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The Banking Industry Thread (1 Viewer)

With a few exceptions, credit unions have historically been very conservative when it comes to risk. I don't see the worry.
Well, that is the thing. Historically credit unions have never been focused on growth but servicing the members of their primary service group (historically a particular employer).

This has and is changing.

A number of credit unions have failed over the last few years. Many unhealthy CU's have merged with healthier CU's. Credit Unions are looking towards growth. Growth in financial services normally means things like loosening underwriting and offering more aggressive pricing/costlier products and services, etc. Absolutely a 'risk'.

 
Credit unions could get bigger under new rule, but business loans still face capNov 20, 2015, 12:37pm CST
Credit unions could grow larger under a proposed rule that would make more people eligible to join these financial cooperatives.

The National Credit Union Administration proposes to change the field-of-membership rules for federally chartered credit unions in ways that would make millions more Americans eligible for credit union membership.

“There is nothing more vital to the future of a credit union than the ability to attract new members,” said NCUA Chairman Debbie Matz. “Our vision is to enable federal credit unions to reach potential members from all walks of life. With this proposed rule, we would expand consumer choice, increase access to affordable financial services and provide regulatory relief to a wide range of federal credit unions. At the same time, we will keep the federal charter competitive with state charters that allow more permissive field-of-membership rules.”


Credit unions welcomed the proposed changes, while banks accused the NCUA of overstepping the limits Congress placed on credit unions in exchange for their exemption from federal taxes.

The proposal is “the most comprehensive field-of-membership reform initiative that the industry has seen in over a decade,” said Dan Berger, president and CEO of the National Association of Federal Credit Unions. “As commerce and consumer behavior continue to rapidly evolve with innovative technologies, we are pleased to see that the agency listened to our member credit unions’ suggestions on how to keep pace with today’s marketplace.”

Under the proposal, the areas served by a community charter would be expanded, rural districts could include up to 1 million people, and the definition of a “trade, industry or profession” would be expanded.

Bankers said the proposal would allow credit unions to act like banks, instead of sticking to their original mission of serving people with modest incomes who share a common bond.

“The National Credit Union Administration has once again show that it is captive to the credit union industry it is charged with regulating,” said Camden Fine, president and CEO of the Independent Community Bankers of America.
http://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/news/news-wire/2015/11/20/credit-unions-could-get-bigger-under-new-rule-but.html?iana=ind_bank
That's pretty big given the current scene of the banking industry. Hopefully if some choose to expand they do so wisely.
What are you worried about?
There are right and wrong ways to grow. For example, one could instantly "grow their book" with mortgages. On the surface, it's nice to have a billion dollars in new assets today, but if they are worth $5 in a year or two, well that was a poor decision.

 
Credit unions could get bigger under new rule, but business loans still face capNov 20, 2015, 12:37pm CST
Credit unions could grow larger under a proposed rule that would make more people eligible to join these financial cooperatives.

The National Credit Union Administration proposes to change the field-of-membership rules for federally chartered credit unions in ways that would make millions more Americans eligible for credit union membership.

“There is nothing more vital to the future of a credit union than the ability to attract new members,” said NCUA Chairman Debbie Matz. “Our vision is to enable federal credit unions to reach potential members from all walks of life. With this proposed rule, we would expand consumer choice, increase access to affordable financial services and provide regulatory relief to a wide range of federal credit unions. At the same time, we will keep the federal charter competitive with state charters that allow more permissive field-of-membership rules.”


Credit unions welcomed the proposed changes, while banks accused the NCUA of overstepping the limits Congress placed on credit unions in exchange for their exemption from federal taxes.

The proposal is “the most comprehensive field-of-membership reform initiative that the industry has seen in over a decade,” said Dan Berger, president and CEO of the National Association of Federal Credit Unions. “As commerce and consumer behavior continue to rapidly evolve with innovative technologies, we are pleased to see that the agency listened to our member credit unions’ suggestions on how to keep pace with today’s marketplace.”

Under the proposal, the areas served by a community charter would be expanded, rural districts could include up to 1 million people, and the definition of a “trade, industry or profession” would be expanded.

