The difference between great teams of the past and the Patriots of thi (1 Viewer)

[Hatchdog33]

No team can sustain that level of dominance over an entire 16 game season. It's impossible. What makes the Pats special is that they are finding ways to win when they are outplayed. That's the difference between 14-2 and 16-0.

I never felt that Philly could beat the Pats, even when they pushed the Pats D around and hit Brady all night. However, last night I had chalked it up to a loss and so did my friends. The Pats were outplayed and still found the guts and poise to win.

The Pats were worked on both sides of the ball and clearly didn't have the requisite focus. Dropped balls and lack of fire. They should have lost. A 14-2 or 13-3 team loses that game.

But when they needed it in the 4th, that D stiffened up REAL quick. They got the breaks that every great team gets a couple times a year and Brady came up when it mattered.

I completely understand why the haters feel the way they do. But you have to admire a team that can win when they shouldn't..

That's the difference

 

[Black]

I KNEW IT...I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT!!!



As I watched the last few seconds tick off the NE/BAL game, I was thinking the ONLY thing worse than the smug and whiney Patriots actually winning that gifted game was listening to another week of "THE GOOD TEAMS FIND WAYS TO WIN."

How about this...the good teams don't almost lose to Kyle Boller.

 

[FavreCo]

All I can say about this is that if the 1985 Bears played NE, they would destroy them and I hate the Bears. Early 90's Dallas would probably also win.

Boller...c'mon.

 

[greenline]

good teams find a way to win regardless of what's happened. Haters find a bunch of "Yeah, but's..."

 

[sho nuff]

I KNEW IT...I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT!!! As I watched the last few seconds tick off the NE/BAL game, I was thinking the ONLY thing worse than the smug and whiney Patriots actually winning that gifted game was listening to another week of "THE GOOD TEAMS FIND WAYS TO WIN."How about this...the good teams don't almost lose to Kyle Boller.

Or AJ Feeley.

 

[Hatchdog33]

good teams find a way to win regardless of what's happened. Haters find a bunch of "Yeah, but's..."

I don't know how else you explain a game like last night...they won while being outplayed..

 

[pecorino]

great teams of the past tended to have stout defenses and at least some semblence of a running game. that's why the pats are not in the same league as those teams. i equate them more with the st louis rams when they scored a boatload of points. but again, the rams defense that year was better than the pats of '07. this current patriots team is a good team, maybe even a great team, but not an all-time great.

 

[Hatchdog33]

great teams of the past tended to have stout defenses and at least some semblence of a running game. that's why the pats are not in the same league as those teams. i equate them more with the st louis rams when they scored a boatload of points. but again, the rams defense that year was better than the pats of '07. this current patriots team is a good team, maybe even a great team, but not an all-time great.

Time will tell on that one...

 

[cobalt_27]

great teams of the past tended to have stout defenses and at least some semblence of a running game. that's why the pats are not in the same league as those teams. i equate them more with the st louis rams when they scored a boatload of points. but again, the rams defense that year was better than the pats of '07. this current patriots team is a good team, maybe even a great team, but not an all-time great.

The I imagine the Broncos, Cowboys, Niners and Bears championship teams would have taken care of business against these Patriots.

 

[switz]

I KNEW IT...I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT!!!



As I watched the last few seconds tick off the NE/BAL game, I was thinking the ONLY thing worse than the smug and whiney Patriots actually winning that gifted game was listening to another week of "THE GOOD TEAMS FIND WAYS TO WIN."

How about this...the good teams don't almost lose to Kyle Boller.

... or AJ Feeley.BTW "finding a way to win" is equivalent to having a few more players on the field for your team (wearing black and white)

 

[greenline]

I KNEW IT...I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT!!!



As I watched the last few seconds tick off the NE/BAL game, I was thinking the ONLY thing worse than the smug and whiney Patriots actually winning that gifted game was listening to another week of "THE GOOD TEAMS FIND WAYS TO WIN."

How about this...the good teams don't almost lose to Kyle Boller.

... or AJ Feeley.BTW "finding a way to win" is equivalent to having a few more players on the field for your team (wearing black and white)

Is your alter ego Phlatemagic? You guys spew all the same stuff. "Toxic waste."

 

[greenline]

From Bob Ryan of the Boston Globe

We call this reality

Link By Bob Ryan, Globe Staff December 4, 07 10:18 AM

I believe the smiles have been wiped off our faces.

No, not the Patriots themselves. We can take them at face value when they say they never paid any real attention to the undefeated hype. They left that to us: the fans, the media, and the oddsmakers who kept making them prohibitive favorites, week after week after week.

