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The Hard Truth (1 Viewer)

Why is it the "hard Truth"??

Link to your projections please.
I think his point is that making such detailed player projections is a lost cause, and you should just go into a draft with a general idea of each player and what you expect.
:lmao: I do detailed projections and I pretty much kick everybody's ###.

Creating detailed projections is an essential part of completely understanding each players factors IMHO. If one disagrees, they should jump in a league with me and see what happens.
Since Im pretty sure you have no plans on posting your projections....any chance you can PM me your projections?
 
Why is it the "hard Truth"??

Link to your projections please.
I think his point is that making such detailed player projections is a lost cause, and you should just go into a draft with a general idea of each player and what you expect.
:lmao: I do detailed projections and I pretty much kick everybody's ###.

Creating detailed projections is an essential part of completely understanding each players factors IMHO. If one disagrees, they should jump in a league with me and see what happens.
IN
 
I think David does a pretty darn good job with FBG projections. I would love to see a direct comparison with other sites' projections that I also consider pretty decent through the years... specifically footballdocs.com and fftoday.com :popcorn:

There is something to be said for solid projections. For one, it helps you immediately screen how credible a site is... putting projections together that are decent is tough work and opens so many more doors to getting criticized. It is a lot easier to just slap a list of names up there in a touchy-feely fashion... BUT, to combine analytical power with analysis and NFL news is an entirely different ball game. The true power in GOOD projections is in applications where you can input your scoring system and have it rank players for your system. Provided you have good projections, that takes things to an entirely different level. Someone had already mentioned the DD, but I felt the need to elaborate.

 
I pretty much kick everybody's ###.
:lmao: I notice that your last place finish in No Mercy Grubs isn't in your sig. I guess if you enter enough leagues, you'll have at least a few good results to post there.

Also, when is your WR critique coming out? I noticed the RB and QB ones only came after I published mine. Is the big wait on the WR because you're waiting to crib off my analysis there, too?

 
Also, when is your WR critique coming out? I noticed the RB and QB ones only came after I published mine. Is the big wait on the WR because you're waiting to crib off my analysis there, too?
When you do anything meaningful in this hobby get back to me...until then you'll always be the guy that talks big but has never done #### to back it up.
 
Also, when is your WR critique coming out?  I noticed the RB and QB ones only came after I published mine.  Is the big wait on the WR because you're waiting to crib off my analysis there, too?
When you do anything meaningful in this hobby get back to me...until then you'll always be the guy that talks big but has never done #### to back it up.
:lmao: You two both need to lighten up. Can you imagine harrier and diesel having a beer with one another? That could get ugly pretty quickly. :P
 
Also, when is your WR critique coming out?  I noticed the RB and QB ones only came after I published mine.  Is the big wait on the WR because you're waiting to crib off my analysis there, too?
When you do anything meaningful in this hobby get back to me...until then you'll always be the guy that talks big but has never done #### to back it up.
:lmao: You two both need to lighten up. Can you imagine harrier and diesel having a beer with one another? That could get ugly pretty quickly. :P
Hey, don't lump me in with Harrier. I actually contribute.EDIT to add: And WTF? Im worse than LHUCKS now? Are we assuming the words "Pac" and "10" haven't been mentioned?

 
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It's not like he's saying "dude, I was a warrior for playing in the Super Bowl.  I could have ended my career, and my QB didn't even care.  All he did was bend over and throw up."
OMG...was that out of his book?...#$#$ing priceless!! :lmao:
whose, LHUCKS?
 
When you do anything meaningful in this hobby
When you starting taking your relaxing hobby this seriously--between this and the "I always kick ###" shtick--well, you might want to find a new hobby.
 
When you do anything meaningful in this hobby
When you starting taking your relaxing hobby this seriously--between this and the "I always kick ###" shtick--well, you might want to find a new hobby.
kill yourself.
 
MODESTY LEAGUE RANKINGS

Team 1 .................  10-3

Team 2 ...................  8-5

Team 3 ...................  7-6

Team 4 ...................  7-6

Team 5 ...................  7-6

Team LHUCKS .......  0-13

:P   :P
The analysis and moreso its conclusions are totally flawed...it annoyed me because it's totally misleading in terms of showing people how to become better at ff. It's a veiled shot at FBG...and I just get sick of the shots, especially when they lack the necessary substance. Almost every big time ff'er I know frequents this site, there's a reason for that and it's not because projectsions in general have a low percentage of accuracy...which is something every statistician would have told you before this study, in addition to anyone who has experience with projections.
My point is that projections from FBG have been inaccurate, despite the time and effort put into them. Drafting completely off projections are of little use because we can't see the future. I don't see how this article is a veiled shot at FBG, and if they took it that way, then I apologize. I certainly didn't intend it to be. I like FBG. I post and lurk (mainly lurk) here year round (my only message board, btw). I've subscribed the past three years. I think they do as good a job as you can do with projections. I noted that I don't have a comparison with other sites projections and that the methodology that I may have used to determine what is accurate and inaccurate could be up for debate.

