in camp. Holt, Faulk, Pace, Bruce, Warner (didn't have a contract at all and reported to camp) Bulger, etc all came to camp and got taken care of.
But SJax' opinion here is that if they aren't going to make him the highest paid RB, then why should he report.
My feeling is, report, negotiate, if the two sides can't come to an agreement then leave camp. Brian Leonard, Travis Minor and Antonio Pittman are not anything to intimidate a D. SJax has quite a bit of leverage but he also hasn't earned the right to get paid as the highest paid RB.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
On the radio this morning they reported that the Rams offered a deal to SJax comparable to the LJ deal. SJax would've been the 4th highest paid back in the league. He turned it down...
BoltBacker
Footballguy
He's a top 3, top 4 back at the age of 25. Since the salary cap run up if you're a top 4 back at his age I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to get the biggest RB salary. This is not a Shaun Alexander situation where you're giving big $ to a guy right around 30yo. The fact he's only been in the league a few years and is already one of the best backs in the league is exactly why he's worth the $.People get caught up in "Well he should be the best back in the league if he wants to be the highest paid back" but that's bs imo. Who are the guys in the league that are better than he is? LT has had his deal for awhile now, negotiated when the NFL salary cap was smaller. Peterson is playing on his rookie contract(and really has proven even less if you're hung up on Jackson only having a couple of good years). Westbrook is older and isn't happy with his deal either. A lot of factors go into who is the highest paid player at a given position at a given time.
BigRed
Footballguy
No it's not BS and no he doesn't deserve #1 RB money, esp given his inability to stay healthy. If he's getting offered top 4 $ and turning it down IMO he's a putz and they should call his bluff and let him sit there and pout and lose millions in the process. It's not like they were SB bound anyway.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
The problem with him is that he has a year left beyond this one on his deal and he can't seem to stay healthy. Tack on the fact that he has done a pretty good job of alienating the fan base here in St. Louis and the Rams have a point and the 4th best RB offer seems like good money.Now from SJ's perspective the Rams have no one in the backfield that can remotely do what he can. The Rams are potentially on the block with the kids of Georgia looking to possibly part ways with the franchise. The coach is on the hot seat and the fan base is not just pissed at SJ but at the Rams for stinking up the joint last year. So he has some leverage. If they up the offer to 2nd or 3rd highest paid back and he balks I'm gonna start getting pissed. Right now I think he can still leverage a bit more out of the team and still not come off like a D-Bag. Much more after that and he's going to really piss off the fans...
MCguidance
Footballguy
Winning IS Everything
Footballguy
Usually one or two holdouts a year run into this issue. They usually report before this happens. I still think Jackson just wants to miss the grueling 1st week of camp and will be in by the end of the week or early next week.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
This could be the case and I hope that this is the case. And he does have some leverage with the guys playing behind him so he can chill out, let his agent work his magic and be in camp in time for th last 3 preseason games....
TheFanatic
Footballguy
BoltBacker
Footballguy
In four years he's missed 7 games, I'm not sure if durability is that much of an issue in these negotiations. He's certainly been healthy enough to be very productive.Let me ask you this, if the contracts of all NFL RB's were equal right now... how many RB's would you trade in exchange for Steven Jackson? Westbrook at his age? Tomlinson with his milage? I guess most people would put him behind Peterson, but a lot of those people are the same ones saying LJ was a world beater(based on dominating part of an NFL season behind an excellent OL) who was supposed to be a 2000+/20+ guy given a full season workload. I'm not sure if I'd go as far as saying S.Jax should be ranked as high as Peterson but if you put S.Jax behind the MIN OL I think his production would be much closer to Peterson than Taylor and imo Chester Taylor has looked very good playing behind that line.I'd be surprised if either Jackson or Peterson get extended for anything less than the highest paid RB in the league.
