talking strategy (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

Tired of all the run it up and cheating threads. We all have our viewpoint; no one's going to change their mind by now. Let's get down to business and talk about the greatest matchup of our lifetimes:

Key questions:

1. What will Indy do with Bob Sanders? Do they dare keep him in the box to stop the run and slow down the short pass, and then leave the WRs on an island? do they mix him up and try to confuse the Pats ala Polamalu? Do they need to double team Moss?

2. Can Indy get an effective pass rush without constant blitzing? If they do blitz, can they disguise it well enough to throw Brady off his rythym? Or will Brady be able to do what he does in every other game, just stand back and find his targets at will?

3. Will the Pats attempt to blanket Clark with Adalius Thomas? If so, will this disrupt Manning's game? Will NE be able to put effective pressure on Manning?

4. If Harrison is hurt or ailing, will NE bring up a safety to contain Addai? Or will they play back anyway, and allow the Indy running game to get it's yards?

Tons of questions more besides these. NE and Indy homers very welcome, along with anyone else that wants to give SERIOUS analysis about this game. Let's leave the vitriol out of this thread!

 

[Fantaholic]

Good job. Rise above the nonsense timschochet.

With that said, IMHO Sanders is the key to this game defensively for the Colts. I think dropping him back would be playing to Pats strength. Brady will pick them apart like everyobdy else. They need to do what no one has been able to do so far and that is get pressure on Brady.

 

[timschochet]

Good job. Rise above the nonsense timschochet. With that said, IMHO Sanders is the key to this game defensively for the Colts. I think dropping him back would be playing to Pats strength. Brady will pick them apart like everyobdy else. They need to do what no one has been able to do so far and that is get pressure on Brady.

Are you saying they need to blitz Sanders on a regualr basis? And gamble by leaving the Wr's one on one?

 

[timschochet]

I'd also be interested in hearing Patriot fans opinions about what went wrong in the 2nd half of last year's AFC championship game with their defense, and why that will be different this time, especially the difference Adalius Thomas brings to the table...

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Both teams will play straightup, looking to exploit situational tendencies. Indy will blitz a tad more than NE to take advantage of the speed of their defenders, while NE will play softer vs the run and look for opportunities to jump routes. Nothing much new here.

 

[twitch]

Itll be interesting how they play Sanders because I think the very reason NE brought in Randy Moss was to beat Bob Sanders. Sanders' only possible weakness would be in covering Moss downfield, and at 6'4, I think he's gonna have his way against a safety that's 5'8. Moss of course isnt just any receiver. He's not Reche Caldwell. He's not Jabar Gaffney or Troy Brown. NE's going to come out looking to hit the homerun early with Moss or Stallworth, in hopes of keeping Sanders deep. They'll play just the opposite of how they worked Washington, which was to use the run to set up the pass. Here, they'll use the deep early bombs to set up the run. They'll need to keep those safteties, specifically Sanders, as far back as possible in their cover 2 deep, and bring a healthy diet of Maroney. The way NE's Oline has been playing, they'll have their way upfront. They'll have Kyle Brady putting a big body on a LB, and attack that small Colts' front 7 in every direction. But when they decide to hit deep over the top, I think they'll be successful. Again, this game, against this team, these big moments is exactly why Randy Moss is a Patriot.

Imo, they key player for the Colts is Dallas Clark. Id say Harrison, but since I have a feeling Harrison isnt going to be his usually dangerous self, if he's even able to go, Manning will need to be on fire with his other targets. This game will be a shootout. NE will score alot of points. There's not a doubt in my mind. I dont expect NE to give Manning a ton of complicated looks. Theyll stick to a simple formula. Focus on shutting down the run first. Keep a deep cover over the top on Wayne. And hit Clark off the line, and break his rhythym. To this point, NE has now faced 4 solid TEs. Clark will be #5. Theyve seen Gates, Winslow, Jr., Witten and Cooley. And all had decent days, but werent huge factors. Rodney Harrison is still one of the better strong safeties in the league, so he'll be on Clark quite a bit. But Colvin and Thomas will also be called on to cover him as well. NE limiting Clark in this game would sink Indy. He's a big 3rd down target, and is as versatile as any TE in the game. Clark running loose in the secondary is NE's worst nightmare. Joseph Addai will need to have a huge day, but with Seymour back, and all of NE's LBs actually healthy this time around, I expect they'll keep him in check. I dont know where all the points are going to come from, but Manning will need to post his usual high-mid 30s to win.

There's obviously much more to look at with this game, but this atleast a start.

 

[twitch]

I'd also be interested in hearing Patriot fans opinions about what went wrong in the 2nd half of last year's AFC championship game with their defense, and why that will be different this time, especially the difference Adalius Thomas brings to the table...

they were just missing too many bodies. Here are the guys that didnt play in the 2nd half of that game. SeymourColvinSeauHarrisonWilsonDillon(Colvin played the 1st series, got hurt, and never returned.)Maroney (had a couple of carries, but was hurt and worthless)They didnt have these guys-MossWelkerStallworthThomasThis is an entirely different team that played in the 2nd half of that game last year. The Colts have no idea what's about to hit them.

