The Alt-Right Movement: a pole (1 Viewer)

[mr. furley]

 Mainstream media seems to want to be first and big with a story, not accurate.

there are a lot more reasons to this than "liberal media bias".  things like business always needing to turn an ever increasing profit, human nature wanting to peer in on the sensational, more and more varied options reporting "news".

that's just scratching the surface

 

[the moops]

There are some who would have you believe that a consequence (and possibly an intention) of this bill is to be able to prosecute people for not addressing others using their preferred gender pronoun.

Sounds eerily similar to how all churches are now forced to marry gay people.

 

[mr. furley]

i will say this, when discussing politics/the world/religion/reality with someone it's generally not difficult to determine if someone leans left or right based solely on the arguments used and reasoning (or lack thereof) presented.

people who lean left tend to rely on factually based arguments built on references and examples. right leaning people tend to lean on feeling. 

i have my opinion on which is better for me personally but having been married going on 10 years i've come to realize that doesn't make me more correct.

 

[The Duff Man]

I think the alt right is opposed to poles.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

people who lean left tend to rely on factually based arguments built on references and examples. right leaning people tend to lean on feeling. 

Don't confuse Trump supporters with "right leaning people."  Plenty of solid right-leaning people that rely on facts more than feeling -- @IvanKaramazov, @Rich Conway, @RedmondLonghorn.  None of them like Trump though. 

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

Don't confuse Trump supporters with "right leaning people."  Plenty of solid right-leaning people that rely on facts more than feeling -- @IvanKaramazov, @Rich Conway, @RedmondLonghorn.  None of them like Trump though. 

Thanks for saying that. 

I don't really consider myself "right leaning" though. I am basically perpendicular to that entire construct.

 

[mr. furley]

Don't confuse Trump supporters with "right leaning people."  Plenty of solid right-leaning people that rely on facts more than feeling -- @IvanKaramazov, @Rich Conway, @RedmondLonghorn.  None of them like Trump though. 

yeah, definitely not lumping them all together. just throwing my anecdotal experience out there. i don't really pay much attention to political affiliation here ... except for the wackos who make it really obvious.

 

[Sweet J]

The university "safe space" movement comes to mind.

Jesus, you mean a bunch of whiny millennials who are being catered to by some university officials (while being NOT-catered to by others)?  THAT'S you're example of an "anti-free speech movement"?  Cry me an effing river.

The alt right "movement" is a sea of sludge and hate disguising itself and pretending to be an advocate in the same way that the "men's movement" does, attacking and going after people who is perceived to be against them.  No thanks.

I will fight to the bitter end any government attempt to limit free speech, even free speech that I despise.  But show me some real attempt to limit, and show me some reasonable response to it, rather than racist garbage. 

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

people who lean left tend to rely on factually based arguments built on references and examples. right leaning people tend to lean on feeling. 

I can think of lots of counter-examples to this contention. 

That doesn't mean it is completely wrong, I just don't think it is as clear cut as you think it is.

 

[Sweet J]

Nope. I think this is a lot of talk about nothing really. Your average American is Internet savvy enough to know a solid source from a fake one. The idea that Facebook fake news links somehow swayed the election is hard for me to believe. My bigger concern here is platforms like Twitter and Facebook shutting down any ideas that don't conform to their views. Or worse yet, they cave to pressure from people that don't agree with the ideas of others.

Are you out of your god-forsaken mind?  There is a reason no sane person enters the comments section of newspaper articles or reads Yelp reviews:  People, most people, are blazing morans.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

Jesus, you mean a bunch of whiny millennials who are being catered to by some university officials (while being NOT-catered to by others)?  THAT'S you're example of an "anti-free speech movement"?  Cry me an effing river.

The alt right "movement" is a sea of sludge and hate disguising itself and pretending to be an advocate in the same way that the "men's movement" does, attacking and going after people who is perceived to be against them.  No thanks.

I will fight to the bitter end any government attempt to limit free speech, even free speech that I despise.  But show me some real attempt to limit, and show me some reasonable response to it, rather than racist garbage. 

