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The 100 Greatest American political figures of the modern era: #1. Franklin D Roosevelt (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
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timschochet
Footballguy
11. Rush Limbaugh
Women should not be allowed on juries where the accused is a stud.
The late Rush Limbaugh was the founder of modern day right wing media, as well as the most influential radio personality of all time (with all apologies to Walter Winchell and Howard Stern).
I’m not going to argue that if Rush had never lived, we would not have today a powerful right wing media pushing an alternative to the mainstream media and influencing millions of conservatives nationwide. There are other figures, some of them already on this list, who played a significant role in this phenomenon. But none as important as Rush.
Women should not be allowed on juries where the accused is a stud.
The late Rush Limbaugh was the founder of modern day right wing media, as well as the most influential radio personality of all time (with all apologies to Walter Winchell and Howard Stern).
I’m not going to argue that if Rush had never lived, we would not have today a powerful right wing media pushing an alternative to the mainstream media and influencing millions of conservatives nationwide. There are other figures, some of them already on this list, who played a significant role in this phenomenon. But none as important as Rush.
FairWarning
Footballguy
His show was in most every little podunk market, which really helped the conservative voice. No liberal voice was close to that. All I can really think of it NPR radio, but they don’t have the reach that Rush had.
Herb
Footballguy
Rush was remarkable. He's the single largest reason that rural America is now deep red, IMO. Like FairWarning said, he was on in every tiny little market.
I remember a time when farmers tended to vote Democratic; it'll be decades before that will happen again, if ever. Rush successfully managed to convince millions of people that liberals were the enemy, that they hated everything about America, and they especially hated the dittoheads, his condescending name for his listeners. He was terribly misogynistic, especially early in his career, and much of what he espoused were oversimplified distortions of facts or just flat out lies. No single person is more responsible for the division and hyper-partisanship of today than Rush. He gleefully stoked those grievances and differences for so many years that we now live in a country where a significant percentage of citizens believe that members of a rival political party are Satanic, child-grooming pedophiles, that revered and beloved American institutions like the news media, acadamia and the entertainment industry were all in cahoots together to destroy America. That doesn't happen without Rush.
He was extremely intelligent and incredibly manipulative with his language and pulled tens of millions of decent, patriotic Americans into a web of lies from which they will never escape.
Quite the legacy. RIP.
I remember a time when farmers tended to vote Democratic; it'll be decades before that will happen again, if ever. Rush successfully managed to convince millions of people that liberals were the enemy, that they hated everything about America, and they especially hated the dittoheads, his condescending name for his listeners. He was terribly misogynistic, especially early in his career, and much of what he espoused were oversimplified distortions of facts or just flat out lies. No single person is more responsible for the division and hyper-partisanship of today than Rush. He gleefully stoked those grievances and differences for so many years that we now live in a country where a significant percentage of citizens believe that members of a rival political party are Satanic, child-grooming pedophiles, that revered and beloved American institutions like the news media, acadamia and the entertainment industry were all in cahoots together to destroy America. That doesn't happen without Rush.
He was extremely intelligent and incredibly manipulative with his language and pulled tens of millions of decent, patriotic Americans into a web of lies from which they will never escape.
Quite the legacy. RIP.
rockaction
Footballguy
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Philo Beddoe
Footballguy
I’m assuming he copied and pasted it from some rando and only proofed the first half of it."revered and beloved...news media"
And don't get me started on those "acadamia" nuts.
Philo Beddoe
Footballguy
Remember when Bryant Gumbel blamed the Oklahoma City bombing on Rush?
Herb
Footballguy
When exactly did the established news media in this country begin to lose its credibility in your estimation?"revered and beloved...news media"
And don't get me started on those "acadamia" nuts.
Herb
Footballguy
No. Obviously Rush didn't plan or help carry out the attack. But the garbage that he spewed onto the airwaves could very possibly have played a part in the radicalization of the individuals that did.
rockaction
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Well before then. Joe McCarthy attacked the liberal media as early as 1949.
Rush, however, was one of those responsible for taking this position to much greater extremes due to his use of populism.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Great post. Everyone always notes Fox News but people don't drive around all day while watching cable TV. The dying media named radio (AM no less) was what made the biggest difference. And Rush was the #1 voice of that medium.
timschochet
Footballguy
10. Lyndon Johnson
Yeaterday is not ours to recover, but tomorrow is ours to win our lose.
