The Psychology Behind Trading (11 Viewers)

[JohnnyU]

In this thread let’s be honest about what we do most of the time. Everyone every now and then makes what others perceive as bad offers, or throws a bunch of trades out there, even if we do some analysis of the other team to come up with a good deal. But what I’m after is digging deeper on the psychology of trading. Here are some bullet points I would like to discuss.

• I’m amazed at how many are scared to make offers, even if it is them wanting to trade, or just refuse to make good first offers.
• Do you send out offers after posting your players on the block? Or are you just waiting for offers from others?
• Do you have private discussions for what value you're expecting for your players on the block?
• Would you say that you make 90+% of the first trade offers in trades you do make? For some reason I very seldom make a trade where someone makes me an offer first and I make a lot of trades. Sometimes I may get a counter that I accept, but the first offer almost always comes from me. That tells me that people may want to trade, but don't like to make the first offer.
• Are you one of these people who approach every trade as a must haggle mentality? Or do you ever make your first offer your best offer? I find myself doing the latter more and more, and believe it or not, make more trades by making a great first offer.
• Are you greedy?
• Do you fear making a bad trade?
• Do you make a conscious effort to evaluate a roster to see possible needs before sending an offer?
• Are you a low baller on purpose? If yes, why would you believe this is a good thing? I know we sometimes do this by accident if our views on player value differ greatly from others.

Some people complain about never making trades in their league and some of it can be fixed IMO by taking a look at some of these things. Of course some are never happy and expect every dynasty league to have trades all the time, which may be an unrealistic expectation.

 

[cdclopper]

I hate haggling so much. While acknowledging this limits a lot of opportunities because a lot of ppl get a thrill out of it and simply cannot accept an offer without countering. Can somebody explain this psycology to me?

 

[darksideofoz]

I tend to find a couple of teams that I think would be good partners before I post my trade bait. send the offers out and then hope other teams that I didn't identify as a good fit make me an offer that surprises me.

I am fine with people not sending trade offers and instead reaching out to discuss some options before formally making an offer. I do this often too when I'm a little iffy on the value of one or more pieces and don't want to offend or fleece myself hehe

it depends on who I'm trying to trade with and how badly I want a deal to get done. I would say I'm about 60/40 on my first offer being an opening offer/best offer. Sometimes my best offer gets countered with a surprising combination and makes me reassess what my actual best offer could be.

I don't really have an overall feel for if I make 1st offers more than others. I guess it mostly depends on the league/players. Some leagues yeah I probably have a lot more 1st offers than others, but some other leagues it is probably closer to 50/50.

sometimes I am greedy. especially if the other owner comes at me over zealous after I try to tell them I'm not interested in trading player X.

I don't fear making a bad trade. in the oldest league I run, every year at the end of the season I evaluate all of the trade offers I sent out that got declined and then send thank you notes to them for declining them since they would have easily gotten the better end of the deal hehe

only time I really low ball is a counter to a low ball offer coming to me.

 

[waiver wire]

I am not big on haggling, usually my 1st offer is close to my upper limit , there will be some wiggle room
Also i look at the owners roster to see what their needs are, i dont know why owners look first before they make an offer
I will give an owner 1 or 2 chances when they send ridiculously rip off bad offers, after that i will make comments and almost never trade with them

 

[mjb03003]

I have a few leagues where I don’t have to initiate every trade, but generally the offers that come in unsolicited are pretty terrible and tough to even counter.

The majority of my leagues I initiate nearly every trade.

I don’t enjoy prolonged haggling and negotiating so I definitely tend to start with (pretty close to) my strongest offer. Usually I will leave myself a little wiggle room to up the offer if I really want to get it done (i.e. offering a future 3rd initially when I’m willing to go up to a future 2nd).

I definitely review my trade partner’s roster and think about where they are on the contending/rebuilding spectrum, where they have depth or weaknesses, etc…

If I put someone on the block I often send a couple offers, but by putting someone on the trade block I am hoping to draw interest in the form of an offer. Usually all I get is “I like Player X, what do you want for him” at which point it’s now on me to make the first offer as usual.

I never lowball (at least not intentionally) as I think it makes people less likely to counter/engage.

 

[JohnnyU]

I am not big on haggling, usually my 1st offer is close to my upper limit , there will be some wiggle room
Also i look at the owners roster to see what their needs are, i dont know why owners look first before they make an offer
I will give an owner 1 or 2 chances when they send ridiculously rip off bad offers, after that i will make comments and almost never trade with them

Let’s look at this.

Your first one you said you usually make a great 1st offer, but leave wiggle room. I sometimes do that, but also sometimes that first offer is my best offer. I’ve made trades where my offer is rejected and countered, but then respond that my offer was my best offer and tell them if they are interested they can send the same trade back to me.

The second one. It’s always better to have sone idea of potential needs before sending before sending an offer. It can sometimes generate discussion that goes in a direction you don’t expect.

