Texans still look like an expansion team? (1 Viewer)

[Bri]

I was thinking yesterday that they still look like an expansion team. Anyone else feel that way?

If so what do you think they've done wrong building that team?

Please no Mario vs Bush debates. It's one piece to 53 piece puzzle, they'd still need 52 other pieces.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Draft history.

2006 transactions

2005 transactions.

2004 transactions.

2003 transactions.

The truth is out there...

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I was thinking yesterday that they still look like an expansion team. Anyone else feel that way?

Yes. I know you said you don't want any Bush vs. Mario debates, but IMO that pick provides a nice summary of what's gone wrong with this franchise.

 

[zamboni]

I actually think they're at least heading in the right direction with Kubiak, but they've certainly shown no material signs of improving. Their OL has been brutal since Day One, and their decision to stick with Carr is probably holding them back.

If they go another direction at QB (Kubiak's strength) and beef up the line, they might make even more progress next year.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I actually think they're at least heading in the right direction with Kubiak, but they've certainly shown no material signs of improving. Their OL has been brutal since Day One, and their decision to stick with Carr is probably holding them back.

If they go another direction at QB (Kubiak's strength) and beef up the line, they might make even more progress next year.

Injuries are what plagued the line this year. That and David Carr really is that bad of a QB. There is a lot of validity to saying that he causes a lot of the sacks. They also have NO playmakers on offense. Andre Johnson is okay, but other than that, they have no #2 nor are they playing an NFL caliber player at running back.

They had a nice draft this year so there is hope. If they do as well this coming year (and get a QB) it could turn around quickly.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I was thinking yesterday that they still look like an expansion team. Anyone else feel that way?If so what do you think they've done wrong building that team?Please no Mario vs Bush debates. It's one piece to 53 piece puzzle, they'd still need 52 other pieces.

Texans>Lions>RaidersBut the way they have just abandoned the pass even down like they were against NE is scary. If Carr is that bad then put Rosenfelds in and ride out the rest of the year. Texans have some nice players in place on D and having Andre Johnson is always nice. Still gotta be frustrating to be a fan though. I thought they had it solved two years ago and tehn boom, they hit the ground pretty hard.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

So who is the Texans' starting QB next year?

Free agents

Collins, Kerry UFA Titans

Garcia, Jeff UFA Eagles

Gray, Quinn RFA Jaguars

Huard, Damon UFA Chiefs

Johnson, Doug UFA Bengals

Lemon, Cleo RFA Dolphins

Navarre, John RFA Cardinals

Rattay, Tim UFA Buccaneers

Schaub, Matt RFA Falcons

Simms, Chris UFA Buccaneers

Sorgi, Jim RFA Colts

Tuiasosopo, Marques UFA Raiders

Wright, Anthony UFA Bengals

Rookies

Brady Quinn, Notre Dame

Brian Brohm, Louisville Jr.

Drew Stanton, Michigan St.

Troy Smith, Ohio St.

Chris Leak, Florida

Jamarcus Russell, LSU, Jr.

Trent Edwards, Stanford

Kevin Kolb, Houston

Tyler Palko, Pitt

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

So who is the Texans' starting QB next year?

Jake Plummer

 

[Andy Dufresne]

So who is the Texans' starting QB next year?

Jake Plummer

Aha! He's not a FA, though, is he? Is he going to get cut or traded?Edit: Likely to be cut.

Plummer will play elsewhere

Denver: Tonight begins the Broncos' Cutler era, but the chatter about what will become of Plummer already has begun. He will not be back in Denver next season.

Sure, Shanahan said he would like Plummer to return as a backup, but Plummer will want to be elsewhere. There could be starting jobs available in Oakland, Green Bay and even Philadelphia, if Donovan McNabb has a setback in his recovery from a torn anterior cruciate ligament. Expect Plummer to try to get out. And expect Denver to respect his wishes.

Plummer is likely to be cut after June 1. Cutting Plummer then will save Denver more than $3 million. You will hear and read more about Plummer's departure until it happens. He wants to play, and it won't be here.

 

[my man otis]

So who is the Texans' starting QB next year?

Jake Plummer

No doubt.He might throw 30 INTs next year though.LOL at a Plummer & Dayne backfield!

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

So who is the Texans' starting QB next year?

Jake Plummer

Aha! He's not a FA, though, is he? Is he going to get cut or traded?