My top ten of the greatest modern era political figures begins with arguably the greatest politician who ever lived. LBJ understood how to get things done. Facing a much more volatile senate than his predecessors (particularly FDR, whom in terms of nation changing legislation is really the only man he can reasonably be compared to) he still managed to get passed, mainly by twisting arms, the Civil Rights Act, Medicare, and the rest of the Great Society.
For these accomplishments LBJ should be even higher on this list but of course there are drawbacks as well: he was a corrupt, mean-spirited, vindictive man, easily one of the biggest #######s who ever worked in the Oval Office. And then of course there’s that whole little Vietnam War thing. So I’ll just place him at #10 and move on…
Yeaterday is not ours to recover, but tomorrow is ours to win our lose.
My top ten of the greatest modern era political figures begins with arguably the greatest politician who ever lived. LBJ understood how to get things done. Facing a much more volatile senate than his predecessors (particularly FDR, whom in terms of nation changing legislation is really the only man he can reasonably be compared to) he still managed to get passed, mainly by twisting arms, the Civil Rights Act, Medicare, and the rest of the Great Society.
For these accomplishments LBJ should be even higher on this list but of course there are drawbacks as well: he was a corrupt, mean-spirited, vindictive man, easily one of the biggest #######s who ever worked in the Oval Office. And then of course there’s that whole little Vietnam War thing. So I’ll just place him at #10 and move on…
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I might have put LBJ even higher than this, but like you said, any evaluation of Johnson has to include Vietnam. On reflection, I guess his style of doing business doesn't translate very well to 2022, but a) it was a different era and b) a lot of arm-twisting still takes place but isn't quite so public or colorful.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
If your list was about accomplishing things that left America a better place than this would lower Johnson's rating, but considering everyone else on this list is being judged on influence or effect or such this would seem to be reason to push Johnson higher, not lower. If greatness = good on this list about half of those on it would go away. And while Vietnam certainly curtailed Johnson's personal influence, the influence of Vietnam is still going on and on.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
So who are still locks for this thing who are sitting out there? I figure MLK, FDR, Reagan, and Nixon are sure things. (I wouldn't have put Nixon this high, but it's not my list).
Actually, Lee Atwater has to be a lock too. Maybe I'm just not seeing him on the list.
Actually, Lee Atwater has to be a lock too. Maybe I'm just not seeing him on the list.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I know Truman and JFK are probably like 99% likely to be named soon, but they're just way too high. They're closer to being off the list than they are to the top 10. IMO. Again, not my list.
Actually I guess those two guys did have singular moments of greatness (dropping the bomb, Cuban missile crisis) that were so impactful that they're hard to evaluate by normal metrics. Hillary Clinton was a compiler who didn't actually do anything. Truman did one thing. I can see why Tim might rank them very highly despite very short careers. The Terrell Davis's of this list.
Actually I guess those two guys did have singular moments of greatness (dropping the bomb, Cuban missile crisis) that were so impactful that they're hard to evaluate by normal metrics. Hillary Clinton was a compiler who didn't actually do anything. Truman did one thing. I can see why Tim might rank them very highly despite very short careers. The Terrell Davis's of this list.
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Rich Conway
Footballguy
Seems like step one is figure out which Presidents since the cutoff date haven't been named yet, but I haven't followed closely enough to do that. MLK is a good call. Any SCOTUS justices a possibility?
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I think once we're past Earl Warren, we're done with SCOTUS. Thurgood Marshall has also already appeared.
quick-hands
Footballguy
quick-hands
Footballguy
It was Janet Reno's fault along with Bill Clinton as well as the ATF.Herb said:
quick-hands
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Given your wide knowledge of politics I’m a bit disappointed by this assessment. I strongly disagree with it and I will address it at length.
timschochet
Footballguy
Lee Atwater was someone I simply forgot about. Mea culpa. Yes he belongs on the list, somewhere in the 40s. It was an error. There are probably a few others.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Understood. I just noticed that there was a "political operative" category in play here, and it seems to me that Lee Atwater is probably the most influential one of those guys in my lifetime. Not sure it's the most noble calling in the world, but you know what I mean.
whoknew
Footballguy
Couldn't you make the argument that JFK also:
1) Had a profound impact on young people at the time that carries through to this day; and
2) Started the peace corps, which has been a very influential worldwide organization.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Eh. Maybe this is unfair to JFK because it's not his fault that he got assassinated and a bunch of boomer historians overinflated his image, but neither of things you mentioned is very important compared to the stuff that other people on this list accomplished.