 

[timschochet]

Itll be interesting how they play Sanders because I think the very reason NE brought in Randy Moss was to beat Bob Sanders. Sanders' only possible weakness would be in covering Moss downfield, and at 6'4, I think he's gonna have his way against a safety that's 5'8. Moss of course isnt just any receiver. He's not Reche Caldwell. He's not Jabar Gaffney or Troy Brown. NE's going to come out looking to hit the homerun early with Moss or Stallworth, in hopes of keeping Sanders deep. They'll play just the opposite of how they worked Washington, which was to use the run to set up the pass. Here, they'll use the deep early bombs to set up the run. They'll need to keep those safteties, specifically Sanders, as far back as possible in their cover 2 deep, and bring a healthy diet of Maroney. The way NE's Oline has been playing, they'll have their way upfront. They'll have Kyle Brady putting a big body on a LB, and attack that small Colts' front 7 in every direction. But when they decide to hit deep over the top, I think they'll be successful. Again, this game, against this team, these big moments is exactly why Randy Moss is a Patriot. Imo, they key player for the Colts is Dallas Clark. Id say Harrison, but since I have a feeling Harrison isnt going to be his usually dangerous self, if he's even able to go, Manning will need to be on fire with his other targets. This game will be a shootout. NE will score alot of points. There's not a doubt in my mind. I dont expect NE to give Manning a ton of complicated looks. Theyll stick to a simple formula. Focus on shutting down the run first. Keep a deep cover over the top on Wayne. And hit Clark off the line, and break his rhythym. To this point, NE has now faced 4 solid TEs. Clark will be #5. Theyve seen Gates, Winslow, Jr., Witten and Cooley. And all had decent days, but werent huge factors. Rodney Harrison is still one of the better strong safeties in the league, so he'll be on Clark quite a bit. But Colvin and Thomas will also be called on to cover him as well. NE limiting Clark in this game would sink Indy. He's a big 3rd down target, and is as versatile as any TE in the game. Clark running loose in the secondary is NE's worst nightmare. Joseph Addai will need to have a huge day, but with Seymour back, and all of NE's LBs actually healthy this time around, I expect they'll keep him in check. I dont know where all the points are going to come from, but Manning will need to post his usual high-mid 30s to win. There's obviously much more to look at with this game, but this atleast a start.

Excellent analysis. I didn't realize that Moss was brought in specifically for the Colts, but it makes sense. Do you think the Colts will double team Moss continually?

 

[patrickmcgroin]

This game will be awesome.

 

[twitch]

Itll be interesting how they play Sanders because I think the very reason NE brought in Randy Moss was to beat Bob Sanders. Sanders' only possible weakness would be in covering Moss downfield, and at 6'4, I think he's gonna have his way against a safety that's 5'8. Moss of course isnt just any receiver. He's not Reche Caldwell. He's not Jabar Gaffney or Troy Brown. NE's going to come out looking to hit the homerun early with Moss or Stallworth, in hopes of keeping Sanders deep. They'll play just the opposite of how they worked Washington, which was to use the run to set up the pass. Here, they'll use the deep early bombs to set up the run. They'll need to keep those safteties, specifically Sanders, as far back as possible in their cover 2 deep, and bring a healthy diet of Maroney. The way NE's Oline has been playing, they'll have their way upfront. They'll have Kyle Brady putting a big body on a LB, and attack that small Colts' front 7 in every direction. But when they decide to hit deep over the top, I think they'll be successful. Again, this game, against this team, these big moments is exactly why Randy Moss is a Patriot. Imo, they key player for the Colts is Dallas Clark. Id say Harrison, but since I have a feeling Harrison isnt going to be his usually dangerous self, if he's even able to go, Manning will need to be on fire with his other targets. This game will be a shootout. NE will score alot of points. There's not a doubt in my mind. I dont expect NE to give Manning a ton of complicated looks. Theyll stick to a simple formula. Focus on shutting down the run first. Keep a deep cover over the top on Wayne. And hit Clark off the line, and break his rhythym. To this point, NE has now faced 4 solid TEs. Clark will be #5. Theyve seen Gates, Winslow, Jr., Witten and Cooley. And all had decent days, but werent huge factors. Rodney Harrison is still one of the better strong safeties in the league, so he'll be on Clark quite a bit. But Colvin and Thomas will also be called on to cover him as well. NE limiting Clark in this game would sink Indy. He's a big 3rd down target, and is as versatile as any TE in the game. Clark running loose in the secondary is NE's worst nightmare. Joseph Addai will need to have a huge day, but with Seymour back, and all of NE's LBs actually healthy this time around, I expect they'll keep him in check. I dont know where all the points are going to come from, but Manning will need to post his usual high-mid 30s to win. There's obviously much more to look at with this game, but this atleast a start.

Excellent analysis. I didn't realize that Moss was brought in specifically for the Colts, but it makes sense. Do you think the Colts will double team Moss continually?

