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Tedy Bruschi: Future Pro Football Hall of Famer? (1 Viewer)

Very curious in the opinions - Tedy Bruschi: Future Pro Football Hall of Famer or not?

  • YES - Bruschi will be an Pro Football Hall of Famer when he retires

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • He might be - he still needs to accomplish more

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • NO - Bruschi will not be an Pro Football Hall of Famer in the future

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

blake

Footballguy
Very curious in the FBG's opinions. I admittedly don't know nearly as much about NFL history as I'd like, and I'd like to be educated a bit by those more knowledgeable on this subject than I.

I started thinking about Bruschi after reading this compelling CBS Sportsline article on Bruschi's full return to the game.

I don't know NFL (or pro football) history enough with which to compare and grade Bruschi, but he seems to be the driving force of the defense of three NFL champions which is awfully impressive.

So, what do ye all think in this great forum?

 
well, in my search for education on this, why isn't he?

i admit, i am a bit surprised with the outcome of the poll (thus far), given his reputation and appearance in pro bowls.

that said, i've not a clue what the heck i'm talking about.

can someone come to my aid?

 
his reputation and appearance in pro bowls.
That's one problem: I'm pretty sure he's only been to one Pro Bowl.I love Bruschi as much as anyone. He's a big game player, he makes the big plays when they count the most, and he is one of the best LBs in the league when he's on his game.

But he's only just recently become a top player in the league (during the Patriots recent run of success), which is too short a time period. He was a role player and a special teamer for much of his career.

If the Patriots win another championship with Bruschi a major part of it, he's got a chance, because of his team's success, staying with one team his whole career, and the recovery from the stroke (not saying these are necessarily legitimate reasons to get into the HOF, but I do think they'll affect the voters).

But as of right now, this Patriots fan does not consider Tedy Bruschi to be a true Hall of Fame player. I think it's within his reach, but the odds are probably against it (though I do believe the Pats will win at least one or two more Super Bowls within the next few years).

 
There was some other thread about draft years and Zach Thomas was brought up to compare with Bruschi since they were drafted the same year. Just a quick look at the stats:

Thomas

1426 tackles, 15.5 sacks, 16 INTs, 4TDs, 14 FFs, and 55 passes defended.

Bruschi

829 tackles, 27 sacks, 11 INTs, 4 TDs, 17 FFs, and 51 passes defended.

Now both of these guys have been on solid defenses for pretty much their career, but Miami, while making the playoffs a few years (average of 9-7 in his 10 years, including the 4-12 2004) just doesn't have the 3 Super Bowls. By the way, the average NE record over the last 10 years is 10-6.

I just don't think Bruschi has any chance, since I don't hear anyone touting Thomas as a HOFer and I think he has had a better career, but instead of Brady he had Dan Marino for 4 years at the end of his career (3 17 TD or less seasons), Jay Fiedler and Gus Frerrote.

 
I can't even see him getting consideration, given where he is today. I've never considered him one of the elite players at his position. If you were to list the top 10 LBs during his career, does he even make the list? I'm not sure he would, and if he did, probably just barely.

 
Some guys from the NE defense need to make it, don't they? If you don't take Bruschi, who do you take? Harrison is very good, but he doesn't have all 3 rings. McGinnest? Wilfork? Who? Or was NE's success just Tom Brady and Bellicheck's schemes?

 
Some guys from the NE defense need to make it, don't they? If you don't take Bruschi, who do you take? Harrison is very good, but he doesn't have all 3 rings. McGinnest? Wilfork? Who? Or was NE's success just Tom Brady and Bellicheck's schemes?
Wilfork? Huh? It's the Hall of Fame. Rings are nice, but you need to be a great player. And they are the team with no stars right? Well, it might mean the dynasty with no HOFers (on D, at least very few).

 
Some guys from the NE defense need to make it, don't they? If you don't take Bruschi, who do you take? Harrison is very good, but he doesn't have all 3 rings. McGinnest? Wilfork? Who? Or was NE's success just Tom Brady and Bellicheck's schemes?
Do they? Why?
 
Some guys from the NE defense need to make it, don't they?  If you don't take Bruschi, who do you take?  Harrison is very good, but he doesn't have all 3 rings.  McGinnest?  Wilfork? Who?  Or was NE's success just Tom Brady and Bellicheck's schemes?
Wilfork? Huh? It's the Hall of Fame. Rings are nice, but you need to be a great player. And they are the team with no stars right? Well, it might mean the dynasty with no HOFers (on D, at least very few).
McGinest is a possibility, although I'm not sure I consider him to be a HOFer, even if he does hold the all time playoff (and single game playoff) sack record.Seymour will make it if he continues on the path he's on. Harrison should make it. So should Ty Law.