Traded for, oh, a 5th round pick.

 

[Donny Loved Bowling]

Link available to all players FA status for next year?

 

[Mike]

If Carr is that bad then put Rosenfelds in and ride out the rest of the year.

Rosenfels is on IR. I'm sure he'd be in there otherwise.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Link available to all players FA status for next year?

Link.

 

[dparker713]

I was thinking yesterday that they still look like an expansion team. Anyone else feel that way?If so what do you think they've done wrong building that team?Please no Mario vs Bush debates. It's one piece to 53 piece puzzle, they'd still need 52 other pieces.

They were better their first year in the league. Atleast then the defense was middle of the pack. They have been flat out mismanaged to this point and have nearly no talent on their roster.

 

[Buckna]

I was thinking yesterday that they still look like an expansion team. Anyone else feel that way?If so what do you think they've done wrong building that team?Please no Mario vs Bush debates. It's one piece to 53 piece puzzle, they'd still need 52 other pieces.

They were better their first year in the league. Atleast then the defense was middle of the pack. They have been flat out mismanaged to this point and have nearly no talent on their roster.

Capers and Casserly completely gutted the defense in 2005. Guys like Jamie Sharper, Aaron Glenn and Marcus Coleman which made our defense a solid unit 4 years ago are all gone, in some cases even out of the league. Other than Dunta Robinson (DROY in 2004), most of the guys drafted/acquired in that era are projects (Peak, Babin) or outright failures (Buchanon.)We turned over nearly half our roster this past offseason and I expect that to continue. We still have a handful of Capers/Casserly guys (on top of Carr) that are overpaid and underperforming that I expect to be shown the door this next offseason.This team needs help everywhere. Here are some examples of former starters for the Texans and what they are doing now:Billy Miller - last year's starting TE is the 3rd string for NO.Jabar Gaffney - longtime WR2/3 was cut, picked up by the Eagles, cut in preseason and claimed off waivers by the Pats in October this yearCorey Bradford - former WR1/2 was cut, signed by Detroit and has 13 catches on the season this yearPhillip Buchanon - CB, traded for last year, got benched mid-way thru the season and then waived in October. The Bucs picked him up and are using him as a kick returner and spot duty as a CB.Jonathon Wells - one-time starting RB, backup after Dom Davis emerged (but got lots of playing time due to Dom's injuries.) Guy is without a team right now.I'm sure there are plenty more and yes, I am aware every team has stories like this, but quite literally, the Texans have had to make do with playing guys who barely even qualify as backups for other teams.

 

[coolnerd]

The texans lack a core of NFL calibur talent.

IMO, players who would start for more NFL teams than not

Andre Johnson

Demeco Ryans

Dunta Robinson

Mario Williams (not really based on his production, though I am happy enough with him at this point)

Jerome Mathis (if you think KR is a starting position)

Players who may be able start for 8 to 10 teams, but it is up for debate.

Chester Pitts

Seth Payne (healthy)

Mike Flannagan (healthy)

Anthony Weaver

DomDavis (pre knee injury)

Eric Moulds

 

[Andy Dufresne]

What's their cap situation next year?

 

[coolnerd]

What's their cap situation next year?

I believe around 20 million, but last I saw that places them in the bottom half of teams with room available.

 

[my man otis]

I was thinking yesterday that they still look like an expansion team. Anyone else feel that way?

If so what do you think they've done wrong building that team?

Please no Mario vs Bush debates. It's one piece to 53 piece puzzle, they'd still need 52 other pieces.

They were better their first year in the league. Atleast then the defense was middle of the pack. They have been flat out mismanaged to this point and have nearly no talent on their roster.

Capers and Casserly completely gutted the defense in 2005. Guys like Jamie Sharper, Aaron Glenn and Marcus Coleman which made our defense a solid unit 4 years ago are all gone, in some cases even out of the league. Other than Dunta Robinson (DROY in 2004), most of the guys drafted/acquired in that era are projects (Peak, Babin) or outright failures (Buchanon.)We turned over nearly half our roster this past offseason and I expect that to continue. We still have a handful of Capers/Casserly guys (on top of Carr) that are overpaid and underperforming that I expect to be shown the door this next offseason.

This team needs help everywhere. Here are some examples of former starters for the Texans and what they are doing now:

Billy Miller - last year's starting TE is the 3rd string for NO.

