Tebow not an Elway kind of guy (1 Viewer)

[identikit]

I'll go with Cecil's take on this one.

A lot of smokescreens out there this time of year.

 

[No Problem]

I will start by saying I am a Florida State grad so I have no love for Tebow but my critisicism is based on his skill set not the fact he was a Gator and kicked our butts for years

IMO the days of quartebacks running the football on a consistant basis in the NFL are over. Players are bigger faster and stronger on average and there is no way a modern quarterback can carry the ball 125-150 times and stay healthy (watch Vick this year, by the way sell him high while you can)

A franchise QB is aided by the fact he can create and move from pocket as last resort but he needs to be able to stand tall in the pocket, go through his reads and deliver the football accurately. Tebow needs a lot of work in many of these areas and I would not want him running my offense at this point of his career.

 

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

There's just so much going on here... lets take a big picture approach. Consider the following-

Elway does not want to coach. His coaches and advisors, hell even just looking at game tape will tell him that it's highly unlikely that drafting any QB in the draft will give him a better chance to win games *right now, near future* than with Kyle Orton. Whether you like to admit it or not, Orton is an above average starter in the league (top 1/2 of all QBs) and a decent game manager. We know what he is, we know what he isn't. He's not Brady/Manning/Brees/Rodgers. But from what we know, there's no "lock" franchise QBs in this draft. Gabbert and Newton are hyped, and are admittedly high risk/high reward gambles for the money they will command. One thing is for certain, even if Gabbert/Newton ended up in Mile High, they'd have to learn a system, and go through growing pains, learn the personnel, all of which Orton has already done and had a measured level of success. Tebow also is a year deep into this process. We know Orton isn't Manning, but neither was Jake Delhomme, which brings me to my next point-

John Fox is the new HC. Jake Delhomme was an above average starter throughout the early 2000's in Carolina. Fox rode him to a Superbowl appearance, along with a grinding running attack and a Steve Smith in his prime. I will grant to you that Smith, in his prime is better than any single current Bronco's WR. But I think the Bronco's receiving corps as a whole, now, are better than the Panthers WRs of the early 2000's. Royal can make plays, Gaffney is decent when he gets touches, and Lloyd has not quite the game breaking ability of a steve smith in his prime, but he's "broken out" now. It's not out of the question that he has similar numbers next year. It's possible. In order for this to happen, they'll need to throw the ball around a lot. This is not typically what John Fox is known for, however let me play devil's advocate for a moment. The past few years in CAR have been years of a conservative, run first offense. It's quite possible that this was done out of necessity, rather than choice, because other than a continuously injured JStew, DeAngelo Williams, and an aging Steve Smith who gets all the saftey attention in the league, because he has no WR2 to take pressure off, the cupboard was bare. Delhomme hasn't been able to play in 3 years. He's just really stunk up the place. It's possible Fox just tried to make it happen with ball control and defense, because those were the team strengths. It's pretty accepted that Jerry Richardson isn't really willing to dump a ton of money into the Panthers. The Bronco's ownership is not afraid to break the bank for top end talent (Champ Bailey). What will Fox do with the pieces in place, and a totally new ownership group/front office? It's not set in stone that he will return to his conservative ways with this team. It's a different situation altogether. What's not different? My next point-

Mike McCoy. He's a John Fox guy, worked with him through Carolina's early 2000's run, and under McD last year. How did he fare last year? In 2010, Orton ranked fourth in the NFL with 281.0 passing yards per game and quarterback Tim Tebow opened Denver’s final three contests, while recording with the highest passer rating (82.1) of the NFL’s eight rookie starting quarterbacks. Tebow's completion % hovered around 50%. This is not uncommon for a rookie at all. Generally when a coach wants to drastically change on offensive system, he replaces the OC. Its very possible that the offensive system does become more balanced, because McDaniels offense is just wildly unbalanced to begin with. But McCoy seems like a pretty good offensive mind, he's had a taste of McD's exotic yet effective offensive silliness, and he's still got the job. I don't see a total return to "ground and pound" in denver. Like I said, a shift is possible, but it still looks like a team ready to throw the football. Tebow played well in his three starts. They were blown out by the Raiders, but Tebow only attempted 16 passes in that game, and they rushed the ball twice as much as they passed. This did not stop Tebow from having a productive day, as he passed and ran for a TD, passed for 138 yards on 16 attempts, and rushed 78 yards on 8 attempts. The other two games were much closer, and Tebow put up similar stat lines, although he passed for more yardage.

