Trent Richardson vs. Doug Martin (1 Viewer)

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

Who's the better pick for this year? For the next several years?

I saw that Martin was signed today (or yesterday, can't recall) and he should get a lot of three-down looks. He can catch so in PPRs he should be good.

Richardson plays in a brutal division, run defense-wise. But he's the higher draft pick.

Don't know much about either guy outside of watching some of their national games. What say ye?

 

[ItsOnlytheRiver]

The consensus here and everywhere seems to be Richardson by a pretty wide margin.

 

[moderated]

Trent now, Trent later, Trent forever. Not even debatable.

 

[_lurker_]

based on cost, the answer is probably Martin. I offered a lot to move up from 1.03 to 1.01 and was easily rejected. I offered 1.03 and a 2nd to move up to 1.02 to get Martin and was quickly accepted.

If you have 1.01, the answer is easy, but getting TR for any remotely reasonable price is nearly impossible.

 

[finito]

Trent now, Trent later, Trent forever. Not even debatable.

I think it is debatable. LeSean McCoy and Ray Rice aren't as talented as Adrian Peterson, but both are basically as valuable as Peterson in fantasy footall, even if he wasn't injured.

 

[One More Rep]

Richardson

 

[J Giles Band]

Recently traded 1.2 + 1.4 for 1.1 to take Richardson in the rookie draft of my keeper league.

That said, while I view Richardson the better long term bet, I don't see much of a gap between the two this upcoming season due to a better offensive situation for Martin in Tampa. Actually view Martin as the better value pick in a re-draft.

 

[bucksoh]

One thing I learned a long time ago is to stay away from Browns players. Martin will have the better career.

 

[petenice15]

One thing I learned a long time ago is to stay away from Browns players. Martin will have the better career.

Martin may have a better career, no one really knows for sure. But to stay away from any teams players based on past performance is short sighted and stupid.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

One thing I learned a long time ago is to stay away from Browns players. Martin will have the better career.

Peyton Hillis finished the season as the No. 2 RB in the leaues in 2010.

 

[jurb26]

One thing I learned a long time ago is to stay away from Browns players. Martin will have the better career.

Peyton Hillis finished the season as the No. 2 RB in the leaues in 2010.

Both guys will produce very well this year. Clev is not anywhere near the fantasy wasteland that people are making it out to be. At least not in the running game. I do like Martin's situation a little better, but Trent is clearly the better talent. For this year it's probably a toss-up to me. Long term it's Trent by a good margin.

 

[Clifford]

Trent now, Trent later, Trent forever. Not even debatable.

I think it is debatable. LeSean McCoy and Ray Rice aren't as talented as Adrian Peterson, but both are basically as valuable as Peterson in fantasy footall, even if he wasn't injured.

Richardson is a slam dunk talent and will compete for the top RB honor most years of his career barring major injury problems.After watching some game film on Martin, I am a little dubious about his ability to beat out LaGarette Blount in camp. After asking what to watch for on film on the Audible, what I came away with is watch a guy's feet and how many steps he takes per yard. Also how many steps it takes a guy to change direction and get back to full speed. He did not impress me in that area in the bowl game against Arizona State.However I am beginning to think that as long as a running back can do the basics and has decent speed and a decent ability to absorb contact, they can be a successful RB2. That's what I think Martin's long term prospects are. Therefore I think the gulf between him and Richardson will become something like the gulf between Adrian Peterson and someone like BJGE.

 

[ImTheScientist]

One thing I learned a long time ago is to stay away from Browns players. Martin will have the better career.

 

[finito]

Trent now, Trent later, Trent forever. Not even debatable.

I think it is debatable. LeSean McCoy and Ray Rice aren't as talented as Adrian Peterson, but both are basically as valuable as Peterson in fantasy footall, even if he wasn't injured.

Richardson is a slam dunk talent and will compete for the top RB honor most years of his career barring major injury problems.After watching some game film on Martin, I am a little dubious about his ability to beat out LaGarette Blount in camp. After asking what to watch for on film on the Audible, what I came away with is watch a guy's feet and how many steps he takes per yard. Also how many steps it takes a guy to change direction and get back to full speed. He did not impress me in that area in the bowl game against Arizona State.However I am beginning to think that as long as a running back can do the basics and has decent speed and a decent ability to absorb contact, they can be a successful RB2. That's what I think Martin's long term prospects are. Therefore I think the gulf between him and Richardson will become something like the gulf between Adrian Peterson and someone like BJGE.