But we all bought into it, anyway. We loved the weekly blowouts. We loved the talk about records. We loved the idea that Tom Brady might blow past Babe Ruth and Roger Maris. We loved the idea that the Patriots might really be the Greatest Team That Ever Was. It was fun to talk about, for sure.

Now reality has truly set in. The Patriots have their vulnerabilities. A pair of mediocre quarterbacks have made some big plays against them, and a quality running back such as Willis McGahee has run right through them. The Patriots have been treated with utter disrespect by a pair of teams that will not make the playoffs.

They are, however, still unblemished. They are 12-0 and they remain favored to go 16-0, and then 19-0. It's just that it's not going to be as easy to accomplish as it once looked.

First of all, they miss Roosevelt Colvin. He had blown hot and cold, true, but he was a savvy vet you could count on in big situations. That's only the half it it, however. They are down a key body. Tedy Bruschi and Junior Seau are now being stretched, perhaps past their current ability to perform. The lack of a really viable young linebacker is a problem. Pierre Woods and Eric Alexander may be OK auxiliary players, but what the Patriots could use right now is a frisky young linebacker who can really play, and they don't have one. (I think we're looking at a draft day need, not that they are known for need drafting).

But say this: when they absolutely, positively had to make defensive stops last night, they did so. One of them was made by Rodney Harrison, whose great shoetop tackle prevented what would have been a killer Baltimore first down. Please, Rodney please. Find a way to stay healthy for the remainder of the season.

On the other side of the ball, I was actually encouraged. The Colts did a nice job on Randy Moss (although they can't take credit for him dropping a touchdown pass). They also did what no one else has done, and that is neutralize Wes Welker. But Brady now has so many weapons that it's ridiculous. Dante Stallworth was a factor early, Benjamin Watson, despite his awful drop of a TD pass, was a factor, and then there was Jabar Gaffney, who's not a bad number four receiver, eh?

By the way, did you know that in the 2000 Tennessee-Florida game, Jabar Gaffney caught a controversial game-winning touchdown pass with 14 seconds to go from Jesse (Hot Bachelor) Palmer, in which the issue was whether or not he was juggling the ball in the end zone? Neither did I until alert reader Ted McCaffrey told me.

I was further encouraged because the Patriots did get a little something out of the running game and because they found a way to get the ball into Laurence Maroney's hands with a little daylight. I'd like to see more of that.

Were they lucky? You bet your autographed picture of Horace Ivory they were lucky. Luck has always been part of any superior team's deal. The Celtics of legend were always lucky in the eyes of their opponents. The vaunted Leprechaun was always their best Sixth Man. You send Rex Ryan a thank you card and a box of chocolates, and you move on.

The officiating? I have heard all those complaints before, too. One person you didn't see complaining too much on Monday night was Brain Billick. He knew. His team started killing itself with penalties almost as soon as the game started, and it never stopped. The calls were clearly valid. Sorry, Ravens. You did it.

I find it interesting that in each of the last two weeks a sub QB having a very good game had his carriage turn into a pumpkin in the form of an unforgivable interception on a ball that should never have been thrown. "A rookie mistake by a fifth-year quarterback" is the way Steve Young described the James Sanders interception last night. He could have made a similar comment on the Asante Samuel pick last week.

Yet that's also a predictable part of the Big Picture when a team such as the Patriots comes along. Most of the time, you end up being who you are and they end up being who they are. As You Know Who loves to say, it is what it is. The Patriots can beat you by 40 or they can beat you by three, but they find a way to beat you, and you will have a hand in your own demise.

Incidentally, Brady needs nine touchdown passes in four games to beat the record. December is here. Those games will be in Foxborough and the Meadowlands. It's no lock. Then again, he'll be playing the Jets and Dolphins.

Games like the last two are great fan treats when you win. There is something to be said for leading, 35-7, at the half, but it does get boring, week after week. Games like the last two enhance the fan experience. Coming from behind is exhilarating. These are also indicators that your team has what it takes to play under extreme pressure. Common sense says you'll need to win at least one of these when the playoffs come. A little dress rehearsal is nice.

 

[twitch]

I KNEW IT...I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT!!! As I watched the last few seconds tick off the NE/BAL game, I was thinking the ONLY thing worse than the smug and whiney Patriots actually winning that gifted game was listening to another week of "THE GOOD TEAMS FIND WAYS TO WIN."How about this...the good teams don't almost lose to Kyle Boller.

The word 'almost' doesnt exist in any NFL record books or standings that Im aware of. Correct me if Im wrong.

