Thomas Jones/Leon Washington To Share Time (1 Viewer)

[sheerterror]

This shouldn't come as much of a surprise given Mangini's style, but worth noting for those that may have rather high expectations for Jones. To be fair, it's coming from a beat writer, but Cimini is usually pretty plugged in.I still expect Jones to get the lion's share of carries (including at the stripe), but Leon showed last year that he's too good to keep off the field. He's just not big enough to carry the ball an inordinate number of times.----------------------------Jets | Jones and Washington to share timeWed, 14 Mar 2007 21:49:32 -0700Rich Cimini, of the New York Daily News, reporting for the Sporting News, reports New York Jets head coach Eric Mangini is unlikely to turn the backfield into a one-man show. The Jets, who stole RB Thomas Jones from the Chicago Bears ( ), plan to use Jones with second-year RB Leon Washington. Statistics show that Jones is more effective when he carries the ball about 15 times per game, not 20 to 25.

I would like to know how the Jets "STOLE" Thomas Jones from the Bears. They are paying a poor starting running back 5+ mil a year and they gave up a 2nd round pick for him (I believe that is correct). I really don't see Thomas Jones being better (or at least not much) than Droughns. I think they are very similar RB's. The Giants got the steal.THOMAS JONES IS ONE OF THE WORST STARTING 10 RB'S IN THE NFL.

x 10If you are going to bash a trade, at least know what the trade involved. The Jets and Bears swapped 2nd rounders in exchange for Jones, they didn't completely give up a second rounder. That knocks your credibility down a notch right off the bat - and the rest is gone after you say that Jones = Droughns.

Beat me to it. It was a swap, not an outright trade. Just like the trade a few years for Doug Jolley, where many still think that the Jets gave up a 1st for him rather than swap picks.

Ahh people so quick to judge First, I did say "I think", and what I should have written was a 3rd round because that was the equivalent supposedly of the drop down. People are so quick to judge, but see belowNow for the important part. The Jets paid starting money for a guy who has never been real good. The Bears are a good run blocking team and Jones was pedestrian AGAIN. Now let's see if my comparison of Droughns and Thomas Jones was so crazy. The last 3 years (Remember Thomas Jones was on a better team)

Age		   Height 	  Weight	Rush Yards	YPC	Receiving yards	YPR	  Total TD'sThomas Jones	 28	 5' 10"		 220		 3493		 4.1		 724		   6.1		 22Ruben Droughns	28	5' 11"		 220		 3230		 4.0		 779		   7.9		 19

I mean how can I say these guys are close when you look at the below? Crazy me

First, I'd like to know what Reuben Droughns has to do with this discussion to begin with? Is it that hard for you, as a Giants fan, to not somehow include something your team has done in a conversation about Jet players.Next, check your numbers. First, Droughns has 14 total TDs in the last 3 years, not 19. Second, 8 of those 14 came in 1 year, his 1 big year, with Denver (aka the fantasy RB factory.) Almost 40% of his rushing yards came while he was in a system built for running backs. Since he's come to Cleveland, his numbers, namely his YPC, have dropped steadily from 4.5 to 4.0, to 3.4 culminating in him even losing some starts/getting outrushed by Jason Wright last year.How exactly are you going to say Jones was on "the better team" and conveniently neglect the part that a good chunk of Droughns' statistics were compiled in 2004 when he was in Denver, playing behind a line where I once rushed for 1,000 yards in a season?Say Jones was "pedestrian" all you want, the fact is, he was effective enough last year to keep the "great" Cedric Benson on the bench and help bring his team to the Superbowl, where he had a fantastic game. The fact that you are trying to bring Droughns into a thread about Thomas Jones and Leon Washington while also trying to downplay the Jets' acquisition by insisting that the Giants somehow got the "steal" is laughable. The Giants traded a scrub for a mediocre veteran back who can help take some of the pressure off of Brandon Jacobs, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[renesauz]

Great thread concerning RBBC. Does anyone think that WRs may be gaining more value in FF?

Only the stud WR's, but I think it has more to do with the current WCO trend, and more teams trying to spread the ball around then force it to just one or two recievers. IE: Stud recievers seem to be seperating themselves a bit more then before. I haven't done/seen a study on this though, so I could be wrong.

