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What? I really don't get how you (and others on this board) keep saying that.He put up extremely solid numbers last year on one of the worst teams in the league.He has only missed 1 game in the past 4 years.He was an absolute model teammate on a poor team last year.He is a freak of an athlete and arguably the second best WR of all time.He has looked fantastic in the preseason.Carson loves to throw to him and has targeted him numerous times this preseason.He caught a 40 yard bomb and looked like vintage TO.He has a superb running game, Ocho, Shipey and Gresham to take some pressure off of him.He's in for a good (if not great) year based on his ADP.Watch some games. Watch some tape. Just like Mike Tyson - He's still got it.
I agree to a large point. I wont put much into the preseason looks, as I do believe they were looking to get him involved as a matter of gettting comfortable. Some of that action was forced IMO. I still put TO ahead of chad for value. Still like chad, just think TO is the better bang for buck, and will be much more consistent.
ocho>to. i dont know how you can actually watch bengal football and think that to will usurp ocho. hing: did you watch any bengals games last yr?
2009 55 829 5 109 6 54 1 Somehow those numbers just don't conjure up "extremely solid" to me.
Considering Buffalo was one of the worst teams last year and he still got 55/800/5.... you must assume he'll get at least that this year. He's old but everyone knows he's in great shape.
He had a so-so season with the Cowboys too though http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/3664/g....uLYF?year=2008half those games he had less than 40 yds receiving, the guy has clearly lost a step.
Been drafting him, Flacco and Big Ben when possible. Think Palmer may be the best value. He's really been under the radar in most leagues.
Yep....how quickly we forget Randy Moss in Oakland
My thought is that TO is and always has been better than 85. It may be 85's team just like The Heat is Wade's team but LeBron is the better player. TO will outperform 85 although 85 may get more receptions overall.
my league doesn't penalize points when a player loses a step. all i care about is production.and hmmmm that SO-SO season with the Cowboys in 2008 looks suspiciously like the prediction i put out there for 2010. 70/1050/10 TDs vs. 70/1100/8-12.
Over 1000 yds. and 10 TDs is better than a "so so" season, and what you left out is that Romo missed 3 games in 2008, plus played with a splint for 1 or 2 more. Brad Johnson and Brooks Bollinger were dreadful, they had combined for 490 yards passing, 3 TDs and 6 INTs in those 3 games and TO had 100 yds. and 1 TD. If you put it into perspective, it was a pretty good season actually.TO has lost a step, but when your starting point is a step or more above most of the league, he's still plenty good enough to get it done.
wait so is it a good thing or a bad thing that he had a 9/200/1 TD game last year?or that 7/213/1 game in 2008?or in 2007 the games of 8/145, 10/174/1, 8/173/4, and 7/156/1?the fact that he's put up these monster games in the last several years goes to show that he has NOT lost a step. the team around him in buffalo was dreadful, and the team around him in dallas was at least dis-functional/injured. TO still has elite level talent. How many WRs have posted a 200 yard game in each of the last two seasons??
You took my post WAY out of context. Are you a journalist?
no, i'm a law student. other's may have claimed that TO will be more consistent than Ocho.... I never did. I just continued making my points that TO is (1) still good and (2) an excellent value with (3) a high floor.
Lawyer was my 2nd guess.. Lawyer and Journalist are very similar.
I said "arguably".He would be in the discussion. And I agree that Moss is better.
2005 Rudi had 337 rushes2006 Rudi had 341 rushes2007 Rudi and Kenny Watson combined for 347 Rushes.Last season Benson's 13 games prorates to 371 Rushes- however they had no #2 receiver as Coles stunk, Henry died and Caldwell wasn't good enough. I have no problem expecting a 19-21 carry per game season for Benson and still expecting 260+ targets combined for Ocho and Owens.
I Remember this guy Randy Moss who played for a crap team, with a crap QB and he wasn't what he used to be?
I never said Moss wasn't what he used to be.
well, they definitely threw the ball less last yr. palmer had 477 attempts whereas from 2005-07 the bengals had 538, 523 and 575 passes. factor in that palmer is no longer uber efficient, and that gresham is gonna add about 30 targets to the te total.say palmer throws it 515 times, a decent bump from last yrs throwback gameplan.85 to rbs 90 to testhat leaves only 315 targets to all the wrs. how much role will shipley and caldwell have?
Last year the average team had 532 pass attempts- and the mean was ~540. Teams that threw it <520 timesJagsChargersRavensRaidersBengalsTitansPanthersBrownsBills JetsOf those non Bengals teams Rivers is a v good QB, Flacco decent last year and no other team had a competent passing QB. The Bengals went out and signed Bryant and Jones and when Bryant was injured they got T.O., they drafted Gresham and Shipley. I read the aggressive pursuit of receivers as a signal that they are strongly interested in upgrading their passing game. I would not expect them to be below average in attempts this year given their history before Palmer's injury and these moves.Gresham is a rookie TE- 45 receptions for 500 yards and 3 TDs would generally be considered a strong rookie campaign for a TE- that is pretty close to what Cin TEs put up last season. Shipley is a 3rd round rookie WR- if he busts out he could have 700 yards 4-5 TDs? And if that happens it most likely will be at the expense of Caldwell's production who preformed decently last year but hasn't entrenched himself as the #3 to the extent the organization seems to have hoped. He certainly hasn't looked like a #2.
Yeah and I told those people back then they were being foolish. It's not even remotely close to the same. 1. Moss was paid a kings ransom as the best WR in the NFL to go play in Oak, a wasteland. TO only had Buf, a wasteland as well, as an option because nobody else wanted him.2. Moss had much better seasons in Oak than TO did in Buf. Moss put up 1008/8 in 15 games in his 1st year and 553/3 in 13 games his 2nd year. TO put up 829/5 in 16 games.3. Moss didn't care to play so he didn't. TO cared but just couldn't.4. TO was 35 years old when he went to Buf. Moss was 29 years old when he went to NE.5. Moss actually is one of the best 2 WRs to ever play the game. Probably the best. Almost unquestionably the most physically gifted ever. TO is not.6. Moss went to a team with a future HOF QB and for the 1st time ever had a great QB passing to him. TO was going to a team that had garbage at QB.The 2 situations couldn't be further from the same.
you are way too hyperbolic to be taken seriously.
Then don't take it serious.
Owens will do fine. He showed in exhibition that he is still deadly on deep routes. Especially those where they try to jam him at the line. (he is especially good at beating the jam) I dont think the presence of Owens will affect Ocho Cinco. Owens is a different type of WR. If anything, this will boost the numbers of Ocho Cinco and the team will be a little scary in the sense that They will be hard to stop.
IMHO the Bengal's offensive team that TO is joining is much more like the Oakland offensive team Moss joined his first year with the Raiders. Far more than the hopeless Bills were last year. Go take a look at the Oaklands roster...That being said... I believe TO represents exceptional value and will have a nice year. I'm not advertising a return to the top 5 receivers in the league, but.. I strongly believe he will be good for 9+ TD's
You rarely hear when this is a good thing. That said, many many teams have flopped trying to go without a FB. Most recently would be Matt Forte who was downright horrible without one.The Bengals have had a 1000 yard runner for as long as I can remember and usually a decent passing game if not a very good one. They're one franchise that knows how to do both well IMO and isn't just one sided unless injuries force their hand.
