That's just Gross, Man (1 Viewer)

[rawdog]

Disguised in the Skins 3-1 start is that Rex Grossman is, well, Rex Grossman. Anybody, esp Skins homers, think we see Beck in a few weeks?

It sounds like he's more cerebral than Grossman and has better mobility and i was baffled when they gave Grossman the #1 job out of camp.

 

[ponchsox]

You're suggesting benching a QB that has led his team to a 3-1 start?

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Disguised in the Skins 3-1 start is that Rex Grossman is, well, Rex Grossman. Anybody, esp Skins homers, think we see Beck in a few weeks?It sounds like he's more cerebral than Grossman and has better mobility and i was baffled when they gave Grossman the #1 job out of camp.

Skins homer here. If you saw them both run the offense, I'm not sure why you'd be baffled. Grossman might not be playing lights out, but he looked far better than Beck in preseason, in a way that stats can't show. I don't think we see a QB change unless the Skins go on a losing streak.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

You're suggesting benching a QB that has led his team to a 3-1 start?

He's just trying to think like a ratface.

 

[SacramentoBob]

You're suggesting benching a QB that has led his team to a 3-1 start?

Rex doesn't lead anyone to anything.The Rams gave up 31, 28 and 37 points prior to the Redskins. The Skins scored 17.Dallas gave up 27, 24 and 34 points to other teams. The Skins scored 16.Washington is 20th in scoring offense. Rex Grossman is one of the worst starting QBs in the league.

 

[Reepicheep]

I see what you did there.

 

[todisco1]

You're suggesting benching a QB that has led his team to a 3-1 start?

Rex doesn't lead anyone to anything.The Rams gave up 31, 28 and 37 points prior to the Redskins. The Skins scored 17.Dallas gave up 27, 24 and 34 points to other teams. The Skins scored 16.Washington is 20th in scoring offense. Rex Grossman is one of the worst starting QBs in the league.

I agree with your point, but are you suggesting John Beck would be a better starting QB than Grossman? As average (or below) as Grossman is, I can't quite get behind Beck being any more effective.

 

[solorca]

You don't bench a QB on a winning team. Whatever they are doing is working.

Now, if they were to lose 2-3 straight because of Grossman's poor play, then this is definitely a topic for discussion. He's certainly not untouchable, but until they start losing, he may as well be.

 

[Reepicheep]

Was flipping around the dial on sports radio yesterday, show hosts and callers were universal in calling for Beck. My favorite bit was this:

Caller: Grossman is maybe good enough to keep us batting around .500 and in playoff contention near the end of the season. But if it comes down to it, he will throw a backbreaking pick-six in a close game to end the season.



Host: See, you've already seen the movie. We've all seen the movie. We know how it ends. But Shanny and Junior think there's an alternate ending on the DVD that we don't know about.

I completely get the argument for Beck. It's basically, how bad could he be? We know exactly what Rex is. He is a mediocre, marginally competent starting NFL quarterback. He's not the worst QB in the league. If you have the best defense in the league, he's good enough to get you to a Super Bowl. That's about it.

But the NFC East is anyone's division right now, the Eagles, Giants, and Cowboys are all gimpy, and when you combine that with 4 games against NFC West teams all the Redskins need is a few favorable bounces of the football and they could find themselves at 10-6 and in the playoffs. So I can understand rolling with the known mediocrity as long as you're floating along above .500.

 

[Hairy Snowman]

Does anyone remember what this Redskins passing offense looked like before Grossman got there?

Were they lighting it up? In fact, when was the last time the offense looked good? Under Spurrier?

How was Santana Moss doing BEFORE Grossman? After all, they are loaded with talent at WR, right?

Rex is obviously under performing and hurting the team that has gotten to 3-1 for the first time in how many years? 12-4 would only be good enough to make the playoffs.

Guy never makes a good throw or a good decision. Throws 20 picks and game and fumbles at least 10 more times.

I love that he is "only" good enough to get you to a Super Bowl. Tell that to some of the teams and QBs bouncing around the league.

Haters will hate. It may not always look pretty from a fantasy perspective, but he wins, like him or not. Which obviously some people will a;ways not like him.

And I include Joe Bryant in the Haters R Us club.

Please tell me who are the big threats at WR that Grossman is holding back. . .

I remember when Trent Dilfer was run out of Baltimore for almost the same reasons. People just hating. Not good enough fantasy stats. Baltimore still hasn't made it back to a Super Bowl.

 

[Joe Summer]

You don't bench a QB on a winning team. Whatever they are doing is working.