RBs getting 300 carries are going the way of the dodo. Getting a stable of 220 touch runners is becoming more and more the norm in FF>

Besides the fact this is 100% incorrect, good post. RBs with 300 carries2000 - 92001 - 102002 - 92003 - 132004 - 92005 - 102006 - 10 (Droughns w/ 297, so you could bump this to 11)

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh! As long as people keep believing in the "RBBC trend", we can take advantage of the falsehood!I'd like to see a deeper study on this topic. I don't think it's so much that the carries are going down for RB1's (statistics seem to show that they aren't!) as it is that more teams are focused on ensuring they have a quality RB2. There seem to be more quality RB2's in the league the last few years. I think that if we look closer, we might find that WR carries are decreasing, and RB3/4 carries are also on a downturn, RB1 carries are steady, and RB2 carries are UP. The net effect is to slightly depreciate the value of RB's in FF because there are more viable options on the better running teams with the RB2's. I have been truthfully confused by all the RBBC talk. It seems most believe in it, but if you looked at nothing but RB1 statistics year to year, and total team rushing yards year to year, the numbers simply don'timply RBBC. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think any of our studies to date have gone deep enough. We need to look at the third, fourth, and lower running options closer....I very strongly suspect they will explain why we THINK we're seeing a RBBC trend, when the truth is the opposite.

 

[Liquid Tension]

This shouldn't come as much of a surprise given Mangini's style, but worth noting for those that may have rather high expectations for Jones. To be fair, it's coming from a beat writer, but Cimini is usually pretty plugged in.I still expect Jones to get the lion's share of carries (including at the stripe), but Leon showed last year that he's too good to keep off the field. He's just not big enough to carry the ball an inordinate number of times.----------------------------Jets | Jones and Washington to share timeWed, 14 Mar 2007 21:49:32 -0700Rich Cimini, of the New York Daily News, reporting for the Sporting News, reports New York Jets head coach Eric Mangini is unlikely to turn the backfield into a one-man show. The Jets, who stole RB Thomas Jones from the Chicago Bears ( ), plan to use Jones with second-year RB Leon Washington. Statistics show that Jones is more effective when he carries the ball about 15 times per game, not 20 to 25.

I would like to know how the Jets "STOLE" Thomas Jones from the Bears. They are paying a poor starting running back 5+ mil a year and they gave up a 2nd round pick for him (I believe that is correct). I really don't see Thomas Jones being better (or at least not much) than Droughns. I think they are very similar RB's. The Giants got the steal.THOMAS JONES IS ONE OF THE WORST STARTING 10 RB'S IN THE NFL.

x 10If you are going to bash a trade, at least know what the trade involved. The Jets and Bears swapped 2nd rounders in exchange for Jones, they didn't completely give up a second rounder. That knocks your credibility down a notch right off the bat - and the rest is gone after you say that Jones = Droughns.

Beat me to it. It was a swap, not an outright trade. Just like the trade a few years for Doug Jolley, where many still think that the Jets gave up a 1st for him rather than swap picks.

Ahh people so quick to judge First, I did say "I think", and what I should have written was a 3rd round because that was the equivalent supposedly of the drop down. People are so quick to judge, but see belowNow for the important part. The Jets paid starting money for a guy who has never been real good. The Bears are a good run blocking team and Jones was pedestrian AGAIN. Now let's see if my comparison of Droughns and Thomas Jones was so crazy. The last 3 years (Remember Thomas Jones was on a better team)

Age		   Height 	  Weight	Rush Yards	YPC	Receiving yards	YPR	  Total TD'sThomas Jones	 28	 5' 10"		 220		 3493		 4.1		 724		   6.1		 22Ruben Droughns	28	5' 11"		 220		 3230		 4.0		 779		   7.9		 19