I would assume so. It would defy logic not to. Although, we know Randy Moss takes a friggin' shower in double coverage. The really interesting part of this matchup with Sanders is the size differential. And the turf. You know Moss is huge. And he loves turf. Moss is coming off a quiet game. NE doesnt feature him every game. Sean Taylor at FS for the 'Skins is 6'3. More of a physical match for Moss. They went deep to Moss once against the 'Skins. he was tripped up by Taylor. It wasnt a good matchup, so they didnt go to it much. They hit Moss later on a deep sideline route, but Im not considering that a 'deep' route. I have a feeling we'll see some fireworks from him in this one. The Welker matchup is becoming the key matchup for opposing defenses. Its been the one matchup thats been consistenly been altering defensive plans. You cant cover that guy with a LB. Not even the Colts' quick backers are staying with him. So do you keep a safety on him. And what about Watson if he comes back? Stallworth isnt exactly a slug. Man, this is going to be good. But as far as Moss being brought in specifically for this team, that's just my personal take of course. But Indy is the measuring stick, and the roadblock, so Id think naturally conquering this matchup is a huge reason NE brought him in. But of course, not the only reason.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Last year the Pats couldnt cover Dallas Clark or Bryan Fletcher. I think the whole reason the Pats moved Adalius Thomas to ILB was to cover TE's. If the Pats can keep their safeties healthy, a rotation of Harrison, Sanders and Wilson will go a long way to keeping the INDY TE's under wraps.

 

[Billy1x]

Its going to be a slaughter. The Pats are going to put up 52+ points and the Colts will be lucky to get about 30.

 

[timschochet]

Its going to be a slaughter. The Pats are going to put up 52+ points and the Colts will be lucky to get about 30.

To avoid this being yet another thread where everyone attacks and insults each other, please back this comment up. What makes you believe the Pats will paste 52+ points on Indy, and "slaughter" them?

 

[timschochet]

well, I tried- in the hour I've had this post up, attempting to discuss serious issues, there's been 12 postings- 4 of them have been mine! Meanwhile, the "Running up the score" threads have garnered over 50 postings in the same hour, and it's just the same insults being thrown at each other, over and over.

Everyone can talk about how they would like more thoughtful threads around here, but look what the mass of people are really interested in- not serious discussion, anyhow!

 

[twitch]

Its going to be a slaughter. The Pats are going to put up 52+ points and the Colts will be lucky to get about 30.

To avoid this being yet another thread where everyone attacks and insults each other, please back this comment up. What makes you believe the Pats will paste 52+ points on Indy, and "slaughter" them?

Im not going to fully board the 'slaughter' bandwagon, but I expect this to be a fast, paced, rythymic game with a lot of big strike downfield plays, probably from both sides. But, New England is going to score about 14 of their points in about 14 seconds.

 

[tietzjd]

Would it not make more sense for IND pound the ball on ground say 40 times ? Best Def vs pat's would be to Contorol the clock...

 

[twitch]

Would it not make more sense for IND pound the ball on ground say 40 times ? Best Def vs pat's would be to Contorol the clock...

Thats what everyone playing NE this year has wanted to do. We'll have to see if theyre able to maintain that approach. NE's front 7 this year is without a doubt its strength. Id look for alot more of the short passing attack. Im sure Manning will try and swing atleast 8 passes to Addai.

 

[timschochet]

Would it not make more sense for IND pound the ball on ground say 40 times ? Best Def vs pat's would be to Contorol the clock...

I'm betting that's their strategy going in, or at least a balanced attack that features Addai. But every other team that has faced NE has been behind so early and by so much, the running game has gone out the window by the 2nd qtr- so in order for this to work, Indy has to somehow take the lead and keep it or at least keep things close

 

[eom]

they were just missing too many bodies. Here are the guys that didnt play in the 2nd half of that game. SeymourColvinSeauHarrisonWilsonDillon(Colvin played the 1st series, got hurt, and never returned.)Maroney (had a couple of carries, but was hurt and worthless)They didnt have these guys-MossWelkerStallworthThomas

yeah, if you look at the first half you can see that the pats did a pretty awesome job at dismantling the colts, but the problem w/their d in the 2nd half, besides all the injuries mentioned here, was their offense.the pats had mediocre receivers, a crippled running game, and just could not string together any kind of drive, which is normally their signature.their offense came off the field pretty quick, and their defense was just gassed and overmatched.all that said, the colts still barely managed to eke it out late.welker alone wins that game for us.we got our studs back healthy, welker is here to keep the drives alive, and a few other players are gravy.what you saw in the first half last year is what you should see in both halves this year.