 
Some guys from the NE defense need to make it, don't they? If you don't take Bruschi, who do you take? Harrison is very good, but he doesn't have all 3 rings. McGinnest? Wilfork? Who? Or was NE's success just Tom Brady and Bellicheck's schemes?
I'm not sure any Patriots' defenders from this current Super Bowl era will even get serious consideration. Harrison and Law would be the two with the best chance currently, and I can't say either are likely to get the nod at this point.People tend to forget how hard it is to get into the Pro Football HOF, particularly at certain positions. At LB, Harry Carson had to fight to get in for ages. Derrick Thomas might have trouble getting in.

In the modern era, only 16 LBs have been inducted (including Carson):

Bobby Bell (also DE) 1963-1974
Nick Buoniconti 1962-1974, 1976
#### Butkus 1965-1973
Harry Carson 1976-1988
George Connor (also DT, OT) 1948-1955
Bill George 1952-1966
Jack Ham 1971-1982
Ted Hendricks 1969-1983
Sam Huff 1956-1967, 1969
Jack Lambert 1974-1984
Willie Lanier 1967-1977
Ray Nitschke 1958-1972
Joe Schmidt 1953-1965
Mike Singletary 1981-1992
Lawrence Taylor 1981-1993
Dave Wilcox 1964-1974While the PFHOF certainly does factor championships into account, you have to have a pretty compelling body of work individually too, particularly for modern era players.

Of Bruschi's direct contemporaries...you have to assume that Derrick Brooks and Ray Lewis are the locks of this era. You've also got Junior Seau who's likely a first ballot inductee. How many LBs will get in from this time period? History says not too many more than those guys.

Bruschi made one Pro Bowl...do you realize how many active linebackers have made at least three Pro Bowls?

Brian Urlacher (4 PBs, plus one Defensive Player of the Year)
Jeremiah Trotter (4 PBs)
Derrick Brooks (9 PBs, plus one Defensive Player of the Year)
Keith Brooking (4 PBs)
Al Wilson (3 PBs)
Zach Thomas (5 PBs)
Joey Porter (3 PBs)
Ray Lewis (5 PBs plus one Defensive Player of the Year)
Lavar Arrington (3 PBs)
Peter Boulware (3 PBs)
Junior Seau (11 PBs)
 
Not even close...

but then again he played up his comeback so much in the media whoring attention every chance he could get maybe some of the voters will remember that and give a sympathy vote to him.

 
From Future HOF Candidates:

There are only 16 LBs in the HOF, and only 3 of them played even one season in the past 20 years: Taylor, Singletary, and Carson. (And Carson barely did, playing from 1976-1988.)

I'm not sure what to make of this, since Taylor & Singletary were LBs for the ages, and Carson was considerably less qualified IMO.
And Bruschi's career has overlapped with those of Ray Lewis, Derrick Brooks, and Junior Seau, all of whom are better candidates. From the same thread:
Here are some comparisons:

Brooks:

176 games

1411 tackles

13.5 sacks

21 interceptions

104 passes defensed

21 forced fumbles

4 fumble recoveries

5 TDs

9 Pro Bowls

5 All NFL selections

1 Defensive MVP

Team 5-5 in postseason play, including 1-0 in Super Bowls

Lewis:

134 games

1295 tackles

23 sacks

21 interceptions

71 passes defensed

7 forced fumbles

11 fumble recoveries

1 TD

5 Pro Bowls

5 All NFL selections

2 Defensive MVPs - 6th player in history to win more than once; all others are HOFers, or will be (LT, Mean Joe, Bruce Smith, Singletary, Reggie White)

1 Super Bowl MVP

Team 5-2 in postseason play, including 1-0 in Super Bowls

Seau:

230 games

1670 tackles

52 sacks

15 interceptions

90 passes defensed

11 forced fumbles

17 fumble recoveries

0 TDs

11 Pro Bowls

7 All NFL selections

0 Defensive MVPs

Named to NFL's All Decade team for 1990s

Team 3-3 in postseason play, including 0-1 in Super Bowls

I know character isn't supposed to matter, but obviously Lewis trails the other two there. I'm not as certain for Brooks, but Seau has won many awards for his charitable endeavors.

Also, while it probably isn't supposed to matter much, Seau may be the best Asian American ever to play the game. (I can't think of another who was better.) We just saw that race was considered an important factor for Moon, not sure if it will be a factor for Seau or not.