I mean how can I say these guys are close when you look at the below? Crazy me

First, I'd like to know what Reuben Droughns has to do with this discussion to begin with? Is it that hard for you, as a Giants fan, to not somehow include something your team has done in a conversation about Jet players.Next, check your numbers. First, Droughns has 14 total TDs in the last 3 years, not 19. Second, 8 of those 14 came in 1 year, his 1 big year, with Denver (aka the fantasy RB factory.) Almost 40% of his rushing yards came while he was in a system built for running backs. Since he's come to Cleveland, his numbers, namely his YPC, have dropped steadily from 4.5 to 4.0, to 3.4 culminating in him even losing some starts/getting outrushed by Jason Wright last year.How exactly are you going to say Jones was on "the better team" and conveniently neglect the part that a good chunk of Droughns' statistics were compiled in 2004 when he was in Denver, playing behind a line where I once rushed for 1,000 yards in a season?Say Jones was "pedestrian" all you want, the fact is, he was effective enough last year to keep the "great" Cedric Benson on the bench and help bring his team to the Superbowl, where he had a fantastic game. The fact that you are trying to bring Droughns into a thread about Thomas Jones and Leon Washington while also trying to downplay the Jets' acquisition by insisting that the Giants somehow got the "steal" is laughable. The Giants traded a scrub for a mediocre veteran back who can help take some of the pressure off of Brandon Jacobs, nothing more, nothing less.

First, let me apologize for the stat mistake. I am very careful about not misrepresenting the numbers, as one should be able to trust that people won't make up numbers. I put the numbers in excel and added the total career reception TD's to Droughns rushing totals rather than only the last 3 years of Droughns receiving TD's.The reason Droughns is in the argument is because I was comparing how similar he is to Thomas Jones and most people don't think so highly of Droughns. Therefore, I think the Jets overpaid for Thomas Jones by giving him 5 mil a year. Not sure why that is hard to follow?The silly comment about being a Giant fan has no bearing on this. I am a Dolphin fan and think them going after Trent Green is a dumb decision. Unlike some, I am fine with questioning my teams dumb decisions.Thomas Jones was on a better team for 66% of what the time frame I used, I think that is reasonable. If Thomas Jones is so great, why would a team that has SB aspirations let him go when they had him under contract for 2.5 mil a year? It is because they know he is mediocre and not worth the headache he was causing. They did get the equivalent of a 3rd round pick for him so they probably felt that the value may be similar.Your last paragraph basically summed up my argument. The Giants got a similar player as Thomas Jones for nothing and then paid him half of what Thomas Jones is getting (who the Jets gave up the equivalent of a 3rd round pick for). Yeah, it is really laughable that the Giants got the better deal Talk about wearing Jet green sunglasses. Look at a 3 year breakdown, their size, their age, their YPC and even the way they play (both are more powerful runners with limited speed) are SIMILAR, even if you think TJ is a little better the difference is NOT huge.

 

[Rovers]

This shouldn't come as much of a surprise given Mangini's style, but worth noting for those that may have rather high expectations for Jones. To be fair, it's coming from a beat writer, but Cimini is usually pretty plugged in.I still expect Jones to get the lion's share of carries (including at the stripe), but Leon showed last year that he's too good to keep off the field. He's just not big enough to carry the ball an inordinate number of times.----------------------------Jets | Jones and Washington to share timeWed, 14 Mar 2007 21:49:32 -0700Rich Cimini, of the New York Daily News, reporting for the Sporting News, reports New York Jets head coach Eric Mangini is unlikely to turn the backfield into a one-man show. The Jets, who stole RB Thomas Jones from the Chicago Bears ( ), plan to use Jones with second-year RB Leon Washington. Statistics show that Jones is more effective when he carries the ball about 15 times per game, not 20 to 25.

I would like to know how the Jets "STOLE" Thomas Jones from the Bears. They are paying a poor starting running back 5+ mil a year and they gave up a 2nd round pick for him (I believe that is correct). I really don't see Thomas Jones being better (or at least not much) than Droughns. I think they are very similar RB's. The Giants got the steal.THOMAS JONES IS ONE OF THE WORST STARTING 10 RB'S IN THE NFL.

x 10If you are going to bash a trade, at least know what the trade involved. The Jets and Bears swapped 2nd rounders in exchange for Jones, they didn't completely give up a second rounder. That knocks your credibility down a notch right off the bat - and the rest is gone after you say that Jones = Droughns.

Beat me to it. It was a swap, not an outright trade. Just like the trade a few years for Doug Jolley, where many still think that the Jets gave up a 1st for him rather than swap picks.