Jabar Gaffney - longtime WR2/3 was cut, picked up by the Eagles, cut in preseason and claimed off waivers by the Pats in October this year

Corey Bradford - former WR1/2 was cut, signed by Detroit and has 13 catches on the season this year

Phillip Buchanon - CB, traded for last year, got benched mid-way thru the season and then waived in October. The Bucs picked him up and are using him as a kick returner and spot duty as a CB.

Jonathon Wells - one-time starting RB, backup after Dom Davis emerged (but got lots of playing time due to Dom's injuries.) Guy is without a team right now.

I'm sure there are plenty more and yes, I am aware every team has stories like this, but quite literally, the Texans have had to make do with playing guys who barely even qualify as backups for other teams.

But why though? I mean, Carolina was 12-4 in their second year. Jax was above .500 in 4 of their first five seasons.Did the Texans not get the same draft picks/veteran choices as Car & Jax? Or is the answer as simple as better evaluation of talent? I mean, what led Jax to get Brunell from GB, McCardell, Jimmy Smith, Boselli, etc. Carolina's defense was solid the first few years of their existence. They made it thru OK with Collins.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

What's their cap situation next year?

I believe around 20 million, but last I saw that places them in the bottom half of teams with room available.

Looks to be around $14.5 million.They could be really agressive if they choose to be. And there's guys out there that could really help them if they could convince them to come to Houston.

The obvious names (to me) at obvious needs (UFA's only):

QB - Jeff Garcia, Damon Huard (Jake Plummer, although not a UFA)

RB - Ahman Green, Chris Brown, Dominic Rhodes,

WR - Drew Bennett, Kevin Curtis, Alvis Whitted (the UFA wr's suck this year)

G - Eric Steinbach

CB - Asante Samuel, Nate Clements (which teams WOULDN'T these guys help?)

S - Deon Grant, Michael Lewis (Maybe even Kevin Kaesviharn)

Draft:

1st - Alan Branch/Calvin Johnson/Adrian Peterson/Marshawn Lynch

2nd - Brandon Merriweather, Eric Weddel, Levi Brown, someone to play LOLB

 

[coolnerd]

I was thinking yesterday that they still look like an expansion team. Anyone else feel that way?

If so what do you think they've done wrong building that team?

Please no Mario vs Bush debates. It's one piece to 53 piece puzzle, they'd still need 52 other pieces.

They were better their first year in the league. Atleast then the defense was middle of the pack. They have been flat out mismanaged to this point and have nearly no talent on their roster.

Capers and Casserly completely gutted the defense in 2005. Guys like Jamie Sharper, Aaron Glenn and Marcus Coleman which made our defense a solid unit 4 years ago are all gone, in some cases even out of the league. Other than Dunta Robinson (DROY in 2004), most of the guys drafted/acquired in that era are projects (Peak, Babin) or outright failures (Buchanon.)We turned over nearly half our roster this past offseason and I expect that to continue. We still have a handful of Capers/Casserly guys (on top of Carr) that are overpaid and underperforming that I expect to be shown the door this next offseason.

This team needs help everywhere. Here are some examples of former starters for the Texans and what they are doing now:

Billy Miller - last year's starting TE is the 3rd string for NO.

Jabar Gaffney - longtime WR2/3 was cut, picked up by the Eagles, cut in preseason and claimed off waivers by the Pats in October this year

Corey Bradford - former WR1/2 was cut, signed by Detroit and has 13 catches on the season this year

Phillip Buchanon - CB, traded for last year, got benched mid-way thru the season and then waived in October. The Bucs picked him up and are using him as a kick returner and spot duty as a CB.

Jonathon Wells - one-time starting RB, backup after Dom Davis emerged (but got lots of playing time due to Dom's injuries.) Guy is without a team right now.

I'm sure there are plenty more and yes, I am aware every team has stories like this, but quite literally, the Texans have had to make do with playing guys who barely even qualify as backups for other teams.

But why though? I mean, Carolina was 12-4 in their second year. Jax was above .500 in 4 of their first five seasons.Did the Texans not get the same draft picks/veteran choices as Car & Jax? Or is the answer as simple as better evaluation of talent? I mean, what led Jax to get Brunell from GB, McCardell, Jimmy Smith, Boselli, etc. Carolina's defense was solid the first few years of their existence. They made it thru OK with Collins.

