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Top Linebackers (Playoffs) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Slim25
- Start date
James Harrison, and yes, he should be at the top of everyone's list.I also like D'Qwell Jackson. With Dorsey as the QB I foresee that defense being on the field for a long, long time.
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Buffaloes
Footballguy
I agree. I would replace Briggs and Vilma with Harrison and D'Qwell Jackson.My list would look like this:1.) Willis2.) Harrison3.) Beason4.) Ruud5.) Jackson
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Rozelle
Moderator
Lord Fantasy
Footballguy
I worry about Vilma in Week 16. He has the Lions and may never see the field.
Jayrod
Footballguy
I didn't start him this week....6 assists vs. 5 solos? That's bizarre. I've seen assists > solos before, but never that many (usually more like 2-1 or 3-2). My league rewards assists well (2.0 vs. 2.5 for a solo)But Cooper didn't disappoint and I never sit Beason. I love my LB's for the playoffs. 
johnnyboy8102
Footballguy
It all depends on the statistician. Some games when 2 players are in on the tackle the scorer will do this: (R. Lewis, B.Scott). The comma will give the solo to Lewis and the assist to Scott. However, sometimes the scorer will do this: (R.Lewis; B.Scott). The semicolon gives assists to both. Generally when the game is scored like that is when you end up getting lopsided assist tackle games. For example, the week 13 bengals/ravens game was scored like that. Take a look:Jayrod said:I didn't start him this week....6 assists vs. 5 solos? That's bizarre. I've seen assists > solos before, but never that many (usually more like 2-1 or 3-2). My league rewards assists well (2.0 vs. 2.5 for a solo)But Cooper didn't disappoint and I never sit Beason. I love my LB's for the playoffs.
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/gamecenter/l...0081130_BAL@CIN
Hence, Jeanty had 6-7, B.Johnson 5-9, D.Jones 3-5, etc.
Tedy Brushci usually gets more assists then solos. In fact, he has 38 solo, 37 assists this season for 75 total tackles.
The Dolphins used to be notorious for this too. I remember Zach Thomas a few years back having a 2 solo, 14 assist game.
Also, Junior Seau in 06 had a 2 solo 11 assist game.
houndirish
Footballguy
Maybe I'm missing something but how can there be two players listed on a tackle and one given credit for the solo stop? Doesn't a solo tackle, by definition, require that nobody else assisted?
johnnyboy8102
Footballguy
I have been watching games w/ the computer play-by-play on for about 8-9 years now and that's how they do it. If they use the comma, they give the solo to the 1st guy listed because he was the 1st one to hit the ball carrier. Sometimes, the statistician will just give 2 assists (that's when the semicolon is used). Normally, a statistician will do it only one way or the other the whole game but I have also seen games where they do both depending on whether one player gets to the ball carrier 1st or if both get there at the same time. There aren't any official guidelines to awarding the tackles so it is really up to the discretion of the statistician. That's why you get some games with almost no assist tackles and then others where there are many more assists then solos. I had Mike Peterson as an IDP for a few years and the Jags were always very stingy with awarding assists. Same thing with the Rams historically. While, the Dolphins, Pats, Jets, and Steelers seem to me much more lenient. In fact, in '06 I remember Zach Thomas had 62 assists whille the Raven's top 3 tacklers (Lewis, Scott, Adalius Thomas) had just 67 between them. That same season Channing Crowder had 43 assists while Lewis and Scott had 48 together.Maybe I'm missing something but how can there be two players listed on a tackle and one given credit for the solo stop? Doesn't a solo tackle, by definition, require that nobody else assisted?
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
It's admittedly a fine line, but the NFL's Guideline for Defensive Statistics allow for a solo and assisted tackle if the first defender would likely have completed the tackle without assistance -- solo, but a second defender materially shortened the duration of the play (i.e. prevented further forward progress, etc) -- assist. Materially shortening the duration of the play does not include things like piling on at the end of a play. I'm not necessarily defending the nature of the unofficial defensive statistics, but the speed and gang-tackling nature of defensive football will always be difficult to score uniformly. Certainly, the league seems interested in improving the uniformity. I think those in charge of the stat crews would admit that achieving uniformity will always be a work in progress.Here's an article I wrote summarizing the guidelines last summer. Aaron Rudnicki has been publishing differences in unofficial defensive stats in most summers. There's also a podcast with Chris Hoeltge from this preseason that addresses the issue in detail.Maybe I'm missing something but how can there be two players listed on a tackle and one given credit for the solo stop? Doesn't a solo tackle, by definition, require that nobody else assisted?
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houndirish
Footballguy
Not to threadjack here but as long as we're talking about defining "tackles", does pushing a guy out of bounds typically get scored as a tackle, and if so do you get the "full credit" solo variety or does this go down as an assist, or, as mentioned is this open to the interpretation of the statistician and thus gets scored inconsistently from one team to another?
