Took over Commish duties (1 Viewer)

[OU#1]

So I took over commish duties because the old commish' has a lot on his plate. He asked me to take it over which I wanted to do anyways. So last week a handful of owners come in and ask if we can go ahead and pick the draft seeding so they can start a draft strategy (12 team redraft). I had no issues with this (our draft is Aug 26th) so I went for it.

So I figured before we draw out of a hat I better let everybody know how we were going to structure the draft. Last season the old commish' had a very weird draft order: He did rounds 1/2 normally (1-12, 12-1), but starting rounds 3/4 he randomly picked the numbers (example 3:1 was team 5, 3:2 was team 7, 4:11 was team 7, 4:12 was team 5, etc). Then in rounds 5/6 he randomly picked the numbers again (so the draft order changed every odd round and the even rounds were mirror images of the previous odd round). I hope I explained that so everybody understands.

So in summary the draft was totally random. According to him it made the draft fair for everybody because even if you drafted 1:12/2:1 then you had a good shot of getting a better draft position in rounds 3/4, 5/6, 7/8, etc.

A few of the owners complained about this draft structure and said the randomness could really put some teams at a disadvantage if they are constantly getting bad pics. I agreed with them and decided to change it to the serpentine standard.

The old commish' was on leave during all of this and when he came back yesterday he was pretty irritated about it. He feels like I am changing his whole league (I'm not really-just trying to make it fair for everybody).

As I understand it the serpentine draft doesn't leave anybody at any advantage since the even rounds are mirrored. I don't see how you can make it any more fair, and I don't see how his system is better than using the serpentine.

So I guess my question is what do you guys think about this "random draft"? Have any of you used it before, or something similiar? Are there any other draft structures that have been used that are more "fair" than the standard serpentine? Assuming the even rounds are mirrors of the odd rounds-Does the draft order really matter that much after rounds 1/2?

 

[Pittsburgh United]

The old commish' was on leave during all of this and when he came back yesterday he was pretty irritated about it. He feels like I am changing his whole league (I'm not really-just trying to make it fair for everybody).

So he wants to still set the rules for the league while accepting none of the responsibilities of being a commissioner?

 

[by_the_sea_wannabe]

random is worse than normal serp, but 3rr is the way to go.

 

[Keith Lewis]

Tell that old commish to suck an egg.

 

[JohnnyU]

The random draft thingy is just plain stupid. Bad luck can ruin teams. As far as what you did, what you should have done is take a league vote to change the draft structure, not implement it on your own, or because a few complained. Changes like these should follow the democratic process.

 

[PsychoMan]

random is worse than normal serp, but 3rr is the way to go.

you mean banzai or 3rr ??? in the FBG article, banzai was basically stated as the way to go because it's "most fair"

 

[turnit643]

Have used a random pull for every other round before and some owners liked it, some didn't, pretty much the way it is with any format. As for fairness, I think there are some good threads/articles here at FBG's regarding the 3RR/3RS that you should search for and consider as an option. Oh, and about the old commish crying about how you are handling the league, he gave you the reigns, you run the show now and you must do what you think is best for the league, period.

 

[by_the_sea_wannabe]

random is worse than normal serp, but 3rr is the way to go.

you mean banzai or 3rr ??? in the FBG article, banzai was basically stated as the way to go because it's "most fair"

When "bonzai" was first explained to me a couple of years ago, the guy called it 3rr, but certainly

 

[OU#1]

Forgot to add:

When we drew for the draft order out of a hat I drew pick #1 and the old commish drew pick #12.

75% of the owners were in attendance so it wasn't staged either...

I think this might be part of the reason he's irritated.

I'll look into 3RR and 3RS, thanks!

 

[Shrek]

There's a reason that serpentine is the preferred choice of most leagues. It's pretty fair and not very complicated.

As a commissioner of several leagues over the years, I'll offer this advice. Unless your friend specifically told you, "I don't want you to change anything about the league", tell him to zip it or take the commissioner duties back over from you.