Your third response. I never completely shut off trade talks. I may not send them offers as often if they are too difficult to deal with. Meaning, I feel like they aren’t interested in trading unless they rape you. It’s easy to reject offers and delete emails.

 

[darksideofoz]

years ago, in the league I've been in the longest, this real character in the league got me to the point that I wouldn't even acknowledge him when he would send offers.

he would spam offers. make offer, immediately revoke it. make slightly different offer. immediately revoke it. When I talked to him about it he said that was his way of telling me he was interested in trading. I asked him to stop doing this as I was getting tired of all the emails and instead to get ahold of me and talk it out first before sending a real offer. He refused and kept doing his method.

He also would make really bad rapey offers. and wouldn't negotiate.

one thing that really bugs me is people using the trade comments to tell me obvious stuff. like their stats. or their role in the offense. he did this the worst of anyone I've ever played with. I told him he needs to stop telling me all the basic stats for a player as I already know them or can get them within 2 clicks. He actually took that request as motivation to do it more and even worse.

so, after several years of this I told him that not only would I not trade with him, I would never even look at any offers he sent me.

 

[JohnnyU]

years ago, in the league I've been in the longest, this real character in the league got me to the point that I wouldn't even acknowledge him when he would send offers.

he would spam offers. make offer, immediately revoke it. make slightly different offer. immediately revoke it. When I talked to him about it he said that was his way of telling me he was interested in trading. I asked him to stop doing this as I was getting tired of all the emails and instead to get ahold of me and talk it out first before sending a real offer. He refused and kept doing his method.

He also would make really bad rapey offers. and wouldn't negotiate.

one thing that really bugs me is people using the trade comments to tell me obvious stuff. like their stats. or their role in the offense. he did this the worst of anyone I've ever played with. I told him he needs to stop telling me all the basic stats for a player as I already know them or can get them within 2 clicks. He actually took that request as motivation to do it more and even worse.

so, after several years of this I told him that not only would I not trade with him, I would never even look at any offers he sent me.

You can block email addresses if it gets that bad.

 

[menobrown]

Do you make a conscious effort to evaluate a roster to see possible needs before sending an offer?

Yes, it's rare that I won't send out an offer without first looking at the other roster to see it makes sense.

This is not foolproof and sometimes what I think a team needs or wants surprises me and has cost me potential trades. Got to try and understand how they want to build a team more then how you think they should which can sometimes be gleamed by looking at their draft and trade history.

Do you send out offers after posting your players on the block?

I rarely post players on the block unless it's time sensitive (cuts are coming and I got to get rid of players), or low end deals like "if anyone wants this guy for a mid or any pick". When I got a player of real value I want to move I prefer to try and make some offers and not put them on the block.

This could be because I find it annoying when people put a player on the block and when you reach out they want way more then his value. Like of course he's on the block if that's what you want.

Are you one of these people who approach every trade as a must haggle mentality?

Not close. Most of my trades are offers I make with no counter or offers I accept with no counter.

Do you fear making a bad trade?

Sure, but no more then I fear not making a potential great trade that can help me.

Are you a low baller on purpose?

Feel bad if I ever make an offer that would make the other person feel that way so I hope not. This is why I try and look over rosters to see what I think might make sense for the other team before making offers.

 

[menobrown]

one thing that really bugs me is people using the trade comments to tell me obvious stuff.

The trade salesman is a major turnoff and deal killer.

There can be a little bit of a fine line between someone explaining their offer(which is perfectly good) vs someone trying to sell you on why the trade makes sense for you(which I find insulting). These lines can get a little blurry but for the most part you know the difference when you see it and the team constantly trying to sell you and offer is usually winning the trade.

 

[JohnnyU]

Do you make a conscious effort to evaluate a roster to see possible needs before sending an offer?

Yes, it's rare that I won't send out an offer without first looking at the other roster to see it makes sense.

This is not foolproof and sometimes what I think a team needs or wants surprises me and has cost me potential trades. Got to try and understand how they want to build a team more then how you think they should which can sometimes be gleamed by looking at their draft and trade history.

Do you send out offers after posting your players on the block?

I rarely post players on the block unless it's time sensitive (cuts are coming and I got to get rid of players), or low end deals like "if anyone wants this guy for a mid or any pick". When I got a player of real value I want to move I prefer to try and make some offers and not put them on the block.

This could be because I find it annoying when people put a player on the block and when you reach out they want way more then his value. Like of course he's on the block if that's what you want.

Are you one of these people who approach every trade as a must haggle mentality?

Not close. Most of my trades are offers I make with no counter or offers I accept with no counter.

Do you fear making a bad trade?

Sure, but no more then I fear not making a potential great trade that can help me.

Are you a low baller on purpose?

Feel bad if I ever make an offer that would make the other person feel that way so I hope not. This is why I try and look over rosters to see what I think might make sense for the other team before making offers.