Bankers said the proposal would allow credit unions to act like banks, instead of sticking to their original mission of serving people with modest incomes who share a common bond.

“The National Credit Union Administration has once again show that it is captive to the credit union industry it is charged with regulating,” said Camden Fine, president and CEO of the Independent Community Bankers of America.
http://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/news/news-wire/2015/11/20/credit-unions-could-get-bigger-under-new-rule-but.html?iana=ind_bank
That's pretty big given the current scene of the banking industry. Hopefully if some choose to expand they do so wisely.
What are you worried about?
Just like any industry- too much aggressive growth for the sake of growth can end up causing big problems. Even more so with banking/credit unions. (I assume that is what commish what speaking towards)
With a few exceptions, credit unions have historically been very conservative when it comes to risk. I don't see the worry.
This primarily because there was no incentive to be risky. The risk wasn't worth the reward. Now, in a bigger pool with bigger fish, that risk can be more appealing yet still as harmful.

 
This primarily because there was no incentive to be risky. The risk wasn't worth the reward. Now, in a bigger pool with bigger fish, that risk can be more appealing yet still as harmful.
Not only this but historically CU's were limited to the members of their primary service group which usually was a particular employer or union etc. It is a relatively new thing for CU's to expand to a number of employers and geographical areas. But when you are the credit union for a company of 5,000 employees- there is only so much growth you can do. Growth has really never been a part of the credit union DNA because of that. But now as they merge and add multiple employers and geographical areas- they are able to grow. Many credit unions are trying to go from a service culture to a sales culture (i.e. grow).

 
With a few exceptions, credit unions have historically been very conservative when it comes to risk. I don't see the worry.
Well, that is the thing. Historically credit unions have never been focused on growth but servicing the members of their primary service group (historically a particular employer).

This has and is changing.

A number of credit unions have failed over the last few years. Many unhealthy CU's have merged with healthier CU's. Credit Unions are looking towards growth. Growth in financial services normally means things like loosening underwriting and offering more aggressive pricing/costlier products and services, etc. Absolutely a 'risk'.
Every credit union is different, of course, but a focus on growth isn't anything new. Some have found ways around the field of membership problem -- your Alliant is a good example of that. Your point that I bolded is more likely to be true for a credit union that wants to grow but has been restricted by their field of membership. Open up field of membership and they can use their tried and true strategies on a wider membership base.

I'm not trying to be difficult and I acknowledge that growth not well managed can create problems. I just don't think this is the potential problem that you guys seem to think it is. In fact, I think it is probably more important than ever for credit unions to grow considering the increased regulatory burdens and the economies of scale in technology.

 
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This primarily because there was no incentive to be risky. The risk wasn't worth the reward. Now, in a bigger pool with bigger fish, that risk can be more appealing yet still as harmful.
Not only this but historically CU's were limited to the members of their primary service group which usually was a particular employer or union etc. It is a relatively new thing for CU's to expand to a number of employers and geographical areas. But when you are the credit union for a company of 5,000 employees- there is only so much growth you can do. Growth has really never been a part of the credit union DNA because of that. But now as they merge and add multiple employers and geographical areas- they are able to grow. Many credit unions are trying to go from a service culture to a sales culture (i.e. grow).
Not really. This has been going on to varying degrees at least since the 80s.

 
With a few exceptions, credit unions have historically been very conservative when it comes to risk. I don't see the worry.
Well, that is the thing. Historically credit unions have never been focused on growth but servicing the members of their primary service group (historically a particular employer).

This has and is changing.

A number of credit unions have failed over the last few years. Many unhealthy CU's have merged with healthier CU's. Credit Unions are looking towards growth. Growth in financial services normally means things like loosening underwriting and offering more aggressive pricing/costlier products and services, etc. Absolutely a 'risk'.
Every credit union is different, of course, but a focus on growth isn't anything new. Some have found ways around the field of membership problem -- your Alliant is a good example of that. Your point that I bolded is more likely to be true for a credit union that wants to grow but has been restricted by their field of membership. Open up field of membership and they can use their tried and true strategies on a wider membership base.