By comparing Martin to BGE you're simply saying he's not very good, which is fine. I disagree but these are all opinions at this point... but my point was that even if someone is talented, that doesn't mean he will put up more fantasy points. Again, see Rice/McCoy vs. Peterson - if you think Martin is going to be close to Rice/McCoy, then it's certainly debatable whether he will be more valuable in fantasy football than Richardson, though Richardson has a much lower bust potential as he's basically a sure thing.

 

[Clifford]

Actually I think BJGE is a pretty good back. He put up over 1k yards in Belichik's system and fully expect about 1100-1200 ru and double-digit TDs from him in Cincy. I just don't think he (or Martin) will ever be a guy who can feasibly get you 1400 ru, another 300 rec, and double digit TDs.

I think that's your difference between a stud RB1 and a RB2. I could be wrong about Martin being more in the RB2 mold as I haven't watched much film. I just see him being a lot closer to guys like Wilson and HIllman than I see him being to Richardson. For 2012 at RB, it's Richardson and then there's everybody else, and the gap is big.

Then again the first time I saw Richardson play as a rookie I said that's a top-five pick and a hall of fame RB if he plays to his true potential. I have never seen his combo of quickness, power, and top-end speed. Plus his instincts and vision got better every year. I not only think he can be the best RB in the NFL during his career, I think he has the potential to be talked about as one of the greatest of all time. It's all upside and potential at this point, but IMO he blew away every college back I have watched in the SEC since I started watching. There's some homerism in there as I am a Bama fan, but what I saw in games made me think he was way better than guys like Rudi Johnson, Shaun Alexander, Darren McFadden, Arian Foster, etc.

 

[Tony Soprano]

That said, while I view Richardson the better long term bet, I don't see much of a gap between the two this upcoming season due to a better offensive situation for Martin in Tampa. Actually view Martin as the better value pick in a re-draft.

Agree with this. In redrafts, you have to pay a premium for TRich and can get Martin several rounds later (based on current ADP)... while their end of the year stats may be closer than the discrepancy in draft slots. Martin is the better value here IMHO.In dynasties, I value talent over opportunity, and Richardson wins easily.

 

[Sabertooth]

Richardson has acquired a bit of a superman status on these boards. I have a feeling that Martin's stats are going to be a lot close this season than people think. For career, I don't think the gap is as cavernous either.

 

[Grahamburn]

Richardson has acquired a bit of a superman status on these boards. I have a feeling that Martin's stats are going to be a lot close this season than people think. For career, I don't think the gap is as cavernous either.

Martin looks like he's playing for the team with the better offense, but Richardson definitely has the advantage in the potential touch department for the 2012 season.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

Some very good input in here. Keep it coming.

 

[Sabertooth]

Richardson has acquired a bit of a superman status on these boards. I have a feeling that Martin's stats are going to be a lot close this season than people think. For career, I don't think the gap is as cavernous either.

Martin looks like he's playing for the team with the better offense, but Richardson definitely has the advantage in the potential touch department for the 2012 season.

Those are both pretty short sighted though. I'm not sure being on a better offense means much for one thing. Look at MJD. He has played in a pop warner offense for years and is a top guy. And you have BJGE playing in an elite offense and getting the majority of the touches and not considered elite. I think Richardson's talent is better.

 

[Grahamburn]

Richardson has acquired a bit of a superman status on these boards. I have a feeling that Martin's stats are going to be a lot close this season than people think. For career, I don't think the gap is as cavernous either.

Martin looks like he's playing for the team with the better offense, but Richardson definitely has the advantage in the potential touch department for the 2012 season.

Those are both pretty short sighted though. I'm not sure being on a better offense means much for one thing. Look at MJD. He has played in a pop warner offense for years and is a top guy. And you have BJGE playing in an elite offense and getting the majority of the touches and not considered elite. I think Richardson's talent is better.

