Top CBs in the NFL (1 Viewer)

[pgreenfan]

Funny... people rank 10 cornerbacks play, but have you actually watched them?Given that you can barely see them on TV and how they all play for different teams, you must be some kind of fan.

Some of the staff members do game summaries and thus may watch a game more closely or more than once.

I don't see every game each week but will often watch 6-7 with particular attention to the defensive side of the ball. While it's not coaches game tape, things like recovery speed, ball skills, footwork, hands, and most frequent type of coverage played (press vs zone) among others can be gleaned from the telecast and some isolated replays.Granted, I don't get to see many Texan or Niner games because of regional issues. So, some of the evaluation process is based on other scouting reports that you trust, reaction from defensive coordinators and opposing players (sometimes taken with a grain of salt), and an educated read of gamebooks and statlines.So I guess you could say some of us are different kinds of fans.

So uhm from your seat who are your top 10?

 

[Marc Levin]

Funny... people rank 10 cornerbacks play, but have you actually watched them?Given that you can barely see them on TV and how they all play for different teams, you must be some kind of fan.

Some of the staff members do game summaries and thus may watch a game more closely or more than once.

Exactly.And we also know who is lined up where and some of us actually COUNT targets. If a WR is covered by a CB and gets almost no targets . . . Champ Bailey is the best example - whoever he is lined up against gets less than 3 or 4 targets a game and almost no catches - that's a shut down corner.Also, a lot of the people in THIS thread play in IDP leagues, so, their knowledge and exposure to news about CBs is much much better than the average TV watching fan.

 

[Your Mom]

I don't know if Charles Tillman is. I still have nightmares of Steve Smith publicly depantsing him in last year's playoffs. Tillman certainly isn't afraid to get physical and is a damned good tackler. Then again, if he was breaking up the passes, he wouldn't have to tackle. He did own Plaxico Burress a few weeks ago though.I'm a huge fan of Rashean Mathis. I feel he's very underrated, probably because Jacksonville isn't a nationally popular team.

Tillman is close to top 10. Tillman can play against the bigger WRs as good as anyone. He is physical and a great tackler. He isn't so good against the smaller/quicker guys.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Funny... people rank 10 cornerbacks play, but have you actually watched them?

Given that you can barely see them on TV and how they all play for different teams, you must be some kind of fan.

Some of the staff members do game summaries and thus may watch a game more closely or more than once.

I don't see every game each week but will often watch 6-7 with particular attention to the defensive side of the ball. While it's not coaches game tape, things like recovery speed, ball skills, footwork, hands, and most frequent type of coverage played (press vs zone) among others can be gleaned from the telecast and some isolated replays.

Granted, I don't get to see many Texan or Niner games because of regional issues. So, some of the evaluation process is based on other scouting reports that you trust, reaction from defensive coordinators and opposing players (sometimes taken with a grain of salt), and an educated read of gamebooks and statlines.

So I guess you could say some of us are different kinds of fans.

So uhm from your seat who are your top 10?

I piled on some thoughts last night in a reply to Aaron's list, which I thought was pretty good.Corner by nature is a very volatile position and confidence plays a huge role so some of these guys, while down a bit right now, still deserve to be in the discussion. I'm a tier rather than raw number rank kind of guy and here's how I see them. Just one guy's opinion.

Veterans at the top of their game

Champ Bailey

Leigh Bodden -- Very good and very underrated. Injuries have kept him from getting the love he deserves.

Rashean Mathis

Patrick Surtain

Terence Newman

Shawn Springs

Ronde Barber -- All he does is make plays.

Solid veterans (with issues)

Chris McAllister -- Gets beat deep entirely too often but still a solid press corner.

Nick Harper -- Not the best man corner but has really picked up his play in the zone Tampa-2 scheme. Having a great year.

Charles Tillman -- Tillman was at fault on maybe one of the Steve Smith plays. He wouldn't fit in an aggressive defense that required a lot of press coverage, but he's an excellent zone guy with tremendous ball instincts.

Al Harris -- Awesome in 2005, meh in 2006.

Antoine Winfield -- Can beat him deep, but I'd take his steady, overall play over a Dunta Robinson or DeAngelo Hall

Walt Harris -- Not as good as he's played this year but still pretty good.

Great skill sets but questionable play in 2006

Nate Clements -- Like Jekyll and Hyde this year in coverage and his tackling has been atrocious.

Chris Gamble -- See Clements, Nate.

Ken Lucas -- See....sorry, you get the point.

Up and Comers

Nmamdi Asamougha -- If this guy could catch, he'd be leading the league in picks. Of course, then he'd probably be a WR.

Pacman Jones -- He may be a butthead, but he's proving he can play with the best.

Overrated

Dunta Robinson -- Potential is there but he's too inconsistent.