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Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
But how much of what was accomplished in the years shortly after his assassination don't happen without the martyred president? (Much of it being stuff that you have spent a lifetime arguing against.)
I mean Tim has a strange definition of "greatness" at play here, but isn't a good deal of JFK's greatness in this context because a mourning nation acted to pass much of his legislative agenda (and then some) to honor him. And that stuff is very important
timschochet
Footballguy
9. Eleanor Roosevelt
Do one thing every day that scares you.
She remains the single most important woman in modern day American political history, and a great deal of this is her performance following her husband’s death and her time as First Lady. Eleanor became the world’s champion for the United Nations, for globalism and internationalism. She believed that trying to solve the world’s most pressing issues such as poverty, starvation, and disease, was vital to America’s security. Her movement was largely successful; as much as any single person she helped create the modern age that so many nationalists and nativists despise.
Do one thing every day that scares you.
She remains the single most important woman in modern day American political history, and a great deal of this is her performance following her husband’s death and her time as First Lady. Eleanor became the world’s champion for the United Nations, for globalism and internationalism. She believed that trying to solve the world’s most pressing issues such as poverty, starvation, and disease, was vital to America’s security. Her movement was largely successful; as much as any single person she helped create the modern age that so many nationalists and nativists despise.
timschochet
Footballguy
8. Barack Obama
Why can’t I just eat my waffle?
Apologies to all for neglecting this list but I was out of the country for a few weeks.
If Barack Obama’s only accomplishment was that he was our first black President, that would probably be enough in itself to justify a high placement on this list and there is little more I need write. But of course there is Obamacare: a profound change to our healthcare system. Not quite as important as Medicare or Social Security but still pretty major. It’s worth noting than no other Democratic President was able to enact any significant medical legislation of this kind though many tried.
Obama’s other achievements have been less spectacular and more equivocal. Most of his foreign policy moves were reversed by Trump. To the regret of many liberals such as myself, he did not move aggressively enough on climate change or immigration (and with regard to the latter some of his actions were decidedly inhumane and foreshadowed even worse behavior by his replacement.) Most importantly it must be said that many of those who supported Obama from the outset believed that his presidency would usher in a new America, finally free of racial discord and so many of the divisions that defined us in the last century. Sadly this has not come to pass.
Why can’t I just eat my waffle?
Apologies to all for neglecting this list but I was out of the country for a few weeks.
If Barack Obama’s only accomplishment was that he was our first black President, that would probably be enough in itself to justify a high placement on this list and there is little more I need write. But of course there is Obamacare: a profound change to our healthcare system. Not quite as important as Medicare or Social Security but still pretty major. It’s worth noting than no other Democratic President was able to enact any significant medical legislation of this kind though many tried.
Obama’s other achievements have been less spectacular and more equivocal. Most of his foreign policy moves were reversed by Trump. To the regret of many liberals such as myself, he did not move aggressively enough on climate change or immigration (and with regard to the latter some of his actions were decidedly inhumane and foreshadowed even worse behavior by his replacement.) Most importantly it must be said that many of those who supported Obama from the outset believed that his presidency would usher in a new America, finally free of racial discord and so many of the divisions that defined us in the last century. Sadly this has not come to pass.
timschochet
Footballguy
7. Richard Nixon
Never allow yourself to feel defeated.
For me, Richard Nixon is probably the single most fascinating American politician on this list. Even prior to his election as President, he was center stage for a wide number of issues that were critical to this nation’s post war history, and he helped shape most of them. (His 1960s book about this, Six Crisis, which covers events from Algier Hiss to the Checkers Speech to the debate with Khrushchev to the rebellion in Venezuela, is a great read.) From the start a polarizing figure, Nixon became President during the most polarizing time in our history since the Civil War.