Just about everyone likes Richardson's talent better. I didn't think this thread was about that?If Richardson gets 300 touches and Martin only gets 250 because of Blount's presence, then Richardson will likely score more fantasy points in 2012.The offense matters if Martin is able to put Blount on the bench for the majority of snaps. Martin would definitely be the better value in this case. If Richardson and Martin receive the same number of touches in 2012 I can definitely see Martin finishing higher.

 

[Sabertooth]

Martin could potentially put Blount on the NFL waiver wire.

 

[Grahamburn]

Martin could potentially put Blount on the NFL waiver wire.

Hyperbole, right? The Bucs don't have anywhere near the depth at RB for a move like that. Blount is an extremely cheap option this season that has shown success in the NFL. He's not going anywhere. The question is whether or not Martin can put him into a mop up/short yardage only role because of his receiving and blocking ability.

 

[Clifford]

That said, while I view Richardson the better long term bet, I don't see much of a gap between the two this upcoming season due to a better offensive situation for Martin in Tampa. Actually view Martin as the better value pick in a re-draft.

Agree with this. In redrafts, you have to pay a premium for TRich and can get Martin several rounds later (based on current ADP)... while their end of the year stats may be closer than the discrepancy in draft slots. Martin is the better value here IMHO.In dynasties, I value talent over opportunity, and Richardson wins easily.

What specifically is better in Tampa than in Cleveland?You can say QB but the truth is Freeman regressed severely last year and is not the type of QB who will scare defenses out of the box. TB has a much better WR corps which could help a run game, but the QB has to get it to them.If anything I'd say Trent has a clearer path to workhorse status and their offenses look equally anemic outside the run game for 2012.

 

[jurb26]

That said, while I view Richardson the better long term bet, I don't see much of a gap between the two this upcoming season due to a better offensive situation for Martin in Tampa. Actually view Martin as the better value pick in a re-draft.

Agree with this. In redrafts, you have to pay a premium for TRich and can get Martin several rounds later (based on current ADP)... while their end of the year stats may be closer than the discrepancy in draft slots. Martin is the better value here IMHO.In dynasties, I value talent over opportunity, and Richardson wins easily.

What specifically is better in Tampa than in Cleveland?You can say QB but the truth is Freeman regressed severely last year and is not the type of QB who will scare defenses out of the box. TB has a slightly better WR corps but again not enough to really help a run game.If anything I'd say Trent has a clearer path to workhorse status and their offenses look equally anemic outside the run game for 2012.

I'd say it's the Oline. TB already did a decent job in run blocking and they added the best run blocking G (perhaps best G overall) in football to their roster via FA. THis isn't to say Clev doesn't have a good unit as well. I think they do. TB is are the ones we can realistically expect a nice improvement on though. Also, they've now got a coach who's background is in run heavy offense and it appears he is going to be instituting that in TB as well. It's also helps that there is a glaring difference at WR where TB has a bonified WR1 to take pressure off and 2 solid WR2s as well. Clev is a team of WR2s at best.

 

[Clifford]

Forgot about the VJ add. Thanks for reminding me. Still not seeing offensive prospects of the two teams as worlds apart.

 

[msommer]

Forgot about the VJ add. Thanks for reminding me. Still not seeing offensive prospects of the two teams as worlds apart.

For all that Freeman regressed in 2011 he is not a rookie.

 

[J Giles Band]

Forgot about the VJ add. Thanks for reminding me. Still not seeing offensive prospects of the two teams as worlds apart.