I think there are some other ways to go with these projections (comparison with other sites, comparison with actuals on a PPG basis, rather than a total). You can dissect the information any number of ways. If anyone wants my excel spreadsheets of analysis and projections and actual stats, I'd be happy to forward them, especially if one was going to do more analysis on them. I'm sure there's more to do, but I'm burnt out on that particular project.

 
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Submitted this article to FBG:

FOOTBALLGUYS.COM PROJECTIONS ANALYSIS

2001-2005

Overview

When I began this project of evaluating the projections of Footballguys.com, it was initially an attempt to quantify the variance of wide receivers performance with their projected performance, hopefully gaining some insight as to the definite worth of wide receivers during the draft. Once I had gotten all the projections and statistics together, I simply expanded the scope to include the other main positions – quarterbacks, running backs and tight ends. It became an enlightening, if not startling endeavor, to say the least. This analysis is not meant to be a critique of the projections at Footballguys.com, but rather an indication of the true worth of projections, regardless of source.

Method

As we all know, due to the popularity of fantasy football, the scoring systems used in this hobby vary widely. For the sake of this study, I assigned 1 point per ten yards rushing and receiving, 6 points per touchdown rushed or received, 1 point per 20 yards passing and 4 points per passing touchdown. I also assumed that a standard league would contain 12 teams, starting 1 quarterback, 2 running backs, 2 wide receivers and a tight end. My final statistics were derived from the Historical Data Dominator on Footballguys.com, and the projections used were from the VBD excel spreadsheets provided at Footballguys.com. Bruce Henderson and other FBG were kind enough to forward me copies of years not available on the site.

Once I compiled all stats and projections into one spreadsheet per year and the appropriate fantasy points for each set of data, I calculated the deviation of actual fantasy points to projected fantasy points for the starters in the league and for the league as a whole. I assumed that there would be 30 quarterbacks in the league, 60 running backs, 60 wide receivers and 30 tight ends. I designated each deviation that fell within 15% of projected fantasy stats as “generally correct” and each deviation that fell outside of 50% of projected fantasy stats, either way, as “inaccurate”. These percentages, while arbitrary, seemed to be reasonable assumptions. I’m sure cases can be made for other percentages or bench marks. The other shortcoming in all this is the source of the projections. I have not quantified how accurate the projections are in comparison with projections from other sources, and have gone forward with the assumption that the projections are reasonable, rational estimations of fantasy productivity.

Results

Starting Quarterbacks Entire Draft Population

Year St. Dev. "Correct" Pct. "Inaccurate" Pct. St. Dev. "Correct" Pct. "Inaccurate" Pct.

2001 106.14 7 58.33% 2 16.67% 92.79 14 46.67% 4 13.33%

2002 97.1 7 58.33% 2 16.67% 96.5 12 40.00% 9 30.00%

2003 114.77 7 58.33% 3 25.00% 110.08 12 40.00% 11 36.67%

2004 70.3 6 50.00% 1 8.33% 92.86 12 40.00% 7 23.33%

2005 71.98 7 58.33% 1 8.33% 81.28 12 40.00% 4 13.33%

Total 92.06 6.8 56.67% 1.80 15.00% 94.70 12.4 41.33% 7.00 23.33%

Starting Running Backs Entire Draft Population

Year St. Dev. "Correct" Pct. "Inaccurate" Pct. St. Dev. "Correct" Pct. "Inaccurate" Pct.

2001 86.49 6 25.00% 7 29.17% 86.97 11 18.33% 25 41.67%

2002 67.31 8 33.33% 2 8.33% 65.1 14 23.33% 20 33.33%

2003 74.15 6 25.00% 6 25.00% 64.11 17 28.33% 21 35.00%

2004 74.89 4 16.67% 5 20.83% 66.43 13 21.67% 20 33.33%

2005 73.74 7 29.17% 5 20.83% 65 21 35.00% 18 30.00%

Total 75.316 6.2 25.83% 5 20.83% 69.522 15.2 25.33% 20.8 34.67%

Starting Wide Receivers Entire Draft Population

Year St. Dev. "Correct" Pct. "Inaccurate" Pct. St. Dev. "Correct" Pct. "Inaccurate" Pct.

