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The Godfather - Premiered 50 Years Ago Today (1 Viewer)

zamboni said:
Didn't hear about this. I'm in - where is it supposed to be streaming?
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supposedly later next month is the full "go", though i do believe it's been delayed prior. 

hoping they flesh Joe Colombo out a bit more ... long before Gotti, he was the first Don to "go public", with his Italian American League, which was a very huge movement here circa early 70s. 

he was the force behind the studio having to drop the word "Mafia" from the script, and from pretty much anything else that was being produced around that time. 

it was Joe Profaci's family, and it should've kept his name - the war between the Profaci & Gallo factions in the early 60s claimed my Uncle Frank.

this was the most storied and publicized family through that era, what with Crazy Joe Gallo getting released from Attica and continuing his war against the Profaci side, now headed by Colombo. 

long standing rumor that it was Gallo who hired Colombo's assassin, as Crazy Joe cozied up to some black gangsters while in prison. 

matter of fact, Frankie Pantangelli is based on Profaci, and when he laments the Rosato brothers using hispanic and blacks (though old man Frankie used the pejorative words in the movie), it was a direct reference to the Gallos, who they were based on. 

of course, Joey had to answer, and it came in the wee hours at the storied Umberto's Clam House in the Village. 

there's a great story there, deserving of a more serious exposition than 1971's "The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight" ... a comedy which was based on the Gallos.

so i'm pretty optimistic this touches on that storyline much better, as the bones of it's premise cannot be taken seriously without a heavy Colombo presence. 

 
I still haven't seen the third part since it debuted in 1990. One of these days I'll get around to it just for nostalgia's sake.

 
otb_lifer said:
Coppola had himself a decade:

Godfather, The Conversation, Godfather II, Apocalypse Now. 
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Swap Apocalypse Now for The Deer Hunter, and add Dog Day Afternoon, and you could say the same for John Cazale.

Perhaps the best pound-for-pound acting performance in movie history.

 
zamboni said:
Swap Apocalypse Now for The Deer Hunter, and add Dog Day Afternoon, and you could say the same for John Cazale.

Perhaps the best pound-for-pound acting performance in movie history.
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THANKS, BUT I MEANT DIRECTORS.  

😎

he appeared in only 5 films, all best pic nominees ... Fredo is tough to top, but, man ... Stosh (Deer Hunter) sure comes close. 

 
zamboni said:
Swap Apocalypse Now for The Deer Hunter, and add Dog Day Afternoon, and you could say the same for John Cazale.

Perhaps the best pound-for-pound acting performance in movie history.
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THIS GUY was an incredible actor.   He leapt off the screen in The Godfather then I saw him in THIS FILM and he stood out once again and I instantly recognized him from The Godfather and wondered why he never made it big so I looked up his bio and sadly discovered the following:

"He really hit his strides in the early 1970s starring in many high profile films, before unfortunately succumbing to a heart attack at just 47 years of age. One of the most convincing "heavies" of modern cinema."
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He was dead only three years after the Godfather or I'm certain he would have had a much greater career.

Francis Ford Coppola said that Al was the only actor besides John Wayne who was completely barrel-chested.

 
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Bracie Smathers said:
zamboni said:
Swap Apocalypse Now for The Deer Hunter, and add Dog Day Afternoon, and you could say the same for John Cazale.

Perhaps the best pound-for-pound acting performance in movie history.
Click to expand...
THIS GUY was an incredible actor.   He leapt off the screen in The Godfather then I saw him in THIS FILM and he stood out once again and I instantly recognized him from The Godfather and wondered why he never made it big so I looked up his bio and sadly discovered the following:

"He really hit his strides in the early 1970s starring in many high profile films, before unfortunately succumbing to a heart attack at just 47 years of age. One of the most convincing "heavies" of modern cinema."
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He was dead only three years after the Godfather or I'm certain he would have had a great career.
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Totally agree - I think Sollozzo and Don Fanucci are the most unheralded characters in the first two films given their limited screen time.

 
OK, THIS is funny.

I caught this scene the other day on a reaction video and the actors carrying Marlon up the stairs were reallllllllllly struuggling.

During an early shot of the scene where Vito Corleone returns home and his people carry him up the stairs, Marlon Brando put weights under his body on the bed as a prank, to make it harder to lift him.

