Trading LB for D-Line (1 Viewer)

[houndirish]

Any good insights amongst the group for justifying this sort of move? It's not a tactic I typically consider however I'm presently considering a deal that might be worthwhile. I tend to agree with the masses that linebacker strength can cover a lot of other weaknesses on D. However a good sack artist can pay healthy dividends too.

I've got relative but risky strength already at D-Line (Will Smith and Bryan Thomas). However I'm uneasy at the thought of MFL converting Thomas to LB. If that happens I have a pretty steep falloff to my next level of DL (Ekuban, McCray, Berry). Also keep in mind we haven't done cutdowns so some of those reserves might not even be in the picture.

I picked up LB Keith Ellison from Buffalo in the offseason. Ellison is in postion to have his best season thanks to the departures of Spikes, and Fletcher. However I'm really struggling to quantify what I feel I can reasonably expect from the guy. I've got a Bills homer in my league who will deal me Umenyiora for Ellison, straight up. Can't decide if I should be asking for more or rushing to accept. Thoughts?

 

[Keg]

Any good insights amongst the group for justifying this sort of move? It's not a tactic I typically consider however I'm presently considering a deal that might be worthwhile. I tend to agree with the masses that linebacker strength can cover a lot of other weaknesses on D. However a good sack artist can pay healthy dividends too.I've got relative but risky strength already at D-Line (Will Smith and Bryan Thomas). However I'm uneasy at the thought of MFL converting Thomas to LB. If that happens I have a pretty steep falloff to my next level of DL (Ekuban, McCray, Berry). Also keep in mind we haven't done cutdowns so some of those reserves might not even be in the picture.I picked up LB Keith Ellison from Buffalo in the offseason. Ellison is in postion to have his best season thanks to the departures of Spikes, and Fletcher. However I'm really struggling to quantify what I feel I can reasonably expect from the guy. I've got a Bills homer in my league who will deal me Umenyiora for Ellison, straight up. Can't decide if I should be asking for more or rushing to accept. Thoughts?

Ellisons value might never be higher but sure could plummet come draft day...I say you take the sure thing in OSI ...fwiw Berry could be in for a very good yr if he stays healthy(but that is a BIG IF)

 

[bcr8f]

Any good insights amongst the group for justifying this sort of move? It's not a tactic I typically consider however I'm presently considering a deal that might be worthwhile. I tend to agree with the masses that linebacker strength can cover a lot of other weaknesses on D. However a good sack artist can pay healthy dividends too.I've got relative but risky strength already at D-Line (Will Smith and Bryan Thomas). However I'm uneasy at the thought of MFL converting Thomas to LB. If that happens I have a pretty steep falloff to my next level of DL (Ekuban, McCray, Berry). Also keep in mind we haven't done cutdowns so some of those reserves might not even be in the picture.I picked up LB Keith Ellison from Buffalo in the offseason. Ellison is in postion to have his best season thanks to the departures of Spikes, and Fletcher. However I'm really struggling to quantify what I feel I can reasonably expect from the guy. I've got a Bills homer in my league who will deal me Umenyiora for Ellison, straight up. Can't decide if I should be asking for more or rushing to accept. Thoughts?

Do the trade immediately. I wish I could. Ellison may not be a starter after draft day.

 

[Rozelle]

I agree with bcr8f

 

[Zoomanji]

Any good insights amongst the group for justifying this sort of move? It's not a tactic I typically consider however I'm presently considering a deal that might be worthwhile. I tend to agree with the masses that linebacker strength can cover a lot of other weaknesses on D. However a good sack artist can pay healthy dividends too.

I've got relative but risky strength already at D-Line (Will Smith and Bryan Thomas). However I'm uneasy at the thought of MFL converting Thomas to LB. If that happens I have a pretty steep falloff to my next level of DL (Ekuban, McCray, Berry). Also keep in mind we haven't done cutdowns so some of those reserves might not even be in the picture.

I picked up LB Keith Ellison from Buffalo in the offseason. Ellison is in postion to have his best season thanks to the departures of Spikes, and Fletcher. However I'm really struggling to quantify what I feel I can reasonably expect from the guy. I've got a Bills homer in my league who will deal me Umenyiora for Ellison, straight up. Can't decide if I should be asking for more or rushing to accept. Thoughts?

Do the trade immediately. I wish I could. Ellison may not be a starter after draft day.

Crowell, rookie and ???How does Ellison lose out other than moving from WLB to SLB?

Other than being terrible...