It's hard for me to rank Brooks over Seau, though Brooks has a few more years left to close the gap. Of course, I suspect Capella and perhaps many others will not see a gap.

As for Lewis, his two defensive MVPs and his Super Bowl MVP should seal his induction IMO.

Maybe all 3 will make it.
Given how few LBs have made it in the past, I can't see 4 making it from one era. Plus, I doubt Bruschi would be ranked fourth best from this era anyway, as others have said.
 
Some guys from the NE defense need to make it, don't they? If you don't take Bruschi, who do you take? Harrison is very good, but he doesn't have all 3 rings. McGinnest? Wilfork? Who? Or was NE's success just Tom Brady and Bellicheck's schemes?
From the same thread referenced in my last post:
I don't see how Rodney Harrison is a LOCK, but maybe that's just me.
Maybe that is an overstatement. Here is a possibly relevant post on the safeties from the Lynch HOF thread:
Rodney Harrison:

158 games

1026 tackles

27.5 sacks

31 interceptions

104 passes defensed

13 forced fumbles

8 fumble recoveries

4 TDs (including 2 kick return TDs)

2 All Pro selections

2 Pro Bowls

His teams played 12 postseason games to date, with a record of 9-3, including 2-1 in Super Bowls

Leroy Butler:

181 games

890 tackles

20.5 sacks

38 interceptions

130 passes defensed

13 forced fumbles

10 fumble recoveries

3 TDs

4 All Pro selections

4 Pro Bowls

Selected for 1990s All Decade team

His teams played 16 postseason games, with a record of 10-6, including 1-1 in Super Bowls

Darren Woodson:

178 games

940 tackles

11 sacks

23 interceptions

83 passes defensed

13 forced fumbles

11 fumble recoveries

2 TDs

3 All Pro selections

5 Pro Bowls

His teams played 16 postseason games, with a record of 11-5, including 3-0 in Super Bowls

John Lynch:

195 games

914 tackles

12 sacks

26 interceptions

85 passes defensed

14 forced fumbles

8 fumble recoveries

0 TDs

3 All Pro selections

5 Pro Bowls

His teams played 11 postseason games to date, with a record of 6-5, including 1-0 in Super Bowls

Brian Dawkins:

141 games

703 tackles

17 sacks

28 interceptions

132 passes defensed

21 forced fumbles

15 fumble recoveries

3 TDs (includes 1 receiving TD)

2 All Pro selections

4 Pro Bowls

His teams played 13 postseason games to date, with a record of 7-6, including 0-1 in Super Bowls

...

There is no way all of these guys will make the HOF, and I think it will be tough for the voters to figure out which ones stood out.

...

Harrison, Butler, and Woodson all look more deserving, and Dawkins has played 54 fewer games than Lynch... who knows how his numbers will compare when he is done.
Perhaps I am assuming too much, but I was guessing that 1 or 2 of these safeties stood a good chance of making the HOF, in addition to Rod Woodson, of course.
I think Harrison has the best chance from the Pats defense, at least for those who have played most of their careers already.
 
I'm not sure any Patriots' defenders from this current Super Bowl era will even get serious consideration. Harrison and Law would be the two with the best chance currently, and I can't say either are likely to get the nod at this point.
I could see Harrison getting more than cursory consideration. I also wouldn't be terribly surprised to see Seymour get the same though he has more of his career to play out. I think he's kind of underrated by the public in general though. Ask the average football fan of the top DL and I bet if his name comes up, it isn't until the guy has to sit there and start going through team by team thinking of who their best players are to see who he missed. Guys like Strahan, Abraham and Freeney will jump to mind immediately.
 
Not even close...

but then again he played up his comeback so much in the media whoring attention every chance he could get maybe some of the voters will remember that and give a sympathy vote to him.
:rolleyes:
 
Some guys from the NE defense need to make it, don't they? 
Nope. Great teams that win Super Bowls get Super Bowl rings. Only the best players go to the Hall of Fame.
You're kidding only yourself if you don't think championship rings play into the HOF selection process.Not saying that it's right; just saying that's the way it is.

 
Some guys from the NE defense need to make it, don't they?  If you don't take Bruschi, who do you take?  Harrison is very good, but he doesn't have all 3 rings.  McGinnest?  Wilfork? Who?  Or was NE's success just Tom Brady and Bellicheck's schemes?
Wilfork? Huh? It's the Hall of Fame. Rings are nice, but you need to be a great player. And they are the team with no stars right? Well, it might mean the dynasty with no HOFers (on D, at least very few).
McGinest is a possibility, although I'm not sure I consider him to be a HOFer, even if he does hold the all time playoff (and single game playoff) sack record.Seymour will make it if he continues on the path he's on. Harrison should make it. So should Ty Law.
No way on McGinest. See my post on LBs above. Too much competition.Agree on Harrison. Too early to say on Seymour.