Ahh people so quick to judge First, I did say "I think", and what I should have written was a 3rd round because that was the equivalent supposedly of the drop down. People are so quick to judge, but see belowNow for the important part. The Jets paid starting money for a guy who has never been real good. The Bears are a good run blocking team and Jones was pedestrian AGAIN. Now let's see if my comparison of Droughns and Thomas Jones was so crazy. The last 3 years (Remember Thomas Jones was on a better team)

Age		   Height 	  Weight	Rush Yards	YPC	Receiving yards	YPR	  Total TD'sThomas Jones	 28	 5' 10"		 220		 3493		 4.1		 724		   6.1		 22Ruben Droughns	28	5' 11"		 220		 3230		 4.0		 779		   7.9		 19

I mean how can I say these guys are close when you look at the below? Crazy me

First, I'd like to know what Reuben Droughns has to do with this discussion to begin with? Is it that hard for you, as a Giants fan, to not somehow include something your team has done in a conversation about Jet players.Next, check your numbers. First, Droughns has 14 total TDs in the last 3 years, not 19. Second, 8 of those 14 came in 1 year, his 1 big year, with Denver (aka the fantasy RB factory.) Almost 40% of his rushing yards came while he was in a system built for running backs. Since he's come to Cleveland, his numbers, namely his YPC, have dropped steadily from 4.5 to 4.0, to 3.4 culminating in him even losing some starts/getting outrushed by Jason Wright last year.How exactly are you going to say Jones was on "the better team" and conveniently neglect the part that a good chunk of Droughns' statistics were compiled in 2004 when he was in Denver, playing behind a line where I once rushed for 1,000 yards in a season?Say Jones was "pedestrian" all you want, the fact is, he was effective enough last year to keep the "great" Cedric Benson on the bench and help bring his team to the Superbowl, where he had a fantastic game. The fact that you are trying to bring Droughns into a thread about Thomas Jones and Leon Washington while also trying to downplay the Jets' acquisition by insisting that the Giants somehow got the "steal" is laughable. The Giants traded a scrub for a mediocre veteran back who can help take some of the pressure off of Brandon Jacobs, nothing more, nothing less.

First, let me apologize for the stat mistake. I am very careful about not misrepresenting the numbers, as one should be able to trust that people won't make up numbers. I put the numbers in excel and added the total career reception TD's to Droughns rushing totals rather than only the last 3 years of Droughns receiving TD's.The reason Droughns is in the argument is because I was comparing how similar he is to Thomas Jones and most people don't think so highly of Droughns. Therefore, I think the Jets overpaid for Thomas Jones by giving him 5 mil a year. Not sure why that is hard to follow?The silly comment about being a Giant fan has no bearing on this. I am a Dolphin fan and think them going after Trent Green is a dumb decision. Unlike some, I am fine with questioning my teams dumb decisions.Thomas Jones was on a better team for 66% of what the time frame I used, I think that is reasonable. If Thomas Jones is so great, why would a team that has SB aspirations let him go when they had him under contract for 2.5 mil a year? It is because they know he is mediocre and not worth the headache he was causing. They did get the equivalent of a 3rd round pick for him so they probably felt that the value may be similar.Your last paragraph basically summed up my argument. The Giants got a similar player as Thomas Jones for nothing and then paid him half of what Thomas Jones is getting (who the Jets gave up the equivalent of a 3rd round pick for). Yeah, it is really laughable that the Giants got the better deal Talk about wearing Jet green sunglasses. Look at a 3 year breakdown, their size, their age, their YPC and even the way they play (both are more powerful runners with limited speed) are SIMILAR, even if you think TJ is a little better the difference is NOT huge.

Stats are fine, but watching RB's is better than evaluating them soley on numbers. Jones is faster, shiftier and a better all around RB than Droughns can ever hope to be. This Jones=Droughns debate is borderline silliness. Jones is clearly a better RB. Having said that, Jones isn't gonna fix a bad rushing offense for the Jets. Until the Jets' offensive line can start to run block effectively, it will remain an offense that runs a lot but doesn't perform, I don't care who the RB is, or are. The Bears offensive line is a much better unit in terms of run blocking, and the stats Jones compiled in Chicago won't be duplicated in NY until the right side of the Jets O line can get better.

