Ticketmaster fees.... are you kidding me? (1 Viewer)

[Bull Dozier]

Ticketmaster is only partly to blame. Bands want to look like they’re the good guys to their fans so they contract with the venues and Ticketmaster to price everything so that the ticket prices are cheaper with lots of other fees. Bands could easily just price their tickets 30% higher to pay Ticketmaster and the venues with no extra fees, but obviously don’t want to do that because they don’t want to look like they’re greedy and gouging their fans. So they make Ticketmaster break out the other fees so that they come out looking better and everyone else looks greedy.

With that being said, those fees are ridiculous.

Disagree.  Ticketmaster has exclusive contracts with venues and are the only ones that can sell tickets to any show in that venue.  Since they have a monopoly, they can charge exhorbinant fees because there are no alternative, no competition.  Having no competition, there is no market force to drive prices down.  Why should the band take the hit to make Ticketmaster look good?  Fans are going to pay what they pay to see a band, but there's no reason it shouldn't be out front an center that ticketmaster is making insane profits off of an automated service.

 

[Shula-holic]

TM/LN actually own a lot of venues and therefore control the inventory so you have to go through them.  My company is a resale partner with TM, we upload our inventory to them to resell.  Based on the price we charge them, they then integrate our inventory on their maps and list our tickets for sale.  The same is true of Stubhub, Vivid Seats, Seatgeek, etc.  If we send them a price of $100 on a ticket, it may not show $100 plus fees there.  It's likely going to show something like $93 plus fees.  Another site may have them at $96, another at $88.  You always have to look at your all in final cart price.  Even their own site may have different algorithms on how a given priced ticket is shown.  For instance, I've noticed for college football, we could have two games priced the same but the prices their customers see may be two different amounts and two different fee structures.

 

[Shula-holic]

Ticketmaster is only partly to blame. Bands want to look like they’re the good guys to their fans so they contract with the venues and Ticketmaster to price everything so that the ticket prices are cheaper with lots of other fees. Bands could easily just price their tickets 30% higher to pay Ticketmaster and the venues with no extra fees, but obviously don’t want to do that because they don’t want to look like they’re greedy and gouging their fans. So they make Ticketmaster break out the other fees so that they come out looking better and everyone else looks greedy.

With that being said, those fees are ridiculous.

Very true.  Ticketmaster allows bands/performers to set the parameters through which they resell the tickets.  For instance, when you see a 4 ticket limit or 8 ticket limit, that is never a Ticketmaster thing.  Ticketmaster is happy if you bought all the inventory and all the fees went to them, but they allow the venues and performers to set these limits.  They also have to enforce price floors that the performers set.  So that often makes TM look like the bad guy as you say when it's really the band themselves offering the high priced "resale" tickets.  These tickets aren't actually brokers, in most cases it's the bands themselves doing it to max revenue while not looking like the "scalper" to their own fans.

Another thing that has changed in the past 3 years or so is teams selling their own tickets on the secondary market.  These days when you look at college football on Stubhub, many teams who are integrated with Stubhub barcodes are marking up their own inventory to resell and participate in that market.  In more high demand markets, the few tickets that aren't renewed via annual renewals are never offered to the teams' waitlists anymore, they go into the resale basket and into the secondary market.

 

[DallasDMac]

This thread is one of the few things that makes me happy I'm to old to do this kind of stuff anymore.

 

[FairWarning]

Very true.  Ticketmaster allows bands/performers to set the parameters through which they resell the tickets.  For instance, when you see a 4 ticket limit or 8 ticket limit, that is never a Ticketmaster thing.  Ticketmaster is happy if you bought all the inventory and all the fees went to them, but they allow the venues and performers to set these limits.  They also have to enforce price floors that the performers set.  So that often makes TM look like the bad guy as you say when it's really the band themselves offering the high priced "resale" tickets.  These tickets aren't actually brokers, in most cases it's the bands themselves doing it to max revenue while not looking like the "scalper" to their own fans.

Another thing that has changed in the past 3 years or so is teams selling their own tickets on the secondary market.  These days when you look at college football on Stubhub, many teams who are integrated with Stubhub barcodes are marking up their own inventory to resell and participate in that market.  In more high demand markets, the few tickets that aren't renewed via annual renewals are never offered to the teams' waitlists anymore, they go into the resale basket and into the secondary market.

The Cubs were the first to scalp their own tickets, so they could get around paying more money to the road teams.

 

[Shula-holic]

The Cubs were the first to scalp their own tickets, so they could get around paying more money to the road teams.

At this point most pro teams have deals with brokers who are “consolidators” who try and take tickets away from other brokers and fans who resell their tickets more than average. You may have seen articles on fans having that happen to them  This gives the consolidator a firmer monopoly on the secondary and he in turn funnels either a cut of the profit or a guaranteed minimum or some combination of the two to the team itself. 

 

[FairWarning]

At this point most pro teams have deals with brokers who are “consolidators” who try and take tickets away from other brokers and fans who resell their tickets more than average. You may have seen articles on fans having that happen to them  This gives the consolidator a firmer monopoly on the secondary and he in turn funnels either a cut of the profit or a guaranteed minimum or some combination of the two to the team itself. 

The Cubs did that, revoked season tickets back in the mid-teens, then started Wrigley Field  Premium Ticket Services.  I haven't been to a game since.

When MLB cracked down, then dynamic pricing started.

 

[Shula-holic]

The Cubs did that, revoked season tickets back in the mid-teens, then started Wrigley Field  Premium Ticket Services.  I haven't been to a game since.

When MLB cracked down, then dynamic pricing started.