I am not as concerned by the whiny millennials as I am by the college administrators who won't tell them "No" but instead cater to them by codifying restrictions on free speech into university codes of conduct, etc..

I actually believe stuff like that is a far larger threat than a handful of fringe idiots on the internet.

 

[roadkill1292]

Are you out of your god-forsaken mind?  There is a reason no sane person enters the comments section of newspaper articles or reads Yelp reviews:  People, most people, are blazing morans.

Morans yesterday, morans today, morans tamarrow.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

Are you out of your god-forsaken mind?  There is a reason no sane person enters the comments section of newspaper articles or reads Yelp reviews:  People, most people, are blazing morans.

"I gave Franklin's BBQ one star because they don't have any vegan options on the menu. The line was also way too long. I left without eating anything."

 

[Sweet J]

There are more far-left lunatics pretending to be alt-right than there are on the actual alt-right 

I'm sure by now you've seen the video of the self-proclaimed leader of the alt-right at a DC conference a couple days ago giving a speech that was essentially a love letter to Nazis.  And people in the audience with their arm up in a salute yelling "heil victory" and "heil trump."

Are those people alt-right?

Are they neo nazis?

Are they white supremacists? 

Is there a difference between "white nationalist" and "white supremacist? 

I'll hang up and listen. 

 

[Smoo]

The alt right regressive left "movement" is a sea of sludge and hate disguising itself and pretending to be an advocate in the same way that the "men's safe space movement" does, attacking and going after people who is perceived to be against them.  No thanks.

Fixed that for you.

 

[mr. furley]

I can think of lots of counter-examples to this contention. 

That doesn't mean it is completely wrong, I just don't think it is as clear cut as you think it is.

i'm a pretty grey area guy. definitely not presenting as a black/white argument.  just how it seems without spending a bunch of time breaking down the specifics and getting in to a days long debate about it.

 

[Dickies]

From the research I have done on them I voted that I do not support the movement in anyway.  I am white and voted that under 25% of fellow white people support them.  

All that said, I admit that I may not be fully educated on them and there may be something in there that I agree with, but from what I've seen it is 99% nonsense.

 

[Abrantes]

This is that cult obsessed with 'cucks', right?

 

[General Malaise]

Sorry, I've been away. Has the whole Bill C-16 (Canada) thing been covered here at all? I'm still trying to parse out who's right and who's wrong among all the rhetoric around it, but there are some who would cite this as a concrete example of the left advancing an anti-free-speech agenda via the criminal code.

My favorite thing to come from Canada in quite some time is this rap song called "Gender Bender".  It's up there with Gordon Lightfoot, Labatts and Curling, which I'm not sure is Canadian, but I'm going to give it to you.  Favourite Winter Olympic Sport for me.

 

[Sweet J]

Fixed that for you.

I can actually dig it, to some extent.  But only somewhat.  If the "alt right" stayed on the fringes much like the "regressive left," I might actually be ok with comparing them.  Or the whole "white nationalist" thing.  

Again, I fully support the white nationalist neo nazi's having a clear and open platform to spew their filth. More people should hear what they have to say, and hear what the "progressive left" has to say, and make an informed opinion. 

 

[General Malaise]

This is that cult obsessed with 'cucks', right?

They also tend to like Heiling

 

[Sweet J]

This is that cult obsessed with 'cucks', right?

I've heard that term from the nazi speech over the weekend in DC, I think.  What does it mean, exactly? 

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

I've heard that term from the nazi speech over the weekend in DC, I think.  What does it mean, exactly? 

Comes from porn -- cuckolds.  Letting your wife get railed by another dude.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

It's pretty exciting to have Smoo back.

 

[Sweet J]

Comes from porn -- cuckolds.  Letting your wife get railed by another dude.

hmmmm . . . so another way of saying that the men on the left are p^ssies, weak, ineffectual, etc.?  I see. 

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

hmmmm . . . so another way of saying that the men on the left are p^ssies, weak, ineffectual, etc.?  I see. 

And they wear v-neck sweaters.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

hmmmm . . . so another way of saying that the men on the left are p^ssies, weak, ineffectual, etc.?  I see. 