 

[timschochet]

they were just missing too many bodies. Here are the guys that didnt play in the 2nd half of that game. SeymourColvinSeauHarrisonWilsonDillon(Colvin played the 1st series, got hurt, and never returned.)Maroney (had a couple of carries, but was hurt and worthless)They didnt have these guys-MossWelkerStallworthThomas

yeah, if you look at the first half you can see that the pats did a pretty awesome job at dismantling the colts, but the problem w/their d in the 2nd half, besides all the injuries mentioned here, was their offense.the pats had mediocre receivers, a crippled running game, and just could not string together any kind of drive, which is normally their signature.their offense came off the field pretty quick, and their defense was just gassed and overmatched.all that said, the colts still barely managed to eke it out late.welker alone wins that game for us.we got our studs back healthy, welker is here to keep the drives alive, and a few other players are gravy.what you saw in the first half last year is what you should see in both halves this year.

As I recall the Pats were up 21-3 before Indy started their comeback. So you think the Pats will win, something like, 42-6?

 

[timschochet]

All of the threads explaing why and how the Pats will win are excellent, and I have trouble objectively disagreeing with any of them. New England is just an awesome, awesome team this year. But, if only for the sake of argument, is there anyone with a reasonable plan for how Indy wins this game at home?

 

[twitch]

they were just missing too many bodies. Here are the guys that didnt play in the 2nd half of that game. SeymourColvinSeauHarrisonWilsonDillon(Colvin played the 1st series, got hurt, and never returned.)Maroney (had a couple of carries, but was hurt and worthless)They didnt have these guys-MossWelkerStallworthThomas

yeah, if you look at the first half you can see that the pats did a pretty awesome job at dismantling the colts, but the problem w/their d in the 2nd half, besides all the injuries mentioned here, was their offense.the pats had mediocre receivers, a crippled running game, and just could not string together any kind of drive, which is normally their signature.their offense came off the field pretty quick, and their defense was just gassed and overmatched.all that said, the colts still barely managed to eke it out late.welker alone wins that game for us.we got our studs back healthy, welker is here to keep the drives alive, and a few other players are gravy.what you saw in the first half last year is what you should see in both halves this year.

As I recall the Pats were up 21-3 before Indy started their comeback. So you think the Pats will win, something like, 42-6?

No. But, New England '07 beats New England '06 - 2nd half of the Indy game, 42-6. If Manning's going to throw the ball away like he did in the 1st half last year, they'll be in for a long day.

 

[MrJimmy]

Itll be interesting how they play Sanders because I think the very reason NE brought in Randy Moss was to beat Bob Sanders.

I believe teams bring in players to deal with a single opposing player in baseball- lefty specialists, for instance. In baseball, teams can play each other over 20 times per year, including playoffs, so it makes some sense. But I always doubted this in football.BB was asked this specifically last night on radio and he didn't give the idea any merit. He said it's usually only one, maybe two games, you never know what's going to happen over the course of a season- and too many new players join a team months removed from the start of the season. Systems get tweaked, injuries happen, blah, blah. He said the perception comes from a team addressing a weakness. For instance, NE had some weak WRs last year, so they tried to improve that position. Coincidentally, this makes Indy's matchup much more difficult his year. I think the Sanders matchup specifically was only a small reinforcing reason to add Moss and Stallworth and Welker.

 

[MrJimmy]

All of the threads explaing why and how the Pats will win are excellent, and I have trouble objectively disagreeing with any of them. New England is just an awesome, awesome team this year. But, if only for the sake of argument, is there anyone with a reasonable plan for how Indy wins this game at home?

Indy can definitely win by scoring TDs on long drives-7-8 minutes. If they can do this a few times and force a NE TO or two, they can and will win. But they have to dominate ToP. If they don't, NE can even survive 2-3 TOs.

 

[twitch]

Itll be interesting how they play Sanders because I think the very reason NE brought in Randy Moss was to beat Bob Sanders.

I believe teams bring in players to deal with a single opposing player in baseball- lefty specialists, for instance. In baseball, teams can play each other over 20 times per year, including playoffs, so it makes some sense. But I always doubted this in football.BB was asked this specifically last night on radio and he didn't give the idea any merit. He said it's usually only one, maybe two games, you never know what's going to happen over the course of a season- and too many new players join a team months removed from the start of the season. Systems get tweaked, injuries happen, blah, blah. He said the perception comes from a team addressing a weakness. For instance, NE had some weak WRs last year, so they tried to improve that position. Coincidentally, this makes Indy's matchup much more difficult his year. I think the Sanders matchup specifically was only a small reinforcing reason to add Moss and Stallworth and Welker.

so true. I was being a bit melodramatic. I mean it IS the week of the big game. But my point was really that Moss was acquired to specifically conquer this team. About that, there isnt a doubt in my mind.

 

[twitch]

All of the threads explaing why and how the Pats will win are excellent, and I have trouble objectively disagreeing with any of them. New England is just an awesome, awesome team this year. But, if only for the sake of argument, is there anyone with a reasonable plan for how Indy wins this game at home?

Indy can definitely win by scoring TDs on long drives-7-8 minutes. If they can do this a few times and force a NE TO or two, they can and will win. But they have to dominate ToP. If they don't, NE can even survive 2-3 TOs.

on point take.

 

[zoonation]

Would it not make more sense for IND pound the ball on ground say 40 times ? Best Def vs pat's would be to Contorol the clock...