Elway knows that 1/3 of the teams in the league are desperate for a QB. He also knows that Orton is a very competent player, and could take a team that's "close" and make them a contender. This *has* to be a smoke screen, because the only thing these comments do is drive Orton's value/asking price up further. Tebow and Orton are not even similar as players, but Tebow has shown that he can play successfully in Mike McCoy's system. He has shown that he has the "intangibles" to get a team behind him. He's kind of the "anti-mallett" in this respect. He may never average 270 yards per game and 2.5 passing TDs, but that's probably not the kind of player he is. His upside is better than that of Orton. He's a dangerous weapon on his feet, something that was stylish, then unstylish, but now stylish again. With an improved defense (Fox's calling card), and either Tebow or Orton behind center this team stands to be better than last year. But I think at this time the conditions are right to sell Orton for a great deal more than he's actually worth, and I think the

front office of the Bronco's realize that.

I think they sell Orton for draft picks. I think they start to add young talent on the defense and on the lines, and pick up a back to compliment injury plagued Moreno. If several teams spend 1st round picks and money on QBs this year, the need for QB will be lessened by next draft, as teams seek to develop their young arms. The picks they sell Orton for this year could wind up turning into Andrew Luck next year in a package, if Tebow shows he can't get it done. Next years crop of QBs is supposedly much more enticing than this years.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

There's just so much going on here... lets take a big picture approach. Consider the following-Elway does not want to coach. His coaches and advisors, hell even just looking at game tape will tell him that it's highly unlikely that drafting any QB in the draft will give him a better chance to win games *right now, near future* than with Kyle Orton. Whether you like to admit it or not, Orton is an above average starter in the league (top 1/2 of all QBs) and a decent game manager. We know what he is, we know what he isn't. He's not Brady/Manning/Brees/Rodgers. But from what we know, there's no "lock" franchise QBs in this draft. Gabbert and Newton are hyped, and are admittedly high risk/high reward gambles for the money they will command. One thing is for certain, even if Gabbert/Newton ended up in Mile High, they'd have to learn a system, and go through growing pains, learn the personnel, all of which Orton has already done and had a measured level of success. Tebow also is a year deep into this process. We know Orton isn't Manning, but neither was Jake Delhomme, which brings me to my next point-John Fox is the new HC. Jake Delhomme was an above average starter throughout the early 2000's in Carolina. Fox rode him to a Superbowl appearance, along with a grinding running attack and a Steve Smith in his prime. I will grant to you that Smith, in his prime is better than any single current Bronco's WR. But I think the Bronco's receiving corps as a whole, now, are better than the Panthers WRs of the early 2000's. Royal can make plays, Gaffney is decent when he gets touches, and Lloyd has not quite the game breaking ability of a steve smith in his prime, but he's "broken out" now. It's not out of the question that he has similar numbers next year. It's possible. In order for this to happen, they'll need to throw the ball around a lot. This is not typically what John Fox is known for, however let me play devil's advocate for a moment. The past few years in CAR have been years of a conservative, run first offense. It's quite possible that this was done out of necessity, rather than choice, because other than a continuously injured JStew, DeAngelo Williams, and an aging Steve Smith who gets all the saftey attention in the league, because he has no WR2 to take pressure off, the cupboard was bare. Delhomme hasn't been able to play in 3 years. He's just really stunk up the place. It's possible Fox just tried to make it happen with ball control and defense, because those were the team strengths. It's pretty accepted that Jerry Richardson isn't really willing to dump a ton of money into the Panthers. The Bronco's ownership is not afraid to break the bank for top end talent (Champ Bailey). What will Fox do with the pieces in place, and a totally new ownership group/front office? It's not set in stone that he will return to his conservative ways with this team. It's a different situation altogether. What's not different? My next point-Mike McCoy. He's a John Fox guy, worked with him through Carolina's early 2000's run, and under McD last year. How did he fare last year? In 2010, Orton ranked fourth in the NFL with 281.0 passing yards per game and quarterback Tim Tebow opened Denver’s final three contests, while recording with the highest passer rating (82.1) of the NFL’s eight rookie starting quarterbacks. Tebow's completion % hovered around 50%. This is not uncommon for a rookie at all. Generally when a coach wants to drastically change on offensive system, he replaces the OC. Its very possible that the offensive system does become more balanced, because McDaniels offense is just wildly unbalanced to begin with. But McCoy seems like a pretty good offensive mind, he's had a taste of McD's exotic yet effective offensive silliness, and he's still got the job. I don't see a total return to "ground and pound" in denver. Like I said, a shift is possible, but it still looks like a team ready to throw the football. Tebow played well in his three starts. They were blown out by the Raiders, but Tebow only attempted 16 passes in that game, and they rushed the ball twice as much as they passed. This did not stop Tebow from having a productive day, as he passed and ran for a TD, passed for 138 yards on 16 attempts, and rushed 78 yards on 8 attempts. The other two games were much closer, and Tebow put up similar stat lines, although he passed for more yardage. Elway knows that 1/3 of the teams in the league are desperate for a QB. He also knows that Orton is a very competent player, and could take a team that's "close" and make them a contender. This *has* to be a smoke screen, because the only thing these comments do is drive Orton's value/asking price up further. Tebow and Orton are not even similar as players, but Tebow has shown that he can play successfully in Mike McCoy's system. He has shown that he has the "intangibles" to get a team behind him. He's kind of the "anti-mallett" in this respect. He may never average 270 yards per game and 2.5 passing TDs, but that's probably not the kind of player he is. His upside is better than that of Orton. He's a dangerous weapon on his feet, something that was stylish, then unstylish, but now stylish again. With an improved defense (Fox's calling card), and either Tebow or Orton behind center this team stands to be better than last year. But I think at this time the conditions are right to sell Orton for a great deal more than he's actually worth, and I think the front office of the Bronco's realize that.I think they sell Orton for draft picks. I think they start to add young talent on the defense and on the lines, and pick up a back to compliment injury plagued Moreno. If several teams spend 1st round picks and money on QBs this year, the need for QB will be lessened by next draft, as teams seek to develop their young arms. The picks they sell Orton for this year could wind up turning into Andrew Luck next year in a package, if Tebow shows he can't get it done. Next years crop of QBs is supposedly much more enticing than this years.