This is a great response. What you’ll you say you could do better with trading?

 

[Payne]

First of all, I don't ever make a trade offer I feel is even remotely one-sided. My integrity is worth more.

Second, I never post "trade bait". That seems to lead to bad offers coming in.

I find a team or two that has a need and a player I want. Obviously, you want to have strength and depth at their position of need.
Sometimes I will send the offer(s) when I am comfortable with having the trade go through.
If I am on the fence, I tend to reach out to the owner(s) with my proposed trade offer and to see how they respond.

If I am dealing with more than one offer, I will ask the other owners to request the trade IF they are interested.
This way, if more than one owner sends a request, I have the freedom to choose which offer I prefer.

 

[pinkstapler]

Won't reiterate what's already been said; so I'll just add that over the years I've tried to move away from explaining/over explaining my rationale when attempting trades. It can come off as preachy, disingenuous, and sometimes shady. 100% agree with those who said about looking over rosters and trying to form trades which make sense for both parties. But I used to present and try to explain why till I realized there's no real point. Either they like the trade or they won't, and a decent owner will be able to glean the info I'm trying to explain from the trade itself. If someone doesn't already realize they are weak at a certain position, they certainly don't want to hear it from someone else. Tends to make them defensive right off the bat. Same goes with talking up a player you're trading away/negging a player you're asking for. You could be making very valid points that you honestly believe, but it still tends to be perceived negatively.

Edit: well it wasn't said when I started writing my comment, but got covered before I hit post haha.

 

[JohnnyU]

A good way to approach this would be, what should I do better? Some probably feel they are doing everything right, but may need to rethink that?

 

[Payne]

one thing that really bugs me is people using the trade comments to tell me obvious stuff.

The trade salesman is a major turnoff and deal killer.

There can be a little bit of a fine line between someone explaining their offer(which is perfectly good) vs someone trying to sell you on why the trade makes sense for you(which I find insulting). These lines can get a little blurry but for the most part you know the difference when you see it and the team constantly trying to sell you and offer is usually winning the trade.

There is a fine line for sure. I don't use stats, etc., but I will state why I am offering the trade.
Something like "I am looking to upgrade my WR and thought maybe you would be interested in player X"

 

[Jppaul]

I hate haggling so much. While acknowledging this limits a lot of opportunities because a lot of ppl get a thrill out of it and simply cannot accept an offer without countering. Can somebody explain this psycology to me?

maybe because the other owner is insecure in their knowledge and ability to make trades, so they assume that you sent an offer that isn't a fair trade?

 

[JohnnyU]

I hate haggling so much. While acknowledging this limits a lot of opportunities because a lot of ppl get a thrill out of it and simply cannot accept an offer without countering. Can somebody explain this psycology to me?

maybe because the other owner is insecure in their knowledge and ability to make trades, so they assume that you sent an offer that isn't a fair trade?

This is a very interesting response and may be more true than people think. I know there won’t be anyone that will admit it however.

 

[pinkstapler]

I hate haggling so much. While acknowledging this limits a lot of opportunities because a lot of ppl get a thrill out of it and simply cannot accept an offer without countering. Can somebody explain this psycology to me?

maybe because the other owner is insecure in their knowledge and ability to make trades, so they assume that you sent an offer that isn't a fair trade?

This is a very interesting response and my be more true than people think.

Agree. I think also what happens is a lot of people project themselves onto others. So if a person themselves is a haggler or someone who never sends their best offer first, they tend to think everyone else is doing the same.

I've also had a thing in leagues where I've "won" a few trades in a row, and then some people are wary of trading with me thinking I'm taking advantage or know something they don't. Even when an offer is even/tilted in their favor.

 

[Jppaul]

do any of y'all accept sub-par trades to create goodwill? I've done that and over the years, I've created trade partners that will do the same for me.

 

[pinkstapler]

do any of y'all accept sub-par trades to create goodwill? I've done that and over the years, I've created trade partners that will do the same for me.

To an extent. I've definitely accepted trades that would be considered slightly lopsided not in my favor to get a player I am higher on than consensus. And sometimes if a trade isn't a blockbuster, but instead just involves flex players/bench stashes/mid to late round picks I'll work with owners who are highly motivated to make the move even if I feel like it doesn't do much for me. This would be kind of the good will thing you were talking about. I don't think I've ever eaten a huge L doing this, but definitely those trades where I wasn't seeking it out and don't care much if it goes through or not.

 

[darksideofoz]

do any of y'all accept sub-par trades to create goodwill? I've done that and over the years, I've created trade partners that will do the same for me.

I don't know that I would say accepting sub-par trades, but definitely will allow the other owner to "win" the trade sometimes to create said good will.

 

[TheWinz]

I am strictly a redraft guy. Played many years in leagues with little/no trading. Started a league with an active owner and made sure those we invited are the trading type. We are in year 4, have only 1 new owner, and trades are happening all the time. It's the best league I've ever been in. How much trading you ask? I didn't have a single player from start to finish last year, and neither did the co-commish. All 10 other teams traded between 1 and 10 times.