I don't see it with Law. Within the next 5 years, Darrell Green, Deion Sanders, and Rod Woodson will definitely all make the HOF. And IMO Aeneas Williams is more deserving than Law, so he would stand to be next. Do we really think 5 corners will make it from overlapping eras? And also consider that he might have to compete with other DBs, like Butler and Darren Woodson, in addition to Harrison. Again, too much competition.

 
Some guys from the NE defense need to make it, don't they?  If you don't take Bruschi, who do you take?  Harrison is very good, but he doesn't have all 3 rings.  McGinnest?  Wilfork? Who?  Or was NE's success just Tom Brady and Bellicheck's schemes?
I'm not sure any Patriots' defenders from this current Super Bowl era will even get serious consideration. Harrison and Law would be the two with the best chance currently, and I can't say either are likely to get the nod at this point.People tend to forget how hard it is to get into the Pro Football HOF, particularly at certain positions. At LB, Harry Carson had to fight to get in for ages. Derrick Thomas might have trouble getting in.

In the modern era, only 16 LBs have been inducted (including Carson):

Bobby Bell (also DE) 1963-1974
Nick Buoniconti 1962-1974, 1976
#### Butkus 1965-1973
Harry Carson 1976-1988
George Connor (also DT, OT) 1948-1955
Bill George 1952-1966
Jack Ham 1971-1982
Ted Hendricks 1969-1983
Sam Huff 1956-1967, 1969
Jack Lambert 1974-1984
Willie Lanier 1967-1977
Ray Nitschke 1958-1972
Joe Schmidt 1953-1965
Mike Singletary 1981-1992
Lawrence Taylor 1981-1993
Dave Wilcox 1964-1974While the PFHOF certainly does factor championships into account, you have to have a pretty compelling body of work individually too, particularly for modern era players.

Of Bruschi's direct contemporaries...you have to assume that Derrick Brooks and Ray Lewis are the locks of this era. You've also got Junior Seau who's likely a first ballot inductee. How many LBs will get in from this time period? History says not too many more than those guys.

Bruschi made one Pro Bowl...do you realize how many active linebackers have made at least three Pro Bowls?

Brian Urlacher (4 PBs, plus one Defensive Player of the Year)
Jeremiah Trotter (4 PBs)
Derrick Brooks (9 PBs, plus one Defensive Player of the Year)
Keith Brooking (4 PBs)
Al Wilson (3 PBs)
Zach Thomas (5 PBs)
Joey Porter (3 PBs)
Ray Lewis (5 PBs plus one Defensive Player of the Year)
Lavar Arrington (3 PBs)
Peter Boulware (3 PBs)
Junior Seau (11 PBs)
Good post, though I believe Lewis has two defensive MVPs. Also, Pro Bowls are interesting, but All Pro selections are more compelling. Bruschi has none.
 
Some guys from the NE defense need to make it, don't they?  If you don't take Bruschi, who do you take?  Harrison is very good, but he doesn't have all 3 rings.  McGinnest?  Wilfork? Who?  Or was NE's success just Tom Brady and Bellicheck's schemes?
I'm not sure any Patriots' defenders from this current Super Bowl era will even get serious consideration. Harrison and Law would be the two with the best chance currently, and I can't say either are likely to get the nod at this point.People tend to forget how hard it is to get into the Pro Football HOF, particularly at certain positions. At LB, Harry Carson had to fight to get in for ages. Derrick Thomas might have trouble getting in.

In the modern era, only 16 LBs have been inducted (including Carson):

Bobby Bell (also DE) 1963-1974
Nick Buoniconti 1962-1974, 1976
#### Butkus 1965-1973
Harry Carson 1976-1988
George Connor (also DT, OT) 1948-1955
Bill George 1952-1966
Jack Ham 1971-1982
Ted Hendricks 1969-1983
Sam Huff 1956-1967, 1969
Jack Lambert 1974-1984
Willie Lanier 1967-1977
Ray Nitschke 1958-1972
Joe Schmidt 1953-1965
Mike Singletary 1981-1992
Lawrence Taylor 1981-1993
Dave Wilcox 1964-1974While the PFHOF certainly does factor championships into account, you have to have a pretty compelling body of work individually too, particularly for modern era players.

Of Bruschi's direct contemporaries...you have to assume that Derrick Brooks and Ray Lewis are the locks of this era. You've also got Junior Seau who's likely a first ballot inductee. How many LBs will get in from this time period? History says not too many more than those guys.