helluva

 

[BusMan]

helluva

I'll double that. If this is the way the Broncos play this, I will be as giddy as I've ever been as a fan. Because the future will be bright and in very capable hands.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

helluva

I'll double that. If this is the way the Broncos play this, I will be as giddy as I've ever been as a fan. Because the future will be bright and in very capable hands.

and the only thing I really disagree with is that if the team that ends up with the number one pick needs a QB.....I don't care how many draft picks Denver has to offer them next year...I don't see a team that needs a QB trading away the rights to draft Luck....

 

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

I suppose, although a lot could happen between then and now. Next years top drafting team may seek veteran help at QB instead of drafting Luck #1. Luck may not be the #1 player in next years draft. There's a lot of possibilities, but one thing I am hearing is that there are quite a few highly regarded QB prospects queued up for next year, Luck looked phenomenal compared to the rest of this years class. He may have a better class around him next year... But thats another thread altogether.

 

[BusMan]

I suppose, although a lot could happen between then and now. Next years top drafting team may seek veteran help at QB instead of drafting Luck #1. Luck may not be the #1 player in next years draft. There's a lot of possibilities, but one thing I am hearing is that there are quite a few highly regarded QB prospects queued up for next year, Luck looked phenomenal compared to the rest of this years class. He may have a better class around him next year... But thats another thread altogether.

I completely agree. Last year, everyone was talking about which team would "win" the #1 pick in the 2011 draft so they could take the slam dunk QB prospect....Jake Locker.Things change.

 

[ffldrew]

A Jeff Legwold article on Ponder in today's Denver Post

IMO the Bronco's are trying real hard to drum up QB fever in the draft to entice a few teams to trade into the #2......like most in here have stated they better take all D in this draft. What would be really cool is trading down and having Fairley fall(ala Sapp) as well to somewhere around 8 or so.

 

[NajehHejan]

Per Rotoworld today. Good news for Tebow owners.

After staying tight-lipped on Tim Tebow's future all offseason, John Elway now says he's "his biggest fan."Elway believes the Broncos are "in pretty darn good shape" if Tebow can become the player the organization hopes he can be. But, Elway told Tebow, "You have to realize for us to be champions, you have to be able to win it from the pocket and make all those throws from the pocket." Elway also hinted that Tebow would open the season as the starter over Kyle Orton as long as the lockout doesn't preclude training camp and a full preseason. Now that Elway is locked in on a defensive player at No. 2, he's through with the QB smokescreens. Apr 28, 12:25 PM

 

[Football Jones]

Liking Tebow was a no-brainer, IMO. You would have to be an idiot not to like what you saw from the rookie QB last season (& Elway is far from an idiot). I'm really high on Tebow's prospects. I honestly don't see how somebody could view it any other way. This kid has EVERYTHING going for him.