Perhaps it's different in dynasty, but I hate when an owner puts a guy on the trading block. All players are always on the trading block. It reminds me of when my wife comes home with a new shirt or something and says it was ON SALE. Sorry honey, it wasn't on sale, it was FOR SALE. Everything in the the store is always on sale. Instead of placing a player on the trading block, how about you initiate an offer?

Now that I think more about it, I hate the trading block mostly because of 1 guy in our league. He will constantly say stuff like, player X is going to the highest bidder, then won't trade the guy. All he really cares about is how others view his players.

 

[efactor]

do any of y'all accept sub-par trades to create goodwill? I've done that and over the years, I've created trade partners that will do the same for me.

Yeah. I have definitely accepted some trades I could have squeezed a little bit more out of, but not a bad thing to create some goodwill, especially when it's someone I really want.

 

[JohnnyU]

I hate haggling so much. While acknowledging this limits a lot of opportunities because a lot of ppl get a thrill out of it and simply cannot accept an offer without countering. Can somebody explain this psycology to me?

maybe because the other owner is insecure in their knowledge and ability to make trades, so they assume that you sent an offer that isn't a fair trade?

This is a very interesting response and my be more true than people think.

Agree. I think also what happens is a lot of people project themselves onto others. So if a person themselves is a haggler or someone who never sends their best offer first, they tend to think everyone else is doing the same.

I've also had a thing in leagues where I've "won" a few trades in a row, and then some people are wary of trading with me thinking I'm taking advantage or know something they don't. Even when an offer is even/tilted in their favor.

I would point the bolded as a problem with the person you're tradiing with, and until they remedy that, they will make fewer trades than they could have. In other words, that isn't my problem, but theirs. I think those who are confident in what they know don't fall into this category. Those that do fall into this category need to figure out how to be more confident in what they know about fantasy football.

 

[Jppaul]

I am strictly a redraft guy. Played many years in leagues with little/no trading. Started a league with an active owner and made sure those we invited are the trading type. We are in year 4, have only 1 new owner, and trades are happening all the time. It's the best league I've ever been in. How much trading you ask? I didn't have a single player from start to finish last year, and neither did the co-commish. All 10 other teams traded between 1 and 10 times.

Perhaps it's different in dynasty, but I hate when an owner puts a guy on the trading block. All players are always on the trading block. It reminds me of when my wife comes home with a new shirt or something and says it was ON SALE. Sorry honey, it wasn't on sale, it was FOR SALE. Everything in the the store is always on sale. Instead of placing a player on the trading block, how about you initiate an offer?

Now that I think more about it, I hate the trading block mostly because of 1 guy in our league. He will constantly say stuff like, player X is going to the highest bidder, then won't trade the guy. All he really cares about is how others view his players.

1. if you like trading, join dynasty. It's better because when you're out of the playoff hunt, you can still improve you team. Like trade an older quality player for draft picks.

2. trade block is an important tool.

 

[Jppaul]

I've also had a thing in leagues where I've "won" a few trades in a row, and then some people are wary of trading with me thinking I'm taking advantage or know something they don't. Even when an offer is even/tilted in their favor.

yup, been there. A few years ago, several league members called me out on it. They stopped when I pointed out that i was usually the recipient of those lopsided trade offers and I didn't counter. I was just sent good for me offers.

I then pointed out that i get a lot of offers because everyone knows that I like to trade and will respond quickly, so... people send me offers.

 

[efactor]

I am strictly a redraft guy. Played many years in leagues with little/no trading. Started a league with an active owner and made sure those we invited are the trading type. We are in year 4, have only 1 new owner, and trades are happening all the time. It's the best league I've ever been in. How much trading you ask? I didn't have a single player from start to finish last year, and neither did the co-commish. All 10 other teams traded between 1 and 10 times.

Perhaps it's different in dynasty, but I hate when an owner puts a guy on the trading block. All players are always on the trading block. It reminds me of when my wife comes home with a new shirt or something and says it was ON SALE. Sorry honey, it wasn't on sale, it was FOR SALE. Everything in the the store is always on sale. Instead of placing a player on the trading block, how about you initiate an offer?

Now that I think more about it, I hate the trading block mostly because of 1 guy in our league. He will constantly say stuff like, player X is going to the highest bidder, then won't trade the guy. All he really cares about is how others view his players.

2. trade block is an important tool.

Agree

 

[eighsse2]

In this thread let’s be honest about what we do most of the time. I’m amazed at how many are scared to make offers, even if it is them wanting to trade, or just refuse to make good first offers.

• Do you send out offers after posting your players on the block? Or are you just waiting for offers from others?

I don't do a lot of trade block, only occasionally, people aren't active enough to read the block and pursue anything.