I'm not trying to be difficult and I acknowledge that growth not well managed can create problems. I just don't think this is the potential problem that you guys seem to think it is. In fact, I think it is probably more important than ever for credit unions to grow considering the increased regulatory burdens and the economies of scale in technology.
Growth is important. I am not saying that it is not. Being able to grow helps the credit union be healthy. Further, as you correctly point out, it helps in terms of economy of scale (not just technology but that is a big one). And of course there is good growth and bad growth.

There have been plenty of failures of credit unions. If you look at the list of failed CU's vs. failed banks- you can venture a guess in as much as percentage of failures there are more failures of credit unions than banks. They why behind those failure likely vary but I am sure you can find more than one or two that failed because of trying to grow and fell on their face. Alliant has taken advantage of other credit unions problems by merging with unhealthy credit unions- gaining their charters (potential growth) is likely more important to them than the actual customers they gained through those mergers.

Lastly, I would say "historically" it IS new for credit unions to be so focused on growth. It has been a trend for sure over the last decade plus but it is a certain 'shift' in the credit union 'industry' for sure.

 
This primarily because there was no incentive to be risky. The risk wasn't worth the reward. Now, in a bigger pool with bigger fish, that risk can be more appealing yet still as harmful.
Not only this but historically CU's were limited to the members of their primary service group which usually was a particular employer or union etc. It is a relatively new thing for CU's to expand to a number of employers and geographical areas. But when you are the credit union for a company of 5,000 employees- there is only so much growth you can do. Growth has really never been a part of the credit union DNA because of that. But now as they merge and add multiple employers and geographical areas- they are able to grow. Many credit unions are trying to go from a service culture to a sales culture (i.e. grow).
Not really. This has been going on to varying degrees at least since the 80s.
80's is likely a stretch and it is an evolutionary thing as well. Credit unions didn't just hit a switch over night and add new employer groups and geographical areas to their membership.

 
This primarily because there was no incentive to be risky. The risk wasn't worth the reward. Now, in a bigger pool with bigger fish, that risk can be more appealing yet still as harmful.
Not only this but historically CU's were limited to the members of their primary service group which usually was a particular employer or union etc. It is a relatively new thing for CU's to expand to a number of employers and geographical areas. But when you are the credit union for a company of 5,000 employees- there is only so much growth you can do. Growth has really never been a part of the credit union DNA because of that. But now as they merge and add multiple employers and geographical areas- they are able to grow. Many credit unions are trying to go from a service culture to a sales culture (i.e. grow).
Not really. This has been going on to varying degrees at least since the 80s.
80's is likely a stretch and it is an evolutionary thing as well. Credit unions didn't just hit a switch over night and add new employer groups and geographical areas to their membership.
I started in the credit union industry in the early 90s and the interest in new employer groups and community charters has been fairly consistent over the years. I'm not sure where you're getting that it's so new. Do you remember all the drama about HR 1151 in 1998?

 
Given the regulatory pressures smaller banks are facing there certainly is an opportunity for increased growth in credit unions.

 
This primarily because there was no incentive to be risky. The risk wasn't worth the reward. Now, in a bigger pool with bigger fish, that risk can be more appealing yet still as harmful.
Not only this but historically CU's were limited to the members of their primary service group which usually was a particular employer or union etc. It is a relatively new thing for CU's to expand to a number of employers and geographical areas. But when you are the credit union for a company of 5,000 employees- there is only so much growth you can do. Growth has really never been a part of the credit union DNA because of that. But now as they merge and add multiple employers and geographical areas- they are able to grow. Many credit unions are trying to go from a service culture to a sales culture (i.e. grow).
Not really. This has been going on to varying degrees at least since the 80s.
80's is likely a stretch and it is an evolutionary thing as well. Credit unions didn't just hit a switch over night and add new employer groups and geographical areas to their membership.
I started in the credit union industry in the early 90s and the interest in new employer groups and community charters has been fairly consistent over the years. I'm not sure where you're getting that it's so new. Do you remember all the drama about HR 1151 in 1998?
Early 90's is where I would say it started to really move from a single or couple of employer groups to adding multiples and geographical areas. Not that all credit unions in the 80's and before were single employer groups but the change has accelerated over the years. I have really seen a difference in this over just the last 15 years.

