Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
How does this affect them all?
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Titans value with Moss (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Dr. Awesome
- Start date
TheChairman
Footballguy
We're going to need a few threads for each guy.
Invictus~Bronte
Footballguy
Great for CJ, as it takes heat off the line for sure, just like when Britt was in. Sucks for Britt as they :A) will be in no hurry to get him on the field.B) all those deep ball and RZ now will be Moss 1st option
Goldfinger007
Footballguy
I agree, CJ is the big winner as Moss should keep the safeties out of the box. It could open up the TE's or slot receivers in the middle too.
BallparkFrank
Footballguy
If I'm a D coordinator, I think I'm taking the exact opposite approach than the rest of you. I'm going to continue stacking the box to stop CJ as he's by far their most dangerous weapon and I'm going to take the double teams off Moss finally and challenge him to beat me. Moss still deserves some respect, but to beat the Titans, you have to stop CJ first...still.
towney
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
"Vince Young: Tennessee’s offense is predicated on the play action and deep ball, so Moss’ addition will stretch the field even further. The team is averaging only 26.1 passes per game, 30th in the league. That number should rise, especially considering the pass defenses the team is scheduled to face; Week 11 (30th), Week 12 (32nd), Week 13 (28th), Week 14 (7th), Week 15 (32nd), Week 16 (23rd), and Week 17 (7th). Young is expected to be back after the bye week, though it’s anyone’s guess as to how much practice time he and Moss will have together before their Week 10 matchup at Miami. If you have room to wait a week for Young, snatch him up."
Ok, I'm surprised there isn't more talk here and in the other thread about how/why Young is now a great pickup.
I love the idea of this combo.
I also loved the idea of the Favre/moss combo. And that was a FF flop.
Favre and Harvin did improve with Moss, that's my gut impression. But not enough from a FF perspective, but Favre clearly has some physicial limitations that he just will not get past this season. Not so with Young.
The Pats: well they are still winning but Brady's FF's numbers definitely took a hit after game 3.
Have you seen Brady's FF numbers lately? I am seriously wondering if Young isn't a better FF QB to have for the remainder of the season.
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Traders2001
Footballguy
He already was , i think it makes him a middle of the pack QB1 ....Young thows a nice deep ball ...
Boulder Toads
Footballguy
As a Texans fan it pains me to say this, but I added VY simply for the 2 games left against our horrendous secondary / defense ...
boots11234
Footballguy
How does this affect Gage's value? I have to think Moss gets the double coverage thus allowing Gage to get more opportunities. Opinions?
Fantaholic
Footballguy
As a frustrated CJ owner this is sweet music to my ears. In my opinion when it's all said and done the numbers of Britt, Washington, even VY will be marginally affected. CJ is the clear beneficiary here.
This isn't accurate.It's what they try to do, but all in all they either quit doing it or just go through the motion.
KC and VY are two of the worst at faking that handoff. It stinks because if VY were to be running an option the guy turns into Houdini yet he can't sell a handoff to a 2k yard runner. Go figure.
Heimerdinger's skill as an offensive coordinator is his ability to create mismatches and exploit them. He's fabulous at that and he may very well be hiding a poor offensive team.
Fisher has like 1000 years in the NFL where he or his team loves the run. He has had some excellent linemen along with some fans and teammates love. He's really had a wealth of quality linemen. That is how the Titans are built. Young is (was) a running QB.
Fisher (and Parcells and BB and probably Cowher and ol Gibbs and..) is going to tell Moss he has to block first. Yeah yeah I know, but like those others, he just has to say it.
This offseason Fisher stated 10k times how he wanted a balanced offense and when he was pleased with it, the numbers were like 150 rushing yards 150 passing. His version of "balanced" is that of a run early, run often coach.
All this Moss stuff brings me back to a few things Fisher was kind enough to talk about in some offseason press conferences (which you could find at titans site)
Once a team builds it's foundation, then they are looking for play makers to get them over the top. This was why the drafted CJ- the third year in a row they drafted a RB highly. They had Lendale who (despite what some claim here) was decent for a young runner once he was able to start.
Another step was Jared Cook and everyone at the pool was loving his speed and athletic ability as a TE and...Fisher did too but because he believes Cook has the speed to make that one last block to free up CJ. It's NOT the reason everyone here though where he'd be blowing by safeties and manhandling LBs like Gates or somesuch. To block for Fisher's runner.
Britt was the first WR in "forever" that the Titans actually spent a high pick on.
They had their base and added these big play guys.
Moss is soooo likely following that trend too.
The TE has always been a key part of Fisher's offenses and for that matter a big part of many run early, run often offenses. That's not changing. Britt was excellent in the redzone and meh the rest of the field. I can totally envision Moss doing that.
Moss will be used to "break the defense's back." The big play. I don't in anyway see him getting 8 catches in Tennessee. I foresee alot of whining in game threads here until he catches a bomb.
3-80 and 2 TDs seems so much more likely than 8-80 and hopefully a TD.
I don't think this changes anything with CJ. I just don't. No DC is going to think the Titans are suddenly a passing team under Fisher. At some point, for whichever team Moss was playing for, DCs had to deal with the fact that putting 1,2 or 3 guys on him-the guy still catches the ball. Moss is older and still good but, he is nowhere near the threat CJ is to go the distance IMO.
I don't foresee the Titans offense changing. I don't think projecting the stats changes for anyone but Britt and he's out for a good long time anyway. They just got more effective.