• Do you have private discussions for what value you're expecting for your players on the block?

Same answer, but I do have private discussions.
My new M.O. is to not even put an offer in the system, but text the other owner an offer or a "nebulous" offer or a mere inquiry about what he thinks of a given player.

• Would you say that you make 90+% of the first trade offers in trades you do make? For some reason I very seldom make a trade where someone makes me an offer first and I make a lot of trades. Sometimes I may get a counter that I accept, but the first offer almost always comes from me. That tells me that people may want to trade, but don't like to make the first offer.

Maybe not 90%, but, maybe. It's high.

• Are you one of these people who approach every trade as a must haggle mentality? Or do you ever make your first offer your best offer? I find myself doing the latter more and more, and believe it or not, make more trades by making a great first offer.

I as well find myself making my first offer my best offer more frequently as time goes on. And, well, maybe I should rephrase that, maybe not best offer. I do normally still have a bit in the tank to throw at them if they're on the fence. But I used to be less confident and therefore more apprehensive about offering anything.

• Are you greedy?

Yes, in some sense. I want to win every trade, and if I for some reason knew I could get more than my best willing offer, I'd get more. But I'm okay with a trade that helps me that actually weighs in my trading partner's favor.

• Do you fear making a bad trade?

Still yes, of course. But less so these days.

• Do you make a conscious effort to evaluate a roster to see possible needs before sending an offer?

Generally, yes.

• Are you a low baller on purpose? If yes, why would you believe this is a good thing? I know we sometimes do this by accident if our views on player value differ greatly from others.

No? I think not anyway. I've definitely done it before. I see two points in favor of the philosophy: (1) Do you know, know, KNOW, for a fact, that they won't accept it? Why not take a shot if it's at least like 0.5% possible? And (2) The psychological aspect if they aren't savvy could possibly help you. In very rough terms, you make a +50% offer in your favor. They counter with a -25% offer. If you meet in the middle, you end up with a + deal. Kind of like the infomercial tactic, where the first mention is that you get Product X for 5 payments of $99.99. Then throughout the program, in many gradual steps of sweetening the deal, it becomes Product X AND 8 refills AND this stupid side item, no wait, THREE of the stupid side item, for only THREE payments of $59.99!!! By that point some people could be of the mindset that they cannot afford not to buy the thing.

However these days I'm feeling more honest, maybe because I've changed, or maybe because my team was garbage and is now great.

One very good reason to make more fair deals is getting return customers. You make two trades with an owner over two years and it ends up that you totally effed him over because he doesn't know the value of things, well that's great, but he's probably not happy about that and not looking to you for future trades.
You make a few deals with someone that have a realistic shot to help either or both teams, then you may have a happy customer who will return.


Another thing, if I'm looking to sell a particular guy for a draft pick. Sometimes I will start at the highest draft pick that could half-reasonably be considered, make that offer, and then when it rejected, send the offer to the guy with the next pick after that, and repeat as far down the list as I'm willing to offer.

 

[JohnnyU]

I am strictly a redraft guy. Played many years in leagues with little/no trading. Started a league with an active owner and made sure those we invited are the trading type. We are in year 4, have only 1 new owner, and trades are happening all the time. It's the best league I've ever been in. How much trading you ask? I didn't have a single player from start to finish last year, and neither did the co-commish. All 10 other teams traded between 1 and 10 times.

Perhaps it's different in dynasty, but I hate when an owner puts a guy on the trading block. All players are always on the trading block. It reminds me of when my wife comes home with a new shirt or something and says it was ON SALE. Sorry honey, it wasn't on sale, it was FOR SALE. Everything in the the store is always on sale. Instead of placing a player on the trading block, how about you initiate an offer?

Now that I think more about it, I hate the trading block mostly because of 1 guy in our league. He will constantly say stuff like, player X is going to the highest bidder, then won't trade the guy. All he really cares about is how others view his players.

1. if you like trading, join dynasty. It's better because when you're out of the playoff hunt, you can still improve you team. Like trade an older quality player for draft picks.

2. trade block is an important tool.

While I'm fne with the trade block, it does have flaws. A first mistake is listiing practically everyone on your roster beiing on the block. It's probably best to start with one or two players and after they are traded move on to some more. Or remove them if no one is interested and list one or two different players. Another problem with trade block is that owners are looking for others to make offers to them, thus not having to make that first offer. I think a combination of a trade block and sending out offers after evaluating other teams is the way to go.

 

[msudaisy26]

Trading in fantasy has gotten worse IMO over the last few years and here is why I think it has.

People are scarred to lose a trade, so they want the trade to be so lopsided in their favor that there is no way they can lose.

Most people don't look at your team. You put AJ Brown on the market because you want to start a rebuild and your potential trade partner doesn't have or won't trade any young players or picks.

Most people value their players higher than the actual value and your players less than market.