 

[Tanner9919]

All I can say about this is that if the 1985 Bears played NE, they would destroy them and I hate the Bears. Early 90's Dallas would probably also win.

Boller...c'mon.

lest we forget 1986 Giants - that defense was incredible, and they could pound Joe Morris at the NE defense, all day long, dfon't forget the 1989 Niners, and the Broncos from the late '90's had an unstoppable running game and a solid defense...but , the team remaining with the best shot at beating Ne, is Indy..they will get their chance in the playoffs, likely in the AFC Championship Game.

they have all the tools necessary...

I wouldn't mind the fact that NE is winning , if it wasn't for all of the smugness and arrogance with which they go out and play..

they have no class..I don't mind running up the score, but when Rodney Harrison starts jabbing at Brian Billick , or any HC for that matter, its classless BS at that point..

but I'm not going to say NE deserves an asterisk next to their name if they go 16-0, they'll have earned their place in history by then..

 

[twitch]

All I can say about this is that if the 1985 Bears played NE, they would destroy them and I hate the Bears. Early 90's Dallas would probably also win.

Boller...c'mon.

lest we forget 1986 Giants - that defense was incredible, and they could pound Joe Morris at the NE defense, all day long, dfon't forget the 1989 Niners, and the Broncos from the late '90's had an unstoppable running game and a solid defense...but , the team remaining with the best shot at beating Ne, is Indy..they will get their chance in the playoffs, likely in the AFC Championship Game.

they have all the tools necessary...

I wouldn't mind the fact that NE is winning , if it wasn't for all of the smugness and arrogance with which they go out and play..

they have no class..I don't mind running up the score, but when Rodney Harrison starts jabbing at Brian Billick , or any HC for that matter, its classless BS at that point..

but I'm not going to say NE deserves an asterisk next to their name if they go 16-0, they'll have earned their place in history by then..

And how did Billick respond to that? By blowing him kisses?? are you kidding me? who does that? what other NFL head coach have you ever seen do something that? kisses? seriously. Don Shula blowing kisses? Chuck Knoll? Belichick? blowing kisses? I dont even know quite what to think of that, other than I couldnt imagine a head coach doing it. And Im not saying that act was classless. It was something a little weirder than that.

 

[BelichicksRevenge]

Look up any of the great teams of the past and you will find that they had some close calls or even losses to mediocre teams during the season. The Patriots will go down as one of the all time great teams if they go 19-0. In order to that they will have to defeat some damn good teams in the playoffs. This close call will be long forgotten if they win the super bowl.

For example, the Great Bears team defeated a 2-14 Tampa by 8 points, they got blown out by Miami in the first halfand defeated a 5-11 Colts team by 7.

that Bears team was number 1 in defense and number 6 on offense. the Patriots are number 1 on offense and number 6 on defense.

 

[pats3in4]

And how did Billick respond to that? By blowing him kisses?? are you kidding me? who does that? what other NFL head coach have you ever seen do something that? kisses? seriously. Don Shula blowing kisses? Chuck Knoll? Belichick? blowing kisses? I dont even know quite what to think of that, other than I couldnt imagine a head coach doing it. And Im not saying that act was classless. It was something a little weirder than that.

Brian Billick is Joe Namath to Rodney Harrison's Suzy Kolber.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

In all these thread I notice Patriot supporters putting their spin on things and then telling me what I "have to believe." You enjoying your team is wonderful. You arguing or telling me what I "have to believe" is offensive and presumptuous.

 

[Intergalactic Kegger]

All I can say about this is that if the 1985 Bears played NE, they would destroy them and I hate the Bears. Early 90's Dallas would probably also win.Boller...c'mon.

I really really doubt this. In 1985, the 46 defense was new and innovative. In 2007, Belichick would destroy it with this offense.

 

[Mungo Burrows]

We call this reality

Link By Bob Ryan, Globe Staff December 4, 07 10:18 AM

The Colts did a nice job on Randy Moss (although they can't take credit for him dropping a touchdown pass).

And to add insult to injury, we've got Boston columnists calling the Baltimore team "The Colts".

 

[Chase Stuart]

good teams find a way to win regardless of what's happened. Haters find a bunch of "Yeah, but's..."

I don't know how else you explain a game like last night...they won while being outplayed..

The Bears won while being outplayed against the Broncos earlier this season. The Lions won while being outplayed against the Bucs earlier this season.

 

[BelichicksRevenge]

We call this reality

Link By Bob Ryan, Globe Staff December 4, 07 10:18 AM

The Colts did a nice job on Randy Moss (although they can't take credit for him dropping a touchdown pass).