Super Bowl teams who benched a winning QB:1. 1969 Baltimore Colts2. 1972 Miami Dolphins3. 1974 Pittsburgh Steelers4. 2000 Baltimore RavensI'm sure there are others but those were the ones that came immediately to mind.

 

[Reepicheep]

Does anyone remember what this Redskins passing offense looked like before Grossman got there? Were they lighting it up? In fact, when was the last time the offense looked good? Under Spurrier?

Pretty much the same as it does now, only with fewer picks and fewer attempts.

How was Santana Moss doing BEFORE Grossman? After all, they are loaded with talent at WR, right?

Pretty much the same as he is doing now. But I don't see "He's not making the Redskins worse" as a ringing endorsement.

Rex is obviously under performing and hurting the team that has gotten to 3-1 for the first time in how many years? 12-4 would only be good enough to make the playoffs.

The first time in three years, to be exact.

Guy never makes a good throw or a good decision. Throws 20 picks and game and fumbles at least 10 more times.

Hyperbole much?

I love that he is "only" good enough to get you to a Super Bowl. Tell that to some of the teams and QBs bouncing around the league.Haters will hate. It may not always look pretty from a fantasy perspective, but he wins, like him or not. Which obviously some people will a;ways not like him.And I include Joe Bryant in the Haters R Us club.Please tell me who are the big threats at WR that Grossman is holding back. . . I remember when Trent Dilfer was run out of Baltimore for almost the same reasons. People just hating. Not good enough fantasy stats. Baltimore still hasn't made it back to a Super Bowl.

Didn't realize there were still Gators out there carrying water for Rex eight years on. His "career year", if we can call it that, he was 25th in passer rating. J.P. Losman could have led that team to the Super Bowl.

 

[Jake22]

You don't bench a QB on a winning team. Whatever they are doing is working.

Super Bowl teams who benched a winning QB:1. 1969 Baltimore Colts2. 1972 Miami Dolphins3. 1974 Pittsburgh Steelers4. 2000 Baltimore RavensI'm sure there are others but those were the ones that came immediately to mind.

I thought Griese got hurt and that's why Miami had to play Morrall, otherwise I don't think that switch would've happened without the injury...

 

[Joe Summer]

You don't bench a QB on a winning team. Whatever they are doing is working.

Super Bowl teams who benched a winning QB:1. 1969 Baltimore Colts2. 1972 Miami Dolphins3. 1974 Pittsburgh Steelers4. 2000 Baltimore RavensI'm sure there are others but those were the ones that came immediately to mind.

I thought Griese got hurt and that's why Miami had to play Morrall, otherwise I don't think that switch would've happened without the injury...

You are correct, but Morrall ended up getting benched during the playoffs and Griese started the Super Bowl.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

"We're 10-2 with Rex Grossman as our quarterback."

 

[SoBeDad]

You're suggesting benching a QB that has led his team to a 3-1 start?

Rex doesn't lead anyone to anything.The Rams gave up 31, 28 and 37 points prior to the Redskins. The Skins scored 17.Dallas gave up 27, 24 and 34 points to other teams. The Skins scored 16.Washington is 20th in scoring offense. Rex Grossman is one of the worst starting QBs in the league.

I agree with your point, but are you suggesting John Beck would be a better starting QB than Grossman? As average (or below) as Grossman is, I can't quite get behind Beck being any more effective.

While in a Dolphin uniform, Beck never looked good. On WQAM today, former Dolphin linebacker Channing Crowder said he knew the 2007 season was going to be bad (it was 1-15), when they saw guys like Beck on the other side of the ball.

 

[thehornet]

Even if Rex is terrible, which he isn't, why would they go to Beck? Beck sucks worse than Grossman.

 

[GreenNGold]

Not only is Grossman > Beck, but I can't believe FBG is jumping on this train and suggesting adding Beck in free agency this week (even going so far as to call Beck a waiver wire gem), and saying Grossman will be demoted soon.

Grossman will not go anywhere as long as Washington is winning, and they need to lose ~3 in a row before they would even consider changing to Beck.

I would like to know what FBG is smoking right now because I need some!

 

[NBusiness]

Speaking of the redskins passing game- is there any rumblings about hankerson getting any run at all?

 

[FreeBaGeL]

You're suggesting benching a QB that has led his team to a 3-1 start?

Rex doesn't lead anyone to anything.The Rams gave up 31, 28 and 37 points prior to the Redskins. The Skins scored 17.Dallas gave up 27, 24 and 34 points to other teams. The Skins scored 16.Washington is 20th in scoring offense. Rex Grossman is one of the worst starting QBs in the league.