 

[Liquid Tension]

This shouldn't come as much of a surprise given Mangini's style, but worth noting for those that may have rather high expectations for Jones. To be fair, it's coming from a beat writer, but Cimini is usually pretty plugged in.I still expect Jones to get the lion's share of carries (including at the stripe), but Leon showed last year that he's too good to keep off the field. He's just not big enough to carry the ball an inordinate number of times.----------------------------Jets | Jones and Washington to share timeWed, 14 Mar 2007 21:49:32 -0700Rich Cimini, of the New York Daily News, reporting for the Sporting News, reports New York Jets head coach Eric Mangini is unlikely to turn the backfield into a one-man show. The Jets, who stole RB Thomas Jones from the Chicago Bears ( ), plan to use Jones with second-year RB Leon Washington. Statistics show that Jones is more effective when he carries the ball about 15 times per game, not 20 to 25.

I would like to know how the Jets "STOLE" Thomas Jones from the Bears. They are paying a poor starting running back 5+ mil a year and they gave up a 2nd round pick for him (I believe that is correct). I really don't see Thomas Jones being better (or at least not much) than Droughns. I think they are very similar RB's. The Giants got the steal.THOMAS JONES IS ONE OF THE WORST STARTING 10 RB'S IN THE NFL.

x 10If you are going to bash a trade, at least know what the trade involved. The Jets and Bears swapped 2nd rounders in exchange for Jones, they didn't completely give up a second rounder. That knocks your credibility down a notch right off the bat - and the rest is gone after you say that Jones = Droughns.

Beat me to it. It was a swap, not an outright trade. Just like the trade a few years for Doug Jolley, where many still think that the Jets gave up a 1st for him rather than swap picks.

Ahh people so quick to judge First, I did say "I think", and what I should have written was a 3rd round because that was the equivalent supposedly of the drop down. People are so quick to judge, but see belowNow for the important part. The Jets paid starting money for a guy who has never been real good. The Bears are a good run blocking team and Jones was pedestrian AGAIN. Now let's see if my comparison of Droughns and Thomas Jones was so crazy. The last 3 years (Remember Thomas Jones was on a better team)

Age		   Height 	  Weight	Rush Yards	YPC	Receiving yards	YPR	  Total TD'sThomas Jones	 28	 5' 10"		 220		 3493		 4.1		 724		   6.1		 22Ruben Droughns	28	5' 11"		 220		 3230		 4.0		 779		   7.9		 19

I mean how can I say these guys are close when you look at the below? Crazy me

First, I'd like to know what Reuben Droughns has to do with this discussion to begin with? Is it that hard for you, as a Giants fan, to not somehow include something your team has done in a conversation about Jet players.Next, check your numbers. First, Droughns has 14 total TDs in the last 3 years, not 19. Second, 8 of those 14 came in 1 year, his 1 big year, with Denver (aka the fantasy RB factory.) Almost 40% of his rushing yards came while he was in a system built for running backs. Since he's come to Cleveland, his numbers, namely his YPC, have dropped steadily from 4.5 to 4.0, to 3.4 culminating in him even losing some starts/getting outrushed by Jason Wright last year.How exactly are you going to say Jones was on "the better team" and conveniently neglect the part that a good chunk of Droughns' statistics were compiled in 2004 when he was in Denver, playing behind a line where I once rushed for 1,000 yards in a season?Say Jones was "pedestrian" all you want, the fact is, he was effective enough last year to keep the "great" Cedric Benson on the bench and help bring his team to the Superbowl, where he had a fantastic game. The fact that you are trying to bring Droughns into a thread about Thomas Jones and Leon Washington while also trying to downplay the Jets' acquisition by insisting that the Giants somehow got the "steal" is laughable. The Giants traded a scrub for a mediocre veteran back who can help take some of the pressure off of Brandon Jacobs, nothing more, nothing less.

First, let me apologize for the stat mistake. I am very careful about not misrepresenting the numbers, as one should be able to trust that people won't make up numbers. I put the numbers in excel and added the total career reception TD's to Droughns rushing totals rather than only the last 3 years of Droughns receiving TD's.The reason Droughns is in the argument is because I was comparing how similar he is to Thomas Jones and most people don't think so highly of Droughns. Therefore, I think the Jets overpaid for Thomas Jones by giving him 5 mil a year. Not sure why that is hard to follow?The silly comment about being a Giant fan has no bearing on this. I am a Dolphin fan and think them going after Trent Green is a dumb decision. Unlike some, I am fine with questioning my teams dumb decisions.Thomas Jones was on a better team for 66% of what the time frame I used, I think that is reasonable. If Thomas Jones is so great, why would a team that has SB aspirations let him go when they had him under contract for 2.5 mil a year? It is because they know he is mediocre and not worth the headache he was causing. They did get the equivalent of a 3rd round pick for him so they probably felt that the value may be similar.Your last paragraph basically summed up my argument. The Giants got a similar player as Thomas Jones for nothing and then paid him half of what Thomas Jones is getting (who the Jets gave up the equivalent of a 3rd round pick for). Yeah, it is really laughable that the Giants got the better deal Talk about wearing Jet green sunglasses. Look at a 3 year breakdown, their size, their age, their YPC and even the way they play (both are more powerful runners with limited speed) are SIMILAR, even if you think TJ is a little better the difference is NOT huge.