 
Cjw_55106 said:
What genius decided to release it after the 50th anniversary? On the exact date would seem the proper thing to do. 
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It premiered today, but just in one theatre. Wide release was March 24th.

From Wikipedia: “The Godfather premiered at the Loew's State Theatre on March 14, 1972, and was widely released in the United States on March 24, 1972.”

 
Bracie Smathers said:
OK, THIS is funny.

I caught this scene the other day on a reaction video and the actors carrying Marlon up the stairs were reallllllllllly struuggling.

During an early shot of the scene where Vito Corleone returns home and his people carry him up the stairs, Marlon Brando put weights under his body on the bed as a prank, to make it harder to lift him.
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Yeah, I heard that story (said in a Jack Woltz voice).

Brando was supposedly quite the prankster.

 
Don Quixote said:
It premiered today, but just in one theatre. Wide release was March 24th.

From Wikipedia: “The Godfather premiered at the Loew's State Theatre on March 14, 1972, and was widely released in the United States on March 24, 1972.”
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Yes - hence the word "premiere" in the title. It was aired in NYC on March 14 and 15, then more widely several days later.

 
AAABatteries said:
Probably the movie I’ve watched the most in my life - definitely top 5.  
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Are there any big plot holes in this movie?  I think of other massive movies I've watched multiple times and over time I usually end up finding a few things that don't add up.  With so many characters and intertwined plot lines, I would think there would be a few known contradictions.  For me, Sonny's death doesn't quite make sense - in the way it was set up and then how Carlo wasn't immediately killed - but its really not a plot hole as much as something that's just a little far fetched.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Are there any big plot holes in this movie?  I think of other massive movies I've watched multiple times and over time I usually end up finding a few things that don't add up.  With so many characters and intertwined plot lines, I would think there would be a few known contradictions.  For me, Sonny's death doesn't quite make sense - in the way it was set up and then how Carlo wasn't immediately killed - but its really not a plot hole as much as something that's just a little far fetched.
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I wouldn't say Sonny's death was a plot hole, but certainly some far-fetched moments as you say. Like being able to aborb around 200 machine gun bullets before dropping.

As for Carlo, he wasn't immediately killed because he was Connie's husband - that made sense to me.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Are there any big plot holes in this movie?  I think of other massive movies I've watched multiple times and over time I usually end up finding a few things that don't add up.  With so many characters and intertwined plot lines, I would think there would be a few known contradictions.  For me, Sonny's death doesn't quite make sense - in the way it was set up and then how Carlo wasn't immediately killed - but its really not a plot hole as much as something that's just a little far fetched.
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sending Luca Brasi to his sure death at the hands of Tattaglia/Solozzo was a mistake Don Vito would've never made ... his death is more troubling than Sonny's  because i never thought Sonny a good Don, may he rest in peace - but we all knew that was coming.

so, maybe not really a plot hole, as it illustrated Sonny's stunod streak. 

 
zamboni said:
Swap Apocalypse Now for The Deer Hunter, and add Dog Day Afternoon, and you could say the same for John Cazale.

Perhaps the best pound-for-pound acting performance in movie history.
Click to expand...
youre smaaaaaaaat!

 
zamboni said:
Swap Apocalypse Now for The Deer Hunter, and add Dog Day Afternoon, and you could say the same for John Cazale.

Perhaps the best pound-for-pound acting performance in movie history.
Click to expand...


I fully expect that he would have had an 'Ernest Saves the World' type fall in his future.

We'll never know

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Are there any big plot holes in this movie?  I think of other massive movies I've watched multiple times and over time I usually end up finding a few things that don't add up.  With so many characters and intertwined plot lines, I would think there would be a few known contradictions.  For me, Sonny's death doesn't quite make sense - in the way it was set up and then how Carlo wasn't immediately killed - but its really not a plot hole as much as something that's just a little far fetched.
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I know people will disagree with me and argue that this part of the story is just told very subtly, but I don't think there's actually anything in the film to support the idea that Barzini was the mastermind behind the events of the movie.  I don't have a problem with that particular plot development, but it's one of the very few things in the film that it tells us instead of showing us.