Bruschi made one Pro Bowl...do you realize how many active linebackers have made at least three Pro Bowls?

Brian Urlacher (4 PBs, plus one Defensive Player of the Year)
Jeremiah Trotter (4 PBs)
Derrick Brooks (9 PBs, plus one Defensive Player of the Year)
Keith Brooking (4 PBs)
Al Wilson (3 PBs)
Zach Thomas (5 PBs)
Joey Porter (3 PBs)
Ray Lewis (5 PBs plus one Defensive Player of the Year)
Lavar Arrington (3 PBs)
Peter Boulware (3 PBs)
Junior Seau (11 PBs)
Good post, though I believe Lewis has two defensive MVPs. Also, Pro Bowls are interesting, but All Pro selections are more compelling. Bruschi has none.
Completely agree that PB selections are far less meaningful than All Pro nods, which further emphasizes just how far away Bruschi is from HOF induction.
 
No way on McGinest.  See my post on LBs above.  Too much competition.

Agree on Harrison.  Too early to say on Seymour.

I don't see it with Law.  Within the next 5 years, Darrell Green, Deion Sanders, and Rod Woodson will definitely all make the HOF.  And IMO Aeneas Williams is more deserving than Law, so he would stand to be next.  Do we really think 5 corners will make it from overlapping eras?  And also consider that he might have to compete with other DBs, like Butler and Darren Woodson, in addition to Harrison.  Again, too much competition.
True, I suppose that I was being overly nice by saying McGinest may be a possibility. I agree, I don't think he gets in.Woodson, Sanders, and Green are all going to make the Hall, as you stated. But Law will have played perhaps more than another half-decade since the time these guys retired (with the possible exception of Sanders). I don't see Law retiring for at least a couple more years. And even if he continues to slow down, he could be shifted to free safety, and immediately be among the very best in the league, a la Rod Woodson. If that happens, we could be talking another 4-5 years from today before he retires. And if that happens, I'd have to say he stands a great shot at the Hall.

Honestly, I think he stands a good shot anyway. He's long been among the very elite corners in the game, and was the very best in the game for a time. He also has the big games on his resume (the 3 INTs against the Colts, the TD return against the Rams in a game that I think should have gotten him Super Bowl MVP).

Ty Law was, in his prime, a true shutdown corner, which (in my opinion) cannot be said about any current CBs.

 
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I think Bruschi doesn't have much of a chance, but none of these guys are done playing. I don't expect Bruschi to be anything different on the field, but theortically if Harrison comes back, Law returns to New England, and say they win another SB or two any of these guys could get in. If you have decent numbers and some Pro Bowls, having 4-5 rings certainly won't hurt your cause.

As it stands now, the HOFers from New England in their 3-time SB run looks like Brady. That's it. You guys are shooting down Law and Harrison. Seymour seems like the most likely if he can play at the same level for a number of more years. There's no one else really to talk about unless Dillon plays productively for several more years. And unless the Hall starts taking kickers, Vinatieri won't make it either. Three rings I guess = 1 HOFer (maybe two if you count Seymour).

 
I think Bruschi doesn't have much of a chance, but none of these guys are done playing. I don't expect Bruschi to be anything different on the field, but theortically if Harrison comes back, Law returns to New England, and say they win another SB or two any of these guys could get in. If you have decent numbers and some Pro Bowls, having 4-5 rings certainly won't hurt your cause.

As it stands now, the HOFers from New England in their 3-time SB run looks like Brady. That's it. You guys are shooting down Law and Harrison. Seymour seems like the most likely if he can play at the same level for a number of more years. There's no one else really to talk about unless Dillon plays productively for several more years. And unless the Hall starts taking kickers, Vinatieri won't make it either. Three rings I guess = 1 HOFer (maybe two if you count Seymour).
I know you were just counting coaches, but Belichick is a :lock: as well.The thing I have with Law is I never viewed him as any better than Sam Madison, and no one ever talks about him making it. Both top AFC East corners for half a decade, but probably won't make it.

 
The thing I have with Law is I never viewed him as any better than Sam Madison, and no one ever talks about him making it. Both top AFC East corners for half a decade, but probably won't make it.
Ty Law was most certainly a better cornerback than Sam Madison.
 
Some guys from the NE defense need to make it, don't they? If you don't take Bruschi, who do you take? Harrison is very good, but he doesn't have all 3 rings. McGinnest? Wilfork? Who? Or was NE's success just Tom Brady and Bellicheck's schemes?
I'm not sure any Patriots' defenders from this current Super Bowl era will even get serious consideration. Harrison and Law would be the two with the best chance currently, and I can't say either are likely to get the nod at this point.People tend to forget how hard it is to get into the Pro Football HOF, particularly at certain positions. At LB, Harry Carson had to fight to get in for ages. Derrick Thomas might have trouble getting in.