The Browns nor the Texans got the same advantages that Jags/Panthers did. the Browns deal was worse than the Texans. Capers and Casserly overreacted to having the Panthers get old quickly and did not keep many players around who were over 30. More than that though, the Texans have made poor personnel decision after poor personnel decision.

 

[-OZ-]

I was thinking yesterday that they still look like an expansion team. Anyone else feel that way?

No, they look just like the Lions. On a lot of levels really.

If so what do you think they've done wrong building that team?

they seem to be following the Lions plan.Draft crappy players, except ensure that you have one good WR, but don't let the QB have time to find him.

 

[coolnerd]

What's their cap situation next year?

I believe around 20 million, but last I saw that places them in the bottom half of teams with room available.

Looks to be around $14.5 million.They could be really agressive if they choose to be. And there's guys out there that could really help them if they could convince them to come to Houston.

The obvious names (to me) at obvious needs (UFA's only):

QB - Jeff Garcia, Damon Huard (Jake Plummer, although not a UFA)

RB - Ahman Green, Chris Brown, Dominic Rhodes,

WR - Drew Bennett, Kevin Curtis, Alvis Whitted (the UFA wr's suck this year)

G - Eric Steinbach

CB - Asante Samuel, Nate Clements (which teams WOULDN'T these guys help?)

S - Deon Grant, Michael Lewis (Maybe even Kevin Kaesviharn)

Draft:

1st - Alan Branch/Calvin Johnson/Adrian Peterson/Marshawn Lynch

2nd - Brandon Merriweather, Eric Weddel, Levi Brown, someone to play LOLB

I got my number from this thread posted by Jeff.http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...=295411&hl=

Keith does a great job of keeping up with the numbers, but totally relies on articles and news releases so he is usually (by his admission) a little off.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I got my number from this thread posted by Jeff.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...=295411&hl=

Keith does a great job of keeping up with the numbers, but totally relies on articles and news releases so he is usually (by his admission) a little off.

I just picked the best result from Google "texans salary cap".

 

[rhawkins68]

I actually think they're at least heading in the right direction with Kubiak, but they've certainly shown no material signs of improving. Their OL has been brutal since Day One, and their decision to stick with Carr is probably holding them back.If they go another direction at QB (Kubiak's strength) and beef up the line, they might make even more progress next year.

I watched several practice sessions early this season and believe that Kubiak is a strong positive for the team. The thing is he can't come in for one year and change the team instantly into a play-off team. I think they will get there in 2 more years though.

 

[shadyridr]

How bout the fact that not only did they not draft Bush but they then traded Morency for Gado.

 

[msommer]

I'd think Garcia will resign with the Eagles rather than be killed by the pass rush. I believe he had enough of a bad time in CLE and DET to want to go to such a situation again.

 

[Bri]

This team needs help everywhere. Here are some examples of former starters for the Texans and what they are doing now:Billy Miller - last year's starting TE is the 3rd string for NO.Jabar Gaffney - longtime WR2/3 was cut, picked up by the Eagles, cut in preseason and claimed off waivers by the Pats in October this yearCorey Bradford - former WR1/2 was cut, signed by Detroit and has 13 catches on the season this yearPhillip Buchanon - CB, traded for last year, got benched mid-way thru the season and then waived in October. The Bucs picked him up and are using him as a kick returner and spot duty as a CB.Jonathon Wells - one-time starting RB, backup after Dom Davis emerged (but got lots of playing time due to Dom's injuries.) Guy is without a team right now.I'm sure there are plenty more and yes, I am aware every team has stories like this, but quite literally, the Texans have had to make do with playing guys who barely even qualify as backups for other teams.

Using the players you listed-Billy Miller looked very good their first year and fell off the face of the earth. Seems to me they somehow made him regress in his development. They HAD a good TE. IIRC They wasted alot of effort on Joppru and maybe should have spent that effort on Miller.Gaffney-He plays in spots for the Pats and gets the little asked of him done. He's better than some Texans WRs now, no depth IMO, so why get rid of him? He enterred the league with some ability and talent doesn't seem to have a poor attitude, he too seems to be poor development. Derick somethingorother had a good year not too long ago, where'd that guy go?Bradford-I thought he was an expansion draft filler, didn't expect him to last long term.Buchanon-Bad trade but again a ton of talent in a youngster why can't they develop that?Wells-I feel like they've got a lot of Wells' as RBs this year and don't see any difference really. Lundy could develop and improve but right now Gado, Dayne(who looks better than I expected), and Lundy are all about as good as Wells was last year IMO. Alot of moves, no progress, so what's the point?Carr, so it seems, is about to be the next very talented player they couldn't find a way to develop and utilize his talent. I'm no Tony Banks fan but IIRC he and another vet were there so Carr could watch from the sideline and learn. Instead they threw him to the wolves and he's been beat up like no other NFL QB since he's been in the league. The other Texas team, has Romo sit for years and now does well. Bradie James plays ST and now is a solid LB. Carpenter and Burnett could easily follow James and be solid LBs in future years. What happenned to that type of building a team theory? They got plenty of vets in the expansion draft and signed a ton of free agents that first year so these young guys had time to learn.Everywhere I look they botched something. Further, I was nervous they somehow messed up Andre Johnson last year.