A few of us in the Britt thread and the Eagles game thread here discussed how Titans WRs drop balls and flub easy catches way too often. I think Fisher and Co. just solved that problem. Not that they changeup at all, but they handled an issue.
Gage is far down the depth chart. I thought he'd be cut this summer but he worked his way back up some. He's down again.He's been injured so it's hard to gauge(oy..sorry) his spot, but I'd say Nate and Damian are ahead of him and possibly Lavelle.He might not be active some weeks.
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
The Nate Washington that used to play for Pittsburgh?
Or are you merely saying he's 'a more natural underneath guy' than Williams? Because Nate Washington pretty much knows how to run a 9 route, and not much else, unless he did a complete 180 from his time with the Steelers(which I expect is unlikely).
I agree he's a clear winner here, but not because he's going to be turning into some chain-moving, possession guy. He's a clear winner here because he is guaranteed to never, ever see a single double team for the remainder of the year if Moss remains in the lineup.
Clifford
Footballguy
That and I see a vet, regardless of level or knowledge, simply being in a much better position to take advantage of the situation than a rookie.
Gonna throw Tenn Defense into the conversation here. Their offense output will increase and will most likely be able to stay ahead. This positively impacts their defense as the offense will have enough time of possession to let the defense rest. And when Tenn has the lead that is when their defense is at their best.
fantasizing
Footballguy
CJ is the obvious beneficiary provided Moss actually makes an effort on most plays. His history of "taking plays off" renders
him useless in the role of acting like a decoy and drawing double coverage.
This is why when the debate arises of who is better: Moss or TO, I always chose TO. Despite his whining and complaining,
TO puts an effort on every play and wants the ball to make plays.
If Moss jogs down the sideline, then absolutely no defense is going to respect the big pass play and teams will stack
the box again to stop CJ.
It's not like Adrian Peterson exploded in the 4 games Moss was there.
him useless in the role of acting like a decoy and drawing double coverage.
This is why when the debate arises of who is better: Moss or TO, I always chose TO. Despite his whining and complaining,
TO puts an effort on every play and wants the ball to make plays.
If Moss jogs down the sideline, then absolutely no defense is going to respect the big pass play and teams will stack
the box again to stop CJ.
It's not like Adrian Peterson exploded in the 4 games Moss was there.
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@NYJvs DAL
@GB
@NE
3 of those games on the road against some of the best teams in the NFL. That is the most difficult stretch of games any team has this season.
Rogi
Footballguy
I agree with the stacking the box comment. Jets let Cromartie handle Moss, which he did. Moss did get the long TD but he was pushing off and should have been an offensive PI. Of course I didn't complain at the time because it benefited my team.I think the Patriots strategy against Moss was to make it so obvious that he'd be double covered that Randy would give up. They know how to shut him down physically and mentally because they've seen it done to him. Revis wasn't joking when he said Moss shuts down.
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thatguythere
Footballguy
Nope, not buying that. Moss will be doubled now and there will be a receiver running free/mismatched nearly every play with the attention they will have to pay CJ.
Dope
Footballguy
If you want to go for the gold and have a free spot, I think the play here is Damian Williams.
1. His targets have gone up every week 1-3-4-4-9.
2. He's most definitely on 99% of WW's.
3. The most important bit: In Matt Waldman's 2010 Rookie Profile, he has Damian as the #2 overall WR in this class (after Dez). In his description of him, he seems to be describing a PERFECT slot receiver. Who benefits from having Moss? The talented slot guy....Welker and Harvin
Redraft - I'd say he's 50/50 to put up starter type numbers this season.
Dynasty - Maybe he's Welker or Harvin. Complete upside...especially if Moss signs on past this year. Long shot, but the payoff could be a top end WR2.
1. His targets have gone up every week 1-3-4-4-9.
2. He's most definitely on 99% of WW's.
3. The most important bit: In Matt Waldman's 2010 Rookie Profile, he has Damian as the #2 overall WR in this class (after Dez). In his description of him, he seems to be describing a PERFECT slot receiver. Who benefits from having Moss? The talented slot guy....Welker and Harvin
Redraft - I'd say he's 50/50 to put up starter type numbers this season.
Dynasty - Maybe he's Welker or Harvin. Complete upside...especially if Moss signs on past this year. Long shot, but the payoff could be a top end WR2.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Not really. Washington has been nothing more than a deep threat for his entire career.I was trying to figure out who teh "underneath" guy that could benefit for the Titans will be with Moss now in the picture and realized they really didn't have one. Damien Williams and Justin Gage are the closest things to a Welker/Harvin type - but even that's a real stretch.Perhaps a guy like Scaife reaps the most benefit.Clifford said:
BassNBrew
Footballguy
For those giving CJ a slam dunk upgrade, I already showed how ADP production dropped after Moss arrived even after discarding a tough NYJ matchup. Decided to dig deeper and the NE RBs have prospered better with Moss gone.
Games 1-4: 22.7 ppr ppg, 19.9 ppg
Games 6-8: 27.9 ppr ppg, 23.2 ppg
The yardage for the NE RBs has been consistant but shifted from rushing to rec. TDs and recpts are up.
This same trend would have held true for Minn RBs save the great recv performance for them on a day where Moss did nothing.
Games 1-4: 22.7 ppr ppg, 19.9 ppg
Games 6-8: 27.9 ppr ppg, 23.2 ppg
The yardage for the NE RBs has been consistant but shifted from rushing to rec. TDs and recpts are up.
This same trend would have held true for Minn RBs save the great recv performance for them on a day where Moss did nothing.