In the modern era, only 16 LBs have been inducted (including Carson):

Bobby Bell (also DE) 1963-1974
Nick Buoniconti 1962-1974, 1976
#### Butkus 1965-1973
Harry Carson 1976-1988
George Connor (also DT, OT) 1948-1955
Bill George 1952-1966
Jack Ham 1971-1982
Ted Hendricks 1969-1983
Sam Huff 1956-1967, 1969
Jack Lambert 1974-1984
Willie Lanier 1967-1977
Ray Nitschke 1958-1972
Joe Schmidt 1953-1965
Mike Singletary 1981-1992
Lawrence Taylor 1981-1993
Dave Wilcox 1964-1974While the PFHOF certainly does factor championships into account, you have to have a pretty compelling body of work individually too, particularly for modern era players.

Of Bruschi's direct contemporaries...you have to assume that Derrick Brooks and Ray Lewis are the locks of this era. You've also got Junior Seau who's likely a first ballot inductee. How many LBs will get in from this time period? History says not too many more than those guys.

Bruschi made one Pro Bowl...do you realize how many active linebackers have made at least three Pro Bowls?

Brian Urlacher (4 PBs, plus one Defensive Player of the Year)
Jeremiah Trotter (4 PBs)
Derrick Brooks (9 PBs, plus one Defensive Player of the Year)
Keith Brooking (4 PBs)
Al Wilson (3 PBs)
Zach Thomas (5 PBs)
Joey Porter (3 PBs)
Ray Lewis (5 PBs plus one Defensive Player of the Year)
Lavar Arrington (3 PBs)
Peter Boulware (3 PBs)
Junior Seau (11 PBs)
very, very interesting post - thank you.
 
I think Bruschi doesn't have much of a chance, but none of these guys are done playing.  I don't expect Bruschi to be anything different on the field, but theortically if Harrison comes back, Law returns to New England, and say they win another SB or two any of these guys could get in.  If you have decent numbers and some Pro Bowls, having 4-5 rings certainly won't hurt your cause. 

As it stands now, the HOFers from New England in their 3-time SB run looks like Brady.  That's it.  You guys are shooting down Law and Harrison.  Seymour seems like the most likely if he can play at the same level for a number of more years.  There's no one else really to talk about unless Dillon plays productively for several more years.  And unless the Hall starts taking kickers, Vinatieri won't make it either.  Three rings I guess = 1 HOFer (maybe two if you count Seymour).
I know you were just counting coaches, but Belichick is a :lock: as well.The thing I have with Law is I never viewed him as any better than Sam Madison, and no one ever talks about him making it. Both top AFC East corners for half a decade, but probably won't make it.
WOW! I dont know if Law is a HOF'er (close IMO) but Madison was NEVER in Law's league. And although a huge Patriots fan, I am not the biggest Law fan so take it for what it is worth.Playing in the 3-4 defense, Bruschi would NEVER put up stats that would make him a popular vote for All Pro. Truth be told, he probably hasnt had a regular season that was worthy of All Pro selection. He is just a CLUTCH, CLUTCH player. I would equate him to Paul O'Neil of the great Yankee teams. O'Neil wont make the HOF either but he was critical to their success.

Bruschi will be a Patriot HOF'er but not Pro Football.

Brady, Belichek, Seymour, Harrison and maybe Law is how I see the Pats for potential HOF'ers.

I think Seymour already has at least 2 All Pro selections. All Pro selection is definitely the best criteria. Pro Bowls mean nothing.

 
I would equate [Tedy Bruschi] to Paul O'Neil of the great Yankee teams. O'Neil wont make the HOF either but he was critical to their success.
Pat Patriot, did you just compare our beloved Tedy Bruschi to a Yankee? :hot:

 
Some guys from the NE defense need to make it, don't they?  
Nope. Great teams that win Super Bowls get Super Bowl rings. Only the best players go to the Hall of Fame.
You're kidding only yourself if you don't think championship rings play into the HOF selection process.Not saying that it's right; just saying that's the way it is.
Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. In the specific case of the HOF LB's listed above, you could argue Nick Buoniconti was a borderline HOF-type player who got over the hump because of his rings. The fact the 1972-1973 Dolphins had no HOF defensive player from a dominating defense was probably the reason he finally made it. I'm not sure if anyone else on the list needed rings to make it in. Sam Huff might have gotten the nod because he was on TV a lot with the Giants (even though his team kept blowing chances for a ring).
 