The Man with the Plan
Footballguy
Basically if he wants to get the big bucks (huge signing bonus, long term deal) a deal has to get done ASAP. Otherwise he could be waiting a while because he'll be a restricted free-agent instead of unrestricted.I got no problem with players trying to get as much as they can. The fans may get mad at Steven Jackson but if he's on their team rushing for over 1500 yards and 20 touchdowns they'll get over it pretty quickly.My brain hurts from reading that. Any capologists want to translate this?
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metoo
Footballguy
This will get resolved before the season as always. If he was a rookie, I would be concerned.I can't complain because SJAX won me a championship year before last, but I have to draft next week and I need to know that the guy isn't going to turn into a headcase and have a long term holdout before I draft him.I may have to take Addai, Gore or Moss instead of SJAX.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
He needs to know well before the season and this could drag that long....This will get resolved before the season as always. If he was a rookie, I would be concerned.I can't complain because SJAX won me a championship year before last, but I have to draft next week and I need to know that the guy isn't going to turn into a headcase and have a long term holdout before I draft him.
I may have to take Addai, Gore or Moss instead of SJAX.
metoo
Footballguy
Do you really think Jackson is going to miss any games? If you have Jackson ranked 3rd, take him.TheFanatic said:He needs to know well before the season and this could drag that long....metoo said:This will get resolved before the season as always. If he was a rookie, I would be concerned.acapella said:I can't complain because SJAX won me a championship year before last, but I have to draft next week and I need to know that the guy isn't going to turn into a headcase and have a long term holdout before I draft him.
I may have to take Addai, Gore or Moss instead of SJAX.
twitch
Footballguy
Its been reported on I believe NFL Network that its highly likely Jackson will be reporting by Aug. 8th, which will be 30 days before the official beginning of the Rams season, and the final year of his existing contract. So in order for him to protect his potential FA status for next season, he needs to be in by the 8th.
I'm a bit surprised that there hasn't been more interest in the SJax contract impasse. Since SJax and his agent turned down the contract offer that would have made him the 4th highest paid RB in the league there has been no contact since July 25.
St Louis refuses to negotiate further until he reports to camp and SJax refuses to report without a new contract. This has the potential to get very ugly since both sides refuse to blink (at least up to this point).
Personally I think that an offer to make SJax the 4th highest paid RB was a good enough show of faith that he should at least show up at training camp. Maybe I'm being a bit paranoid but a player under contract with a bit of an injury history who refuses to show up at training camp without a new contract is a red flag to me. The Rams made a good faith offer and I don't understand why Sjax doesn't reciprocate by showing up and demonstrating that he is healthy and worth the kind of contract extension that he thinks that he deserves.
I like the Rams policy of not renegotiating with a player under contract who refuses to show up at training camp. I hope they stick to their guns and let SJax sit. It's not like the Rams are going to the SB with (or without) SJax.
St Louis refuses to negotiate further until he reports to camp and SJax refuses to report without a new contract. This has the potential to get very ugly since both sides refuse to blink (at least up to this point).
Personally I think that an offer to make SJax the 4th highest paid RB was a good enough show of faith that he should at least show up at training camp. Maybe I'm being a bit paranoid but a player under contract with a bit of an injury history who refuses to show up at training camp without a new contract is a red flag to me. The Rams made a good faith offer and I don't understand why Sjax doesn't reciprocate by showing up and demonstrating that he is healthy and worth the kind of contract extension that he thinks that he deserves.
I like the Rams policy of not renegotiating with a player under contract who refuses to show up at training camp. I hope they stick to their guns and let SJax sit. It's not like the Rams are going to the SB with (or without) SJax.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
I heard somewhere that the clause about missing a year of eligibility is 30 days before the NFL season starts. Not the Rams season. If that were true then then 30 days before the start of the NFL season is, uh, today. Either way
ETA this from a little higher up in the thread:
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GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Two biggest holdouts right now: Steven Jackson and Jason Peters
Agent for Steven Jackson: Eugene Parker
Agent for Jason Peters: Eugene Parker
Both teams have now said that they will not negotiate until their player is in camp.