One last "tackling" question. I know this might seem simple but where is the line drawn between a sack and a tackle? I was always under the impression that if it's a passing play and the QB is tackled behind the line then it's considered a sack, however a few weeks ago I saw a play that wasn't recorded according to this perception, granted there was a wrinkle. I believe it was during the Bengals-Eagles tie, Fitzpatrick started to drop back after the snap but he tripped and fell down. I don't recall if this was a result of his lineman stepping on his foot as he was pulling away from center or if he just tripped on his own. However it was an obvious pass play. Again, I don't recall if Cincy lined up empty backfield or if the lone back ran out to the flat immediately on the snap but bottom line this play never could've been remotely considered a running play. Anyway, Eagles D-Linemen Juqua Parker changed his rush angle once he saw Fitzpatrick had tripped and literally two hand touched him while he was on the ground to kill the play. My impression is this should've been considered a sack, albeit a cheap one, however it was only ruled a tackle. Am I missing something?
One last "tackling" question. I know this might seem simple but where is the line drawn between a sack and a tackle? I was always under the impression that if it's a passing play and the QB is tackled behind the line then it's considered a sack, however a few weeks ago I saw a play that wasn't recorded according to this perception, granted there was a wrinkle. I believe it was during the Bengals-Eagles tie, Fitzpatrick started to drop back after the snap but he tripped and fell down. I don't recall if this was a result of his lineman stepping on his foot as he was pulling away from center or if he just tripped on his own. However it was an obvious pass play. Again, I don't recall if Cincy lined up empty backfield or if the lone back ran out to the flat immediately on the snap but bottom line this play never could've been remotely considered a running play. Anyway, Eagles D-Linemen Juqua Parker changed his rush angle once he saw Fitzpatrick had tripped and literally two hand touched him while he was on the ground to kill the play. My impression is this should've been considered a sack, albeit a cheap one, however it was only ruled a tackle. Am I missing something?
johnnyboy8102
Footballguy
From my experience, if a player physically pushed a player out of bounds or somehow "changes" the ball carrier's movement so that he goes out of bounds then a solo is awarded. But, if a player catches a pass and then just falls or runs out of bounds on his own power than no tackle is awarded. With sacks, it is generally on passing plays like you mentioned or when the QB is scrambling. Now, if it is an obvious run for the QB then I have seen it marked down as a tackle for loss and not a sack. The QB falling down seems to be inconsistent too. In '06, Steve Mcnair tripped and fell after a snap and Shawne Merriman came in and touched him as was awarded a sack. I have also seen where the referee has blown the whistle when the QB fell because his "forward progress" had stopped and then no tackle/sack was recored. Also, there are inconsistencies with pass deflections. I have seen players getting awarded one if they hit a potential receiver and prevent him from making the catch and then I have seen them awarded ONLY when the defender makes contact with the ball. I have a question for you guys? How come the ref blew the whistle on the Ray Lewis sack last night when he clearly was causing the fumble? Lewis is an IDP of mine and it has been frustrating the past few weeks because in the Bengals game last week he was tackling Benson and striped the ball out and fell on it before Benson's knee was down but the ref had blown the whistle right as Lewis seemed to make contact with Benson. That negated a forced fumble and a recovery for me and last night the same thing happened to me on the sack of Campbell. The NFL needs to change the rules so these plays can be reviewed.
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Jene Bramel
Footballguy
I summarized many of the most difficult to score circumstances in the above linked article. In this case, the solo tackle is up to the discretion of the stat crew and depends on whether the ballcarrier is running out of bounds to stop the clock or not in imminent danger of being hit (no tackle awarded) or running out of bounds to avoid a hit (solo tackle awarded).
You're not missing anything. There remain plays every week that aren't scored according to the guidelines in the NFL video. Hard to know what the crew was thinking there if Fitzpatrick did not make an attempt to get up and advance the ball. With rare exception, sacks are the primary defensive stat that gets reviewed each week and changed if necessary, probably because they're considered an official statistic. I've seen tackles (mostly related to forced fumbles) changed this season, too, but it's rare.
There are very specific guidelines for passes defensed as well in the NFL video, linked above.No answer for you on the Lewis play. Those lightning quick judgment calls are tough and you'd think that the league would be interested in getting the call correct. Whether they change the replay rules or encourage officials to use a slower whistle, there's an argument that something should be done here.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
#1 overall LB this week easily. The Giants matchup has been the best matchup in the league for two months and James has improved nearly every week since they installed him as an every-down player some weeks ago.Looks like a lock for 8+ solos.Yeah, so anyways.......How about Bradie James this week?