The thing I have with Law is I never viewed him as any better than Sam Madison, and no one ever talks about him making it. Both top AFC East corners for half a decade, but probably won't make it.
Ty Law was most certainly a better cornerback than Sam Madison.
In your opinion. I thought they were pretty much equal. What made Law better than Madison? For what it's worth, they both made 3 Pro Bowls (ironically enough, they never made it the same year but one made it each year from '98 to '03).

Law was better than Madison this year, and Law deserved his Pro Bowl berth. But I think we're comparing the Dolphins' Madison to the Patriots' Law.

 
Not even close...

but then again he played up his comeback so much in the media whoring attention every chance he could get maybe some of the voters will remember that and give a sympathy vote to him.
"Whoring attention?"Nice try... :pokey:

 
Bruschi won't make the NFL Hall of Fame, but when he retires, he will certainly make the Patriots Hall of Fame, and you can count on his number being retired.

And when it does, I'll be standing on my seat screaming my lungs out in appreciation of all he's meant to the organization and community. One of the league's all-time good guys.

 
Some guys from the NE defense need to make it, don't they?  
Nope. Great teams that win Super Bowls get Super Bowl rings. Only the best players go to the Hall of Fame.
You're kidding only yourself if you don't think championship rings play into the HOF selection process.Not saying that it's right; just saying that's the way it is.
Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. In the specific case of the HOF LB's listed above, you could argue Nick Buoniconti was a borderline HOF-type player who got over the hump because of his rings. The fact the 1972-1973 Dolphins had no HOF defensive player from a dominating defense was probably the reason he finally made it. I'm not sure if anyone else on the list needed rings to make it in. Sam Huff might have gotten the nod because he was on TV a lot with the Giants (even though his team kept blowing chances for a ring).
You said, "Great teams that win Super Bowls get Super Bowl rings. Only the best players go to the Hall of Fame."I was merely pointing out that that is not always necessarily true.

 
The thing I have with Law is I never viewed him as any better than Sam Madison, and no one ever talks about him making it. Both top AFC East corners for half a decade, but probably won't make it.
Ty Law was most certainly a better cornerback than Sam Madison.
In your opinion. I thought they were pretty much equal. What made Law better than Madison? For what it's worth, they both made 3 Pro Bowls (ironically enough, they never made it the same year but one made it each year from '98 to '03).

Law was better than Madison this year, and Law deserved his Pro Bowl berth. But I think we're comparing the Dolphins' Madison to the Patriots' Law.
I think Law > Madison in most people's opinions, not just mine. What made Law better than Madison? He was a better overall CB. He was better in coverage and he was a better tackler. That's not to take anything away from Madison, who was a heck of a CB himself; he just wan't quite up to Law's standards, that's all.And yes, I am comparing Law's Patriot days to Madison's Dolphin days.

 
Some guys from the NE defense need to make it, don't they?
Nope. Great teams that win Super Bowls get Super Bowl rings. Only the best players go to the Hall of Fame.
You're kidding only yourself if you don't think championship rings play into the HOF selection process.Not saying that it's right; just saying that's the way it is.
Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. In the specific case of the HOF LB's listed above, you could argue Nick Buoniconti was a borderline HOF-type player who got over the hump because of his rings. The fact the 1972-1973 Dolphins had no HOF defensive player from a dominating defense was probably the reason he finally made it. I'm not sure if anyone else on the list needed rings to make it in. Sam Huff might have gotten the nod because he was on TV a lot with the Giants (even though his team kept blowing chances for a ring).
You said, "Great teams that win Super Bowls get Super Bowl rings. Only the best players go to the Hall of Fame."I was merely pointing out that that is not always necessarily true.
I think you're getting who said what confused.I also think you are misreading Ghost Rider's post. I read the point of his post as being "3 rings by themselves don't guarantee the Hall", which is what the first poster more or less insinuated.

That doesn't mean he is saying that rings don't contribute to the determination of who the best player is. It just means rings by themselves (or at least, just 3) aren't enough to get you in. My $0.02.

 
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The thing I have with Law is I never viewed him as any better than Sam Madison, and no one ever talks about him making it. Both top AFC East corners for half a decade, but probably won't make it.
Ty Law was most certainly a better cornerback than Sam Madison.
In your opinion. I thought they were pretty much equal. What made Law better than Madison? For what it's worth, they both made 3 Pro Bowls (ironically enough, they never made it the same year but one made it each year from '98 to '03).

