I can't believe I'm going to waste time on this, AGAIN. Tim, I thought you weren't going to start threads anymore and, on a topic such as this that has been debate over and over, couldn't you have just done a search and bumped one of the preexisting threads?
Anyways.....
The PROBLEMS with Illegal Immigration
1) They ARE a net drain on the system. Anyone who says different is a "progressive" like Timmy here. Hospital emergency rooms are closing at an alarming rate in border states. AFAIK the unanimous reason is the cost of illegals to their bottom line since anyone who walks in to an emergency room has to be treated by law. Illegals use the emergency room as their family practitioner and emergency room care is much more expensive than a regular doctor visit. Additionally, there is the cost of educating their children, some US citizens and some not, the cost of incarceration which is significant, the cost of social programs they are entitled to especially if they have kids here, the cost of the extra infrastructure needed to support 10% more people in the country, etc.....FAIR, an organization Timmy mentioned earlier, just came out with their latest study which shows that in CA illegals cost the state 13 BILLION dollars a year. That's a LOT of money, and that's just CA.
2) There are a lot of illegals in prison. People such as Tim pretend that the only law these people break is walking across the border to "make a better life for them self" but they do commit other crimes. Yes, it's not all of them but it's not an insignificant percent either.
3) Latino gangs have become a huge problem due to illegal immigration. Do a search on MS-13, a latino gang that was actually started in the US but does heavy recruiting in Latin America and brings those members here. It's a huge problem in this country and one of the most violent gangs we have of any race.
4) We NEED to have a secure border. Not only do illegal immigrants cross it but terrorists cross it as well. Also, our border agents are continually shot at and put in harms way.
5) Illegals don't assimilate. They form their own communities, don't learn English, and instead of trying to become Americanized they turn their areas in to the same cess pools they came from. Not to mention cultural issues. California now has a huge problem with #### fighting, which is illegal almost everywhere in the US. But it's common in Latin America so in areas with high concentrations of illegals you have a big problem with it. This may sound trivial but #### fighting leads to a lot of other issues, just as prostitution does. Not to mention it's completely inhumane.
6) One of the big problems that isn't talked about much is 2nd/3rd generation illegals. Any kids born of illegals while in this country are automatically US citizens. This should be changed as that was never the intent of this provision but that's another issue. The problem is, in states such as CA these children grow up and are then part of our voting population. They vote in very liberal ways and this, IMO, is one of the reasons CA has gone over the Abyss. These people are now in power and come from a culture where corruption in politics is status quo. About 5 years ago the State/Feds actually arrested basically the entire city council in a Latino community in the Los Angeles area for corruption. This is what they came from in Mexico and other Latin American cultures and, just like we learn what our parents teach us, it flows down the line with the illegals. Many of the people in state power come from this background and they vote for more and more pro illegal measures every year.
7) Identity theft. Illegals are being tied to identity theft more and more. They make up or buy SSN numbers of American Citizens and use it to work here. This causes a myriad of problems for the CITIZEN who actually owns that SSN number. I read about a lady in Iowa who TRIED to go on workman's comp. for a legit injury only to find out she couldn't because she was already on workman's comp!!!! An illegal using her SSN number had been on workman's comp. and then a few months later she got a hefty tax bill from the Feds for the illegal as well.
8) This will sound disingenuous coming from an illegal immigrant opponent but it's true. Our use of illegal immigrant labor for low paying jobs is human exploitation. People think everything is cheaper with the illegals so they don't care if they're being paid under the table in 3rd world wages but it's not only illegal, it's wrong. Anyone who thinks it's ok believes in human exploitation. I don't.
The FALLACIES of fixing the problem
Timmy and other "progressive" open border people cite problems with getting rid of illegals - "We can't deport 20 million people!!!! It's not possible."
1) We don't have to deport them. Go after the employers like we're supposed to. The federal government has a great database that many employers use to verify SSN numbers. Federal agencies are required to use it and many private employers use it as well. It's been in pilot for years and the pilot went very well. Illegal immigration apologists like Timmy here push against the use of this database, saying it can cause delays in employment and mistakes can be made. While this is true the issues in the pilot have been minimal and the benefits certainly outweigh the downside. In addition, targeted raids as have been happening with more frequency the last couple of years make a huge impact. You don't have to go into every workplace. Word spreads fast. If the illegals even THINK you might come after them they get scared. The problem is we do it so infrequently there isn't much threat.
2) If you go after the employers to make it hard for illegals to find work, most will go home. This has been shown by how many have left just due to the economic downturn. Hundreds of thousands of illegals have left in the last year alone due to problems finding work.
3) If you secure the border and go after employers it becomes difficult for the illegal to come back once he's out of the country. So, you've stopped the incoming flow.
4) After you've stopped the incoming flow and most have gone home due to workplace enforcement, you have maybe 10-20% of the problem remaining. Those are the ones we end up deporting. But we can do that as we come across them via local arrest or other means. We don't have to go door to door looking for illegals.
But We NEED them to do jobs Americans won't do!!!!
Another fallacy.
1) I posted a link to a study last year that showed that the average American family will see a $5 YEARLY increase in the cost of fruits/veggies if illegals weren't picking them. People such as Timmy like to suggest that prices would skyrocket if illegals weren't here to pick our fruits. This simply isn't true. This study was by a completely unbiased researcher and was NOT refuted by ANY illegal alien apologists.
2) Being able to hire illegals cheap has delayed the implementation of mechanized devices for picking fruits. We can build a car with robotics but can't pick an apple from a tree? Not true. There's just no reason to deploy such means when illegals are cheap.
3) If we do want/need some immigrant labor we need to be in control of it. We need to secure our border and remove as many as possible. Then we can consider some type of guest worker program if still needed. What we can't have is illegals just walking across the border with us not knowing who is in our country and being in control of when they come and go.
There simply is no reason NOT to deal with this issue, including getting rid of those already here. Amnesty is not an option because is rewards coming here illegally while millions of people sit in other countries waiting to come here legally.