 
Given the regulatory pressures smaller banks are facing there certainly is an opportunity for increased growth in credit unions.
MB Financial which grew significantly over the years of the Great Recession from acquiring a number of small failed banks has now shifted to buying commercial oriented players here in Chicago. Just announced a deal for American Chartered on the heals of acquiring Cole Taylor. Will make it one of the leaders in mid sized commercial banking here in Chicago.

Chicago is the most unconsolidated banking market in the US. Over the last few years most acquisitions have been through failure. But I think this deal which valuation wise is more like pre-Great Recession than what we have seen up to this point, may signal a go ahead for more acqusition/mergers for smaller players (at least in the Chicago area)

The vibe/rumor mill that I have come across out here is that most small banks are either eagerly looking to sell or cautiously looking to buy. The lack of activity has been mostly due to the gap between buyers and sellers expected sale points. A HUGE part of that is the regulatory burden for sure.

 
With a few exceptions, credit unions have historically been very conservative when it comes to risk. I don't see the worry.
Well, that is the thing. Historically credit unions have never been focused on growth but servicing the members of their primary service group (historically a particular employer).

This has and is changing.

A number of credit unions have failed over the last few years. Many unhealthy CU's have merged with healthier CU's. Credit Unions are looking towards growth. Growth in financial services normally means things like loosening underwriting and offering more aggressive pricing/costlier products and services, etc. Absolutely a 'risk'.
Every credit union is different, of course, but a focus on growth isn't anything new. Some have found ways around the field of membership problem -- your Alliant is a good example of that. Your point that I bolded is more likely to be true for a credit union that wants to grow but has been restricted by their field of membership. Open up field of membership and they can use their tried and true strategies on a wider membership base.

I'm not trying to be difficult and I acknowledge that growth not well managed can create problems. I just don't think this is the potential problem that you guys seem to think it is. In fact, I think it is probably more important than ever for credit unions to grow considering the increased regulatory burdens and the economies of scale in technology.
This was my only point. I'm certainly not overly concerned this can't be done. It was just a qualification I made :shrug:

 
Federal Reserve’s Kashkari Says Banks ‘Still Too Big to Fail’

By BINYAMIN APPELBAUMFEB. 16, 2016

WASHINGTON — A top architect of the 2008 federal bailout of the financial industry said on Tuesday that the government had not done enough to prevent a repeat.


 


  • Neel Kashkari, a Treasury Department official in the George W. Bush and Obama administrations and now president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis, said it was time to think about measures including breaking up the largest banks.

     
“I believe the biggest banks are still too big to fail and continue to pose a significant, ongoing risk to our economy,” Mr. Kashkari said at the Brookings Institution.

The speech caused a stir in Washington. Such views are common at both ends of the political spectrum – providing fuel for the presidential campaigns of Senator Bernie Sanders, Democrat of Vermont, and Donald Trump, a Republican – but Mr. Kashkari is a moderate Republican and a former employee of Goldman Sachs.

It was also Mr. Kashkari’s first speech in his new job, which he began in January.

“There are lines in your speech I can imagine a Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren saying,” David Wessel, a former journalist who moderated the Brookings event, told Mr. Kashkari during a panel discussion after the speech. “It’s not what one expects.”

Mr. Kashkari responded that he was calling things as he saw them.

“If I’m not wiling to stand up and share my concerns, then I wouldn’t be doing my job,” he said.

Mr. Kashkari said that the Minneapolis Fed would begin a research effort to consider “more transformational measures” the government could pursue.

The first and most familiar option is forcing large banks to break apart, the approach favored by Mr. Sanders. Opponents argue that large banks are actually stronger in some ways, and that they play an important economic role.

A second possibility, Mr. Kashkari said, would be to greatly reduce the ability of banks to borrow money by increasing the share of funding they must raise in the form of capital. He compared this to the safeguards imposed on nuclear power plants, whose failure is regarded as unacceptable. Anat R. Admati, a Stanford finance professor, is a leading proponent of this approach.