 

[metoo]

Liking Tebow was a no-brainer, IMO. You would have to be an idiot not to like what you saw from the rookie QB last season (& Elway is far from an idiot). I'm really high on Tebow's prospects. I honestly don't see how somebody could view it any other way. This kid has EVERYTHING going for him.

I've been picking him up in dynasty leagues for next to nothing.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Multiple sources tell SI.com's Tony Pauline that the Broncos will likely draft a quarterback in the first couple of rounds of this year's draft.

According to the same sources, Tim Tebow is "not the quarterback for John Elway," making the position a priority heading into the draft. Enough anti-Tebow buzz is coming out of Denver that Elway either truly lacks faith in Josh McDaniels' hand-picked QB, or else he wants the teams picking behind him to believe it. Pauline suggests Nevada's Colin Kaepernick at the top of round two as the most likely Elway selection.

http://www.rotoworld...-for-john-elway

More great info.

 

[az_prof]

Liking Tebow was a no-brainer, IMO. You would have to be an idiot not to like what you saw from the rookie QB last season (& Elway is far from an idiot). I'm really high on Tebow's prospects. I honestly don't see how somebody could view it any other way. This kid has EVERYTHING going for him.

I agree. Although note of caution: people were saying the same and more after Vince Young's rookie year.

 

[werdnoynek]

Liking Tebow was a no-brainer, IMO. You would have to be an idiot not to like what you saw from the rookie QB last season (& Elway is far from an idiot). I'm really high on Tebow's prospects. I honestly don't see how somebody could view it any other way. This kid has EVERYTHING going for him.

I agree. Although note of caution: people were saying the same and more after Vince Young's rookie year.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Liking Tebow was a no-brainer, IMO. You would have to be an idiot not to like what you saw from the rookie QB last season (& Elway is far from an idiot). I'm really high on Tebow's prospects. I honestly don't see how somebody could view it any other way. This kid has EVERYTHING going for him.

I agree. Although note of caution: people were saying the same and more after Vince Young's rookie year.

Um, why does that generate an eye roll??

 

[werdnoynek]

Liking Tebow was a no-brainer, IMO. You would have to be an idiot not to like what you saw from the rookie QB last season (& Elway is far from an idiot). I'm really high on Tebow's prospects. I honestly don't see how somebody could view it any other way. This kid has EVERYTHING going for him.

I agree. Although note of caution: people were saying the same and more after Vince Young's rookie year.

Um, why does that generate an eye roll??

work ethic. emotional stability. class. character. maturity. leadership.besides being able to run with the ball, i don't think they're all that similar... if VY had these characteristics, he'd still be starting for the titans and well on his way to a great career. he doesn't and isn't. hence, rolling of the eyes.

 

[flapgreen]

Apparently, neither was the GM. Another one bites the dust, eh John?

 

[cstu]

This simply isn't true. Kaepernick and Tebow have very similar skill sets (weird throwing motion, spread/pistol offense, arm strength, athleticism) but Kaepernick lacks a championship and heisman resume. Both are extremely devout Christians, and both have good leadership skills. Tebow has a better burst running the ball, but Kaepernick has better elusiveness (Tebow likes to bull over people). Kaepernick's stock is just too high at the top of the 2nd, I see him sliding in the draft like Colt McCoy did last year. this whole 'interest in other QBs' is a ruse. The team would like to trade for more draft picks (they're missing a 4th rounder because of the Maroney deal). Trading Orton (when possible) would also take a hit if they came right out and said 'Tebow's the starter.' Between the Combine and the Draft it's difficult to believe much of what you hear or read. Tebow has a ton of support at Dove Valley. As Officer Barbrady would say, 'nothing to see here people!'That being said, the Broncos could take a QB late in the draft because Brady Quinn may not stick around on the roster.

So, you really think Elway wants Tebow as his QB? I don't believe that for a second. I have no problem going along with what you're saying about Kaepernick vs Tebow, but if I'm reading between the lines of what you're saying when you mention possible Orton trade bait and the love Tebow has at Dove Valley, I have to conclude you're a Tebow kind of guy.

@ Cecil as a Tebow guy.On a sidenote - why do you think Elway hates Tebow as his starter?

Because he's not your traditional QB and there's plenty of question marks surrounding his accuracy and pocket presence, all of which make up a franchise QB, not the ability to take off as a RB more often than not. Scrambling is one thing, but looking to run is another. There has been great scramblers that were also great QBs, such as Tarkenton, Staubach, Young, and Elway. I don't see Tebow ever having the ability to do what they already had and that's the ability to throw the ball effectively and consistently.

Looks like he got his traditional QB in Osweiler.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Smokescreen

Good call. Obvious smokescreen to draft a QB the next year.