Stats are fine, but watching RB's is better than evaluating them soley on numbers. Jones is faster, shiftier and a better all around RB than Droughns can ever hope to be. This Jones=Droughns debate is borderline silliness. Jones is clearly a better RB. Having said that, Jones isn't gonna fix a bad rushing offense for the Jets. Until the Jets' offensive line can start to run block effectively, it will remain an offense that runs a lot but doesn't perform, I don't care who the RB is, or are. The Bears offensive line is a much better unit in terms of run blocking, and the stats Jones compiled in Chicago won't be duplicated in NY until the right side of the Jets O line can get better.

Jones is faster? Shiftier? and better all around? I agree that watching is a good way to analyze, but people's own perceptions get in the way. I have had Thomas Jones on my team and have never had Droughns. I like the Bears and don't like Denver or Cleveland and I think that they are very similar and anyone who says THAT is silly isn't analyzing well. You might say you prefer Jones; that is fine, but there is not a large difference either way. They are both the same size, weight and age and have comparable stats. On top of that I think Droughns breaks tackles better and runs with a little more power. I also think he is a better blocker (he has played FB). Neither guy is fast, but Jones is a little shiftier with his lateral movement.Overall if I had to get stuck with one of them as my starter (they are both clearly poor starting RB's) it would be a close decision, but I would take TJ only because he played well in a big game (huge holes though). the difference is so small though and if the money and the amount given up come into the equation, I would take Droughns without question.I don't see how you are not seeing that Droughns for 2-3 mil a year less plus no real signing bonus, plus you didn't have to give up the equivalent of a 3rd round pick is not worth any difference there may be between TJ and Droughns

 

[Z-Dog]

This shouldn't come as much of a surprise given Mangini's style, but worth noting for those that may have rather high expectations for Jones. To be fair, it's coming from a beat writer, but Cimini is usually pretty plugged in.I still expect Jones to get the lion's share of carries (including at the stripe), but Leon showed last year that he's too good to keep off the field. He's just not big enough to carry the ball an inordinate number of times.----------------------------Jets | Jones and Washington to share timeWed, 14 Mar 2007 21:49:32 -0700Rich Cimini, of the New York Daily News, reporting for the Sporting News, reports New York Jets head coach Eric Mangini is unlikely to turn the backfield into a one-man show. The Jets, who stole RB Thomas Jones from the Chicago Bears ( ), plan to use Jones with second-year RB Leon Washington. Statistics show that Jones is more effective when he carries the ball about 15 times per game, not 20 to 25.

I would like to know how the Jets "STOLE" Thomas Jones from the Bears. They are paying a poor starting running back 5+ mil a year and they gave up a 2nd round pick for him (I believe that is correct). I really don't see Thomas Jones being better (or at least not much) than Droughns. I think they are very similar RB's. The Giants got the steal.THOMAS JONES IS ONE OF THE WORST STARTING 10 RB'S IN THE NFL.

x 10If you are going to bash a trade, at least know what the trade involved. The Jets and Bears swapped 2nd rounders in exchange for Jones, they didn't completely give up a second rounder. That knocks your credibility down a notch right off the bat - and the rest is gone after you say that Jones = Droughns.

Beat me to it. It was a swap, not an outright trade. Just like the trade a few years for Doug Jolley, where many still think that the Jets gave up a 1st for him rather than swap picks.