Asante Samuel -- I'm with Bloom. Belichick gets the best out of nothing and having Rexy throw you a few ducks on primetime TV may get him bucks. See also: Brian Russell.

Deshea Townsend/Lito Sheppard -- Either could belong in the first category too but I can't shake the impression that they are average players made better by an aggressive front seven.

Quentin Jammer -- meh.

DeAngelo Hall -- Too much gamble. Much more likely to give up a big play than make one.

Shawntae Spencer -- Go back and forth on this guy, still too inconsistent for my liking.

Deltha O'Neal -- He's not as bad as the Broncos thought he was, but last year was a fluke.

Rookies with potential

Johnathan Joseph -- If he had any kind of hands at all he'd be getting just as much talk as...

Richard Marshall -- Tough man-to-man proving to be really physical in run support.

Antonio Cromartie/Tye Hill -- Two totally different players who could grow into very good man cover guys.

 

[Marc Levin]

Jene = answer man

 

[Slingblade]

Pacman Jones is an easy top 5, maybe top 3. Baller all the way.AsanteChampPacmanMathisDunta

Put Champ at 1, drop Dunta for Newman, and Im in. PacMan's character arguably outshines his play, but hes been OUTSTANDING this year.

Never thought I'd say this, but I agree on PacMan. He has been an unbelievable player, not just a corner. His presence on D and ST has made an enormous difference.

Hes not quite Antrell Rolle mind you, but he is playing well because hes a better fit for the Titans defensive scheme

Antrell Rolle Good one.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

I know all will laugh, but I really think Shaun Springs should be about #5-10 on this list.

The difference in the entire Skins D with him is unbelievable. Suddenly Rogers looks better cause he doesn't have to cover the #1.

Safeties almost never cheat to help him out. He completely shut down TO every game he was on him for the last 3 years. In fact, I was trying to think of a guy that took it to Springs over the past 3 years, and I can only remember him having 1 bad game sometime last year....might have been Galloway that had a game on him.

Yeah, he's old. But he's still pretty damn good.

 

[ProdigyofParcells]

Football Outsiders have numbers on WR1 numbers and defenses. If you go by that measure than the top ten would look like this:

1. Ty Law

2. Champ Bailey

3. Ken Lucas

4. Fabian Washington

5. Daven Holly

6. Dre Bly

7. Asante Samuel

8. Tory James

9. Nate Clements

10. Walt Harris

 

[Jene Bramel]

Football Outsiders have numbers on WR1 numbers and defenses. If you go by that measure than the top ten would look like this:

1. Ty Law

2. Champ Bailey

3. Ken Lucas

4. Fabian Washington

5. Daven Holly

6. Dre Bly

7. Asante Samuel

8. Tory James

9. Nate Clements

10. Walt Harris

Lucas, Bly, and James have not played to top ten CB level this season.I don't know what metrics they use to make these determinations, but I think it's extremely difficult to use statistical measures to evaluate the worth of defensive players. Small sample sizes are a huge issue. And unless you know the defensive call on any particular play, it can be very difficult to glean who was responsible for a given coverage on some plays.

I've seen nearly every game James has played this season. He's been very inconsistent in breaking on the ball, has been beaten deep badly whether it be deep zone coverage or man, and has been an atrocious tackler. He should be demoted to the nickel role in favor of Johnathan Joseph. Ken Lucas' play has been so concerning to the coaches that he's about to find himself on the bench (without the hip injury excuse they've been using as a crutch so far) in favor of Richard Marshall.

 

[BoltBacker]

Funny... people rank 10 cornerbacks play, but have you actually watched them?

Given that you can barely see them on TV and how they all play for different teams, you must be some kind of fan.

Some of the staff members do game summaries and thus may watch a game more closely or more than once.

I don't see every game each week but will often watch 6-7 with particular attention to the defensive side of the ball. While it's not coaches game tape, things like recovery speed, ball skills, footwork, hands, and most frequent type of coverage played (press vs zone) among others can be gleaned from the telecast and some isolated replays.

Granted, I don't get to see many Texan or Niner games because of regional issues. So, some of the evaluation process is based on other scouting reports that you trust, reaction from defensive coordinators and opposing players (sometimes taken with a grain of salt), and an educated read of gamebooks and statlines.

So I guess you could say some of us are different kinds of fans.

So uhm from your seat who are your top 10?

I piled on some thoughts last night in a reply to Aaron's list, which I thought was pretty good.Corner by nature is a very volatile position and confidence plays a huge role so some of these guys, while down a bit right now, still deserve to be in the discussion. I'm a tier rather than raw number rank kind of guy and here's how I see them. Just one guy's opinion.

Veterans at the top of their game

Champ Bailey

Leigh Bodden -- Very good and very underrated. Injuries have kept him from getting the love he deserves.

Rashean Mathis

Patrick Surtain

Terence Newman

Shawn Springs

Ronde Barber -- All he does is make plays.