The two rules I have always gone by as a commish is be fair, and be firm. If you think your new draft strategy is more fair, explain it to the league. Many leagues have a process where owners can vote on policy changes either by majority vote or by a Rules Committee. Either way, once the policy is set, don't waver just because one person complains. Trust me, if you do start wavering on things like this no one in the league will have confidence in your abilities to be commissioner.

FWIW I have been in a league where they re-picked draft order every round. It sucked.

 

[thebestupsman]

random is worse than normal serp, but 3rr is the way to go.

This is the way to do it.

 

[North]

Have used a random pull for every other round before and some owners liked it, some didn't, pretty much the way it is with any format. As for fairness, I think there are some good threads/articles here at FBG's regarding the 3RR/3RS that you should search for and consider as an option. Oh, and about the old commish crying about how you are handling the league, he gave you the reigns, you run the show now and you must do what you think is best for the league, period.

We have been "redrafting" #'s for every odd round for 20 years and it has worked for us. It does give players who draft at the bottom a chance to get a high pick in the 3rd and 5th because no matter what you say, having the last pick of the 1st and first pick in the 2nd and then waiting until the last pick of the 3rd does NOT = those who pick 1st or 2nd in the first and 3rd.I honestly don't think we will ever go to a traditional format.I do think that when making changes to an entire league you should have voted and had a consensus before just changing things.

 

[JohnnyU]

Forgot to add:When we drew for the draft order out of a hat I drew pick #1 and the old commish drew pick #12.75% of the owners were in attendance so it wasn't staged either...I think this might be part of the reason he's irritated.I'll look into 3RR and 3RS, thanks!

Again, why didn't you take a league vote on the draft structure?

 

[OU#1]

Again, why didn't you take a league vote on the draft structure?

We are about to have an owners meeting to discuss changes to the league, etc, and to vote on things. The draft type may change.I felt like I needed to make that decision before we drew the draft order so nobody thought I was making a biased decision based upon our draft positioning after the fact...3RR looks interesting. I will propose it at the lunch owners meeting.

 

[Phantom Knight]

The old commish' was on leave during all of this and when he came back yesterday he was pretty irritated about it. He feels like I am changing his whole league (I'm not really-just trying to make it fair for everybody).

So he wants to still set the rules for the league while accepting none of the responsibilities of being a commissioner?

I read an article somewhere (sigh . . no i cannot remember where) discussing just this topic. The author had a formula he used to rank the different methods. He concluded that the most fair was some flavor of the serpentine, but not the straight serpentine. Perhaps the "3rd round reversal serpentine" which is supported by MFL and perhaps other sites as well.

 

[Jayrod]

I'm in a league that wanted to do auction, but just couldn't get the whole league together at one time.

So we did a draft position auction.

Every team was given a $1000 to spend on each round with a minimum of $10 per round (ours was 30 rounds for an IDP dynasty startup).

Basically, whoever bid the most for round x, got the first pick, 2nd most got #2, etc.

Ties in the first round (didn't happen) would have been decided by chance (i.e. coinflip)

Subsequent round ties were the reverse order of the prior round.

It was a really fun way to determine draft order and took into account draft strategies (what rounds to pick early in) and different auction theories. We just had everyone e-mail the commish their round by round auction after he had submitted his bids to one of the other league-members. He calculated out the draft picks and no one could complain because everyone had the same chances at each pick. I loved it. One guy even spent his entire discretionary amount on the first pick.

 

[MPhilly03]

I'm in a league that wanted to do auction, but just couldn't get the whole league together at one time.

So we did a draft position auction.

Every team was given a $1000 to spend on each round with a minimum of $10 per round (ours was 30 rounds for an IDP dynasty startup).

Basically, whoever bid the most for round x, got the first pick, 2nd most got #2, etc.

By this do you mean that each team got $1000 to spend on the entire draft and there was a $10 minimum per round? Otherwise it appears that everyone gets $1000 per round which means everyone would try and put the $1000 each round? I wanted to clarify because this seems like a very interesting idea.

 

[yaheRRdme]

If you wanted to make a change to the draft, why not just have the members vote on it, there is plenty of time to have a vote.