Seems like a pretty large gamble by Mr. Parker that isn't paying off so far. Is he really prepared to tell both players to hold out until Week 10? That would be about $500k in fines for both players, plus losing 60% of their salary for the season, plus missing out on any bonuses/escalators, plus the team is eligible to go after a pro-rated portion of the signing bonus.
That's a heck of a lot of money lost from sitting out. Then teams are going to look at those players are difficult to deal with and perhaps even a little rusty from sitting out so long. Is it really going to be worth it? Especially for Peters who still has THREE years left on his contract?
See, Parker came on board for both players AFTER they signed their deals. So he isn't making a dime off of them yet. The only way he gets money, is if he gets them new contracts. And he has chosen to play hardball. So far it hasn't worked in his favor at all.
Frankly, even though it would hurt my Bills, I'd like to see both teams stick to their guns and tell the players to go fly a kite. Don't let this hardline gamble payoff. If less and less teams give in to these tactics, less and less agents and players will try to pull this garbage.
The Bills haven't even been able to talk directly to Peters since January. He won't answer their calls and refuses to call them back. I don't know if Jackson is the same or not. My guess is that Parker is telling them to let him do all the communication which means he controls exactly what the players are hearing from the team. This guy is obviously trying to make a bigger name for himself, hopefully it backfires and players stay away from him in the future.
Agent for Steven Jackson: Eugene Parker
Agent for Jason Peters: Eugene Parker
Both teams have now said that they will not negotiate until their player is in camp.
Seems like a pretty large gamble by Mr. Parker that isn't paying off so far. Is he really prepared to tell both players to hold out until Week 10? That would be about $500k in fines for both players, plus losing 60% of their salary for the season, plus missing out on any bonuses/escalators, plus the team is eligible to go after a pro-rated portion of the signing bonus.
That's a heck of a lot of money lost from sitting out. Then teams are going to look at those players are difficult to deal with and perhaps even a little rusty from sitting out so long. Is it really going to be worth it? Especially for Peters who still has THREE years left on his contract?
See, Parker came on board for both players AFTER they signed their deals. So he isn't making a dime off of them yet. The only way he gets money, is if he gets them new contracts. And he has chosen to play hardball. So far it hasn't worked in his favor at all.
Frankly, even though it would hurt my Bills, I'd like to see both teams stick to their guns and tell the players to go fly a kite. Don't let this hardline gamble payoff. If less and less teams give in to these tactics, less and less agents and players will try to pull this garbage.
The Bills haven't even been able to talk directly to Peters since January. He won't answer their calls and refuses to call them back. I don't know if Jackson is the same or not. My guess is that Parker is telling them to let him do all the communication which means he controls exactly what the players are hearing from the team. This guy is obviously trying to make a bigger name for himself, hopefully it backfires and players stay away from him in the future.
massraider
Footballguy
If Jackson doesn't report today, he loses a year of seniority towards free agency. According to ESPN, he isn't showing today.
What the heck is he thinking?
Listen, most holdouts don't amount too much, but if Jackson gives up a year of eligibility towards free agency, it means he is very, very serious.
What the heck is he thinking?
Listen, most holdouts don't amount too much, but if Jackson gives up a year of eligibility towards free agency, it means he is very, very serious.
Lott's Fingertip
Footballguy
I'm hoping that Jackson not reporting today means that he is confident a deal will get done (maybe he just needs a little more than the Rams offered?), so the free agency thing won't matter.I'm hoping.
AF Retired
Footballguy
I remember another player who happened to play for KC who held out for big money. Then when he couldn't produce to that level, he blamed it on the team for not giving him a contract sooner so he could work out. Yeah, right !!!
Winning IS Everything
Footballguy
As a Jackson owner and fan it pains me to say this, but the Rams should let him rot. They are not likely winning the Super Bowl this year anyway so plug Pittman/Leonard in there and go with it.