And to add insult to injury, we've got Boston columnists calling the Baltimore team "The Colts".

I'm a huge pats fan and a huge bob ryan hater.

 

[Statcruncher]

No team can sustain that level of dominance over an entire 16 game season. It's impossible.

What's noticeable to me is that people who said this after 8 weeks were "Patriot haters". However now that the Pats barely survived a couple games it's changed to mean they're a great team? I don't mind NE fans blowing smoke up my #### since their team is the current NFL powerhouse, but at least pick one shtick and stick with it for the entire season.

 

[Bill Lust]

I KNEW IT...I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT!!!



As I watched the last few seconds tick off the NE/BAL game, I was thinking the ONLY thing worse than the smug and whiney Patriots actually winning that gifted game was listening to another week of "THE GOOD TEAMS FIND WAYS TO WIN."

How about this...the good teams don't almost lose to Kyle Boller.

... or AJ Feeley.BTW "finding a way to win" is equivalent to having a few more players on the field for your team (wearing black and white)

Your whining is consistently lame. You don't like the Pats. We hear you loud and clear. Do you have anything else to offer?

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

As an interesting counter-point to the group think of this thread that the 2007 Patriots are clearly inferior to (insert favorite team here), Mark Schlerith (sp?) on NFL Live offered this perspective, paraphrasing, if the 2007 Patriots go 19-0 against this year's schedule in the salary cap era they will go down in history as the greatest team of all time.

Just passing along information to an unbiased audience...

Carry on.

 

[Hov34]

As an interesting counter-point to the group think of this thread that the 2007 Patriots are clearly inferior to (insert favorite team here), Mark Schlerith (sp?) on NFL Live offered this perspective, paraphrasing, if the 2007 Patriots go 19-0 against this year's schedule in the salary cap era they will go down in history as the greatest team of all time.Just passing along information to an unbiased audience...Carry on.

Well, if a soap star said it... It must be true.

 

[Catbird]

The difference between most of the great teams of history and the Patriots? Most of the great teams were real good AND had some class.

 

[kwantam]

Most of the great teams were real good AND had some class.

I'm sorry, please clarify for me. By "class," do you mean Buddy Ryan paying his players to cause injury, or do you mean Kimo doing it for free?-=kwantam

 

[DMaker]

Most of the great teams were real good AND had some class.

I'm sorry, please clarify for me. By "class," do you mean Buddy Ryan paying his players to cause injury, or do you mean Kimo doing it for free?-=kwantam

And the 85 Bears running "The Refridgerator" Perry in for a touchdown while being up big late in the Super Bowl was classy? Oh, and the "Superbowl Shuffle" music video, that was certainly classy?

 

[montanagold]

The difference.. isn't that the Pat's are so "the best team of all time", it's the quality of the league overall. Last years Colts would probably beat them.

So in essence.. they're the best we've got now... but, the league isn't as competitive as it was in the past. And they're not really having to deal with that. Look at the 90's Cowboys and 49ers... it was like a volley of giants to see who was going to the Superbowl.

 

[nibbomydaets]

In all these thread I notice Patriot supporters putting their spin on things and then telling me what I "have to believe." You enjoying your team is wonderful. You arguing or telling me what I "have to believe" is offensive and presumptuous.

 

[nibbomydaets]

Most of the great teams were real good AND had some class.

I'm sorry, please clarify for me. By "class," do you mean Buddy Ryan paying his players to cause injury, or do you mean Kimo doing it for free?-=kwantam

LOL, you think that was something only Buddy Ryan did? I don't think there have been many teams in the history of the league and especially pre-merger that didn't have bounties. Hi, kwantam, welcome to football.

 

[Assani Fisher]

No team can sustain that level of dominance over an entire 16 game season. It's impossible. What makes the Pats special is that they are finding ways to win when they are outplayed. That's the difference between 14-2 and 16-0.

I never felt that Philly could beat the Pats, even when they pushed the Pats D around and hit Brady all night. However, last night I had chalked it up to a loss and so did my friends. The Pats were outplayed and still found the guts and poise to win.

The Pats were worked on both sides of the ball and clearly didn't have the requisite focus. Dropped balls and lack of fire. They should have lost. A 14-2 or 13-3 team loses that game.

But when they needed it in the 4th, that D stiffened up REAL quick. They got the breaks that every great team gets a couple times a year and Brady came up when it mattered.

I completely understand why the haters feel the way they do. But you have to admire a team that can win when they shouldn't..