In the preseason all you need more than 1/2 the owners to vote to make the change.

 

[TinHat]

1:12

12:1

12:1

1:12

repeat

It's the only way to go

I call it the "broken serpentine"

 

[OddibeMcD]

I'm in a league that wanted to do auction, but just couldn't get the whole league together at one time.

So we did a draft position auction.

Every team was given a $1000 to spend on each round with a minimum of $10 per round (ours was 30 rounds for an IDP dynasty startup).

Basically, whoever bid the most for round x, got the first pick, 2nd most got #2, etc.

By this do you mean that each team got $1000 to spend on the entire draft and there was a $10 minimum per round? Otherwise it appears that everyone gets $1000 per round which means everyone would try and put the $1000 each round? I wanted to clarify because this seems like a very interesting idea.

I think he means that everyone got 1000 for each of the 30 rounds, so everyone had 30000. However, each person had to spend 10 bucks a round so there was 300 dollars fixed. This means that 29700 was free to be spent on the discretion of a player. So one guy bid 29710 on the first pick and then 10 dollars in each of the next 29 rounds. Thus, the guy got the first pick in the draft and the last in every other round. What I am curious is if they blind bid and then allocated the pics or if they bid on each pick as it came up, but once you picked in the round you could not bid again.

 

[mrspree15]

I'm in a league that wanted to do auction, but just couldn't get the whole league together at one time.

So we did a draft position auction.

Every team was given a $1000 to spend on each round with a minimum of $10 per round (ours was 30 rounds for an IDP dynasty startup).

Basically, whoever bid the most for round x, got the first pick, 2nd most got #2, etc.

By this do you mean that each team got $1000 to spend on the entire draft and there was a $10 minimum per round? Otherwise it appears that everyone gets $1000 per round which means everyone would try and put the $1000 each round? I wanted to clarify because this seems like a very interesting idea.

Do you have the dollar values for your draft spots? I'm interested in seeing this and how it worked out. You can PM me, if you dont want to post it on the board, thanks

 

[gianmarco]

I'd use your commish status and kick the old commish out for complaining. Tell him it's a new era. And to the rest of the league, warn all of them too.....zip it or you're out too. Stand up and take control. Be a man. Oh, and let us know how all that goes.

 

[Bad_Mo]

Pound sand old commish.

If he was that concerned, he should have AT LEAST asked you to check with him before making any changes to the draft order, scoring, etc.

Let him get back to his full plate and bounce his ###.

 

[OU#1]

1:1212:112:11:12repeatIt's the only way to goI call it the "broken serpentine"

Oddly enougy after looking into 3RR and not understanding why they didn't swap it up every other round we decided to go with the above mentioned system.It seems fair for everybody to do it this way since whatever "advantage" the 1st pick has in rounds 1/2 the 12th pick gets in rounds 3/4.IMHO if every even round is a mirror image of the previous odd round then nobody is at any advantage. I'm sure there's a bunch of discussion on this subject but I'm just glad we agreed on something and nobody left the owners meeting pissed off.Lastly, will cbssportsline allow me to use a custom draft order like this in an online draft? We are planning to do the draft in person but a couple of the guys might not be able to make it so I was going to allow them to draft online (and I was going to put the picks into the computer as they came off the board).Lesson learned-don't change anything without voting on it. Even in a fun league with little money invested people will complain. Live and learn.Thanks for your replies they were very helpful in resolving this.

 

[Jayrod]

I'm in a league that wanted to do auction, but just couldn't get the whole league together at one time.

So we did a draft position auction.

Every team was given a $1000 to spend on each round with a minimum of $10 per round (ours was 30 rounds for an IDP dynasty startup).

Basically, whoever bid the most for round x, got the first pick, 2nd most got #2, etc.

By this do you mean that each team got $1000 to spend on the entire draft and there was a $10 minimum per round? Otherwise it appears that everyone gets $1000 per round which means everyone would try and put the $1000 each round? I wanted to clarify because this seems like a very interesting idea.

There was only $1,000 TOTAL to spend. Divided up among 30 rounds with a $10 minimum. The one dude put up $710 on the first round and only $10 on each of the rest.