I'm betting that's their strategy going in, or at least a balanced attack that features Addai. But every other team that has faced NE has been behind so early and by so much, the running game has gone out the window by the 2nd qtr- so in order for this to work, Indy has to somehow take the lead and keep it or at least keep things close

this is a good point although I wold add that teams that get behind the Pats early shouldn't abandon the run. Even if they are down 10-14 anytime before the 4th quarter. In orde to win I believe theyhave to dominate TOP because NE is going to score on 80% of their drives, at least. The key for the Colts will be to control the clock...if they don't the Pats will hang 40+ on them because the offense is that good.Edit to add that it looks like the TOP discussion happened just below your post, but I think it is the biggest ke to a possible Indy victory. Having said that...NE - 41 Indy - 31

 

[eom]

indy can win by just playing their game because they're awesome on both sides of the ball -- it's not like we're playing the 'skins or some other worthless team.

anyway, to illustrate my point from above about the d staying on the field, here's the second half:

indy opens w/a 7 minute 76 yard td drive

ne goes 3 and out, holding the ball for a minute:

1-10-NE 18 (8:09) T.Brady pass incomplete short right to R.Caldwell.

2-10-NE 18 (8:04) K.Faulk up the middle to NE 26 for 8 yards (R.Mathis).

3-2-NE 26 (7:23) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to H.Evans pushed ob at NE 26 for no gain (A.Bethea, J.David).

4-2-NE 26 (7:04) T.Sauerbrun punts 58 yards to IND 16, Center-L.Paxton. T.Wilkins to IND 24 for 8 yards (P.Woods).

indy drives 76 yards again in 3 minutes to score including a big run, a big pass play, and a big def interference call

ne gets the ball back on indy's 20 and scores in only 5 plays thx to an 80 yd hobbs run back

this is about it for the 3rd quarter, so the ne offense has been on the field for 8 plays + 1 punt so far.

our d is on the field about 11 minutes that quarter.

indy's next drive covers 67 yds in 3 min for another td

ne just can't stop their run and can't pressure manning at this point.

pats o takes the field for another minute going 3 and out again

1-10-NE 27 (13:18) T.Brady pass short right to B.Watson to NE 31 for 4 yards (G.Brackett).

2-6-NE 31 (12:41) L.Maroney up the middle to NE 29 for -2 yards (D.Freeney).

3-8-NE 29 (12:01) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short right to L.Maroney to NE 35 for 6 yards (R.Brock, R.Mathis). IND-B.Sanders was injured during the play.

4-2-NE 35 (11:19) T.Sauerbrun punts 59 yards to IND 6, Center-L.Paxton. T.Wilkins to IND 22 for 16 yards (P.Woods, D.Graham).

indy held to a 3 and out --- d gets it done on vrabel's sack

pats run 6 plays over 2 and a half min but stall out, settling for field goal

the stall

1-15-IND 18 (8:38) T.Brady pass incomplete short right to R.Caldwell [G.Brackett].

2-15-IND 18 (8:34) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short middle to H.Evans to IND 10 for 8 yards (R.Morris, C.June).

3-7-IND 10 (7:50) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete short right to R.Caldwell.

indy opens w/a 52 yd pass to clark, who burns us for 137 that game

d holds them to 3 more plays and a field goal on another quickie 2 min drive

the pats hold the ball for 2 min, running 4 plays and settling for another field goal before coming off the field

1-10-NE 46 (5:23) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass deep right to D.Graham to IND 29 for 25 yards (G.Brackett).

1-10-IND 29 (4:39) T.Brady pass incomplete deep right to J.Gaffney.

2-10-IND 29 (4:33) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete short right to D.Graham (A.Bethea).

3-10-IND 29 (4:29) (Shotgun) H.Evans right tackle to IND 25 for 4 yards (G.Brackett).

4-6-IND 25 (3:53) S.Gostkowski 43 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-L.Paxton, Holder-M.Cassel.

our d holds manning to 3 and out, but the pats then go 3 and out as well

1-10-NE 40 (3:22) PENALTY on NE-H.Evans, Offensive 12 On-field, 5 yards, enforced at NE 40 - No Play.

1-15-NE 35 (3:22) T.Brady pass short right to R.Caldwell to NE 42 for 7 yards (M.Jackson).

2-8-NE 42 (2:39) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to B.Watson to NE 46 for 4 yards (A.Bethea, J.David).

Timeout #2 by IND at 02:30.

3-4-NE 46 (2:30) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete short right to T.Brown (B.Sanders).

4-4-NE 46 (2:27) T.Sauerbrun punts 54 yards to end zone, Center-L.Paxton, Touchback.

manning drives 80 yds for a td, including burning us for another big pass play

needing a td, pats get the ball back on their 20 w/a minute to play

brady throws the pick at midfield w/24 seconds on clock to end it

4th quarter was back and forth, but the pats d just could not keep up, and pats o just could not put any kind of drive together to score a td instead of fg or punt, and more importantly to keep manning off the field.