2001 54.14 6 25.00% 5 20.83% 53.32 12 20.00% 18 30.00%

2002 36.53 10 41.67% 1 4.17% 46.12 21 35.00% 14 23.33%

2003 50.13 4 16.67% 4 16.67% 47.48 9 15.00% 15 25.00%

2004 58.92 12 50.00% 3 12.50% 57.71 16 26.67% 19 31.67%

2005 63.01 7 29.17% 7 29.17% 54 18 30.00% 18 30.00%

Total 52.546 7.8 32.50% 4 16.67% 51.726 15.2 25.33% 16.8 28.00%

Starting Tight Ends Entire Draft Population

Year St. Dev. "Correct" Pct. "Inaccurate" Pct. St. Dev. "Correct" Pct. "Inaccurate" Pct.

2001 30.65 4 33.33% 2 16.67% 28.97 5 16.67% 8 26.67%

2002 24.86 3 25.00% 4 33.33% 27.25 7 23.33% 12 40.00%

2003 32.61 4 33.33% 3 25.00% 29.99 6 20.00% 15 50.00%

2004 40.54 2 16.67% 3 25.00% 38.53 3 10.00% 11 36.67%

2005 32.10 5 41.67% 1 8.33% 27.00 9 30.00% 9 30.00%

Total 32.15 3.6 30.00% 2.60 21.67% 30.35 6 20.00% 11.00 36.67%

The initial observation is that the accuracy for quarterbacks, being correct about 50% of the time, and the draft population of quarterbacks as a whole being 40% correct is definitely greater than that of other positions. The other positions were only correct one-fourth to one-third of the time.

But even more surprising than that is the general inaccuracy of all positions. About one in three starters is going to be “correctly” projected. Another one in five is going to be not in the same ballpark that you projected, while the other forty percent is somewhere in between. The accuracy gets worse once you move away from the projected starters.

Analysis of Results

Bluntly put, projections aren’t that trustworthy, even good ones. Like I said Different sources would more than likely have little or no statistical difference. The reason for the inaccuracy is that football is a complex and violent game. Injuries occur, players fail to progress or fail to keep up with other players competing for playing time. We all want to think we “know” the game, but we can’t truly know what’s going to happen, from a standpoint of how all twenty-two players on the field, dozens of coaches and hours of practice are going to actually play out for the purposes of our fantasy game. We can only make educated guesses, based upon limited observations on Sunday, some statistical analysis and whatever information we can glean from the media. Our alternative to inherently and inevitably fallible projections? None. We have to make some educated guess, otherwise we might as well pick names out of a hat.

The moral of this lesson? Well, staying the course on the draft is a rational plan – VBD to hopefully maximize the “value” of our picks, but I think we need to add to that a willingness to have fun. Relax, draft the players you want, even it means forfeiting some of their perceived “value”, and enjoy yourself. The end result of our draft is mainly out of our control.
I think the major flaw in this article is the lack of alternatives (both in the analysis and in final direction). Proper analysis should include other projections and even other rankings (including ADP). If FBG projections are accurate at a 25% rate, that would seem very bad. However, if other projections and rankings were accurate to 15%, then the FBG projections are suddenly quite accurate in comparison.The final advice of drafting who you want and having fun seems a bit off as well. Having fun is cool, but there must be some form of ranking or projections in order to determine who you want. The article doesn't address how to obtain that ranking or projection.

 
I think the major flaw in this article is the lack of alternatives (both in the analysis and in final direction). Proper analysis should include other projections and even other rankings (including ADP). If FBG projections are accurate at a 25% rate, that would seem very bad. However, if other projections and rankings were accurate to 15%, then the FBG projections are suddenly quite accurate in comparison.

The final advice of drafting who you want and having fun seems a bit off as well. Having fun is cool, but there must be some form of ranking or projections in order to determine who you want. The article doesn't address how to obtain that ranking or projection.
This kind of feedback is one of the reasons that I place FBGs above the rest. Knowing where you can improve is invaluable :excited: But back to the topic. It would certainly be interesting to see the percentage success using ADP. At least then we could establish whether FBGs performed above or below the level obtained by simply drafting according to ADP. If some rival sites could be studied, that would be interesting too. It would be a huge undertaking though.

 
It would be interesting to compare projections to ADP and AVT.

But on to my point. A lot of people have been saying that you don't have to outrun the bear, you just have to outrun whomever else is running away from the bear. And while it's true that your projections will win you a league if they are more accurate than anyone else's, regardless of how far off they are in reality, it's still missing the point (nor is it entirely true - it depends on how you measure accuracy. If I'm off by only 1,000 points, but it's b/c I've got Wali Lundy and Joey Goodspeed scoring 500 FPs next year, my accuracy regading everyone else won't matter all that much, for example).