That's the difference

Your post, especially the bolded part, shows a complete lack of understanding for the amount of luck and variance in sports. The Pats could've lost both of the last two games, and several one or two loss teams of the past could've gone undefeated. Theres a lot of luck in sports from the refs to the random bounces of the ball to the way your opponent plays(for example, if Baltimore plays a bit better then they probably beat the Pats. The Pats got "lucky" that Baltimore didn't play as well as they could've.).

 

[Spartans Rule]

No team can sustain that level of dominance over an entire 16 game season. It's impossible. What makes the Pats special is that they are finding ways to win when they are outplayed. That's the difference between 14-2 and 16-0.

I never felt that Philly could beat the Pats, even when they pushed the Pats D around and hit Brady all night. However, last night I had chalked it up to a loss and so did my friends. The Pats were outplayed and still found the guts and poise to win.

The Pats were worked on both sides of the ball and clearly didn't have the requisite focus. Dropped balls and lack of fire. They should have lost. A 14-2 or 13-3 team loses that game.

But when they needed it in the 4th, that D stiffened up REAL quick. They got the breaks that every great team gets a couple times a year and Brady came up when it mattered.

I completely understand why the haters feel the way they do. But you have to admire a team that can win when they shouldn't..

That's the difference

Your post, especially the bolded part, shows a complete lack of understanding for the amount of luck and variance in sports. The Pats could've lost both of the last two games, and several one or two loss teams of the past could've gone undefeated. Theres a lot of luck in sports from the refs to the random bounces of the ball to the way your opponent plays(for example, if Baltimore plays a bit better then they probably beat the Pats. The Pats got "lucky" that Baltimore didn't play as well as they could've.).

If anything, the better argument for the Pats would be the opposite one, that they've managed to obliterate so many teams and keep all those random variables from having an effect on the result, not that they survived a few games in questionable fashion.

 

[bostonfred]

No team can sustain that level of dominance over an entire 16 game season. It's impossible. What makes the Pats special is that they are finding ways to win when they are outplayed. That's the difference between 14-2 and 16-0.

I never felt that Philly could beat the Pats, even when they pushed the Pats D around and hit Brady all night. However, last night I had chalked it up to a loss and so did my friends. The Pats were outplayed and still found the guts and poise to win.

The Pats were worked on both sides of the ball and clearly didn't have the requisite focus. Dropped balls and lack of fire. They should have lost. A 14-2 or 13-3 team loses that game.

But when they needed it in the 4th, that D stiffened up REAL quick. They got the breaks that every great team gets a couple times a year and Brady came up when it mattered.

I completely understand why the haters feel the way they do. But you have to admire a team that can win when they shouldn't..

That's the difference

Your post, especially the bolded part, shows a complete lack of understanding for the amount of luck and variance in sports. The Pats could've lost both of the last two games, and several one or two loss teams of the past could've gone undefeated. Theres a lot of luck in sports from the refs to the random bounces of the ball to the way your opponent plays(for example, if Baltimore plays a bit better then they probably beat the Pats. The Pats got "lucky" that Baltimore didn't play as well as they could've.).

Devard Darling's long catch was variance. The Ravens defense, #1 in the NFL against the rush, getting to play the Pats on a night when the refs turn a blind eye to holding for most of the game and the wind is swirling, that was also variance. Kyle Boller threading the needle on a touchdown pass early in the second half was variance. The Ravens being on a nationally televised game immediately after the tragic loss of a player who was a friend of many of the players' was variance. Yes, the Patriots getting the benefit of the timeout call late in the game was variance, too, and there were other examples that worked out for the Pats, but you can't make it sound like the Ravens were "supposed to" be able to beat them, and the Pats "got lucky" that Baltimore didn't play better. If you replay this game a hundred times, I'd bet that the way this game worked out was one of the Ravens' best possible outcomes. They were huge underdogs for a reason. If you played a tournament in which you won hand after hand getting all in preflop with 8-3 offsuit, catching your set with pocket jacks against pocket queens, and rivering miracle two outers back and forth, then lost at the final table because your pocket aces got cracked, you can't say you lost the tournament because of bad variance. Overall, you only made it as far as you did in the tournament because of positive variance. Looking at any given play in football or any given hand in poker and saying, they got lucky, only works if you look at that play in a vacuum.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

The difference.. isn't that the Pat's are so "the best team of all time", it's the quality of the league overall. Last years Colts would probably beat them.

So in essence.. they're the best we've got now... but, the league isn't as competitive as it was in the past. And they're not really having to deal with that. Look at the 90's Cowboys and 49ers... it was like a volley of giants to see who was going to the Superbowl.

Wow.You've achieved a new level of the internally inconsistent post.