Sounds like the same thing you could have said about Pittsburgh and Big Ben for the last, I dunno, 6 years or so and that's worked out fine.

 

[Sidewinder16]

Speaking of the redskins passing game- is there any rumblings about hankerson getting any run at all?

Hankerson has to basically get to where he's better/more reliable than Gaffney and/or Armstrong to start seeing PT. He doesn't play ST which is why he's been inactive all year and receivers like Donte Stallworth, Niles Paul and Terrence Austin have been active. Also, coaches really love Niles Paul, so Hankerson may have a hard time leap-frogging him on the depth chart, as well.

 

[Sidewinder16]

Disguised in the Skins 3-1 start is that Rex Grossman is, well, Rex Grossman. Anybody, esp Skins homers, think we see Beck in a few weeks?

It sounds like he's more cerebral than Grossman and has better mobility and i was baffled when they gave Grossman the #1 job out of camp.

Skins homer here. If you saw them both run the offense, I'm not sure why you'd be baffled. Grossman might not be playing lights out, but he looked far better than Beck in preseason, in a way that stats can't show. I don't think we see a QB change unless the Skins go on a losing streak.

This.Shanahan's response to questions about Grossman's performance, so far:

Shanahan was asked for his assessment of Grossman’s play thus far, and the coach said statistics aren’t always the right measuring stick by which quarterbacks should be evaluated.

“Everybody can see from the statistical standpoint how a player does,” Shanahan said. “Sometimes it can be a little deceiving. Just like in the last game, all of a sudden if we hit that one when we’re up 17-zip and it’s a touchdown instead of an interception, everybody’s mind-set would be different about the quarterback.”

So what does the coach use as a measuring stick?

“All quarterbacks, every quarterback, is going to be judged by if he wins or loses,” Shanahan said. “That’s the nature of the job.”

The coach said “he’s done good,” when asked about Grossman’s play.

Grossman for a second straight week talked about his need to take better care of the ball, but added that he can’t let a fear of throwing an interception diminish his confidence and aggression, however.

Shanahan agreed.

“As a quarterback, you’ve got to have thick skin, you’ve got to understand that at the end of the day, you have to win, and at the end of the day, you have to be very tough on yourself,” Shanahan said. “You’ve got to think perfection and anything less than perfection, you don’t have the right quarterback. But you’ve got to have a guy that’s going to compete, knows when he does make mistakes, he’s going to keep on getting better, keep on pushing himself and grinding, and when you do that, you have a chance to get better as a football team.”

 

[dgreen]

Was flipping around the dial on sports radio yesterday, show hosts and callers were universal in calling for Beck. My favorite bit was this:

Caller: Grossman is maybe good enough to keep us batting around .500 and in playoff contention near the end of the season. But if it comes down to it, he will throw a backbreaking pick-six in a close game to end the season.



Host: See, you've already seen the movie. We've all seen the movie. We know how it ends. But Shanny and Junior think there's an alternate ending on the DVD that we don't know about.

Yeah, Czabe keeps beating that drum, but he has absolutely no real evidence that the Shanahans think Grossman will be anything great. All we really know, based on who plays and who doesn't, is that they think Rex is better than Beck. I think they have a good idea of how the movie will end. This whole idea the Beck should start because "We don't know what we have in him" is ridiculous. "We" don't know. But, those guys who are actually around him every single day probably have a pretty good idea what they have in him. And, of course, they know what they have in Rex. And, they've concluded that Rex is better. I'm not sure why so many people have such a problem understanding this.

 

[Reepicheep]

Was flipping around the dial on sports radio yesterday, show hosts and callers were universal in calling for Beck. My favorite bit was this:

Caller: Grossman is maybe good enough to keep us batting around .500 and in playoff contention near the end of the season. But if it comes down to it, he will throw a backbreaking pick-six in a close game to end the season.



Host: See, you've already seen the movie. We've all seen the movie. We know how it ends. But Shanny and Junior think there's an alternate ending on the DVD that we don't know about.

Yeah, Czabe keeps beating that drum, but he has absolutely no real evidence that the Shanahans think Grossman will be anything great. All we really know, based on who plays and who doesn't, is that they think Rex is better than Beck. I think they have a good idea of how the movie will end. This whole idea the Beck should start because "We don't know what we have in him" is ridiculous. "We" don't know. But, those guys who are actually around him every single day probably have a pretty good idea what they have in him. And, of course, they know what they have in Rex. And, they've concluded that Rex is better. I'm not sure why so many people have such a problem understanding this.