Forgetting Vincent Jackson in your comparison is a glaring omission. So when you ask for specific examples of the difference in offensive situations, the gap in WR cores is huge. Jackson gives Freeman an immediate deep threat to go along with Mike Williams to keep defenses honest and keep additional players out of the box. Both of Tampa's starting wideouts are better than the Browns best WR (Little) who is coming off an up-and-down rookie season. And after Little, Cleveland has a cast of misfits competing for the #2 WR job.Offensive lines are likely a push, with the possibility of a slight edge to Tampa in a Schiano power run blocking scheme after the addition of Nicks (and a better fit for Davin Joseph).And lastly, QB... while Freeman certainly regressed last year, the guy did have a Pro Bowl season two years ago. You can bet that given the choice, every team in the NFL would take Freeman as their starter over a rookie Brandon Weeden. Even if Freeman never fully develops and settles somewhere in between his best and worst seasons, he is a significantly better bet than a rookie QB in Cleveland (not named Cam Newton) with no weapons to throw to.Richardson is the better talent and I also agree he gets used as a workhorse, which helps his prospects for sure... but with no other threats in Cleveland, he will face 8 and 9 guys in the box every snap. Not asking for your agreement here, but the difference in the surrounding casts is clear. Leaving out Vincent Jackson, I guess I can see where you may have felt otherwise. But now that you know, it's time to re-evaluate.

 

[Multiple Scores]

Pretty sure I did a pole on the better landing spot for Richardson between these two teams and it was dead even. LOL

 

[jurb26]

Forgot about the VJ add. Thanks for reminding me. Still not seeing offensive prospects of the two teams as worlds apart.

Forgetting Vincent Jackson in your comparison is a glaring omission. So when you ask for specific examples of the difference in offensive situations, the gap in WR cores is huge. Jackson gives Freeman an immediate deep threat to go along with Mike Williams to keep defenses honest and keep additional players out of the box. Both of Tampa's starting wideouts are better than the Browns best WR (Little) who is coming off an up-and-down rookie season. And after Little, Cleveland has a cast of misfits competing for the #2 WR job.Offensive lines are likely a push, with the possibility of a slight edge to Tampa in a Schiano power run blocking scheme after the addition of Nicks (and a better fit for Davin Joseph).And lastly, QB... while Freeman certainly regressed last year, the guy did have a Pro Bowl season two years ago. You can bet that given the choice, every team in the NFL would take Freeman as their starter over a rookie Brandon Weeden. Even if Freeman never fully develops and settles somewhere in between his best and worst seasons, he is a significantly better bet than a rookie QB in Cleveland (not named Cam Newton) with no weapons to throw to.Richardson is the better talent and I also agree he gets used as a workhorse, which helps his prospects for sure... but with no other threats in Cleveland, he will face 8 and 9 guys in the box every snap. Not asking for your agreement here, but the difference in the surrounding casts is clear. Leaving out Vincent Jackson, I guess I can see where you may have felt otherwise. But now that you know, it's time to re-evaluate.

I agree with your assessment. I'd like to add that I think Weeden is going to prove to be a pretty nice upgrade for Clev at QB, despite his rookie status. He still isn't likely to be as good as Freeman, but an improvement none the less.

 

[Grahamburn]

Pretty sure I did a pole on the better landing spot for Richardson between these two teams and it was dead even. LOL

Whole lot of Browns' fans in the Shark Pool.

 

[werdnoynek]

Pretty sure I did a pole on the better landing spot for Richardson between these two teams and it was dead even. LOL

Whole lot of Browns' fans in the Shark Pool.

how long were these poles?

 

[Sabertooth]

Martin could potentially put Blount on the NFL waiver wire.

Hyperbole, right? The Bucs don't have anywhere near the depth at RB for a move like that. Blount is an extremely cheap option this season that has shown success in the NFL. He's not going anywhere. The question is whether or not Martin can put him into a mop up/short yardage only role because of his receiving and blocking ability.

Blount is and always was a character risk. There were plenty of rumors about he and Mike Williams partying too much last season. He's a poor man's Brandon Jacobs.

 

[Clifford]

You don't cut a productive back because of character risks. You cut them when they commit major offenses or simply don't perform. From what I heard they had issues with Blount's ball security and third-down skills.

 

[Slider]

This Richardson hype is surpassing the Ingram hype of the past.

 

[DoubleG]

This Richardson hype is surpassing the Ingram hype of the past.

While I agree, part of it is simply that Richardson is actually better than Ingram. In fact some have said Richardson is "like Ingram only better - and going to a team with no competition for carries"

 

[Eminence]

This Richardson hype is surpassing the Ingram hype of the past.

Don't talk about the father of my children like that.

 

[Bronx Bomber]

This Richardson hype is surpassing the Ingram hype of the past.