 

[Assani Fisher]

BostonFred,

My comments were more of a response to his overall point than a commentary on the Ravens/Pats game in particular. OP was claiming that the Pats can somehow magically eek out close victories when they don't play well and a worse team is in the game(or even winning the game) late in the 4th quarter. He was also claiming that some 1 or 2 loss teams of the past lack this "ability." I think thats complete BS. Do you disagree?

I think the Pats are one of the best teams during my lifetime along with the 91 Skins, 85 Bears, and 89 49ers. I think the 96 Pack, 98 Broncos, and 04 Pats are right behind that group. So please don't take my comments as "Pats hating." I think you know by now that I'm above that.

Theres a lot of stupidity imo in the sports world, starting with ESPN and trickling(sp?) on down to the average fan. I just think so many people fail to understand the role of luck and standard deviation in sports. Things like "clutchness" and "will to win" and this thread simply drive me crazy, yet so many people hold to them as absolute truths.

P.S. Feels like I havn't talked to you on the board in forever man....hows it been? Coming to Vegas anytime soon?

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Most of the great teams were real good AND had some class.

I'm sorry, please clarify for me. By "class," do you mean Buddy Ryan paying his players to cause injury, or do you mean Kimo doing it for free?-=kwantam

And the 85 Bears running "The Refridgerator" Perry in for a touchdown while being up big late in the Super Bowl was classy? Oh, and the "Superbowl Shuffle" music video, that was certainly classy?

Excellent posts. Good luck swimming upstream against the Patriots bashing.

 

[Assani Fisher]

The difference.. isn't that the Pat's are so "the best team of all time", it's the quality of the league overall. Last years Colts would probably beat them.

So in essence.. they're the best we've got now... but, the league isn't as competitive as it was in the past. And they're not really having to deal with that. Look at the 90's Cowboys and 49ers... it was like a volley of giants to see who was going to the Superbowl.

I discussed the Cowboys in another post today, so might as well carry over here.....The 1992 Cowboys had 3 losses, one of which was a 31-7 loss to the Eagles. They also lost a home game to the 6-10 L.A. Rams.

The 1993 Cowboys lost 4 games including a 19 point loss to the 4-12 Redskins and a 13 point loss to the 6-10 Falcons.

The 94 49ers lost 3 games including a 40-8 loss to the Eagles who only won 6 other games all year long. Oh and the game was in SF.

The 1995 Cowboys lost 4 games including getting swept by the 6-10(4 win team otherwise) Washington Redskins.

Those teams are overrated imo. Great teams shouldn't lose games like the ones I listed.

 

[freelander]

No team can sustain that level of dominance over an entire 16 game season. It's impossible. What makes the Pats special is that they are finding ways to win when they are outplayed. That's the difference between 14-2 and 16-0.

I never felt that Philly could beat the Pats, even when they pushed the Pats D around and hit Brady all night. However, last night I had chalked it up to a loss and so did my friends. The Pats were outplayed and still found the guts and poise to win.

The Pats were worked on both sides of the ball and clearly didn't have the requisite focus. Dropped balls and lack of fire. They should have lost. A 14-2 or 13-3 team loses that game.

But when they needed it in the 4th, that D stiffened up REAL quick. They got the breaks that every great team gets a couple times a year and Brady came up when it mattered.

I completely understand why the haters feel the way they do. But you have to admire a team that can win when they shouldn't..

That's the difference

Your post, especially the bolded part, shows a complete lack of understanding for the amount of luck and variance in sports. The Pats could've lost both of the last two games, and several one or two loss teams of the past could've gone undefeated. Theres a lot of luck in sports from the refs to the random bounces of the ball to the way your opponent plays(for example, if Baltimore plays a bit better then they probably beat the Pats. The Pats got "lucky" that Baltimore didn't play as well as they could've.).

Devard Darling's long catch was variance. The Ravens defense, #1 in the NFL against the rush, getting to play the Pats on a night when the refs turn a blind eye to holding for most of the game and the wind is swirling, that was also variance. Kyle Boller threading the needle on a touchdown pass early in the second half was variance. The Ravens being on a nationally televised game immediately after the tragic loss of a player who was a friend of many of the players' was variance. Yes, the Patriots getting the benefit of the timeout call late in the game was variance, too, and there were other examples that worked out for the Pats, but you can't make it sound like the Ravens were "supposed to" be able to beat them, and the Pats "got lucky" that Baltimore didn't play better. If you replay this game a hundred times, I'd bet that the way this game worked out was one of the Ravens' best possible outcomes. They were huge underdogs for a reason. If you played a tournament in which you won hand after hand getting all in preflop with 8-3 offsuit, catching your set with pocket jacks against pocket queens, and rivering miracle two outers back and forth, then lost at the final table because your pocket aces got cracked, you can't say you lost the tournament because of bad variance. Overall, you only made it as far as you did in the tournament because of positive variance. Looking at any given play in football or any given hand in poker and saying, they got lucky, only works if you look at that play in a vacuum.