A third, broader approach would impose a tax on borrowing throughout the financial system, reducing risk-taking not just by banks but a wide range of other financial intermediaries. The role of banks in the financial system has declined over time, and many experts regard the rest of the financial system, relatively less regulated, as a more likely source of future crises.

Critics of both the second and third approaches argue that economic growth requires risk-taking, and that preventing risk-taking by some intermediaries will simply shift activity to less-regulated companies.

Mr. Kashkari’s bleak assessment is not shared by some other Fed officials.

Eric S. Rosengren, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston and an influential voice on regulatory issues, said in a recent speech that the government had made “substantial progress.” He said new regulation had reduced both the probability and the cost of a large-bank failure.

Donald L. Kohn, who worked with Mr. Kashkari during the crisis as the Fed’s vice chairman, said that he did not share Mr. Kashkari’s pessimism.

Congress responded to the crisis by passing the Dodd-Frank Act, which grants regulators new powers to constrain and, if necessary, dismantle large banks.

“I think the new regime, once it’s fully in place, probably will work,” Mr. Kohn said.

Mr. Kashkari, in response, emphasized that the potential cost of large crises underscored the importance of minimizing risk.

“It’s not simply the cost of the bailout,” Mr. Kashkari said. “It’s the economic damage that’s inflicted across society.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/17/business/dealbook/federal-reserves-kashkari-says-banks-still-too-big-to-fail.html?_r=0

 
Federal Reserve’s Kashkari Says Banks ‘Still Too Big to Fail’

By BINYAMIN APPELBAUMFEB. 16, 2016

WASHINGTON — A top architect of the 2008 federal bailout of the financial industry said on Tuesday that the government had not done enough to prevent a repeat.


 


  • Neel Kashkari, a Treasury Department official in the George W. Bush and Obama administrations and now president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis, said it was time to think about measures including breaking up the largest banks.
     
“I believe the biggest banks are still too big to fail and continue to pose a significant, ongoing risk to our economy,” Mr. Kashkari said at the Brookings Institution.

The speech caused a stir in Washington. Such views are common at both ends of the political spectrum – providing fuel for the presidential campaigns of Senator Bernie Sanders, Democrat of Vermont, and Donald Trump, a Republican – but Mr. Kashkari is a moderate Republican and a former employee of Goldman Sachs.

It was also Mr. Kashkari’s first speech in his new job, which he began in January.

“There are lines in your speech I can imagine a Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren saying,” David Wessel, a former journalist who moderated the Brookings event, told Mr. Kashkari during a panel discussion after the speech. “It’s not what one expects.”

Mr. Kashkari responded that he was calling things as he saw them.

“If I’m not wiling to stand up and share my concerns, then I wouldn’t be doing my job,” he said.

Mr. Kashkari said that the Minneapolis Fed would begin a research effort to consider “more transformational measures” the government could pursue.

The first and most familiar option is forcing large banks to break apart, the approach favored by Mr. Sanders. Opponents argue that large banks are actually stronger in some ways, and that they play an important economic role.

A second possibility, Mr. Kashkari said, would be to greatly reduce the ability of banks to borrow money by increasing the share of funding they must raise in the form of capital. He compared this to the safeguards imposed on nuclear power plants, whose failure is regarded as unacceptable. Anat R. Admati, a Stanford finance professor, is a leading proponent of this approach.

A third, broader approach would impose a tax on borrowing throughout the financial system, reducing risk-taking not just by banks but a wide range of other financial intermediaries. The role of banks in the financial system has declined over time, and many experts regard the rest of the financial system, relatively less regulated, as a more likely source of future crises.

Critics of both the second and third approaches argue that economic growth requires risk-taking, and that preventing risk-taking by some intermediaries will simply shift activity to less-regulated companies.

Mr. Kashkari’s bleak assessment is not shared by some other Fed officials.

Eric S. Rosengren, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston and an influential voice on regulatory issues, said in a recent speech that the government had made “substantial progress.” He said new regulation had reduced both the probability and the cost of a large-bank failure.