Law was better than Madison this year, and Law deserved his Pro Bowl berth. But I think we're comparing the Dolphins' Madison to the Patriots' Law.
I think Law > Madison in most people's opinions, not just mine. What made Law better than Madison? He was a better overall CB. He was better in coverage and he was a better tackler. That's not to take anything away from Madison, who was a heck of a CB himself; he just wan't quite up to Law's standards, that's all.And yes, I am comparing Law's Patriot days to Madison's Dolphin days.
Law probably was the better tackler, but I think Madison was the better coverage guy. It's real difficult to compare CBs on different teams and with different schemes. Madison did make two All Pro teams in 1999 and 2000. I'm not sure how many Law made (I know he did in 1998); I'd guess he made two as well.
 
Bruschi won't make the NFL Hall of Fame, but when he retires, he will certainly make the Patriots Hall of Fame, and you can count on his number being retired.

And when it does, I'll be standing on my seat screaming my lungs out in appreciation of all he's meant to the organization and community. One of the league's all-time good guys.
:thumbup: This really isn't close IMO. Figure, Urlacher, Lewis, Brooks, Edwards, maybe Zach Thomas all have a better chance. (ETA Seau)

 
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Law probably was the better tackler, but I think Madison was the better coverage guy. It's real difficult to compare CBs on different teams and with different schemes. Madison did make two All Pro teams in 1999 and 2000. I'm not sure how many Law made (I know he did in 1998); I'd guess he made two as well.
Again, I think most people who have watched a lot of AFC East games would say that Law is better both tackling and in coverage. But you're entitled to your opinion, of course.Not sure how many times Law has been an All Pro off the top of my head, but I do know he's been the NFL's Defensive Back of the Year twice, which more than covers Madison's two All Pro selections.

 
We Buffalo Bills fans have our own point of view of Bruschi.

Since ESPN has already established that he sits at the right hand of the Heavenly Father, the NFL HOF would be a downgrade.

 
While he's my second all time favorite after Brady I don't see Bruschi making it. While he was as good a defensive player as there was in the league (not LB but defender) in 03 and 04 Bruschi has not played at that level for his whole career. Early in his career he was a jack of all trades contributor as he moved from DE to OLb to finally finding his home at ILB. He was a solid player but nothing special. It really wasn't until BB came to town that he settled down and became a big time player. Since than he has been a dynamo who has made big play after big play and has been a key cog in three titles. His striping of the ball against Indy in the playoffs is one of the best defensive players I have ever seen. His leadership ability both on and off the field is second to none as well. If he had played his whole career at that level he would be a big time candidate but that's not the case.

As for other Patriots making the Hall:

Brady-Will be automatic.

BB-See Brady.

AV-I think he gets in easily. His combination of stats, rings, monster kicks and good guy persona with the press will get him in. The fact the Pats are viewed as a team with limited star power will also help him. He also has a chance to add some serious numbers to his resume playing for Indy in a dome.

Law-On the fence right now. He's close to cracking the top 10 in all time ints, has three rings and has great moments (TD against the Rams and dominating Marvin and the Colts with three ints). How the rest of his career plays out will probably be the deciding factor.

Willie-I don't see it happening. Like Bruschi he did not play his whole career at the level he has the last five years.

Seymour-If his career continues like it has he's a first ballot lock.

Harrison-He should but I'm not sure how the voters will view him because some don't like his style.. He's a guy who's value you simply can't understand unless you watch him play every game. The guy is a big time leader who's intensity is unrivaled.

Dillon-Probably not unless he revives his career and puts up some more serious numbers. The fact he has a surly attitude and has never been a media favorite won't help him either.

 
We Buffalo Bills fans have our own point of view of Bruschi.

Since ESPN has already established that he sits at the right hand of the Heavenly Father, the NFL HOF would be a downgrade.
Are these the same Buffalo Bill fans who laughed at us Patriots fans when the Bills got Bledsoe for a 1st rounder and Milloy as a free agent?
 
We Buffalo Bills fans have our own point of view of Bruschi.

Since ESPN has already established that he sits at the right hand of the Heavenly Father, the NFL HOF would be a downgrade.
Are these the same Buffalo Bill fans who laughed at us Patriots fans when the Bills got Bledsoe for a 1st rounder and Milloy as a free agent?
Yes....one in the same....i might add those deals were made by former GM Tom Donahoe. Who the aforementioned ESPN also lambasted the Bills organization for letting TD go. And claimed he would be scooped up by another team quicker than you could say Marv Levy. Yes....that Tom Donahoe who is still unemployed.and i wasn't laughing when they gave a 1st for Bledsoe.

 
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