 

[Jayrod]

I'm in a league that wanted to do auction, but just couldn't get the whole league together at one time.

So we did a draft position auction.

Every team was given a $1000 to spend on each round with a minimum of $10 per round (ours was 30 rounds for an IDP dynasty startup).

Basically, whoever bid the most for round x, got the first pick, 2nd most got #2, etc.

By this do you mean that each team got $1000 to spend on the entire draft and there was a $10 minimum per round? Otherwise it appears that everyone gets $1000 per round which means everyone would try and put the $1000 each round? I wanted to clarify because this seems like a very interesting idea.

Do you have the dollar values for your draft spots? I'm interested in seeing this and how it worked out. You can PM me, if you dont want to post it on the board, thanks

Here's how my draft shaped up....if you want my spreadsheet analysis of everyone's auctions and how it turned out, PM me an e-mail address.

$$	  pick 16	 1.09 236	 2.01 141	 3.01 81	 4.04 71	 5.04 61	 6.04 56	 7.03 36	 8.07 36	 9.06 26	 10.07 21	 11.06 16	 12.06 16	 13.05 11	 14.06 11	 15.07 11	 16.06 11	 17.06 11	 18.06 11	 19.06 11	 20.04 11	 21.04 11	 22.03 11	 23.04 11	 24.03 11	 25.02 11	 26.01 11	 27.01 11	 28.01 11	 29.01 11	 30.02

 

[Jayrod]

I'm in a league that wanted to do auction, but just couldn't get the whole league together at one time.

So we did a draft position auction.

Every team was given a $1000 to spend on each round with a minimum of $10 per round (ours was 30 rounds for an IDP dynasty startup).

Basically, whoever bid the most for round x, got the first pick, 2nd most got #2, etc.

By this do you mean that each team got $1000 to spend on the entire draft and there was a $10 minimum per round? Otherwise it appears that everyone gets $1000 per round which means everyone would try and put the $1000 each round? I wanted to clarify because this seems like a very interesting idea.

I think he means that everyone got 1000 for each of the 30 rounds, so everyone had 30000. However, each person had to spend 10 bucks a round so there was 300 dollars fixed. This means that 29700 was free to be spent on the discretion of a player. So one guy bid 29710 on the first pick and then 10 dollars in each of the next 29 rounds. Thus, the guy got the first pick in the draft and the last in every other round. What I am curious is if they blind bid and then allocated the pics or if they bid on each pick as it came up, but once you picked in the round you could not bid again.

No, just $1000 total.And it was blind bid. You had to submit your 30-round bid in its entirety (so it wouldn't take very long to do, mostly).

 

[RudeDog]

1:12

12:1

12:1

1:12

repeat

It's the only way to go

I call it the "broken serpentine"

Oddly enougy after looking into 3RR and not understanding why they didn't swap it up every other round we decided to go with the above mentioned system.It seems fair for everybody to do it this way since whatever "advantage" the 1st pick has in rounds 1/2 the 12th pick gets in rounds 3/4.

IMHO if every even round is a mirror image of the previous odd round then nobody is at any advantage. I'm sure there's a bunch of discussion on this subject but I'm just glad we agreed on something and nobody left the owners meeting pissed off.

Lastly, will cbssportsline allow me to use a custom draft order like this in an online draft? We are planning to do the draft in person but a couple of the guys might not be able to make it so I was going to allow them to draft online (and I was going to put the picks into the computer as they came off the board).

Lesson learned-don't change anything without voting on it. Even in a fun league with little money invested people will complain. Live and learn.

Thanks for your replies they were very helpful in resolving this.

Yes, you can customize draft order on CBS Sportsline.

 

[ookook]

Random every even round works better as long as it is done without replacement.

So in a 12 team league, do it for the first 12 rounds and no team can ever get the same position again. In ohter words, once you draft in the 1st (3rd, 7th, whatever) you cannot again.

 

[RC94]

I'm in a league that wanted to do auction, but just couldn't get the whole league together at one time.

So we did a draft position auction.