His presidency was largely a liberal one, from price controls to the establishment of the EPA to detente with Russia, winding down and ending the Vietnam War, and of course going to China. All of which was incredibly consequential. Unfortunately Nixon, one of our most able and intelligent politicians (quite the opposite in every way to the inept Donald Trump which he is inevitably compared to) was also paranoid, and this paranoia, coupled with a willingness to ignore the law, led to his downfall. Which is too bad. For the most part he was a great patriot and leader who served his nation well IMO.
Never allow yourself to feel defeated.
For me, Richard Nixon is probably the single most fascinating American politician on this list. Even prior to his election as President, he was center stage for a wide number of issues that were critical to this nation’s post war history, and he helped shape most of them. (His 1960s book about this, Six Crisis, which covers events from Algier Hiss to the Checkers Speech to the debate with Khrushchev to the rebellion in Venezuela, is a great read.) From the start a polarizing figure, Nixon became President during the most polarizing time in our history since the Civil War.
His presidency was largely a liberal one, from price controls to the establishment of the EPA to detente with Russia, winding down and ending the Vietnam War, and of course going to China. All of which was incredibly consequential. Unfortunately Nixon, one of our most able and intelligent politicians (quite the opposite in every way to the inept Donald Trump which he is inevitably compared to) was also paranoid, and this paranoia, coupled with a willingness to ignore the law, led to his downfall. Which is too bad. For the most part he was a great patriot and leader who served his nation well IMO.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I liked Obama, but putting him in the top 10 seems kind of weird. Perfectly fine president, but nothing to write home about.
timschochet
Footballguy
He was the first black President. That’s my main reasoning for putting him in the top ten. Perhaps in 50 years from now when we have had several minority Presidents it won’t be as big a deal. On the other hand, Jackie Robinson continues to make every list of all time baseball players, and not because of his stats.
FairWarning
Footballguy
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Jackie was a legit Hall of Famer on stats alone, even without considering that he didn't play in MLB for much of his prime.
timschochet
Footballguy
Sure. He absolutely belongs in the Hall of Fame no question. But does he belong on nearly every list of the top 100 greatest players? Not on stats alone he doesn’t. He is there because of his achievement. Rightfully so IMO. I have used the same argument for ranking Obama.
Perfect timing with the SC decision on the EPA. The Clean Air Act is estimated to have saved 100s of thousand lives. Annually.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
I don't know. He's tied for 151 on career WAR, per the link below. If we included his likely WAR stats from age 21-27, when he wasn't playing MLB, he would be comfortably within the top 100.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_career.shtml
Mister CIA
Footballguy
I've got five presidents, a senator, and a preacher left on the board, and I'm not so sure the senator will make the final cut.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Obvious miss is Frank Rizzo.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I figured Obama was a lock for the top 5, and I would have had zero argument with it. The significance of him being elected president cannot be overstated.
timschochet
Footballguy
6. John F. Kennedy
Victory has a thousand fathers, but defeat is an orphan.
JFK is one of those leaders in our history whose ability to inspire Americans was more important than his actual policies. There is only a small handful of these types and more than one will be found towards the top of this list.
That is not to diminish JFK’s achievements as President. The Cuban Missile Crisis, fighting for Civil Rights, the New Frontier, were all important accomplishments. The book The 100 Most Important People of All Time included JFK for the sole reason that he instituted the space program and thus compared him to Isabella sanctioning Columbus.
Still, JFK is mainly here because his speeches and persona changed the nation, renewed its confidence, and ushered in an era of youth and resilience.
Victory has a thousand fathers, but defeat is an orphan.
JFK is one of those leaders in our history whose ability to inspire Americans was more important than his actual policies. There is only a small handful of these types and more than one will be found towards the top of this list.
That is not to diminish JFK’s achievements as President. The Cuban Missile Crisis, fighting for Civil Rights, the New Frontier, were all important accomplishments. The book The 100 Most Important People of All Time included JFK for the sole reason that he instituted the space program and thus compared him to Isabella sanctioning Columbus.
Still, JFK is mainly here because his speeches and persona changed the nation, renewed its confidence, and ushered in an era of youth and resilience.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
He also fits our current preference for style over substance.
timschochet
Footballguy
5. Ronald Reagan
We can’t help everyone, but everyone can help someone.