 

[Jene Bramel]

Any good insights amongst the group for justifying this sort of move? It's not a tactic I typically consider however I'm presently considering a deal that might be worthwhile. I tend to agree with the masses that linebacker strength can cover a lot of other weaknesses on D. However a good sack artist can pay healthy dividends too.I've got relative but risky strength already at D-Line (Will Smith and Bryan Thomas). However I'm uneasy at the thought of MFL converting Thomas to LB. If that happens I have a pretty steep falloff to my next level of DL (Ekuban, McCray, Berry). Also keep in mind we haven't done cutdowns so some of those reserves might not even be in the picture.I picked up LB Keith Ellison from Buffalo in the offseason. Ellison is in postion to have his best season thanks to the departures of Spikes, and Fletcher. However I'm really struggling to quantify what I feel I can reasonably expect from the guy. I've got a Bills homer in my league who will deal me Umenyiora for Ellison, straight up. Can't decide if I should be asking for more or rushing to accept. Thoughts?

I'd make the deal. The Bills should be looking LB early and Ellison, while he'll still start, will become the third option. Hip flexor injuries like the one Osi had can be fully recovered from and aren't usually a recurring deal. They're also likely to put a serious dent in the on field play of somebody like Osi who relies on an explosive first step. Osi's a safe bet to return to upper tier DE status, Ellison needs some help. There'll be all kinds of Ellison-ish players available in this year's draft that will get a shot at playing sooner than the Osi-ish guys (who will be plentiful too).In regard to the larger question, the default "don't move LB for DL" is reasonable. But if you're trying to win a title or improve your team long-term, sometimes (to me) it's worth overpaying or trading from a position of higher value to one of lower value. While it's generally poor long-term strategy to take a deal that's not in your favor from a value standpoint, my philosophy is that you play to win (or rebuild) soon. Taking a five year approach is nice, but if you're targeting the best players your window will probably be pretty broad anyway.

 

[bcr8f]

Any good insights amongst the group for justifying this sort of move? It's not a tactic I typically consider however I'm presently considering a deal that might be worthwhile. I tend to agree with the masses that linebacker strength can cover a lot of other weaknesses on D. However a good sack artist can pay healthy dividends too.

I've got relative but risky strength already at D-Line (Will Smith and Bryan Thomas). However I'm uneasy at the thought of MFL converting Thomas to LB. If that happens I have a pretty steep falloff to my next level of DL (Ekuban, McCray, Berry). Also keep in mind we haven't done cutdowns so some of those reserves might not even be in the picture.

I picked up LB Keith Ellison from Buffalo in the offseason. Ellison is in postion to have his best season thanks to the departures of Spikes, and Fletcher. However I'm really struggling to quantify what I feel I can reasonably expect from the guy. I've got a Bills homer in my league who will deal me Umenyiora for Ellison, straight up. Can't decide if I should be asking for more or rushing to accept. Thoughts?

Do the trade immediately. I wish I could. Ellison may not be a starter after draft day.

Crowell, rookie and ???How does Ellison lose out other than moving from WLB to SLB?

Other than being terrible...

He may start the season but if they drasft more than 1 LB may not start the whole year. My point was his long term status is unknown.

 

[Keg]

Any good insights amongst the group for justifying this sort of move? It's not a tactic I typically consider however I'm presently considering a deal that might be worthwhile. I tend to agree with the masses that linebacker strength can cover a lot of other weaknesses on D. However a good sack artist can pay healthy dividends too.I've got relative but risky strength already at D-Line (Will Smith and Bryan Thomas). However I'm uneasy at the thought of MFL converting Thomas to LB. If that happens I have a pretty steep falloff to my next level of DL (Ekuban, McCray, Berry). Also keep in mind we haven't done cutdowns so some of those reserves might not even be in the picture.I picked up LB Keith Ellison from Buffalo in the offseason. Ellison is in postion to have his best season thanks to the departures of Spikes, and Fletcher. However I'm really struggling to quantify what I feel I can reasonably expect from the guy. I've got a Bills homer in my league who will deal me Umenyiora for Ellison, straight up. Can't decide if I should be asking for more or rushing to accept. Thoughts?

I'd make the deal. The Bills should be looking LB early and Ellison, while he'll still start, will become the third option. Hip flexor injuries like the one Osi had can be fully recovered from and aren't usually a recurring deal. They're also likely to put a serious dent in the on field play of somebody like Osi who relies on an explosive first step. Osi's a safe bet to return to upper tier DE status, Ellison needs some help. There'll be all kinds of Ellison-ish players available in this year's draft that will get a shot at playing sooner than the Osi-ish guys (who will be plentiful too).In regard to the larger question, the default "don't move LB for DL" is reasonable. But if you're trying to win a title or improve your team long-term, sometimes (to me) it's worth overpaying or trading from a position of higher value to one of lower value. While it's generally poor long-term strategy to take a deal that's not in your favor from a value standpoint, my philosophy is that you play to win (or rebuild) soon. Taking a five year approach is nice, but if you're targeting the best players your window will probably be pretty broad anyway.