On the one hand I am inclined to agree with the "the coaches know more about what they have in their QBs than the fans" argument. It has obvious merit. But history has shown that coaches can be wrong about who the best QB on their team is. Warner rode the bench all year in '98 while the Rams went 4-12. The Eagles obviously did not realize what they had in Vick heading into last season. I'm not saying Beck is the second coming of Warner, or Vick, or whatever - but the point is we don't know. So while the Shanahans certainly know MORE than we know about Beck, what they DO NOT KNOW is what kind of a QB he is in real NFL games (some rookie starts for a terrible Fins team four years ago notwithstanding).All that said, in FF as well as real football we seem to err towards obsessing about how great this or that 2nd or 3rd stringer is and how they will tear it up when they finally get the chance. So I'm certainly guilty of that to a degree.

 

[Hairy Snowman]

Not only is Grossman > Beck, but I can't believe FBG is jumping on this train and suggesting adding Beck in free agency this week (even going so far as to call Beck a waiver wire gem), and saying Grossman will be demoted soon. Grossman will not go anywhere as long as Washington is winning, and they need to lose ~3 in a row before they would even consider changing to Beck. I would like to know what FBG is smoking right now because I need some!

Because Joe Bryant consistently hates on Rex and there is nothing that is going to change his mind. Any reason to suggest anyone but Rex and he will jump on it.Its almost like he bet on the Bears in the Super Bowl and never forgot. But the man love for Rivers is unending. . . with his, how many playoff wins again?

 

[Hairy Snowman]

Not only is Grossman > Beck, but I can't believe FBG is jumping on this train and suggesting adding Beck in free agency this week (even going so far as to call Beck a waiver wire gem), and saying Grossman will be demoted soon. Grossman will not go anywhere as long as Washington is winning, and they need to lose ~3 in a row before they would even consider changing to Beck. I would like to know what FBG is smoking right now because I need some!

Because Joe Bryant consistently hates on Rex and there is nothing that is going to change his mind. Any reason to suggest anyone but Rex and he will jump on it.Its almost like he bet on the Bears in the Super Bowl and never forgot. But the man love for Rivers is unending. . . with his, how many playoff wins again?

Plus there is alot of man love for Beck going back to when he came out of college. FBG have been very high on him for a while.

 

[Hairy Snowman]

Was flipping around the dial on sports radio yesterday, show hosts and callers were universal in calling for Beck. My favorite bit was this:

Caller: Grossman is maybe good enough to keep us batting around .500 and in playoff contention near the end of the season. But if it comes down to it, he will throw a backbreaking pick-six in a close game to end the season.



Host: See, you've already seen the movie. We've all seen the movie. We know how it ends. But Shanny and Junior think there's an alternate ending on the DVD that we don't know about.

Yeah, Czabe keeps beating that drum, but he has absolutely no real evidence that the Shanahans think Grossman will be anything great. All we really know, based on who plays and who doesn't, is that they think Rex is better than Beck. I think they have a good idea of how the movie will end. This whole idea the Beck should start because "We don't know what we have in him" is ridiculous. "We" don't know. But, those guys who are actually around him every single day probably have a pretty good idea what they have in him. And, of course, they know what they have in Rex. And, they've concluded that Rex is better. I'm not sure why so many people have such a problem understanding this.

On the one hand I am inclined to agree with the "the coaches know more about what they have in their QBs than the fans" argument. It has obvious merit. But history has shown that coaches can be wrong about who the best QB on their team is. Warner rode the bench all year in '98 while the Rams went 4-12. The Eagles obviously did not realize what they had in Vick heading into last season. I'm not saying Beck is the second coming of Warner, or Vick, or whatever - but the point is we don't know. So while the Shanahans certainly know MORE than we know about Beck, what they DO NOT KNOW is what kind of a QB he is in real NFL games (some rookie starts for a terrible Fins team four years ago notwithstanding).All that said, in FF as well as real football we seem to err towards obsessing about how great this or that 2nd or 3rd stringer is and how they will tear it up when they finally get the chance. So I'm certainly guilty of that to a degree.

Warner was playing arena football in 1998 and joined the team for a single game that year. He was invited to camp the next year and only became a starter after Green's injury.Vick was a project that Andy Reid transformed into an accurate passer. Vick far surpassed anyone's expectations because of Reid's tutelage, not because he suddenly became such an accurate passer.

You are saying Beck is better right now than Rex, as though you are in on every practice and stats count for something besides fantasy football.

But at least you can admit your bias, which I give you props for.

 

[dgreen]

So while the Shanahans certainly know MORE than we know about Beck, what they DO NOT KNOW is what kind of a QB he is in real NFL games (some rookie starts for a terrible Fins team four years ago notwithstanding).