Lastly is the fear of missing out. Why do you want to trade for Darnell Mooney? Is London hurt, is Pitts being traded, did the Falcons just trade for Mahomes? No maybe I just need a guy to put in my flex. Last year I offered an extra second round pick I had acquired for one of his wrs because I needed a flex play. Diontae, Downs, Cooper, Mooney and I got rejected on all because he wasn't sure what I was up too. Now two of those guys are worthless, one would have been a fair trade and one wouldnhave worked out for me.

 

[efactor]

Instead of placing a player on the trading block, how about you initiate an offer?

Optimally, teams do both but the trade block is a great way to stir up additional interest. A lot of times, I look through rosters for a beneficial trade for both teams and can't really find anything, but that doesn't mean there is no deal. Another team may not be offering a deal because they don't think you would be willing to let certain players go.

I love to trade which is why I am heavily adding to my dynasty leagues this year. Always tweaking my teams. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't but it's fun either way. Playing in a dynasty league with little action isn't my bag. I know some take a different view and that's fine.

 

[pinkstapler]

I hate haggling so much. While acknowledging this limits a lot of opportunities because a lot of ppl get a thrill out of it and simply cannot accept an offer without countering. Can somebody explain this psycology to me?

maybe because the other owner is insecure in their knowledge and ability to make trades, so they assume that you sent an offer that isn't a fair trade?

This is a very interesting response and my be more true than people think.

Agree. I think also what happens is a lot of people project themselves onto others. So if a person themselves is a haggler or someone who never sends their best offer first, they tend to think everyone else is doing the same.

I've also had a thing in leagues where I've "won" a few trades in a row, and then some people are wary of trading with me thinking I'm taking advantage or know something they don't. Even when an offer is even/tilted in their favor.

I would point the bolded as a problem with the person you're tradiing with, and until they remedy that, they will make fewer trades than they could have. In other words, that isn't my problem, but theirs. I think those who are confident in what they know don't fall into this category. Those that do fall into this category need to figure out how to be more confident in what they know about fantasy football.

Yeah I feel that. But it kinda turned into my problem when there were like three of them telling me this and it was really limiting what moves I could make. Especially once I started watching them move some of the players I was targeting for less compensation than I was offering them. Slight tin foil hat coming in; but it felt to me like it was a narrative being pushed to them by another league member who was trying to corner the trade market of the league. Of course I suspected it was the one guy known for being a terrible person to trade with and exhibited just about every negative trader behavior you marked out in your first post lol. He was the stereotypical owner who every time a trade would post in chat he would comment either "OMG what a terrible trade. You could have gotten so much more. You were swindled. Shame we don't vote on these anymore." Etc. Etc. Wound up just leaving that league, and I still get texts from people complaining about that one guy. I just got sick of being the only one who called him on his ish. Really sucked the fun out of everything.

 

[pinkstapler]

I've also had a thing in leagues where I've "won" a few trades in a row, and then some people are wary of trading with me thinking I'm taking advantage or know something they don't. Even when an offer is even/tilted in their favor.

yup, been there. A few years ago, several league members called me out on it. They stopped when I pointed out that i was usually the recipient of those lopsided trade offers and I didn't counter. I was just sent good for me offers.

I then pointed out that i get a lot of offers because everyone knows that I like to trade and will respond quickly, so... people send me offers.

This is a huge part of it. Also same for me. I would also point out several trades I made that were really a loss for me over time which would be conveniently ignored lol. Like when I traded for AB the week before he caught an injury going into fantasy playoffs. The following season was when he froze his feet and went on to lose what few marbles he had left. I don't think I ever even got to start him haha.

 

[JohnnyU]

Instead of placing a player on the trading block, how about you initiate an offer?

Optimally, teams do both but the trade block is a great way to stir up additional interest. A lot of times, I look through rosters for a beneficial trade for both teams and can't really find anything, but that doesn't mean there is no deal. Another team may not be offering a deal because they don't think you would be willing to let certain players go.

I love to trade which is why I am heavily adding to my dynasty leagues this year. Always tweaking my teams. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't but it's fun either way. Playing in a dynasty league with little action isn't my bag. I know some take a different view and that's fine.

This is a great attitude to have for dynasty. However, I've seen some dynasty players get addicted to trading to the point where trading is more important than winning. I've seen them make great trades for young talent and then turn around and trade them away for more picks instead of letting that talent develop. I've seen teams always churning their roster for future picks and then after drafting players they repeat the process for future drafts. They are in a constant state of rebuilding and don't seem to care about winning. Now that is a problem !!

 

[efactor]

Instead of placing a player on the trading block, how about you initiate an offer?

Optimally, teams do both but the trade block is a great way to stir up additional interest. A lot of times, I look through rosters for a beneficial trade for both teams and can't really find anything, but that doesn't mean there is no deal. Another team may not be offering a deal because they don't think you would be willing to let certain players go.