Ahh people so quick to judge First, I did say "I think", and what I should have written was a 3rd round because that was the equivalent supposedly of the drop down. People are so quick to judge, but see belowNow for the important part. The Jets paid starting money for a guy who has never been real good. The Bears are a good run blocking team and Jones was pedestrian AGAIN. Now let's see if my comparison of Droughns and Thomas Jones was so crazy. The last 3 years (Remember Thomas Jones was on a better team)

Age		   Height 	  Weight	Rush Yards	YPC	Receiving yards	YPR	  Total TD'sThomas Jones	 28	 5' 10"		 220		 3493		 4.1		 724		   6.1		 22Ruben Droughns	28	5' 11"		 220		 3230		 4.0		 779		   7.9		 19

I mean how can I say these guys are close when you look at the below? Crazy me

First, I'd like to know what Reuben Droughns has to do with this discussion to begin with? Is it that hard for you, as a Giants fan, to not somehow include something your team has done in a conversation about Jet players.Next, check your numbers. First, Droughns has 14 total TDs in the last 3 years, not 19. Second, 8 of those 14 came in 1 year, his 1 big year, with Denver (aka the fantasy RB factory.) Almost 40% of his rushing yards came while he was in a system built for running backs. Since he's come to Cleveland, his numbers, namely his YPC, have dropped steadily from 4.5 to 4.0, to 3.4 culminating in him even losing some starts/getting outrushed by Jason Wright last year.How exactly are you going to say Jones was on "the better team" and conveniently neglect the part that a good chunk of Droughns' statistics were compiled in 2004 when he was in Denver, playing behind a line where I once rushed for 1,000 yards in a season?Say Jones was "pedestrian" all you want, the fact is, he was effective enough last year to keep the "great" Cedric Benson on the bench and help bring his team to the Superbowl, where he had a fantastic game. The fact that you are trying to bring Droughns into a thread about Thomas Jones and Leon Washington while also trying to downplay the Jets' acquisition by insisting that the Giants somehow got the "steal" is laughable. The Giants traded a scrub for a mediocre veteran back who can help take some of the pressure off of Brandon Jacobs, nothing more, nothing less.

First, let me apologize for the stat mistake. I am very careful about not misrepresenting the numbers, as one should be able to trust that people won't make up numbers. I put the numbers in excel and added the total career reception TD's to Droughns rushing totals rather than only the last 3 years of Droughns receiving TD's.The reason Droughns is in the argument is because I was comparing how similar he is to Thomas Jones and most people don't think so highly of Droughns. Therefore, I think the Jets overpaid for Thomas Jones by giving him 5 mil a year. Not sure why that is hard to follow?The silly comment about being a Giant fan has no bearing on this. I am a Dolphin fan and think them going after Trent Green is a dumb decision. Unlike some, I am fine with questioning my teams dumb decisions.Thomas Jones was on a better team for 66% of what the time frame I used, I think that is reasonable. If Thomas Jones is so great, why would a team that has SB aspirations let him go when they had him under contract for 2.5 mil a year? It is because they know he is mediocre and not worth the headache he was causing. They did get the equivalent of a 3rd round pick for him so they probably felt that the value may be similar.Your last paragraph basically summed up my argument. The Giants got a similar player as Thomas Jones for nothing and then paid him half of what Thomas Jones is getting (who the Jets gave up the equivalent of a 3rd round pick for). Yeah, it is really laughable that the Giants got the better deal Talk about wearing Jet green sunglasses. Look at a 3 year breakdown, their size, their age, their YPC and even the way they play (both are more powerful runners with limited speed) are SIMILAR, even if you think TJ is a little better the difference is NOT huge.

Stats are fine, but watching RB's is better than evaluating them soley on numbers. Jones is faster, shiftier and a better all around RB than Droughns can ever hope to be. This Jones=Droughns debate is borderline silliness. Jones is clearly a better RB. Having said that, Jones isn't gonna fix a bad rushing offense for the Jets. Until the Jets' offensive line can start to run block effectively, it will remain an offense that runs a lot but doesn't perform, I don't care who the RB is, or are. The Bears offensive line is a much better unit in terms of run blocking, and the stats Jones compiled in Chicago won't be duplicated in NY until the right side of the Jets O line can get better.