Donald L. Kohn, who worked with Mr. Kashkari during the crisis as the Fed’s vice chairman, said that he did not share Mr. Kashkari’s pessimism.

Congress responded to the crisis by passing the Dodd-Frank Act, which grants regulators new powers to constrain and, if necessary, dismantle large banks.

“I think the new regime, once it’s fully in place, probably will work,” Mr. Kohn said.

Mr. Kashkari, in response, emphasized that the potential cost of large crises underscored the importance of minimizing risk.

“It’s not simply the cost of the bailout,” Mr. Kashkari said. “It’s the economic damage that’s inflicted across society.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/17/business/dealbook/federal-reserves-kashkari-says-banks-still-too-big-to-fail.html?_r=0
And water is wet.

 
By Kate Gibson MoneyWatch.com April 29, 2016, 12:50 PM


TD Bank sued over penny-pinching counting machines


While counting your pennies is a phrase used to promote the idea of frugality, it seemingly cost consumers a pretty penny to have their coins tallied at the Penny Arcade machines at TD Bank branches.

The Canadian bank, which used to offer a prize for those who could guess within $1.99 of the total of coins dropped into their counters, may be in line for a booby prize of sorts for its mechanical calculating abilities, which came under scrutiny after reports included some TD Bank miscounts by nearly $50.

A proposed class-action suit filed this week in federal court contends thousands of consumers were short changed millions of dollars over the years by unloading their piggy banks in TD Bank's counting machines, which the bank began taking out of service earlier this month.

Filed on behalf of the owner of multiple coin-operated washing and drying machines, the suit contends Regina Filannino-Restifo opened a TD Bank account specifically to have free access to the Penny Arcade at a TD branch in Jefferson Valley, New York. Non-customers are charged an eight percent usage fee for using the coin-counting machines.

"TD Bank's Penny Arcade machines have continuously undercounted coins placed in them by consumers for years and resulted in the loss of millions of dollars," according to the suit filed in federal court on Wednesday.

One of the lawyers involved in the suit, Stephen DeNittis, has previous experience in representing consumers who feel they are getting the short end of the stick, going after Subway for selling "Footlong" sandwiches that didn't always measure up.

TD Bank, with U.S. headquarters in Cherry Hill, New Jersey, declined to comment on pending litigation, but said it was "disappointed" with the experience journalists had with its machines.

"We place a premium on the integrity of these machines, and that's why we clean and test them twice daily to confirm accuracy," Judith Schmidt, a spokeswoman for the bank said in an email. "Our machines will be brought back into service when we are satisfied they meet our performance requirements. Additionally, we will be enhancing the routine maintenance and testing of our machines."

The bank's troubles prompted PNC Bank to pull its remaining coin-counting machines from its branches earlier this month.

"We began the process of phasing out our in-branch coin counters last year for a variety of reasons, including low customer use," said Marcey Zwiebel, a spokeswoman for PNC Financial Services. "In addition, we have taken recent media reports, calling into question the accuracy of coin counters in the industry, very seriously."
Banks were already getting rid of these. Chase got rid of all of theirs already mid last year. They are costly to have (they break down all the time) and takes sucks manpower. Add in lawsuits like this and that just makes a bigger case for banks to get rid of them.
 
With a now Republican controlled federal government, anyone want to guess what deregulation the industry will see?  Is there a chance the cfpb gets axed?

 
With a now Republican controlled federal government, anyone want to guess what deregulation the industry will see?  Is there a chance the cfpb gets axed?
The CFPB is a disaster in every way, shape and form and would be prosecuted out of existence if it held itself to the same overzealous scrutiny as it does with the banks and financial companies under its jurisdiction.  And despite what their PR machine tells you, they really haven't had any significant positive impact for consumers.  If anything, they've just managed to make many financial products more expensive to consumers.  

But I don't think there is enough legislative support to get rid of it altogether (unfortunately).  What is very feasible, however, is to put limits on the CFPB Director's powers (basically unlimited) and make him subject to an elected officer's appointment with approval from Congress (like most other major agency positions).  Getting the CFPB in line with how they make rules and their enforcement powers is also long overdue.  

 
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