Jackson wants to be paid like the #1 RB in the NFL? I am sure the Rams wanted 16 games and 2000 combined yards last year and they didn't get that.
Oh well, sorry for my rant.....................
Jackson wants to be paid like the #1 RB in the NFL? I am sure the Rams wanted 16 games and 2000 combined yards last year and they didn't get that.
Oh well, sorry for my rant.....................
massraider
Footballguy
Well, if there's good news, that is it. That Jax wants to stay in St. Looey, and is more concerned with signing with the Rams, and less concerned with free agency. It's a dangerous gamble. He's getting some bad advice.I'm hoping that Jackson not reporting today means that he is confident a deal will get done (maybe he just needs a little more than the Rams offered?), so the free agency thing won't matter.I'm hoping.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
I've heard a couple of interviews with Linehan stating that he has done some texting back and forth with Jax so I take that as a positive note. What's just nuts here is the Rams have made the requirement to report to camp to all of their big players in order to negotiate for a new deal and each and every time they have showed up and each and every time they got the deal done. Jax is an idiot...
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Well, if there's good news, that is it. That Jax wants to stay in St. Looey, and is more concerned with signing with the Rams, and less concerned with free agency. It's a dangerous gamble. He's getting some bad advice.I'm hoping that Jackson not reporting today means that he is confident a deal will get done (maybe he just needs a little more than the Rams offered?), so the free agency thing won't matter.I'm hoping.
Parker is seriously screwing over Jackson and Peters. The fact that Jackson is going to lose a year of eligibility actually strengthens the Rams' hand now. Either Jackson signs an extension with the Rams, or he has 2 more years before becoming a RFA. So that's 3 years from now that he'd have before hitting the big money. And if he's playing just 6 games a season during those two more seasons with the Rams, then he's not getting a big payday anyway.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
He doesn't have to sign the extension to not lose the year of eligibility. He simply has to report to camp 30 days before the start of the regular season....He just has to walk in the front friggin door and he retains that year of eligibility.Well, if there's good news, that is it. That Jax wants to stay in St. Looey, and is more concerned with signing with the Rams, and less concerned with free agency. It's a dangerous gamble. He's getting some bad advice.I'm hoping that Jackson not reporting today means that he is confident a deal will get done (maybe he just needs a little more than the Rams offered?), so the free agency thing won't matter.I'm hoping.
massraider
Footballguy
Exactly. From a business standpoint, this is an all-time bonehaed move.He doesn't have to sign the extension to not lose the year of eligibility. He simply has to report to camp 30 days before the start of the regular season....He just has to walk in the front friggin door and he retains that year of eligibility.Well, if there's good news, that is it. That Jax wants to stay in St. Looey, and is more concerned with signing with the Rams, and less concerned with free agency. It's a dangerous gamble. He's getting some bad advice.I'm hoping that Jackson not reporting today means that he is confident a deal will get done (maybe he just needs a little more than the Rams offered?), so the free agency thing won't matter.I'm hoping.
agreed Geeeez just show up and see how ya can get a deal done. Pace reported and signed like the next day..
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Agreed. I was just assuming that he isn't going to report today since that's the rumor. In which case, all he managed to do was significantly weaken his own bargaining position. If he shows up, he at least adds another year of eligibility and can be an UFA at the end of the year if something doesn't get done.He doesn't have to sign the extension to not lose the year of eligibility. He simply has to report to camp 30 days before the start of the regular season....He just has to walk in the front friggin door and he retains that year of eligibility.Well, if there's good news, that is it. That Jax wants to stay in St. Looey, and is more concerned with signing with the Rams, and less concerned with free agency. It's a dangerous gamble. He's getting some bad advice.I'm hoping that Jackson not reporting today means that he is confident a deal will get done (maybe he just needs a little more than the Rams offered?), so the free agency thing won't matter.I'm hoping.