No, it's not generally a term for people on the left.  It's for establishment Republicans.  John Boehner was a cuck, Eric Cantor was a cuck, Paul Ryan is a cuck, etc.

 

[mr. furley]

https://thinkprogress.org/thinkprogress-alt-right-policy-b04fd141d8d4#.a2vfwntjw

You can learn everything you need to know about the “alt-right” by looking at the man who popularized its name. Credit goes to Richard Spencer, head of the white supremacist National Policy Institute (NPI), and one of the country’s leading contemporary advocates of ideological racism.

The weekend before Thanksgiving, Spencer keynoted an NPI conference in Washington, D.C. Over the course of his speech, he approvingly quoted Nazi propaganda, said that the United States is meant to be a “white country,” and suggested that many political commentators are “soulless golem” controlled by Jewish media interests.

That, in a nutshell, is the face of the so-called alt-right. As Spencer himself has said, the core of alt-right ideology is the preservation of “white identity.”

So you might wonder what, if anything, distinguishes the alt-right from more hidebound racist movements such as the American Nazi Party and the Ku Klux Klan. The answer is very little, except for a bit of savvy branding and a fondness for ironic Twitter memes. Spencer and his ilk are essentially  standard-issue white supremacists who discovered a clever way to make themselves appear more innocuous — even a little hip.

The ploy worked. News outlets such as CNN and the New York Times, always a little shy when it comes to identifying racism by its true name, have taken to using “alt-right” in headlines instead. The term is flexible enough that Steve Bannon, a top adviser to President-elect Donald Trump, can boast that he turned Breitbart News into “a platform for the alt-right” while simultaneously denying any association with white nationalist movements. Richard Spencer’s marketing campaign has made it possible for leading conservative figures to make common cause with neo-Nazis and Klansmen while dodging any accusations of personal racism.

Spencer and Bannon are of course free to describe themselves however they’d like, but journalists are not obliged to uncritically accept their framing. A reporter’s job is to describe the world as it is, with clarity and accuracy. Use of the term “alt-right,” by concealing overt racism, makes that job harder.

With that in mind, ThinkProgress will no longer treat “alt-right” as an accurate descriptor of either a movement or its members. We will only use the name when quoting others. When appending our own description to men like 

Spencer and groups like NPI, we will use terms we consider more accurate, such as “white nationalist” or “white supremacist.”

“White nationalist” refers to a specific ideology held by many of those who adopt the “alt-right” label. A white nationalist is someone who believes the United States should be governed by and for white people, and that national policy should radically advance white interests. White supremacists are a broader and more inchoate group, comprised of those who believe in the innate superiority of white people.

We will describe people and movements as neo-Nazis only when they identify as such, or adopt important aspects of Nazi rhetoric and iconography.

The point here is not to call people names, but simply to describe them as they are. We won’t do racists’ public relations work for them. Nor should other news outlets.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I'm sure by now you've seen the video of the self-proclaimed leader of the alt-right at a DC conference a couple days ago giving a speech that was essentially a love letter to Nazis.  And people in the audience with their arm up in a salute yelling "heil victory" and "heil trump."

Are those people alt-right?

Are they neo nazis?

Are they white supremacists? 

"Alt-Right" sounds better than "Nazi" or "Klan".

Much like XFINITY sounds better than Comcast.

 

[General Malaise]

"Alt-Right" sounds better than "Nazi" or "Klan".

Much like XFINITY sounds better than Comcast.

 

[massraider]

"Alt-Right" sounds better than "Nazi" or "Klan".

Much like XFINITY sounds better than Comcast.

Probably the best comparison ever made in the history of the internet.  

 

[Thorn]

Comes from porn -- cuckolds.  Letting your wife get railed by another dude.

First known usage of cuckold: 13th century.

 

[Sammy3469]

First known usage of cuckold: 13th century.

Paul Ryan is Hoddydoddy.  Pretty sure you need a top hat, monocle, and a snifter of brandy to say that.  

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

First known usage of cuckold: 13th century.

I didn't say porn made it up but I'm pretty sure that's where these geniuses got it from.

