The Official "Horrible Coaching" thread...lots to discuss (1 Viewer)

[Liquid Tension]

How about the Colts calling timeout on the Jags last drive, which allowed them to have time to get in FG range for the winning score? Awful.

Couldn't believe my ears when I heard the announcer say that it was Indy who called timeout. I thought he misspoke.

Caldwell blew the game calling TO with 36 seconds left. Had Caldwell not called that TO the Jags would have probably let the clock run out and let it go to OT.

Jags were going to OT, they were not calling a timeout. I couldn't believe the Colts stopped the clock, especially after Drew ripped off a seven yard run on them on first down, it was almost like the were behind and were trying to win in regulation. Why not go to OT, there would've been plenty of chances to win the game there.

This was the key because if the run was a 1 yard run then I could see a TO.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Yet Chilly's 2-point decision with that much time on the clock compounded by having to call a timeout (something any decent Madden player would NEVER do) changed the entire complexion of that game.

The 2-point decision was the correct one. Here are the scenarios with the score 15-13 (plus 0, 1 or 2 points):1) NYJ doesn't score again. Either you've tied it with the 2-point conversion, or any score wins it for you.

2) NYJ scores a FG. Either you're down by 3 with the 2-point conversion, or any TD wins it for you.

Now the scenario which actually occurred, which the announcer got wrong:

3) NYJ scores a TD (which occurred). Either you're down by 7 with the 2-point conversion, or you're down by 9 because you missed it. You could have been down by 8 with the XP, which may look like a one-score game, but it still requires a two-point conversion. The scenario is exactly the same whether you go for two when you have 13 points or 20 points; you need a TD, an XP, and a 2-point conversion to tie.

So in the first two scenarios, it's clearly better to have tried for two, and in the third, you're in the same situation either way.

But the timeout was inexcusable.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Andy Reid, for calling a timeout (30 seconds) on a short 4th-and-goal and then not getting his QB back on the field in time to run the next play before the play clock ran out. They settled for a FG when they likely would have had a TD.

Given the Eagles' issues in short yardage, there is no guarantee that they would have had a TD.

 

[Football Critic]

A whole page thru and no Norv yet?

How bout Turners' misuse of Mathews so far, keep feeding a fat guy for 11 yards on 12 carries and a fumble at the goal line...and keep the young stud you moved up to grab in the first round on your bench. Hey you always have next year.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

I'm going to steal from Bill Simmons here and seriously suggest/ponder why teams don't spend a few dozen k and hire some statstical geek (aka Madden guru) for making general game decisions - specifically 2-minute clock management, when to punt, when to go for 2, etc. It seems so odd that in the NFL there are some really good coaches who just seemed to be strapped by basic statistical analysis and continue to make -EV decisions. For example, look at tonight's game - featured two coaches who are great with personnel, dealing with the media, and putting together decent gameplans. Yet Chilly's 2-point decision with that much time on the clock compounded by having to call a timeout (something any decent Madden player would NEVER do) changed the entire complexion of that game. NY's clock management at the end, too, was bad (while I agree with the playcalls themselves, how do you not really to your players when to call hike). Other guys who also come to meet this description are Andy Reid, Norv Turner, Wade Phillips, etc. All overall good coaches yet I'd be willing to bet a statistical analysis of their game decisions have hurt their respective teams in the aggregate - mind-boggling when you think about it compared to other sports. IMO it seems this ineptness is only present in football - and I'm not sure why. Baseball, hockey and basketball coaches seem to have a very strong general grasp on the statistical implications of their coaching decisions i.e. looking at past lefty-righty matchups, inserting particular shooters/defenders in certain situations, using timeouts, etc. For a recent example look at the now late great Bobby Cox's pinch-hitter maneuvering in game 3 to get Hinkse in the game with the pitching matchup he wanted. Simple yet seemingly so far beyond the apparent scope of the football coach's mind. I've heard arguments refuting this critique of coaches in the past (particularly when that statistician's analysis came out with the conclusion that coaches need to go for it more on 4th) stating that often times the eb and flow of the game dictate a "feel" type decision and the speed of the game and variety of things going on make it difficult. To the former, that sounds to me like the losing poker player's defense of his -EV decision saying he had a "read" or a "feel" where in the long-run it is still the wrong decision regardless of its individual outcome. To the latter, I'm not buying it. There are multiple coaches doing multiple things. You also have 40 seconds in between plays and three timeouts - likely the most time in between action in any of the major sports. Yeah there is pressure and yes the decisions are tough and can be "close-calls," but it's no excuse for consistent irrational decisions. When I first read Simmons' suggestion I laughed because I found it to be hyperbole with a minor point. Now I think it is dead on something teams should do. After all, look at the success of GM's in the other sports (particularly Oakland Athletics and Houston Rockets) when they put some cash and time towards permitting extended statistical analysis to influence their game decisions.

Another one that boggles the mind is: Why do most coaches/QBs take a timeout when faced with a delay of game penalty on first or second down? The timeout is way more valuable than five yards unless it's third down or the team is on the cusp of field goal range. Especially in the second half.

 

[nysportsfan]

Ryan came out yesterday and admitted they were guilty of awful clock management. No excuse, the ball should not have gone back to the Vikes with that much time. Period.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Yet Chilly's 2-point decision with that much time on the clock compounded by having to call a timeout (something any decent Madden player would NEVER do) changed the entire complexion of that game.

The 2-point decision was the correct one. Here are the scenarios with the score 15-13 (plus 0, 1 or 2 points):1) NYJ doesn't score again. Either you've tied it with the 2-point conversion, or any score wins it for you.

2) NYJ scores a FG. Either you're down by 3 with the 2-point conversion, or any TD wins it for you.

Now the scenario which actually occurred, which the announcer got wrong:

3) NYJ scores a TD (which occurred). Either you're down by 7 with the 2-point conversion, or you're down by 9 because you missed it. You could have been down by 8 with the XP, which may look like a one-score game, but it still requires a two-point conversion. The scenario is exactly the same whether you go for two when you have 13 points or 20 points; you need a TD, an XP, and a 2-point conversion to tie.

So in the first two scenarios, it's clearly better to have tried for two, and in the third, you're in the same situation either way.

But the timeout was inexcusable.

You make some very good points, but what you're missing is the implied changes of going for one and how if scenario 3 occurs it still keeps it a one-score game and the ways that changes each teams' approach. Also, with that much time left you need to consider what happens if either team score multiple times.

It's not a one-score game if you're down by 8 and you're going to miss the 2 point conversion. There's no reason to think that the 2-pt conversion attempt with 14 minutes to go was less likely to be successful than the one with 4 minutes to go. It's better to go for the 2 early, because in that case at least you know you're not going to make the two point conversion and can play the rest of the quarter trying to catch up. If you miss the 2 pt conversion with 20 seconds left, the game's over.