Solid veterans (with issues)

Chris McAllister -- Gets beat deep entirely too often but still a solid press corner.

Nick Harper -- Not the best man corner but has really picked up his play in the zone Tampa-2 scheme. Having a great year.

Charles Tillman -- Tillman was at fault on maybe one of the Steve Smith plays. He wouldn't fit in an aggressive defense that required a lot of press coverage, but he's an excellent zone guy with tremendous ball instincts.

Al Harris -- Awesome in 2005, meh in 2006.

Antoine Winfield -- Can beat him deep, but I'd take his steady, overall play over a Dunta Robinson or DeAngelo Hall

Walt Harris -- Not as good as he's played this year but still pretty good.

Great skill sets but questionable play in 2006

Nate Clements -- Like Jekyll and Hyde this year in coverage and his tackling has been atrocious.

Chris Gamble -- See Clements, Nate.

Ken Lucas -- See....sorry, you get the point.

Up and Comers

Nmamdi Asamougha -- If this guy could catch, he'd be leading the league in picks. Of course, then he'd probably be a WR.

Pacman Jones -- He may be a butthead, but he's proving he can play with the best.

Overrated

Dunta Robinson -- Potential is there but he's too inconsistent.

Asante Samuel -- I'm with Bloom. Belichick gets the best out of nothing and having Rexy throw you a few ducks on primetime TV may get him bucks. See also: Brian Russell.

Deshea Townsend/Lito Sheppard -- Either could belong in the first category too but I can't shake the impression that they are average players made better by an aggressive front seven.

Quentin Jammer -- meh.

DeAngelo Hall -- Too much gamble. Much more likely to give up a big play than make one.

Shawntae Spencer -- Go back and forth on this guy, still too inconsistent for my liking.

Deltha O'Neal -- He's not as bad as the Broncos thought he was, but last year was a fluke.

Rookies with potential

Johnathan Joseph -- If he had any kind of hands at all he'd be getting just as much talk as...

Richard Marshall -- Tough man-to-man proving to be really physical in run support.

Antonio Cromartie/Tye Hill -- Two totally different players who could grow into very good man cover guys.

There aren't many staff members I enjoy reading as much as Mr. Bramel. He's a big reason the IDP forum is as good as the shark pool used to be. Keep up the good work and hope you are with FBG for a long, long time.I think you may be giving Springs too much of a pass for having an injury this season and underselling Walt Harris based on his play this season but good analysis down the line.

Since this is a CB thread I don't think I'd be out of line asking your assessment of the PIT CB situation across from Townsend. I really thought the Taylor demotion was just a message from Cowher after the DEN debacle and he'd be back in the starting lineup by now, but now I'm not so sure. How do Townsend/Taylor/McFadden shake out for the rest of this season and next year in your opinion? I know you follow that division pretty closely.

 

[Jene Bramel]

I think you may be giving Springs too much of a pass for having an injury this season and underselling Walt Harris based on his play this season but good analysis down the line.Since this is a CB thread I don't think I'd be out of line asking your assessment of the PIT CB situation across from Townsend. I really thought the Taylor demotion was just a message from Cowher after the DEN debacle and he'd be back in the starting lineup by now, but now I'm not so sure. How do Townsend/Taylor/McFadden shake out for the rest of this season and next year in your opinion? I know you follow that division pretty closely.

Appreciate the nice words BB. You may be right about Springs and Harris. Corner play is very subjective and one week's (year's) stud is next season's burnt toast. I don't think there's much question that Springs has solidified the pass defense since his return. He's not good enough to play Steve Smith consistently anymore, but he was a big part of the zone coverages they used to contain him last week.I was a little surprised that the Steelers threw that kind of money at Taylor in the offseason. I thought he played pretty well last year -- big, physical corner who'd support the run in the AFC North is key but he was (and still is) pretty raw. Didn't play football until junior year at a small school and didn't play any corner until his senior season. His ball skills have always lagged behind his athleticism. It appeared Pittsburgh didn't want him having a big season this year and then get stuck not being able to lock him up. They probably weren't sure McFadden would be ready to reliably play against the Chad Johnsons, Braylon Edwards, etc yet either.Both Townsend and McFadden are good all around corners. Townsend's a little short and struggles against bigger receivers at times and he's not as physical as the other two against the run. McFadden's still growing a little too. But those guys should be three pretty good corners for the next couple seasons.The Steeler homers may know better than I what things will look like in 2007. Taylor and McFadden are the two physical guys, but Townsend probably has the best cover skills and he's the number one guy. I think Taylor's probably the guy, but McFadden may play well enough down the stretch to make it a welcome tough decision next offseason.

 

[titanT]

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/footb..._stats#comments

Interesting statistical analysis for CBs

Notice Pacman At #1 and #7 yards per play

Ty Law's #'s are horrible