 

[sublimeone]

I'm sure by now you've seen the video of the self-proclaimed leader of the alt-right at a DC conference a couple days ago giving a speech that was essentially a love letter to Nazis.  And people in the audience with their arm up in a salute yelling "heil victory" and "heil trump."

Are those people alt-right?

Are they neo nazis?

Are they white supremacists? 

Is there a difference between "white nationalist" and "white supremacist? 

I'll hang up and listen. 

I haven't actually. Care to provide a link?

 

[Smoo]

It's pretty exciting to have Smoo back.

That's very kind. Although I should tell you that since I've been gone Sam Harris and Dave Rubin have surpassed you on my man crush list.

 

[Dedfin]

I don't see why they don't own it.  They won, why don't they just go "Yeah, alt-right is repackaging Neo-Nazis.  So what?  We won.  This is our movement"  With all the white pride they talk about, you'd think that they'd be proud of their cause.

 

[Thorn]

i will say this, when discussing politics/the world/religion/reality with someone it's generally not difficult to determine if someone leans left or right based solely on the arguments used and reasoning (or lack thereof) presented.

people who lean left tend to rely on factually based arguments built on references and examples. right leaning people tend to lean on feeling. 

i have my opinion on which is better for me personally but having been married going on 10 years i've come to realize that doesn't make me more correct.

Hmm.  I wish you were wrong, but I think you are probably right.  Fifteen years ago, or maybe ten, I think it was the opposite.  Probably around the same time I stopped thinking of myself as Republican.

 

[Smoo]

Yeah, I prefer to dismiss the radicals nutbars and try to find the actual voices in a movement like this. When I think of "alt-right", I think of Milo Yiannopolous, Ben Shapiro, and Steven Crowder, not the armies of douchebags who worship them and give them a bad name.

I don't align myself with those three on most of the specific issues, but I do align myself pretty well with their general principles.

 

[sublimeone]

I don't see why they don't own it.  They won, why don't they just go "Yeah, alt-right is repackaging Neo-Nazis.  So what?  We won.  This is our movement"  With all the white pride they talk about, you'd think that they'd be proud of their cause.

Who exactly are you talking about?

 

[RCon]

Don't confuse Trump supporters with "right leaning people."  Plenty of solid right-leaning people that rely on facts more than feeling -- @IvanKaramazov, @Rich Conway, @RedmondLonghorn.  None of them like Trump though. 

Appreciate the shout out.  I've become more libertarian (and in some ways, even left-leaning) over time, to the point where I'm not so sure I'm right-leaning in any way at this point.  Of course, this could also be a "I didn't leave the party, the party left me" thing, too.

 

[massraider]

Who exactly are you talking about?

The alt-right.  

The repackaged racists. It's in the title of the thread.  

The speech is all over the internet, should take you about .0027 seconds to find it.

 

[Dedfin]

The alt-right.  

The repackaged racists. It's in the title of the thread.  

The speech is all over the internet, should take you about .0027 seconds to find it.

He may not look for it, so he can continue to say he never saw the video.

 

[Sweet J]

I haven't actually. Care to provide a link?

Really fascinating stuff.  I just read an article a couple weeks ago about this guy.  

Alt-Right speech

The video is embedded in the article.  I'd recommend jumping straight to the video.  It is really astounding.  That's a packed room.

20 years ago, when the kkk in some random state like North Carolina marched, it was like 8 kkk members with 14 teeth between them, along with 200 protesters.  It seemed, as far as I could tell, a dead organization.

But this. . . . I don't know what to say.  I know we generally avoid calling people Nazi's, because hyperbole.  But . . . he's a Nazi, right?  And the people in the meeting, giving the Sieg Hiel salute.  Nazis.  

If I considered myself a non-racist Trump supporter, I would be OUTRAGED by this video.  Because it would be betraying everything that I've been trying to get across to my friends.  But . . . here we are. @Smoo, if you haven't seen this video, it is just amazing.  After watching it, it does make it hard to say "i kinda like some of the things those alt-right guys do."  Isn't that like saying at least Mussolini kept the trains on time? 

