The "2 Down MLB's" (1 Viewer)

[Rovers]

Had a discussion with a bud on this.... and we didn't come to any sort of agreement, either on which NFL MLB's are the dreaded "2 down linebackers", or, for that matter, what their value is in FF.

I see in one thread, there is some disagreement on whether or not Trotter plays in the nickel this year.... if he doesn't, how big is the dip in his FF production?

Hartwell and Sirmon are the two that I know are 2 down backers, and because of that, they are barely decent as bye week fillers in a start 3 league, even though they are both MLB's. Hodge could make this list too. With Hawk and Barnett around, I went ahead and traded Hodge.... I just don't like ANY 2 down LB's, and I don't see Hodge as anything more than that for a long time to come in GB.

So, where do the 2 down LB's fall on value and draft charts? How much in the way of FF points would Trotter lose if he gets removed in the nickel? Is there even ONE two down LB worth starting on a weekly basis?

 

[Jene Bramel]

I think you hit the major trouble spots.

Peter Sirmon, Ed Hartwell, Jeremiah Trotter are the established guys who aren't likely to see the field in passing situations. It's difficult to project what will happen in Arizona, New Orleans, and Green Bay just yet.

But, depending on your scoring system, some of these guys will still have value. Trotter has seen little time in the nickel in recent years, but is such an aggressive force in the middle of a good scheme that he's put up top 20 numbers in the past. He'll see some decline in numbers if he's out of the nickel altogether, but I think his value may be tied to how Matt McCoy performs at the Will this year. The Eagles have been quoted as saying that Barber will play the middle in nickel situations this year. That's, as always, dependent on his health and McCoy showing his offseason improvement was legit.

Hartwell is an enigma. He could have Trotter-esque value, but he sure didn't look capable of that in 2005 before he was injured. I wouldn't want much to do with Sirmon, unless Thornton plays his way out of the nickel packages as he did in Indy.

Hodge will be an interesting case. He could have a Trotter-like impact on the running game for the Packers in a scheme designed to funnel plays to the middle backer. But if Hawk is everything that some feel he may be, his production on running downs could blunt Hodge's numbers. Without any real information to back this assertion up, I think Hodge (if/when he becomes the MLB) ends up in the mid twenties long-term as a "two-down" player. Not quite what Trotter has been able to accomplish, but capable of the same upside.

 

[Rovers]

Thanks, Jene. If Hodge had landed elsewhere, I never would have traded him. However, with both Hartwell and Sirmon on that same roster.... I am definitely developing a strong bias against any LB that doesn't play the nickel, even the MLB's. I am hoping that both Sirmon and Hartwell get off to hot starts.... and then I'll dump them for draft picks. I'd rather have a SLB that stays on the field than any "2 down LB" across the board. Of course, situational cicumstances makes me hedge a bit there, but only in a minimal way.

 

[Beaumont]

The Minny MLB may or may not be a 2-downer ... same with Houston, Detroit and Oakland ...

 

[Jene Bramel]

The Minny MLB may or may not be a 2-downer ...

You may be right. Leber is just average in coverage, but that's still better than the three headed Henderson/Harris/Thomas monster.ETA: Houston, too, is up in the air. I think Bailey can handle the nickel duties fine. And, like Norton, I wouldn't be shocked if the Raiders end up back in the Big Nickel while they try to coach up Thomas Howard or Darnell Bing enough to play. In which case, you might see Gibson, Huff, and Schweigert more than a second linebacker...

Quite a few messes at linebacker with all the turnover in the league. for camps to begin.

 

[Rovers]

Forgot about those teams, Houston especially.... no way Cowart is out there in the nickel.

I'd love to find a way to cull out the stats for these 2 down guys, and see what they did historically.

How much of last year did Trotter play all "3 downs"? Anyone have an idea (not looing for a hard number, a good guess is fine)?

 

[Beaumont]

Forgot about those teams, Houston especially.... no way Cowart is out there in the nickel.

I'd love to find a way to cull out the stats for these 2 down guys, and see what they did historically.

How much of last year did Trotter play all "3 downs"? Anyone have an idea (not looing for a hard number, a good guess is fine)?

I recall pre-season they talked him up about staying in on the nickel, but did not actually watch the games to see how much he stayed in ...

 

[Jene Bramel]

How much of last year did Trotter play all "3 downs"? Anyone have an idea (not looing for a hard number, a good guess is fine)?

Seen a lot of discrepancy in my research here. To my knowledge, Mark Simoneau was a frequent nickel backer and Dhani Jones didn't leave the field very often on third downs. Both are much better in coverage than Trotter. But I've seen a couple of sources (including a quote from Joe Gibbs - but what does he know anyway ) note that Trotter played a number of snaps in the nickel.

 

[Biabreakable]

I could be wrong about this but Al Wilsons tackles seem to be worse when DJ and Gold are both playing.

They were great in 2004 when Gold was in Tampa Bay then dropped a ton when he returned to Denver.

Can anyone who watched a lot of Denver games tell us if Wilson was used in the nikcle package?

 

[Tick]

I wouldn't be shocked if the Raiders end up back in the Big Nickel while they try to coach up Thomas Howard or Darnell Bing enough to play. In which case, you might see Gibson, Huff, and Schweigert more than a second linebacker...

I've been wondering if they're planning to play it long-term. Bing seems like a perfect fit for a fifth DB, and they don't seem to have three useful LBs until Howard develops.

 

[Jene Bramel]

I wouldn't be shocked if the Raiders end up back in the Big Nickel while they try to coach up Thomas Howard or Darnell Bing enough to play.  In which case, you might see Gibson, Huff, and Schweigert more than a second linebacker...

I've been wondering if they're planning to play it long-term. Bing seems like a perfect fit for a fifth DB, and they don't seem to have three useful LBs until Howard develops.

I can't imagine that the Raiders would want to stay in this defense against backs like LJ and LT a couple of times a season. I think the last part of your post is the issue - last year the LB corps was as crappy a unit as any in the league, even the Pats safeties - and it'll take some coaching to get either Bing or Howard on the field as a legitimate backer this year.