(Actually, I think the film tells us that Barzini was the mastermind so as to show how insightful Vito is.  If the film dropped breadcrumbs about Barzini so that we figured it out too, then Vito wouldn't look quite so wise when he drops that plot twist on Michael.  This is The Godfather's way of showing us that Vito has the spidey sense that you would associate with a successful mafioso.)

 
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IvanKaramazov said:
I know people will disagree with me and argue that this part of the story is just told very subtly, but I don't think there's actually anything in the film to support the idea that Barzini was the mastermind behind the events of the movie.  I don't have a problem with that particular plot development, but it's one of the very few things in the film that it tells us instead of showing us.

(Actually, I think the film tells us that Barzini was the mastermind so as to show how insightful Vito is.  If the film dropped breadcrumbs about Barzini so that we figured it out too, then Vito wouldn't look quite so wise when he drops that plot twist on Michael.  This is The Godfather's way of showing us that Vito has the spidey sense that you would associate with a successful mafioso.)
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I'm confused by your post - are you suggesting that there's nothing in the film up until the line "But I didn't know until this day that it was Barzini all along" that supports Barzini being the mastermind?  If so, there's really not much about Sollozzo's business that is shown in the film - I mean, he mentions the Tattaglias and compliments Tom on finding that out.  Whether Sollozo and Barzini were trying to setup the Tattaglias or Barzini was just playing puppet-master with Sollozo and the Tattaglias I have no clue but either way we don't see any of those meetings.

Not sure if any of that is explained in the book - speaking of, how many of you have read the book and is it worth a read?

 
AAABatteries said:
Not sure if any of that is explained in the book - speaking of, how many of you have read the book and is it worth a read?
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i read it on the beach like everyone else, but that was 51 yrs ago...................................................... i dont remember being pissed off about unfaithfulness to the novel like i had been with Catch-22 and currently was with Slaughterhouse Five, which was released around the same time. but that was the extent of my memory

i dont remember anything chess-like about Barzini, just that he was able to hide his actions behind the more obviously-aggressive Tattaglias.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
I know people will disagree with me and argue that this part of the story is just told very subtly, but I don't think there's actually anything in the film to support the idea that Barzini was the mastermind behind the events of the movie.  I don't have a problem with that particular plot development, but it's one of the very few things in the film that it tells us instead of showing us.

(Actually, I think the film tells us that Barzini was the mastermind so as to show how insightful Vito is.  If the film dropped breadcrumbs about Barzini so that we figured it out too, then Vito wouldn't look quite so wise when he drops that plot twist on Michael.  This is The Godfather's way of showing us that Vito has the spidey sense that you would associate with a successful mafioso.)
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Barzini brokered the commission meeting, and acted as the emissary of peace between the Tattaglias/Corleones ... he also had the plan for moving ahead, and for what each family's role would be - that's all Don Vito needed to see to know who the real power was - Barzini ran that room ... Vito was right - Tattaglia was a pimp, he could've never outfought Sonny & the Corleones. 

 
wikkidpissah said:
i read it on the beach like everyone else, but that was 51 yrs ago...................................................... i dont remember being pissed off about unfaithfulness to the novel like i had been with Catch-22 and currently was with Slaughterhouse Five, which was released around the same time. but that was the extent of my memory

i dont remember anything chess-like about Barzini, just that he was able to hide his actions behind the more obviously-aggressive Tattaglias.
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The Catch 22 movie is quite good if you watch it with some distance from the novel. 

 
The one thing I didn't like about the film was the fact that they had to explain the dead fish. It's a Sicilian message, Luca sleeps with the fishes. Fine. I get that it needed to be explained to the audience - but they needed to explain it to Sonny?  

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Are there any big plot holes in this movie?  I think of other massive movies I've watched multiple times and over time I usually end up finding a few things that don't add up.  With so many characters and intertwined plot lines, I would think there would be a few known contradictions.  For me, Sonny's death doesn't quite make sense - in the way it was set up and then how Carlo wasn't immediately killed - but its really not a plot hole as much as something that's just a little far fetched.
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Sonny's death is a plot hole in the sense that Carlo did something that no mobster with an ounce of self-preservation would have done. It's a contrived plot device.

Another one is the plan to have Luca Brasi -- the family's most loyal soldier -- pretend to switch sides. COME ON!