Parker is seriously screwing over Jackson and Peters. The fact that Jackson is going to lose a year of eligibility actually strengthens the Rams' hand now. Either Jackson signs an extension with the Rams, or he has 2 more years before becoming a RFA. So that's 3 years from now that he'd have before hitting the big money. And if he's playing just 6 games a season during those two more seasons with the Rams, then he's not getting a big payday anyway.
dapunisher
Footballguy
From Eugene Parker's wikipedia entry:
Clients
Some of Parker's clients include:
Hines Ward (Super Bowl XL MVP and four-time Pro Bowler)
Richard Seymour (4 time all pro)
Walter Jones (5 time all pro)
Emmitt Smith (NFL all time leading rusher)
Larry Fitzgerald (All pro)
Derrick Brooks (9 time all pro)
Rod Woodson (11 time all pro)
Aeneas Williams (8 time all pro)
Rex Grossman (Super Bowl QB)
Devin Hester (NFL record holder, all pro)
Cedric Benson (Super Bowl running back)
Curtis Martin (5 time all pro)
Laveranues Coles (all pro receiver)
Jason Peters (all pro left tackle)
James Hardy (Bills 2008 2nd Round Draft Pick)
Felix Jones (Cowboys 2008 1st Round Draft Pick]
Tashard Choice (Cowboys 2008 3rd Round Draft Pick)
Steven Jackson (St. Louis Rams star running back)
As of August 1st, 2008, Jason Peters, and Steven Jackson were both holding out for new contracts.
So he has only two holdouts?
Clients
Some of Parker's clients include:
Hines Ward (Super Bowl XL MVP and four-time Pro Bowler)
Richard Seymour (4 time all pro)
Walter Jones (5 time all pro)
Emmitt Smith (NFL all time leading rusher)
Larry Fitzgerald (All pro)
Derrick Brooks (9 time all pro)
Rod Woodson (11 time all pro)
Aeneas Williams (8 time all pro)
Rex Grossman (Super Bowl QB)
Devin Hester (NFL record holder, all pro)
Cedric Benson (Super Bowl running back)
Curtis Martin (5 time all pro)
Laveranues Coles (all pro receiver)
Jason Peters (all pro left tackle)
James Hardy (Bills 2008 2nd Round Draft Pick)
Felix Jones (Cowboys 2008 1st Round Draft Pick]
Tashard Choice (Cowboys 2008 3rd Round Draft Pick)
Steven Jackson (St. Louis Rams star running back)
As of August 1st, 2008, Jason Peters, and Steven Jackson were both holding out for new contracts.
So he has only two holdouts?
Winning IS Everything
Footballguy
Hester was a holdout, albeit for only one day. Fitzgerald at least gave a hint of the same but got his new deal a while back.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Well a bunch of these guys are retired. A few are rookies this year which have much less wiggle room to negotiate. One is Benson who is out of the league. Hester threatened a hold out. They told him to come to camp. He did, they signed a deal. Fitz got a new deal this year too.
One thing with Jax though is his agent fired him and he only hired this guy about 6 weeks before TC.
massraider
Footballguy
If his advice costs his client a year of eligibility, his competence needs to be questioned.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Well, let's eliminate all of his retired players (plus Benson since he'll be lucky to even end up on a team). Hardy, Jones and Choice were all rookies and none were taken all that high. So not much risk of holdouts there.
Hester was potentially a holdout until he got a ridiculous contract from the Bears. Coles is constantly whining about his contract. Ward held out a long way through training camp a few years ago, as did Walters. Seems like the guy has an MO of players that either threaten, or do hold out.
So far it's worked for him. We'll see what happens here. If Peters and Jackson don't get extensions with their current teams though, then they'll probably come out on the short end of the stick.
ETA: Looks like plenty of others already had it covered.
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DoubleG
Footballguy
Which it will after today.
massraider
Footballguy
Walter Jones, and Fitz as well, both headaches for their teams.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
It only costs SJax a year of eligibility if he doesn't sign an extension. if he signs a new contract he will be just fine...Which is what his agent is telling him about every hour I'm sure...