Dude every time I see one of your posts I have to stop myself from trying to squash the bug that I think is on my phone. I think Martin's floor is Ahmad Bradshaw, so high end RB2 in PPR leagues. But he has the game and situation to be a Frank Gore perennial top 5-10 PPR guy. Richardson should have a floor of top 5 and ceiling of #1.

 

[SofaCoach]

I have a question about Richardson, in comparison to Mark Ingram. I don't watch much college ball, just the occasional game and highlights. It seemed like Ingram came out with similar hype last year, with people saying he was a special talent etc...

Ingram battled injuries and committee coaching last year and did show some flashes, but was hardly taking the league by storm. Could Bama's offensive line and all-around great teams be making both of these guys look better than they really are?

Again, don't know, just asking. Similarly, Boise States passing attack probably opened up alot of running lanes for Martin.

 

[Sabertooth]

You don't cut a productive back because of character risks. You cut them when they commit major offenses or simply don't perform. From what I heard they had issues with Blount's ball security and third-down skills.

What if he has fumbling issues and is a character risk? Let us also say for argument sake that hypothetically he is second stringer behind a kid you just spent a high pick on. And what the heck, let's say he punches people in losses and was cut by the original team that drafted him in the preseason of his rookie year. Also not much of a cap hit and he's a bad influence on your young stud WR. How about then?

 

[Sabertooth]

This Richardson hype is surpassing the Ingram hype of the past.

Dude every time I see one of your posts I have to stop myself from trying to squash the bug that I think is on my phone. I think Martin's floor is Ahmad Bradshaw, so high end RB2 in PPR leagues. But he has the game and situation to be a Frank Gore perennial top 5-10 PPR guy. Richardson should have a floor of top 5 and ceiling of #1.

Oh good God. A floor of Top 5? If that's the case he should be the first pick in every single draft this summer.

 

[Bronx Bomber]

This Richardson hype is surpassing the Ingram hype of the past.

Dude every time I see one of your posts I have to stop myself from trying to squash the bug that I think is on my phone. I think Martin's floor is Ahmad Bradshaw, so high end RB2 in PPR leagues. But he has the game and situation to be a Frank Gore perennial top 5-10 PPR guy. Richardson should have a floor of top 5 and ceiling of #1.

Oh good God. A floor of Top 5? If that's the case he should be the first pick in every single draft this summer.

I was thinking dynasty, sorry. If his floor is lower than that then why are people selling the farm to get him? Im fine with saying top 10 is his floor. Is that more reasonable?

 

[Grahamburn]

You don't cut a productive back because of character risks. You cut them when they commit major offenses or simply don't perform. From what I heard they had issues with Blount's ball security and third-down skills.

What if he has fumbling issues and is a character risk? Let us also say for argument sake that hypothetically he is second stringer behind a kid you just spent a high pick on. And what the heck, let's say he punches people in losses and was cut by the original team that drafted him in the preseason of his rookie year. Also not much of a cap hit and he's a bad influence on your young stud WR. How about then?

Blount was an UDFA. Tampa plucked him off of Tennessee's practice squad. The Titans didn't cut him, and from what I've heard they weren't real happy the lost him. He proceeded to run for 5.0 yards per carry and over 1,000 yards in his rookie season with the Bucs. LeGarette Blount can most definitely run the football, and if he improves his receiving/blocking he'll be a threat to Martin's workload.

It remains to be seen how he'll respond to the challenge.

 

[Gandalf]

I own both and will say that I think Richardson is more talented and I think he will also have a better overall career. I see Martin as a legit #1 fantasy back but think Richardson has potential to be the #1 RB overall one day soon. In redraft it is a coin toss to me.

 

[Sabertooth]

You don't cut a productive back because of character risks. You cut them when they commit major offenses or simply don't perform. From what I heard they had issues with Blount's ball security and third-down skills.

What if he has fumbling issues and is a character risk? Let us also say for argument sake that hypothetically he is second stringer behind a kid you just spent a high pick on. And what the heck, let's say he punches people in losses and was cut by the original team that drafted him in the preseason of his rookie year. Also not much of a cap hit and he's a bad influence on your young stud WR. How about then?