 

[TheGreatest]

Your robbing the guy is you get Osi for Ellison. Take the deal quick!

 

[redman]

LB's are the WR's of the defense. Yes, there are studs, but outside of an elite handful the marginal drop from one guy to the next is slow and steady. There's a huge middle class.

DL, however, is another kettle of fish. They're the TE's of the defense and so the truly excellent ones are few and far between. Just on the grounds of replaceability, I'd much rather have a good DL than a good LB.

 

[Bob Magaw]

run, don't walk, to your fantasy site & make that trade for osi... he has the physical tools, natural ability & skills to be the second best DE in football (after peppers)... guys like that you might be lucky to find once in 5-10 years (or never)... i mean in your fantasy leagues...

 

[lions327]

LB's are the WR's of the defense. Yes, there are studs, but outside of an elite handful the marginal drop from one guy to the next is slow and steady. There's a huge middle class. DL, however, is another kettle of fish. They're the TE's of the defense and so the truly excellent ones are few and far between. Just on the grounds of replaceability, I'd much rather have a good DL than a good LB.

 

[KellysHeroes]

If B Thomas is an offical LB this yr.. he's like a #4... Osi will be a #1 DL...

so there you go

 

[-OZ-]

LB's are the WR's of the defense. Yes, there are studs, but outside of an elite handful the marginal drop from one guy to the next is slow and steady. There's a huge middle class.

DL, however, is another kettle of fish. They're the TE's of the defense and so the truly excellent ones are few and far between. Just on the grounds of replaceability, I'd much rather have a good DL than a good LB.

While I agree, LBs are often compared to RBs. You need good quality depth there to win.I'll always take the stud DE over a mediocre LB, although Ellison could produce well in Buffalo.

There's no chance that I'd trade Osi for Ellison in the league I have him. In fact, there's probably only around 10 LBs I would trade him for.

 

[coolnerd]

LB's are the WR's of the defense. Yes, there are studs, but outside of an elite handful the marginal drop from one guy to the next is slow and steady. There's a huge middle class. DL, however, is another kettle of fish. They're the TE's of the defense and so the truly excellent ones are few and far between. Just on the grounds of replaceability, I'd much rather have a good DL than a good LB.

Especially, if your league separates DE from DT and the larger your league. Also, like TEs, there are plenty of DEs who have fool's gold weeks where a player plays against some horrible OL or falls into a sack or two like the TE who gets garbage time catches or a goalline Tds. In both cases, this leads players to incorrectly believe there always good options setting on the waiver wire.

 

[Toads]

Depends on your scoring system.

Using the average points scored/position drop down, establish how many points are scored by your position individual players (DE/DT or by DE and DT's).

Next, go to the sort for the player positions and sort by "Average Points Scored". Use this to establish how many individual players score over the average...in this case, it's also called the mean distribution. What you are trying to do is to establish the value of a #1 position player....a #1 being the starter for each of the number of teams in your league. If you are in a 12 team league and there are 24 DE/DT's above the average scored for those players, you'd like to have at least one player in the top 12 players (your #1) and at least one player in the top 13-24 players (your #2 starter). Ideally, counting bye weeks and injuries, you'd like to have three players above the average scored for the position....3 out of the top 24 in this example.

If you use the sort for "Average Points Scored" per week, it only works for the whole season. To isolate the last six weeks, last three weeks, use that sort and divide by the number of weeks for the sort to get the average during the reduced period.

If you are strong at LB (using the same analysis factors) and weak at DL, trading works if you are able to trade "bench points" for "lineup points".

 

[redman]

LB's are the WR's of the defense. Yes, there are studs, but outside of an elite handful the marginal drop from one guy to the next is slow and steady. There's a huge middle class.

DL, however, is another kettle of fish. They're the TE's of the defense and so the truly excellent ones are few and far between. Just on the grounds of replaceability, I'd much rather have a good DL than a good LB.

Especially, if your league separates DE from DT and the larger your league. Also, like TEs, there are plenty of DEs who have fool's gold weeks where a player plays against some horrible OL or falls into a sack or two like the TE who gets garbage time catches or a goalline Tds. In both cases, this leads players to incorrectly believe there always good options setting on the waiver wire.

Definitely. I should have added that.