Those aren't variances, they are "talking points" for you Pats fans to comfort yourself when you know you truly were lucky to win that game.

 

[Shrek]

I KNEW IT...I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT!!!



As I watched the last few seconds tick off the NE/BAL game, I was thinking the ONLY thing worse than the smug and whiney Patriots actually winning that gifted game was listening to another week of "THE GOOD TEAMS FIND WAYS TO WIN."

How about this...the good teams don't almost lose to Kyle Boller.

... or AJ Feeley.BTW "finding a way to win" is equivalent to having a few more players on the field for your team (wearing black and white)

Is your alter ego Phlatemagic? You guys spew all the same stuff. "Toxic waste."

And you're just as much of an ###- except a different color. Your blind homerism and the fact that you think everyone wants to hear your two cents about their Patriot comments is just as irritating, if not more. Try some abstinence once. People don't care what you think half as much as you do.

 

[greenline]

I KNEW IT...I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT!!!



As I watched the last few seconds tick off the NE/BAL game, I was thinking the ONLY thing worse than the smug and whiney Patriots actually winning that gifted game was listening to another week of "THE GOOD TEAMS FIND WAYS TO WIN."

How about this...the good teams don't almost lose to Kyle Boller.

... or AJ Feeley.BTW "finding a way to win" is equivalent to having a few more players on the field for your team (wearing black and white)

Is your alter ego Phlatemagic? You guys spew all the same stuff. "Toxic waste."

And you're just as much of an ###- except a different color. Your blind homerism and the fact that you think everyone wants to hear your two cents about their Patriot comments is just as irritating, if not more. Try some abstinence once. People don't care what you think half as much as you do.

Link?

 

[Shrek]

I KNEW IT...I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT!!!



As I watched the last few seconds tick off the NE/BAL game, I was thinking the ONLY thing worse than the smug and whiney Patriots actually winning that gifted game was listening to another week of "THE GOOD TEAMS FIND WAYS TO WIN."

How about this...the good teams don't almost lose to Kyle Boller.

... or AJ Feeley.BTW "finding a way to win" is equivalent to having a few more players on the field for your team (wearing black and white)

Is your alter ego Phlatemagic? You guys spew all the same stuff. "Toxic waste."

And you're just as much of an ###- except a different color. Your blind homerism and the fact that you think everyone wants to hear your two cents about their Patriot comments is just as irritating, if not more. Try some abstinence once. People don't care what you think half as much as you do.

Link?

Link

 

[greenline]

I KNEW IT...I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT!!!



As I watched the last few seconds tick off the NE/BAL game, I was thinking the ONLY thing worse than the smug and whiney Patriots actually winning that gifted game was listening to another week of "THE GOOD TEAMS FIND WAYS TO WIN."

How about this...the good teams don't almost lose to Kyle Boller.

... or AJ Feeley.BTW "finding a way to win" is equivalent to having a few more players on the field for your team (wearing black and white)

Is your alter ego Phlatemagic? You guys spew all the same stuff. "Toxic waste."

And you're just as much of an ###- except a different color. Your blind homerism and the fact that you think everyone wants to hear your two cents about their Patriot comments is just as irritating, if not more. Try some abstinence once. People don't care what you think half as much as you do.

Link?

Link

Board MessageSorry, an error occurred. If you are unsure on how to use a feature, or don't know why you got this error message, try looking through the help files for more information.

The error returned was:

Sorry, but you do not have permission to use this feature. If you are not logged in, you may do so using the form below if available.

 

[rick6668]

Most of the great teams were real good AND had some class.

I'm sorry, please clarify for me. By "class," do you mean Buddy Ryan paying his players to cause injury, or do you mean Kimo doing it for free?-=kwantam

And the 85 Bears running "The Refridgerator" Perry in for a touchdown while being up big late in the Super Bowl was classy? Oh, and the "Superbowl Shuffle" music video, that was certainly classy?

You don't know what you're talking about.The Bears did play that Superbowl with class.

I'm thinking you're still not over the Patriots "Loss" in the Superbowl.

 

[greenline]

I KNEW IT...I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT!!!