Every team was given a $1000 to spend on each round with a minimum of $10 per round (ours was 30 rounds for an IDP dynasty startup).

Basically, whoever bid the most for round x, got the first pick, 2nd most got #2, etc.

By this do you mean that each team got $1000 to spend on the entire draft and there was a $10 minimum per round? Otherwise it appears that everyone gets $1000 per round which means everyone would try and put the $1000 each round? I wanted to clarify because this seems like a very interesting idea.

There was only $1,000 TOTAL to spend. Divided up among 30 rounds with a $10 minimum. The one dude put up $710 on the first round and only $10 on each of the rest.

This is a very interesting idea.

 

[hotboyz]

Have used a random pull for every other round before and some owners liked it, some didn't, pretty much the way it is with any format. As for fairness, I think there are some good threads/articles here at FBG's regarding the 3RR/3RS that you should search for and consider as an option. Oh, and about the old commish crying about how you are handling the league, he gave you the reigns, you run the show now and you must do what you think is best for the league, period.

We have been "redrafting" #'s for every odd round for 20 years and it has worked for us. It does give players who draft at the bottom a chance to get a high pick in the 3rd and 5th because no matter what you say, having the last pick of the 1st and first pick in the 2nd and then waiting until the last pick of the 3rd does NOT = those who pick 1st or 2nd in the first and 3rd.I honestly don't think we will ever go to a traditional format.I do think that when making changes to an entire league you should have voted and had a consensus before just changing things.

I'm with you North we've been doing random every odd round for the last 10 yrs. and we love it what we do is use a draft Ramdomizer and we determine the draft order a month before the draft

 

[North]

Have used a random pull for every other round before and some owners liked it, some didn't, pretty much the way it is with any format. As for fairness, I think there are some good threads/articles here at FBG's regarding the 3RR/3RS that you should search for and consider as an option. Oh, and about the old commish crying about how you are handling the league, he gave you the reigns, you run the show now and you must do what you think is best for the league, period.

We have been "redrafting" #'s for every odd round for 20 years and it has worked for us. It does give players who draft at the bottom a chance to get a high pick in the 3rd and 5th because no matter what you say, having the last pick of the 1st and first pick in the 2nd and then waiting until the last pick of the 3rd does NOT = those who pick 1st or 2nd in the first and 3rd.I honestly don't think we will ever go to a traditional format.I do think that when making changes to an entire league you should have voted and had a consensus before just changing things.

I'm with you North we've been doing random every odd round for the last 10 yrs. and we love it what we do is use a draft Ramdomizer and we determine the draft order a month before the draft

Good to hear there are others who think like us. We also pick #'s a month prior t the draft in order to give owners a chance to work out trades and strategize.Hotboyz, we seem to have a lot in common. Same birthday, city, league rules, etc. Are you sure you're not me in disguise?

 

[Challenge Everything]

Can I have a link to this 3rr or Banzai thing? I wrote an article for FBG's about 4-5 years ago using their draft pick calculator explaining 1:12/2:1... than reverse serpentine it and I am wondering if this Banzai piggybacked from my article or what. Curious to see what numbers were brought up compared to mine for my article.

 

[Godsbrother]

My league has been around for 13 years and the guys don't like change. It would be darn near impossible to get these owners to switch from serpentine to 3RR or auction.

I understand that it is not perfect but we have had guys win from every draft position. It is fair enough for me...

 

[Flying V]

I'm in a league that does lottery every round. I used to lobby to change it every year. Then, 3 years ago, I drafted 12, 12, 10, and 12 in the first 4 rounds...and won the trophy. Now they tell me to just shut the hell up.

In another 12 team league, we do a lottery with dominos for the first round. Then the guys who picked 1-6 get on one side of the table and 7-12 on the other. The 1-6 guys then pick from the 7-12 dominos and the 7-12 guys pick from the 1-6 dominos. After each round, they just keep passing the dominos back across the table. The only sure thing is that if you got an early pick one round, you'll get a late pick the next (and vice versa). We call it a serpentine lottery. In 6 years, nobody has suggested changing it.