Yeah I've heard stories on them.  The Indians are pretty notorious too.  But a large number of teams now have deals cut.  We have Braves club seats and they are a 7 year contract that spells out terms etc.  They got angry with me when they found out I was a broker, and by them let me be clear that their outside sales agent knew this in advance and offered me "sweetener" seats in row 1 to get me to take the premium clubs.  After he was long gone, the ticket manager decided he didn't like me selling the tickets.  I offered to turn them back over to them and walk because I don't need the hassle.  But after all the posturing they did, they wouldn't let me do that.  I got pretty annoyed they are angry and pretty downright hostile towards me, yet they won't let me walk.  Makes no sense.  Their ticket manager and myself aren't on each other's Christmas lists.

About 10-12 years ago, I used to buy Cubs tickets on tickets.com when single games hit.  I even had some bleacher seats here and there.  Small margins even back then so they pretty much had them marked at retail even back then.

 

[Todem]

What I do these days is not bother buying tickets until a day or two before the show. Someone will need to change their plans and you can get them cheaper then 

I do the same. Two years ago......I saw Iron maiden was in town. I had not planned on going as I took my son to the previous tour (Book of Souls Tour). Well I said what the hell...went on Stub Hub....grabbed 2 tickets for 75 a pice including all fee’s for the side section right next to the stage. Amazing seats....cheap (they went for $150 a piece face value) the day of the show.

This is seriously the best way to play it.

 

[FairWarning]

I do the same. Two years ago......I saw Iron maiden was in town. I had not planned on going as I took my son to the previous tour (Book of Souls Tour). Well I said what the hell...went on Stub Hub....grabbed 2 tickets for 75 a pice including all fee’s for the side section right next to the stage. Amazing seats....cheap (they went for $150 a piece face value) the day of the show.

This is seriously the best way to play it.

A great concert I bet.  I saw them a few times back in the 80's.

 

[HERBERT THE HIPPO]

Looking at buying tickets for the Green Day, Weezer and Fall Out Boy (my daughter loves all three), concert in Miami later this year...... $136.00 in fees, how is this ok?

$335.70

Tickets

Standard Ticket: $99.50 x 2

$199.00

Fees

Service Fee: $29.85 x 2 $59.70

Facility Charge: $36.00 x 2 $72.00

Order Processing Fee $5.00

Delivery

Go Mobile

Free

So this is weird, just for the heck of it I searched for tickets with the same price but in a different section and the facility charge dropped from $36 to $6.00.

$263.20

Tickets

Standard Ticket: $99.50 x 2 $199.00

Fees Service Fee: $23.60 x 2 $47.20

Facility Charge: $6.00 x  $12.00

Order Processing Fee $5.00

Delivery

Go Mobile

Free

 

[Binky The Doormat]

So this is weird, just for the heck of it I searched for tickets with the same price but in a different section and the facility charge dropped from $36 to $6.00.

$263.20

Tickets

Standard Ticket: $99.50 x 2 $199.00

Fees Service Fee: $23.60 x 2 $47.20

Facility Charge: $6.00 x  $12.00

Order Processing Fee $5.00

Delivery

Go Mobile

Free

redonkulus

 

[ThaPenguin]

So this is weird, just for the heck of it I searched for tickets with the same price but in a different section and the facility charge dropped from $36 to $6.00.

$263.20

Tickets

Standard Ticket: $99.50 x 2 $199.00

Fees Service Fee: $23.60 x 2 $47.20

Facility Charge: $6.00 x  $12.00

Order Processing Fee $5.00

Delivery

Go Mobile

Free

Just out of morbid curiosity, can you share what the original section or seat location was with the $36 facility fee? Want to go into the map and check it out.

Working with the Ticketmaster system previously, I am fairly certain the $36 facility fee was a typo and someone fat-fingered when putting in the $6, bumping the 3 in the process. $36 for a facility fee is extremely high, and normally that is used to go back to the bands or the promoters to keep the ticket price down...as someone in here mentioned previously. Part of the service fee also goes back to the bands, usually a split between the bands and Ticketmaster, but sometimes the venue gets a cut...all depends on the contract.

It's crazy, but people pay it, so I don't see it getting better anytime soon, especially with these bands making no money off records anymore, and taking basically the last year off.

 

[Jaysus]

Just out of morbid curiosity, can you share what the original section or seat location was with the $36 facility fee? Want to go into the map and check it out.

Working with the Ticketmaster system previously, I am fairly certain the $36 facility fee was a typo and someone fat-fingered when putting in the $6, bumping the 3 in the process. $36 for a facility fee is extremely high, and normally that is used to go back to the bands or the promoters to keep the ticket price down...as someone in here mentioned previously. Part of the service fee also goes back to the bands, usually a split between the bands and Ticketmaster, but sometimes the venue gets a cut...all depends on the contract.

It's crazy, but people pay it, so I don't see it getting better anytime soon, especially with these bands making no money off records anymore, and taking basically the last year off.

Huh, I assumed all of those fees were how Tickmaster screwed the band out of more money... only giving them a cut of ticket sales or something, not the total transaction price.

 

[ThaPenguin]

Huh, I assumed all of those fees were how Tickmaster screwed the band out of more money... only giving them a cut of ticket sales or something, not the total transaction price.

It of course varies venue to venue, but in most cases:

Ticket Price - split between band and promoter
Service Fees - split between band and Ticketmaster, sometimes venue and promoter get a cut
Facility Fees - used to be 100% to the venue (hence the name), now is just a dumping ground that they don't want lumped into ticket price (credit card fees, promoter cut, artist charities, amenities, bundles, VIP upcharges)
Processing Fee - usually 100% to Ticketmaster (hence the name), but I saw some savvy venues take a cut of this, but this is uncommon

Moral of the story, the venue collects a lump sum for "rent", and needs to make the rest of their profit on concessions, and parking if they own the lots or get a cut of that. Pretty thin margin once you account for all of the operating and labor costs.