The point is that projections are not predictions of what will happen in the future. They are a method for pricing risk. Every player is an investment with an expected return, and chance that the return will be different from the expected return. For some people, projections are the expected return, which they then tweak to adjust for risk. Some people build risk calculation directly into their projections. But to reduce projections to just a guess as to a guy's stats at the end of a season is to misunderstand every valuable thing about making projections.

 
MODESTY LEAGUE RANKINGS

Team 1 .................  10-3

Team 2 ...................  8-5

Team 3 ...................  7-6

Team 4 ...................  7-6

Team 5 ...................  7-6

Team LHUCKS .......  0-13

:P   :P
The analysis and moreso its conclusions are totally flawed...it annoyed me because it's totally misleading in terms of showing people how to become better at ff.
You are one of the only posters on here that consistently pimps yourself. I've won my league, most of which belong to this site, 5 out of 7 years now. I don't put it in my sig, and brag about how much I'll kick your ###. But of course, my league is full of fish you'll say....cuz you're the best.
:goodposting: It gets old, but just ignore it. Lhucks does put out some nice information, but he does love himself.

 
I don't disagree with the feedback I've gotten on this article. I didn't do an analysis of other projection sources and that keeps FBG's projections in a relative vacuum. Nor do I know of a better way to rank players. Ultimately, we have to project stats in order to come up with a value for each player and, ultimately through VBD, their ranking. I began by asking around for previous years projections in order to determine how close the FBG projections were to final stats, with the thoughts that it might lead me to gain a little better insight to WR value, as they seem to fluctuate more than other positions.

I received them, as well as requests to see what I came up with. I expanded to other positions. I wasn't anticipating the results that I got, at least the severity, and I submitted an article based upon what I had found. FBG was looking for different aspects in the articles than what I had focused on, and I understand their goals. I merely posted my article because other people had asked to see my results.

 
I think the major flaw in this article is the lack of alternatives (both in the analysis and in final direction). Proper analysis should include other projections and even other rankings (including ADP). If FBG projections are accurate at a 25% rate, that would seem very bad. However, if other projections and rankings were accurate to 15%, then the FBG projections are suddenly quite accurate in comparison.
I can't matchup the columns in the previous postFBG projections are only 25% accurate? or was that "for example" just throwing a # out there?

 
I don't disagree with the feedback I've gotten on this article. I didn't do an analysis of other projection sources and that keeps FBG's projections in a relative vacuum. Nor do I know of a better way to rank players. Ultimately, we have to project stats in order to come up with a value for each player and, ultimately through VBD, their ranking. I began by asking around for previous years projections in order to determine how close the FBG projections were to final stats, with the thoughts that it might lead me to gain a little better insight to WR value, as they seem to fluctuate more than other positions.

I received them, as well as requests to see what I came up with. I expanded to other positions. I wasn't anticipating the results that I got, at least the severity, and I submitted an article based upon what I had found. FBG was looking for different aspects in the articles than what I had focused on, and I understand their goals. I merely posted my article because other people had asked to see my results.
I am glad you posted it. It's good to get a conversation going, especially if it leads to examining things from a slightly different perspective. My comments were certainly not an attack or anything. I had no idea that projections were so far away from the actual results. I don't live or die by them when I draft, but it shows how little weight they deserve. The important thing is to rank the positions as correctly as possible. You certainly didn't waste your time by doing this study or posting the article.
 
I think the major flaw in this article is the lack of alternatives (both in the analysis and in final direction). Proper analysis should include other projections and even other rankings (including ADP). If FBG projections are accurate at a 25% rate, that would seem very bad. However, if other projections and rankings were accurate to 15%, then the FBG projections are suddenly quite accurate in comparison.

The final advice of drafting who you want and having fun seems a bit off as well. Having fun is cool, but there must be some form of ranking or projections in order to determine who you want. The article doesn't address how to obtain that ranking or projection.
The great thing about FBG is the diversity and overall quality of product. I don't subscribe for the projections. I would subscribe for nothing more than the Draft Dominator and the e-mail updates. But throw in several thousand articles and a LOT of expert opinions and you have a no-brainer subscription service.However, I think you should be doing this kind of projections accuracy analysis yourself. Most people don't want to or don't have the time to do their own projections, and they will rely on someone else's. Doing a self-analysis would either let you promote yourself that much more because your projections rock, or it would define a weakness in your projections that you can then tighten up. There is at least one other site that does track and report on its accuracy, and this greatly raises my image of them. It makes others that do not, look as though they are afraid to do so.

 

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