 

[Bri]

Did the Texans not get the same draft picks/veteran choices as Car & Jax? Or is the answer as simple as better evaluation of talent? I mean, what led Jax to get Brunell from GB, McCardell, Jimmy Smith, Boselli, etc. Carolina's defense was solid the first few years of their existence. They made it thru OK with Collins.

The Browns nor the Texans got the same advantages that Jags/Panthers did. the Browns deal was worse than the Texans. Capers and Casserly overreacted to having the Panthers get old quickly and did not keep many players around who were over 30. More than that though, the Texans have made poor personnel decision after poor personnel decision.

Didn't the other teams have a smaller amount they could keep thus increasing the Jags/Panthers talent pool? I believe the Texans (and Browns?) were given a series of extra draft picks for the first few years and if I'm not mistaken even an extra roster spot or two.

 

[coolnerd]

Did the Texans not get the same draft picks/veteran choices as Car & Jax? Or is the answer as simple as better evaluation of talent? I mean, what led Jax to get Brunell from GB, McCardell, Jimmy Smith, Boselli, etc. Carolina's defense was solid the first few years of their existence. They made it thru OK with Collins.

The Browns nor the Texans got the same advantages that Jags/Panthers did. the Browns deal was worse than the Texans. Capers and Casserly overreacted to having the Panthers get old quickly and did not keep many players around who were over 30. More than that though, the Texans have made poor personnel decision after poor personnel decision.

Didn't the other teams have a smaller amount they could keep thus increasing the Jags/Panthers talent pool? I believe the Texans (and Browns?) were given a series of extra draft picks for the first few years and if I'm not mistaken even an extra roster spot or two.

The texans got extra picks in the first two years, starting in the 2nd round. I don't remember the details of what Cleveland got.

 

[EBF]

Casserly blew draft pick after draft pick on bad players. Andre Johnson is the only impact player that they've landed in the draft. Domanick Davis was a nice find, but hardly a real difference maker.

 

[THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA]

Well this is my team, and sad to say its very sicken to watch them...Carr flat out sucks. I guess he think throwing out routes/slants is the way to go...he got no Balls. He dont wanna throw deep even if we losing by a large margin....BUT NOOOO, he wants to keep his pass % all cute...for what? When he gone be out of a starting gig next year anyway.

Passing on Vince and Bush is awhole book we can write later but they traded my FAVORITE TEXAN.....V.Morency, and why? He looked so promising...them damn fools dont know what they doing. I say we trade AJ to the cowboys and ship they ### out of here and maybe the NFL will give us a new team. I dont like the qb's coming out this year too much...i dont see any FRANCHISE QB'S from the guys coming out.... AP would be nice but i dont think he's the answer. Who knows what they do....they suck for real.

 

[pelland]

If Carr is that bad then put Rosenfelds in and ride out the rest of the year.

Rosenfels is on IR. I'm sure he'd be in there otherwise.

John Mcclain of the Houston Chronicle stated today that Carr would be taking every snap the rest of the season regardless if Sage Rosenfelds was healthy or not. The logic being that they want to see every play possible for their offseason evaluation of whether to keep Carr or cut him.

 

[Bri]

If Carr is that bad then put Rosenfelds in and ride out the rest of the year.

Rosenfels is on IR. I'm sure he'd be in there otherwise.

John Mcclain of the Houston Chronicle stated today that Carr would be taking every snap the rest of the season regardless if Sage Rosenfelds was healthy or not. The logic being that they want to see every play possible for their offseason evaluation of whether to keep Carr or cut him.

How's that help them evaluate Van Pelt?