As I watched the last few seconds tick off the NE/BAL game, I was thinking the ONLY thing worse than the smug and whiney Patriots actually winning that gifted game was listening to another week of "THE GOOD TEAMS FIND WAYS TO WIN."

How about this...the good teams don't almost lose to Kyle Boller.

... or AJ Feeley.BTW "finding a way to win" is equivalent to having a few more players on the field for your team (wearing black and white)

Is your alter ego Phlatemagic? You guys spew all the same stuff. "Toxic waste."

And you're just as much of an ###- except a different color. Your blind homerism and the fact that you think everyone wants to hear your two cents about their Patriot comments is just as irritating, if not more. Try some abstinence once. People don't care what you think half as much as you do.

Link?

Link

Board MessageSorry, an error occurred. If you are unsure on how to use a feature, or don't know why you got this error message, try looking through the help files for more information.

The error returned was:

Sorry, but you do not have permission to use this feature. If you are not logged in, you may do so using the form below if available.

That's not a very convincing argument, Shrek.

 

[twitch]

I'll say this about what NE's doing right now. Theyre hanging in against a much tougher 'schedule' than most want to give them credit for. And by that, I dont mean purely from a SOS standpoint. NE has to this point now played 7 of their 8 scheduled road games. And theyre about to play 3 straight home games, where theyre 19-1 in their last 20 games since 2003 after week 10 (fact, courtesy of Chase Stuart). But what's impressive really about their recent schedule is playing 3 straight prime time games in a row - 2 Sunday night games and this past Monday night. That's gotta be a pain in the butt for a team to deal with week after week after week. You know theyre just wanting a regularly scheduled afternoon game right now. But to have to maintain that focus and channel the nessecary intensity for 3 consecutive night games is testament to just how focused these guys are. To still be unbeaten to this point, having played Indy and Dallas both on the road, and now getting everyone's "Superbowl" game, even from the 'lesser' teams, with the mounting 'pressure', is just flat impressive.

 

[Statler & Waldorf]

Most of the great teams were real good AND had some class.

I'm sorry, please clarify for me. By "class," do you mean Buddy Ryan paying his players to cause injury, or do you mean Kimo doing it for free?-=kwantam

And the 85 Bears running "The Refridgerator" Perry in for a touchdown while being up big late in the Super Bowl was classy? Oh, and the "Superbowl Shuffle" music video, that was certainly classy?

The Super Bowl Shuffle! That was good stuff. That actually got a Grammy nomination too.

 

[kwantam]

LOL, you think that was something only Buddy Ryan did? I don't think there have been many teams in the history of the league and especially pre-merger that didn't have bounties. Hi, kwantam, welcome to football.

Hold the phone, are you telling me that lots of teams cheat?Soooooooooooooooo does that mean that they all need some stars next to their names?Oh, wait, I see, it's only classless if you're caught. That's why the Patriots are cheaters but everyone else who steals defensive signals is not.This also explains why all those untold hundreds of players who were paid bounties over the years are super classy. They had the class not to get caught.I got it now. Thanks so much for clearing it up!-=kwantam

 

[Statcruncher]

Most of the great teams were real good AND had some class.

I'm sorry, please clarify for me. By "class," do you mean Buddy Ryan paying his players to cause injury, or do you mean Kimo doing it for free?-=kwantam

And the 85 Bears running "The Refridgerator" Perry in for a touchdown while being up big late in the Super Bowl was classy? Oh, and the "Superbowl Shuffle" music video, that was certainly classy?

Excellent posts. Good luck swimming upstream against the Patriots bashing.

If you are going to call out someone for being classless you had better get your facts correct before you start typing. The Bears used the Fridge in the backfield ALL SEASON in goalline situations since he was such an lead effective blocker. On occasion they had found that they could catch the D waiting for Payton by feeding the lead blocker Fridge the ball. In case you didn't know the touchdown Fridge pounded in during the Super Bowl was his 3rd TD of the year (2 rushing and 1 receiving). If you truly think that using a goal line battering ram that has worked all year long is disrespecting the '85 Patriots you need to get out more. Are you suggesting that the Bears should have taken a knee or punted? Besides don't the Pats currently use Vrabel as an extremely effective goalline weapon Mr. Kettle? I'm sorry your team ran into a buzzsaw over 2 decades ago but at some point you need to let it go. Yes, I was ashamed as a fan that they put out the Super Bowl Shuffle. Don't forget, the Patriots also put out a cheesy video in 1985 (where they push a fridge off a cliff). The only difference is theirs was quickly forgotten as they didn't back it up. Stay classy Pats fans.