 

[Sweet J]

Appreciate the shout out.  I've become more libertarian (and in some ways, even left-leaning) over time, to the point where I'm not so sure I'm right-leaning in any way at this point.  Of course, this could also be a "I didn't leave the party, the party left me" thing, too.

It's funny, I would almost say the same thing (except it would be "I've become more libertarian (and in some ways, even right-leaning) over time, to the point where I'm not so sure I'm left-leaning in any way at this point."  Edit: maybe we can meet in the middle. 

 

[Smoo]

If I considered myself a non-racist Trump supporter, I would be OUTRAGED by this video.  Because it would be betraying everything that I've been trying to get across to my friends.  But . . . here we are. @Smoo, if you haven't seen this video, it is just amazing.  After watching it, it does make it hard to say "i kinda like some of the things those alt-right guys do."  Isn't that like saying at least Mussolini kept the trains on time? 

Yeah, that's why I clarified that when I say "alt-right", I have Milo, Ben and Steve in mind, not these clowns. Ans it's what I was talking about when I said the movement had been hijacked. Maybe I have it backwards, maybe this has always been the movement and I just managed to find some of the more rational faces of it to listen to.

Either, way, those people are clearly nuts but that doesn't mean there aren't people out there with legitimate critical things to say about feminism, BLM, political correctness, Islamophobia, and free speech that are worth listening to, even if you wind up disagreeing. And that's why my answer is still "I support some aspects of the movement".

 

[massraider]

Yeah, that's why I clarified that when I say "alt-right", I have Milo, Ben and Steve in mind, not these clowns. Ans it's what I was talking about when I said the movement had been hijacked. Maybe I have it backwards, maybe this has always been the movement and I just managed to find some of the more rational faces of it to listen to.

Either, way, those people are clearly nuts but that doesn't mean there aren't people out there with legitimate critical things to say about feminism, BLM, political correctness, Islamophobia, and free speech that are worth listening to, even if you wind up disagreeing. And that's why my answer is still "I support some aspects of the movement".

If Milo is one of the more rational  faces of the alt-right, and he might be, it's a terrible, terrible movement. 

 

[Politician Spock]

"Alt-Right" sounds better than "Nazi" or "Klan".

Much like XFINITY sounds better than Comcast.

I thought "Alt-right" was the new name for "Aryan""? 

 

[Smoo]

He's gotten worse as his popularity has grown. But watch his interviews with Dave Rubin and Joe Rogan for the version of Milo I'm talking about.

 

[sublimeone]

Really fascinating stuff.  I just read an article a couple weeks ago about this guy.  

Alt-Right speech

The video is embedded in the article.  I'd recommend jumping straight to the video.  It is really astounding.  That's a packed room.

20 years ago, when the kkk in some random state like North Carolina marched, it was like 8 kkk members with 14 teeth between them, along with 200 protesters.  It seemed, as far as I could tell, a dead organization.

But this. . . . I don't know what to say.  I know we generally avoid calling people Nazi's, because hyperbole.  But . . . he's a Nazi, right?  And the people in the meeting, giving the Sieg Hiel salute.  Nazis.  

If I considered myself a non-racist Trump supporter, I would be OUTRAGED by this video.  Because it would be betraying everything that I've been trying to get across to my friends.  But . . . here we are. @Smoo, if you haven't seen this video, it is just amazing.  After watching it, it does make it hard to say "i kinda like some of the things those alt-right guys do."  Isn't that like saying at least Mussolini kept the trains on time? 

Are those people alt-right? I mean, I guess... from my understanding of the 'alt-right' -- basically a fringe of the right... they guys are a fringe of that fringe.

Are they neo nazis? yes

Are they white supremacists? yes

Is there a difference between "white nationalist" and "white supremacist? I don't know.

I think the real question to ask is: Do we really believe a couple hundred degenerates meeting at the Holiday Inn conference room are something to concern ourselves with? Or are these people simply useful idiots for the left to try and smear the right?

I think we all know the answer. It isn't the right trumpeting these people. It's the left, trying to create the illusion that this is mainstream and the reason Trump won. It's utter nonsense.