Blount was an UDFA. Tampa plucked him off of Tennessee's practice squad. The Titans didn't cut him, and from what I've heard they weren't real happy the lost him. He proceeded to run for 5.0 yards per carry and over 1,000 yards in his rookie season with the Bucs. LeGarette Blount can most definitely run the football, and if he improves his receiving/blocking he'll be a threat to Martin's workload.

It remains to be seen how he'll respond to the challenge.

I believe you have to release a player before he can be placed on the practice squad. I agree though, he could go either way. He could become the next Brandon Jacobs, or the next Lendale White.

 

[Sabertooth]

I own both and will say that I think Richardson is more talented and I think he will also have a better overall career. I see Martin as a legit #1 fantasy back but think Richardson has potential to be the #1 RB overall one day soon. In redraft it is a coin toss to me.

I think so too. Martin is essentially a "not very" poor man's Richardson. He's good at everything, just not generational. Martin's potential reminds me a bit of Ricky Williams, whereas Richardson is more Adrian Petersonian in potential.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I have a question about Richardson, in comparison to Mark Ingram. I don't watch much college ball, just the occasional game and highlights. It seemed like Ingram came out with similar hype last year, with people saying he was a special talent etc...

Their hype is nowhere near similar.Ingram wasn't graded that highly as a prospect and subsequently fell to the end of the first round. He was considered physically mediocre but with great intangibles and vision. When Ingram was racking up yards in his heisman campaign and Richardson was just a true freshman getting the occasional carry, people were already saying that Richardson was the superior back.Richardson graded out incredibly as a prospect, to the point where Cleveland actually felt they needed to trade up to #3 to get him. He's both physically and mentally considered to be a generational talent that is considered the best RB prospect since Adrian Peterson by many.No one was even thinking about mentioning Adrian Peterson in the same sentence as Ingram when he came out. As a prospect, Ingram was simply the best back in a weak draft class. Richardson is among the best backs (as a prospect) in the last decade.ETA: Ingram's dynasty ADP in his rookie year was RB21. Richardson's is RB4.

 

[DoubleG]

I have a question about Richardson, in comparison to Mark Ingram. I don't watch much college ball, just the occasional game and highlights. It seemed like Ingram came out with similar hype last year, with people saying he was a special talent etc...

Their hype is nowhere near similar.Ingram wasn't graded that highly as a prospect and subsequently fell to the end of the first round. He was considered physically mediocre but with great intangibles and vision. When Ingram was racking up yards in his heisman campaign and Richardson was just a true freshman getting the occasional carry, people were already saying that Richardson was the superior back.

Richardson graded out incredibly as a prospect, to the point where Cleveland actually felt they needed to trade up to #3 to get him. He's both physically and mentally considered to be a generational talent that is considered the best RB prospect since Adrian Peterson by many.

No one was even thinking about mentioning Adrian Peterson in the same sentence as Ingram when he came out. As a prospect, Ingram was simply the best back in a weak draft class. Richardson is among the best backs (as a prospect) in the last decade.

ETA: Ingram's dynasty ADP in his rookie year was RB21. Richardson's is RB4.

Ahh - see, I was going to ask the other question. That is, where would Martin have compared to Ingram if both were coming out this year and no Trent (or last year if you like). In many dynasty rookie drafts last season AJ Green and even Julio were going ahead of Ingram. If Martin had come out last season, would he have been going number 1 overall - and by what margin?

I guess the question is if we forget about Trent Richardson, where exactly does Martin fit overall? We know that most feel Trent >> Martin, but what about Martin compared to other rookie RBs that have come out lately? I think that is a far more interesting question. Put another way, what would the hype surrounding Martin look like if Trent weren't coming out the same year?

 

[Jersey Jammer]

I've learned the hard way that all rookies are high risk. Many "can't miss" rookie RBs and WRs disappoint. So I'd never draft a rookie as my number 1 RB. For that spot I need a safer pick. Martin would be OK cause you'd get him later, and even then I'd want a decent #3 to safeguard myself against him being a bust.

 

[VA703]

trent under norv or doug still the better pick here?