I love to trade which is why I am heavily adding to my dynasty leagues this year. Always tweaking my teams. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't but it's fun either way. Playing in a dynasty league with little action isn't my bag. I know some take a different view and that's fine.

This is a great attitude to have for dynasty. However, I've seen some dynasty players get addicted to trading to the point where trading is more important than winning. I've seen them make great trades for young talent and then turn around and trade them away for more picks instead of letting that talent develop. I've seen teams always churning their roster for future picks and then after drafting players they repeat the process for future drafts. They are in a constant state of rebuilding and don't seem to care about winning. Now that is a problem !!

Yeah, I see this too. One in particular stands out. Guy traded ARSB for a couple back end #1 picks and when I questioned why he did that, he responded "I need to rebuild". I pointed out that you rebuild with players like ARSB who are elite and young. Anyway, I get what you're saying.

 

[Jppaul]

Optimally, teams do both but the trade block is a great way to stir up additional interest

this

use all the tools at your disposal to maximize your teams success.

 

[Rockchild]

Instead of placing a player on the trading block, how about you initiate an offer?

Optimally, teams do both but the trade block is a great way to stir up additional interest. A lot of times, I look through rosters for a beneficial trade for both teams and can't really find anything, but that doesn't mean there is no deal. Another team may not be offering a deal because they don't think you would be willing to let certain players go.

I love to trade which is why I am heavily adding to my dynasty leagues this year. Always tweaking my teams. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't but it's fun either way. Playing in a dynasty league with little action isn't my bag. I know some take a different view and that's fine.

Yeah, I like to trade too and see some teams that don't trade which tweaked a thought in my head, can you win in dynasty without trading? I'm trying to look at my various leagues over the years and most teams that win or are always near the top do trade.

 

[JohnnyU]

Instead of placing a player on the trading block, how about you initiate an offer?

Optimally, teams do both but the trade block is a great way to stir up additional interest. A lot of times, I look through rosters for a beneficial trade for both teams and can't really find anything, but that doesn't mean there is no deal. Another team may not be offering a deal because they don't think you would be willing to let certain players go.

I love to trade which is why I am heavily adding to my dynasty leagues this year. Always tweaking my teams. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't but it's fun either way. Playing in a dynasty league with little action isn't my bag. I know some take a different view and that's fine.

This is a great attitude to have for dynasty. However, I've seen some dynasty players get addicted to trading to the point where trading is more important than winning. I've seen them make great trades for young talent and then turn around and trade them away for more picks instead of letting that talent develop. I've seen teams always churning their roster for future picks and then after drafting players they repeat the process for future drafts. They are in a constant state of rebuilding and don't seem to care about winning. Now that is a problem !!

Yeah, I see this too. One in particular stands out. Guy traded ARSB for a couple back end #1 picks and when I questioned why he did that, he responded "I need to rebuild". I pointed out that you rebuild with players like ARSB who are elite and young. Anyway, I get what you're saying.

Or worse than constant roster churning, at least for commissioners, are those that join dynasty leagues and play with a redraft mentality. They join and trade all their picks for aging players, then bail on the league when they’ve bled it for all it will produce. Then I have to find another owner, sometimes giving a discount or additional picks. Now those are the worst dynasty players.

 

[Gally]

I will give an owner 1 or 2 chances when they send ridiculously rip off bad offers, after that i will make comments and almost never trade with them

I have never understood this mentality. I have seen many comments like this where a bad offer and people cross off that owners as a trade offer forever. Why limit your options like that?

 

[TheWinz]

Or worse than constant roster churning, at least for commissioners, are those that join dynasty leagues and play with a redraft mentality. They join and trade all their picks for aging players, then bail on the league when they’ve bled it for all it will produce. Then I have to find another owner, sometimes giving a discount or additional picks. Now those are the worst dynasty players.

I'm not a dynasty guy. For those with the redraft mentality, it seems like one of the easy fixes for a commish would be to demand full payment up front for any season in which you are offering future picks. An owner should never be allowed to give up something that wasn't theirs. And it's not theirs if they bail.

 

[Gally]

Instead of placing a player on the trading block, how about you initiate an offer?

I don't mind making offers but it really helps if I know what players may interest the potential trade partner. So by using the Trade Block I can sometime get some insight as other owners will inquire about players. That tells me what players they have interest in which makes the initial offer much more likely to be in the ballpark.

 

[Gally]

The biggest obstacle I have found to completing trades is a lack of confidence in "your" (could be you or the other guy) evaluation abilities. Basically not being confident in pulling the trigger because they are afraid of making a bad trade. That hesitation or worry that you are getting screwed is a huge mental obstacle in making a deal.

I love trading with someone that knows what they want and has confidence. It is so easy to get a deal done or you are not on the same page and you know right away.

Bottom line not being afraid to lose a trade is invaluable and the most important thing you need to make trades.