Jones is faster? Shiftier? and better all around? I agree that watching is a good way to analyze, but people's own perceptions get in the way. I have had Thomas Jones on my team and have never had Droughns. I like the Bears and don't like Denver or Cleveland and I think that they are very similar and anyone who says THAT is silly isn't analyzing well. You might say you prefer Jones; that is fine, but there is not a large difference either way. They are both the same size, weight and age and have comparable stats. On top of that I think Droughns breaks tackles better and runs with a little more power. I also think he is a better blocker (he has played FB). Neither guy is fast, but Jones is a little shiftier with his lateral movement.Overall if I had to get stuck with one of them as my starter (they are both clearly poor starting RB's) it would be a close decision, but I would take TJ only because he played well in a big game (huge holes though). the difference is so small though and if the money and the amount given up come into the equation, I would take Droughns without question.I don't see how you are not seeing that Droughns for 2-3 mil a year less plus no real signing bonus, plus you didn't have to give up the equivalent of a 3rd round pick is not worth any difference there may be between TJ and Droughns

I think we're getting tangled up in what we mean by better. In fantasy football, Droughns has been a pleasant surprise and nice producer, while Jones spent his early career being a disappointment. But there overall numbers from the last few years are basically the same, so it's fair to say that from an FF perspective, they're similar players. I don't think the same can be said of real football. There's a reason that Thomas Jones was a top pick and Droughns was like a 7th-rounder. There's a reason Reuben Droughns couldn't find a starting gig in the offseason. Jones is easily the better player, and I don't think there's an NFL GM who would disagree. You want to argue that he isn't a good value based on the cap? I don't know - $5 million/year is pretty cheap, considering that it's what Lamont Jordan got, and that was a couple of years ago, and before the giant cap increase. Assuming we agree that Jones>Jordan, I think it's a pretty decent deal. And let's not forget how bad Droughns looked last year, and how good Jones has looked the last three.

 

[EBF]

Haven't read this monstrosity, but my 2 cents:

Thomas Jones is significantly better than Leon Washington. He'll get a lion's share of the carries.

 

[moleculo]

Jets 13, Bal 20:

Rushing ATT YDS TD LG

T. Jones 24 67 0 9

K. Clemens 3 2 0 1

wha happened?

 

[packersfan]

I'm less surprised by Washington's lack of a role in the running game as I am by the fact he had only one target in the passing game. He was a complete non-factor against the Ravens. I didn't expect him to do anything but I figured he'd catch 2-4 passes given how they would likely need to throw a lot.

 

[zamboni]

Jets 13, Bal 20:Rushing ATT YDS TD LGT. Jones 24 67 0 9K. Clemens 3 2 0 1wha happened?

Mangini seemed to want to pound right at the Baltimore front with Jones, which is probably why Leon was non-existent. Probably felt that Baltimore's perimeter speed wouldn't fit in well with Leon's skill set.

 

[moleculo]

I'm less surprised by Washington's lack of a role in the running game as I am by the fact he had only one target in the passing game. He was a complete non-factor against the Ravens. I didn't expect him to do anything but I figured he'd catch 2-4 passes given how they would likely need to throw a lot.

yeah, that was my thinking as well. Zero carries and one reception - not sharing time at all. Were expectations for LWashington too high going into the season?

 

[zamboni]

I'm less surprised by Washington's lack of a role in the running game as I am by the fact he had only one target in the passing game. He was a complete non-factor against the Ravens. I didn't expect him to do anything but I figured he'd catch 2-4 passes given how they would likely need to throw a lot.

yeah, that was my thinking as well. Zero carries and one reception - not sharing time at all. Were expectations for LWashington too high going into the season?

Depends on what one's expectations were. Jones was brought in to be the primary guy, with Leon spelling him from time to time.I do think the Baltimore game was more of an anomaly in terms of LW's touches though. He won't get 20+ touches as long as TJ is healthy, but should see considerably more PT than he got against a ferocious defense.

 

[chidoy]

I'm less surprised by Washington's lack of a role in the running game as I am by the fact he had only one target in the passing game. He was a complete non-factor against the Ravens. I didn't expect him to do anything but I figured he'd catch 2-4 passes given how they would likely need to throw a lot.

yeah, that was my thinking as well. Zero carries and one reception - not sharing time at all. Were expectations for LWashington too high going into the season?

Depends on what one's expectations were. Jones was brought in to be the primary guy, with Leon spelling him from time to time.I do think the Baltimore game was more of an anomaly in terms of LW's touches though. He won't get 20+ touches as long as TJ is healthy, but should see considerably more PT than he got against a ferocious defense.