When Ronald Reagan began his political career in the early 1960s it was as an angry far rightist: his initial issue was Medicare and how it would quickly lead to a Communist takeover of the USA. Then as the 60s produced both student protests and racial riots, Reagan added populism, capitalizing on the public’s fears by promising to promote law and order. That got him the governorship of California, and he parlayed that role into national recognition through several highly publicized confrontations with students and hippies, particularly at Berkeley. Reagan then ran for President in 1968 and lost. Undaunted, he ran for President again in 1976…and lost. Both times the GOP establishment felt he was too angry, too far to the right. And then came 1980.
At which point Reagan’s public persona underwent a remarkable transformation. Except it wasn’t really any change at all, since beneath his apparent anger Reagan had always been a generally warm and optimistic person who didn’t believe ih divisiveness. And this came out in the 1980 campaign. Rather than attacking liberalism and all those who disagreed with him, Reagan spoke about American renewal, greatness, and “the shining city on the hill.” He became the most inspirational politician since JFK, and some of his speeches at the time rivaled Winston Churchill in their ability to move the public.
As President, Reagan governed much as he campaigned in 1980. And that’s why he remains one of our most revered Presidents, even by someone like me who disagreed with a majority of his policies. Because he was bigger than those policies: he inspired us. That’s why he merits such a high spot on this list.
We can’t help everyone, but everyone can help someone.
When Ronald Reagan began his political career in the early 1960s it was as an angry far rightist: his initial issue was Medicare and how it would quickly lead to a Communist takeover of the USA. Then as the 60s produced both student protests and racial riots, Reagan added populism, capitalizing on the public’s fears by promising to promote law and order. That got him the governorship of California, and he parlayed that role into national recognition through several highly publicized confrontations with students and hippies, particularly at Berkeley. Reagan then ran for President in 1968 and lost. Undaunted, he ran for President again in 1976…and lost. Both times the GOP establishment felt he was too angry, too far to the right. And then came 1980.
At which point Reagan’s public persona underwent a remarkable transformation. Except it wasn’t really any change at all, since beneath his apparent anger Reagan had always been a generally warm and optimistic person who didn’t believe ih divisiveness. And this came out in the 1980 campaign. Rather than attacking liberalism and all those who disagreed with him, Reagan spoke about American renewal, greatness, and “the shining city on the hill.” He became the most inspirational politician since JFK, and some of his speeches at the time rivaled Winston Churchill in their ability to move the public.
As President, Reagan governed much as he campaigned in 1980. And that’s why he remains one of our most revered Presidents, even by someone like me who disagreed with a majority of his policies. Because he was bigger than those policies: he inspired us. That’s why he merits such a high spot on this list.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
Nice summary.
Although you alluded to it briefly, Reagan's defining political issue IMO was anti-communism/socialism. Which first manifested itself fighting against communist fears within the Screen Actor's Guild. Ultimately this strengthened into such resolve that it helped him become the perfect man at the perfect time in history to accelerate the downfall of the Soviet Union and win the Cold War.
And while there is lots of discussion these days about how America is not great anymore from a social and economic and world affairs standpoint, we were actually at a lower point in 1980 along all three dimensions. When Reagan took office, America was suffering from its lowest morale since before WWII due to the post-Vietnam shame, 60's civil unrest hangover, elevated inflation for nearly a decade (include double digits twice for at least a year), embarrassment of Iran hostages and its ill-fated helicopter rescue crash that shone a bright spotlight on American military incompetence, etc.
However, by the end of Reagan's second term, the U.S. was completely transformed along all three dimensions of social, economic and world affairs, with his presidency creating the foundation for 30 straight years of global stability and economic prosperity never before seen.
I could see FDR as a "greater" political figure if he is considered part of the "modern era." But no one else eclipses Reagan based on his resume of accomplishments and leadership during a perilous time when the Cold War still could have gone either way.
Best Reagan quote:
Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it
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timschochet
Footballguy
Obviously I disagree with your comment that nobody eclipses Reagan, since I am ranking 4 persons above him. But otherwise I am mostly on board with your post.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
At least for me, FDR and Reagan are easily the top two presidents of the twentieth century, in terms of impact and overall success. Personally I think there's a fairly large gap between those two and whoever #3 would be (probably Eisenhower but I could be talked into several different directions here).