I also think that Fredo's plotline got a little lazy. I mean, I can believe that he would talk to Roth. But having Fredo tell Roth where Michael's family sleeps? (WHERE HIS CHILDREN PLAY WITH THEIR TOYS!!!) That's a stretch, IMO.  Besides, Fredo didn't have to move the curtains to reveal where the bedroom was. And then Coppola has Fredo willingly go fishing without his nephew?? He took away Fredo's single-most defining instinct -- cowardly self-preservation -- for the sole purpose of advancing the plot.

At least Coppola had the good sense to replace Clemenza with Pentangeli. If he would have had Clemenza be the traitor, then it would have ruined everything that Deniro and Kirby created during the flashback.

Anyway, I'm just nitpicking. Both movies are as close to perfect as you'll find on celluloid.

 
[scooter] said:
CletiusMaximus said:
Are there any big plot holes in this movie?  ... Sonny's death doesn't quite make sense - in the way it was set up and then how Carlo wasn't immediately killed - but its really not a plot hole as much as something that's just a little far fetched.
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Sonny's death is a plot hole
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Carlo beats Connie, which sets into motion the complex Sonny assassination plan.

The plan was after the beating, to have multiple gunmen waiting and ready to kill Sonny at the freeway.  Having multiple gunmen with cars  blocking means they would have to KNOW he'd be there.  

The complex assassination plan begins with some girl phoning asking for Carlo with Connie answering.  Carlo enters and THE PLAN was that they would know that she'd go off on Carlo who would beat Connie severely to the point that Connie would instantly phone Sonny.  Timing was be crucial since they had multiple gunmen and cars ready to block Sonny at the freeway. 

In a later scene we see the last thing Connie would want was for Sonny to beat or kill Carlo so she would not immediately call Sonny.  

The next part of the PLAN was that Sonny would go ballistic and leave a well guarded compound, in the middle of a mob war, without any protection as soon as he got the call.  Tom Hagen told guys to go with Sonny so the plan was all based on Connie immediately phoning Sonny, Sonny losing his mind and ditching all protection, and for the assassins to kill Sonny before any protection got there.  

If Carlo was against the family and had THAT MUCH information on the inner workings of the Corleone family he'd figure out a better plan and he'd realize they would figure out his betrayal and they would kill him. 

It is the weakest plot point in an excellent movie.  I cringe at the logic but the killing of Sonny is a vivid scene so most tend to overlook how the weakest plot point set up that scene.

 
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IvanKaramazov said:
If the film dropped breadcrumbs about Barzini so that we figured it out too, then Vito wouldn't look quite so wise when he drops that plot twist on Michael.  This is The Godfather's way of showing us that Vito has the spidey sense that you would associate with a successful mafioso.)
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Would this be a bread crumb: when Michael offers to buy out Moe Greene, he implies Moe has been skimming and that the family might do better. Greene responds that he has an offer from Barzini which would allow him to keep his casino.

On the surface, that doesn't make much sense. Barzini has the same intel as the Corleone's, so why would he bankroll someone who he knew was stealing from him, instead of taking over, unless he had a larger plan to undermine the Corleone business interests.

I agree with your premise. Barzini let Coppola connect a lot of dots. 

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Yes, this.  
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But what supports Tattaglia being the mastermind?  Or would you make the same comment about him?  Sollozzo is the only one who discusses their dealings and unless I’m not recalling a scene we see exactly what the Corleones do.

Sorry, not trying to be obtuse just trying to understand the point.

 
AAABatteries said:
But what supports Tattaglia being the mastermind?  Or would you make the same comment about him?  Sollozzo is the only one who discusses their dealings and unless I’m not recalling a scene we see exactly what the Corleones do.

Sorry, not trying to be obtuse just trying to understand the point.
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It's not intended as criticism.  Just that the Barzini thing is presented as exposition by Vito out of nowhere.  In a weaker movie, this would be worth quibbling over -- it's kind of trivial considering how good this film is.  

 
wikkidpissah said:
i've made my peace with it, but it was my favorite all-time novel when the movie came out. never been more furied by an entertainment
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Yeah I totally get that. The novel is incredible. I really would love to find time to re-read it. It’s been a decade at least.

 
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