The league has been full of guys who never got a shot. We could make the same claim about every single one of them: "But we just don't know what he'd be like in a real NFL game!" Not knowing shouldn't be a reason for giving someone a shot.

All that said, in FF as well as real football we seem to err towards obsessing about how great this or that 2nd or 3rd stringer is and how they will tear it up when they finally get the chance. So I'm certainly guilty of that to a degree.

I agree. Fans, especially, love the unknown. As Thom Loverro has said, "The worst thing that could happen to legend of John Beck is for him to actually play in a game." Fans have built him up in their minds to a level that he probably can't obtain.At some point, we'll see Beck in a real NFL game. Many backup QBs get a few attempts every year. If he looks good, many people will say, "See, I've been saying this all year! Kyle is a spoiled brat who just gets what he wants and he obviously just wanted Rex!" If he looks bad (or even average), we'll hear, "Well, of course he's rusty because he doesn't get the reps in practice."No matter how he performs when he gets his shot, it's not necessarily indicative of how he would have played had he started the season. Just because Kurt Warner was awesome out of the gate in 1999 doesn't mean he would have been awesome had he started in 1998.

 

[Reepicheep]

Warner was playing arena football in 1998 and joined the team for a single game that year. He was invited to camp the next year and only became a starter after Green's injury.

Incorrect. Warner played arena ball in 97. In '98 he was signed by the Rams and played in NFL Europe over the summer (NFL Europe season ended in June). He spent the 1998 NFL season running the scout team offense for the Rams in practice and rode the bench on Sundays. In the offseason both guys ahead of him on the depth chart were released and Trent Green was signed.

 

[JFurby]

Just a data point...Shanny replaced Plummer in 06 with a 7-4 record at the time. Plummer was having a mediocre season and had a shiney new Cutler behind him at the time. Beck is no Cutler so it is not an apples to apples comparison but it reveals winning is not the only criteria ratface uses in the decision.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

You don't bench a QB on a winning team. Whatever they are doing is working.

Super Bowl teams who benched a winning QB:1. 1969 Baltimore Colts2. 1972 Miami Dolphins3. 1974 Pittsburgh Steelers4. 2000 Baltimore RavensI'm sure there are others but those were the ones that came immediately to mind.

Hm maybe the 1982 or so Dolphins with Strock & Woodley could be added to this?In any event arguably all had four of perhaps the best 6-10 greatest defenses of the 1965-2010 period. The Skins not so much.

 

[Dexter Manley]

You don't bench a QB on a winning team. Whatever they are doing is working.

Super Bowl teams who benched a winning QB:

1. 1969 Baltimore Colts

2. 1972 Miami Dolphins

3. 1974 Pittsburgh Steelers

4. 2000 Baltimore Ravens

I'm sure there are others but those were the ones that came immediately to mind.

Hm maybe the 1982 or so Dolphins with Strock & Woodley could be added to this?In any event arguably all had four of perhaps the best 6-10 greatest defenses of the 1965-2010 period. The Skins not so much.

While I agree that this Washington defense isn't in the same class as any of those all time great defenses, they are easily one of the top 5 defenses in the league through 1/4 of this season. Just saying.

 

[massraider]

There are QBs that throw the Pick 6 to lose, but Rex ain't one of them .

The sack/strip/fumble is his go-to move. It's his DDT, his Figure Four Leg Lock.

 

[Hairy Snowman]

There are QBs that throw the Pick 6 to lose, but Rex ain't one of them .The sack/strip/fumble is his go-to move. It's his DDT, his Figure Four Leg Lock.

True. Defenses have keyed on forcing his fumbles also. And I doubt defenses ever stop trying extra hard to shake the ball loose from him.He's like the slot machine with slightly higher odds of paying off. Everyone wants to pull the arm and play.Not sure how much he can do about it either. You throw with one hand, not two. Maybe when he slips out of the pocket he could keep the other hand on the ball, but two hands on the ball hasn't always helped.

 

[SacramentoBob]

You're suggesting benching a QB that has led his team to a 3-1 start?

Rex doesn't lead anyone to anything.The Rams gave up 31, 28 and 37 points prior to the Redskins. The Skins scored 17.Dallas gave up 27, 24 and 34 points to other teams. The Skins scored 16.Washington is 20th in scoring offense. Rex Grossman is one of the worst starting QBs in the league.

Sounds like the same thing you could have said about Pittsburgh and Big Ben for the last, I dunno, 6 years or so and that's worked out fine.

Let's try to tone down the ridiculousness some.

 

[SacramentoBob]

GG Rex.