I was more psyched when I heard the welker deal than anything else (except maybe adalius).

caldwell - 5/46

gaffney - 3/37/1 td

brown - 2/32

 

[crd3726]

How about the match-up between the Rookie Tony Ugoh and the pats outside linebackers. After seeing what Vrabel did last week the Colts are going to have to use a TE or RB to help chip either Colvin or Vrabel Just another match up for BB to exploit.

 

[twitch]

How about the match-up between the Rookie Tony Ugoh and the pats outside linebackers. After seeing what Vrabel did last week the Colts are going to have to use a TE or RB to help chip either Colvin or Vrabel Just another match up for BB to exploit.

Ugoh didnt play last game, and Im not sure what his status will be next week, but I think he's got a bad foot right now. And Richard Seymour is back, and will be lining up right over who ever the Colts have at LT. Huge edge to Seymour over there no matter who fills the spot. NE's front 3 is going to keep that Oline busy, that's for sure.

 

[theJCdude]

I think they will use BOB to help double Moss or Blitz. But in the end, it will not matter because Brady will go underneath to Welker, and then we they try to stop that, they'll hit MOSS. And then it will be over. I think I might be one of the few that believe this isn't going to be much of a game in the second half. Manning hasn't seen a D like this, they will be coming after him all day, and the front four will be all it takens to do it! Leaving Samuels and Hobbs to have a field day!

Everyone has tried to double MOSS, and it doesn't work. The only way to beat the PATs is to Blitz, Blitz, Blitz, and then Blitz some more. Brady with time= Losing big. Brady with not as much time= Might not lose by much.

Either way, All PATs in this one!

Okay bring on the haters...

 

[eom]

I think they're optimistic that ugoh will play, but I'm sure all those guys want to get in there for this one.

10/30

• Injury list — Dungy hopes that wide receiver Marvin Harrison, weak side linebacker Freddy Keiaho, cornerback Marlin Jackson, offensive tackle Tony Ugoh and safety Matt Giordano (hamstring) will be cleared to play this week.

Harrison (knee) did not play at Carolina. His availability for this week’s home game with New England won’t be determined until later this week. Keiaho (concussion) remains hopeful of being able to play against the Patriots this week. Keiaho initially suffered a concussion against Denver and did not play against Tampa Bay. He returned to start the Jacksonville game but was dinged up in practice late last week.

Ugoh (shoulder) sat out against the Panthers, with second-year offensive tackle Charlie Johnson stepping in to start. Jackson (neck) suffered a sprained neck in the third quarter of the Carolina game. Jackson wanted to reenter the game but was told to sit out the remainder of the day as a precaution. He hopes to be able to play against New England.

Giordano was hurt against Jacksonville last week and did not play against the Panthers on Sunday.

n Big games for Brackett, Hagler — Tyjuan Hagler has started at both strong side and weak side linebacker for the Colts this season. Hagler had 15 total tackles against Carolina filling in for Keiaho at weak side linebacker.

 

[eom]

now that I think about it, 'the pats' maybe be the most appropriate nick in the history of sports.

 

[timschochet]

I think they will use BOB to help double Moss or Blitz. But in the end, it will not matter because Brady will go underneath to Welker, and then we they try to stop that, they'll hit MOSS. And then it will be over. I think I might be one of the few that believe this isn't going to be much of a game in the second half. Manning hasn't seen a D like this, they will be coming after him all day, and the front four will be all it takens to do it! Leaving Samuels and Hobbs to have a field day!Everyone has tried to double MOSS, and it doesn't work. The only way to beat the PATs is to Blitz, Blitz, Blitz, and then Blitz some more. Brady with time= Losing big. Brady with not as much time= Might not lose by much.Either way, All PATs in this one!Okay bring on the haters...

Question- based on this analysis, do you believe the Steelers actually provide more difficulties matchup wise for the Patriots than the Colts do? Like the Colts, they have a balanced offensive attack, and they blitz more effectively than probably any team in football. (Outside of NE, that is)

 

[timschochet]

eom, I have to say that your analysis of the NE WR's from last year to this, though biased, was excellent and simply hard to argue against. I think that some credit should be given to the Indy secondary for shutting down Brady in the 2nd half last year, it wasn't all the lack of talent at WR.

I also think that those who are predicting a blowout (and only a few are- most contributers at least to this thread predict a comfortable Pats win in the 10-14 pt range, NOT a blowout) are ignoring the Indy offense. New England's D is terrific, but the two GOOD offenses they have faced (Dallas and Cleveland- still can't believe I wrote that, but it's true) were able to move the ball on NE, especially Dallas. Indy has a GREAT offense, and you have to figure they put up plenty of points. Enough to keep up? That is the question...

But I don't think it will be a blowout...

 

[eom]

the steelers have a more aggressive d and bring more pressure while still stopping the run --- I'm sure their d is usually tougher on everybody.

but they just aren't as good as the pats.

 

[timschochet]

the steelers have a more aggressive d and bring more pressure while still stopping the run --- I'm sure their d is usually tougher on everybody.but they just aren't as good as the pats.