 

[JohnnyU]

Or worse than constant roster churning, at least for commissioners, are those that join dynasty leagues and play with a redraft mentality. They join and trade all their picks for aging players, then bail on the league when they’ve bled it for all it will produce. Then I have to find another owner, sometimes giving a discount or additional picks. Now those are the worst dynasty players.

I'm not a dynasty guy. For those with the redraft mentality, it seems like one of the easy fixes for a commish would be to demand full payment up front for any season in which you are offering future picks. An owner should never be allowed to give up something that wasn't theirs. And it's not theirs if they bail.

That doesn’t help the teams that are ruined, even if they have future picks. I’ve had to offer a discount for teams with picks because inept dynasty players run it into the ground and give up. Maybe those players should only play redraft.

I’m getting away from this thread, so I’ll end that discussion.

 

[Gally]

There can be a little bit of a fine line between someone explaining their offer(which is perfectly good) vs someone trying to sell you on why the trade makes sense for you(which I find insulting). These lines can get a little blurry but for the most part you know the difference when you see it and the team constantly trying to sell you and offer is usually winning the trade.

I am interested in how you can tell the difference. Is it primarily the one-sided-ness of the offer? I find myself trying to explain why I thought this offer might interest the other owner. I am not trying to sell him on the trade but more trying to explain why I thought this might be of interest.

As other's have mentioned, I try and evaluate the other team to see where they may be weak or could improve. By doing that I come up with an offer and I tend to try and explain my reasoning for offering up these players.

This stems from a few trade partners that have vastly different evaluation conclusions as me. I would think this should make trading easy but it is the exact opposite. I have send offers that I would accept if I was in their shoes (so I don't believe it was a low ball or bad offer) and been told this offer is crap and those players are terrible. It confuses me because I really would have accepted if I had their team based on how I evaluate things. Then I find out what players they like and I would never even have thought to offer those guys as it seemed like a terrible offer.

 

[darksideofoz]

Or worse than constant roster churning, at least for commissioners, are those that join dynasty leagues and play with a redraft mentality. They join and trade all their picks for aging players, then bail on the league when they’ve bled it for all it will produce. Then I have to find another owner, sometimes giving a discount or additional picks. Now those are the worst dynasty players.

I'm not a dynasty guy. For those with the redraft mentality, it seems like one of the easy fixes for a commish would be to demand full payment up front for any season in which you are offering future picks. An owner should never be allowed to give up something that wasn't theirs. And it's not theirs if they bail.

the dynasty league I'm in and one of my keeper leagues I'm in both have a pay a year in advance policy. if someone quits, they have a chance to try to shop the team to someone and try to recoup some/all of their prepay, but if they don't and the league/commish has to fill the spot that 1st season is already paid for the new owner.

the other keeper league I'm in, which I run, isn't quite as hard on this. In the offseason if you make a trade you have to have your entry fee paid before I push the trade through. next time we reboot I will expand that to the previous season if they are trading future draft picks, or just make everyone pay a year in advance. still trying to decide which way I want to go.

 

[Gally]

I also hate the owner that doesn't know what he has and when you inquire about that guy he immediately wants multiple 1st rounders mainly because I am showing interest in the guy. He probably cuts the guy next week but now that I want him he is an all pro.

 

[TheWinz]

Instead of placing a player on the trading block, how about you initiate an offer?

I don't mind making offers but it really helps if I know what players may interest the potential trade partner. So by using the Trade Block I can sometime get some insight as other owners will inquire about players. That tells me what players they have interest in which makes the initial offer much more likely to be in the ballpark.

Fair. I guess I just have a bad taste in my mouth because owners just want to know what everyone else thinks of their players without having to actually offer a trade, or more annoyingly, not really wanting to trade in the first place. It's like that episode of That 70's Show where Mila Kunis keeps asking, "Am I pretty? Am I pretty?" But I have only ever played redraft, so it may be totally different in dynasty.

 

[TheWinz]

I also hate the owner that doesn't know what he has and when you inquire about that guy he immediately wants multiple 1st rounders mainly because I am showing interest in the guy. He probably cuts the guy next week but now that I want him he is an all pro.

Exactly!!!!!

 

[Gally]

I've also had a thing in leagues where I've "won" a few trades in a row, and then some people are wary of trading with me thinking I'm taking advantage or know something they don't. Even when an offer is even/tilted in their favor.

This is the worst. I sometimes root for a trade I make to not be good for me to balance these scales sometimes. I have an owner or two that won't trade with me because they think this even if I was just accepting offers they sent to me.

 

[Gally]

Most people value their players higher than the actual value and your players less than market.

I think this is a built in aspect and human nature. I mean you have the players on your team because you liked them enough to draft or acquire them. The other guy has players on his team that he likes for the same reason.

Because of this I think it is logical that you overvalue your players and vice versa. It's not really that either of you are truly overvaluing the guys it's just you liked them more than others in the first place otherwise you probably wouldn't have them on your team. It's a large mental obstacle to overcome sometimes.