I agree. The question was, though, do the Steelers provide a more difficult matchup for the Pats than the Colts do?

 

[twitch]

I think they're optimistic that ugoh will play, but I'm sure all those guys want to get in there for this one.

10/30

• Injury list — Dungy hopes that wide receiver Marvin Harrison, weak side linebacker Freddy Keiaho, cornerback Marlin Jackson, offensive tackle Tony Ugoh and safety Matt Giordano (hamstring) will be cleared to play this week.

Harrison (knee) did not play at Carolina. His availability for this week’s home game with New England won’t be determined until later this week. Keiaho (concussion) remains hopeful of being able to play against the Patriots this week. Keiaho initially suffered a concussion against Denver and did not play against Tampa Bay. He returned to start the Jacksonville game but was dinged up in practice late last week.

Ugoh (shoulder) sat out against the Panthers, with second-year offensive tackle Charlie Johnson stepping in to start. Jackson (neck) suffered a sprained neck in the third quarter of the Carolina game. Jackson wanted to reenter the game but was told to sit out the remainder of the day as a precaution. He hopes to be able to play against New England.

Giordano was hurt against Jacksonville last week and did not play against the Panthers on Sunday.

n Big games for Brackett, Hagler — Tyjuan Hagler has started at both strong side and weak side linebacker for the Colts this season. Hagler had 15 total tackles against Carolina filling in for Keiaho at weak side linebacker.

wow. that's alot of banged up Colts.

 

[eom]

eom, I have to say that your analysis of the NE WR's from last year to this, though biased, was excellent and simply hard to argue against. I think that some credit should be given to the Indy secondary for shutting down Brady in the 2nd half last year, it wasn't all the lack of talent at WR. I also think that those who are predicting a blowout (and only a few are- most contributers at least to this thread predict a comfortable Pats win in the 10-14 pt range, NOT a blowout) are ignoring the Indy offense. New England's D is terrific, but the two GOOD offenses they have faced (Dallas and Cleveland- still can't believe I wrote that, but it's true) were able to move the ball on NE, especially Dallas. Indy has a GREAT offense, and you have to figure they put up plenty of points. Enough to keep up? That is the question...But I don't think it will be a blowout...

I give indy's players a lot of credit for stopping the pats --- see my above comment that they are awesome on both sides of the ball, but stopping gaffney, caldwell, and brown is easier than the crew they'll be up against this year w/o question by even the most rabid pats hating nitwit.some of those caldwell incompletions were just flat out drops, if I remember right.indy does have a great offense, but if they aren't on the field they aren't going to move the ball.see my sig.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I do not see the Colts using Sanders as a pass rusher that much. To beat the Patriots, you have got to get pressure with your front four. If you bring too many players up to blitz or apply pressure, Brady will easily find the open receiver and then it is off to the races. Harrison has got to play for the Colts, if they are going to win. I see the Colts throwing a lot of short passes and running the ball a lot, to try and eat the clock away, thus keeping the Pats offense off the field. Problem is, it is hard to nickel and dime it down the field against NE without making a mistake at some point, but then again, these are the Colts. And the Patriots run defense hasn't been that good, either.

Its going to be a slaughter. The Pats are going to put up 52+ points and the Colts will be lucky to get about 30.

That is quite a contribution to a thread about strategy.

 

[twitch]

the steelers have a more aggressive d and bring more pressure while still stopping the run --- I'm sure their d is usually tougher on everybody.but they just aren't as good as the pats.

I agree. The question was, though, do the Steelers provide a more difficult matchup for the Pats than the Colts do?

Personally, T, I think they do. But 3 things. 1- The Colts are at home, so the crowd can play a huge role. 2- The Colts have Manning. 3- Pittsburgh has lost twice on the road. They havent been consistent. But theyre capable. They have the deep threat, the intermediate threats, the TEs, the running game. But if theyre trailing and are forced to throw alot, I question Ben getting it done. And playing in NE gives the home team a huge edge.

 

[zoonation]

this is the bst thread on the board right now.

 

[timschochet]

Or put it this way, Pats fans: Given that your team is the best in football this year, if things stay true to form, your first playoff game will be at home against SD. Meanwhile the Steelers will play at the Colts, and you will then most likely get the AFC Championship game at home against the Colts.

Is that what you want? Or would you prefer an upset in the other game, and then you would play Pittsburgh at home? Or do you worry about a resurgent Chargers, and would prefer them to beat out the Steelers record wise, so that you have Pittsburgh first and then the winner of SD-Indy? What would provide the easiest route for NE to the SB?

 

[eom]

a lot of banged up colts

wow. that's alot of banged up Colts.

yeah, it's really a shame about that -- I didn't want a rematch w/a crippled indy team.hopefully, both sides will be healthy at the end of the year and they'll do it again.

 

[Ghost Rider]

the steelers have a more aggressive d and bring more pressure while still stopping the run --- I'm sure their d is usually tougher on everybody.but they just aren't as good as the pats.

I agree. The question was, though, do the Steelers provide a more difficult matchup for the Pats than the Colts do?

Absolutely not.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Or put it this way, Pats fans: Given that your team is the best in football this year, if things stay true to form, your first playoff game will be at home against SD. Meanwhile the Steelers will play at the Colts, and you will then most likely get the AFC Championship game at home against the Colts.Is that what you want? Or would you prefer an upset in the other game, and then you would play Pittsburgh at home? Or do you worry about a resurgent Chargers, and would prefer them to beat out the Steelers record wise, so that you have Pittsburgh first and then the winner of SD-Indy? What would provide the easiest route for NE to the SB?

True to form? The Chargers aren't even leading the AFC West right now. The Chiefs are. They have the same record, and KC has already won at SD, so how are the Chargers all of a sudden given the 4 seed? Just curious.And why is NE the 1 seed and Indy 2? If things stayed true to form, given that the Colts have won three in a row vs. NE, Indy would get the 1 seed, right?

 

[timschochet]

the steelers have a more aggressive d and bring more pressure while still stopping the run --- I'm sure their d is usually tougher on everybody.but they just aren't as good as the pats.

I agree. The question was, though, do the Steelers provide a more difficult matchup for the Pats than the Colts do?

Personally, T, I think they do. But 3 things. 1- The Colts are at home, so the crowd can play a huge role. 2- The Colts have Manning. 3- Pittsburgh has lost twice on the road. They havent been consistent. But theyre capable. They have the deep threat, the intermediate threats, the TEs, the running game. But if theyre trailing and are forced to throw alot, I question Ben getting it done. And playing in NE gives the home team a huge edge.

I agree with all of this (unfortunately, since I am a Steeler fan). I would point out that their two losses on the road came out west. They have played very well on the road in the state of Ohio, if that means anything.Actually, as I look at NE's schedule, if they win this game, the team that I think has the best shot of keeping them from going 16-0 is... the Giants! Good NFC team, maybe fighting for the Bye, at home on the last game of the year. If NE is 15-0, they will have locked up home field by having all tie breakers, so they'd only be playing for the undefeated mantra. That's where the loss could happen.Didn't mean to get so off topic, though.

 

[eom]

resurgent Chargers,

dude, you are pissing on a perfectly good thread.anyway, to answer your question, I'm not the one getting hit or doing the hitting but I'm not looking for the easiest way, and I doubt the pats care much, either.as far as I'm concerned, every team outside the colts is equally easy, and even they might not be so tough.personally, I think another pats/indy championship would be cool, though.san diego would be a friggin' disgrace to the nfl.

 

[twitch]

eom, I have to say that your analysis of the NE WR's from last year to this, though biased, was excellent and simply hard to argue against. I think that some credit should be given to the Indy secondary for shutting down Brady in the 2nd half last year, it wasn't all the lack of talent at WR.

I also think that those who are predicting a blowout (and only a few are- most contributers at least to this thread predict a comfortable Pats win in the 10-14 pt range, NOT a blowout) are ignoring the Indy offense. New England's D is terrific, but the two GOOD offenses they have faced (Dallas and Cleveland- still can't believe I wrote that, but it's true) were able to move the ball on NE, especially Dallas. Indy has a GREAT offense, and you have to figure they put up plenty of points. Enough to keep up? That is the question...

But I don't think it will be a blowout...

Here are the top 6 Offenses in the league by yardage and points/game - 1- New England 439.5 41.4

2- Dallas 402 32.4

3- Indy 399 32

4- Pittsburgh 361.1 26.3

5- Cinci 360.9 25.3

6-Cleveland 356.4 27.7

Now, people can say what they want about New England's schedule, but theyve already faced 3 of the teams on this list. And theyre scheduled to play the other 2. So, theyll have played atleast 5 of the top Os in the league by season's end. And they still have the league's 3rd ranked defense. I dont think Indy has yet faced any of the teams on this list. Right now, their D is ranked 4th. That's about to change.

 

[timschochet]

Or put it this way, Pats fans: Given that your team is the best in football this year, if things stay true to form, your first playoff game will be at home against SD. Meanwhile the Steelers will play at the Colts, and you will then most likely get the AFC Championship game at home against the Colts.Is that what you want? Or would you prefer an upset in the other game, and then you would play Pittsburgh at home? Or do you worry about a resurgent Chargers, and would prefer them to beat out the Steelers record wise, so that you have Pittsburgh first and then the winner of SD-Indy? What would provide the easiest route for NE to the SB?

True to form? The Chargers aren't even leading the AFC West right now. The Chiefs are. They have the same record, and KC has already won at SD, so how are the Chargers all of a sudden given the 4 seed? Just curious.And why is NE the 1 seed and Indy 2? If things stayed true to form, given that the Colts have won three in a row vs. NE, Indy would get the 1 seed, right?

Again, don't mean to get too much off topic, but anyone who is watching SD right now realizes they are a much better team than KC, and that KC's lead is very temporary... I doubt KC will even make the playoffs (Jacksonville and Tennessee are my picks)