Trip’s top 10 Most Undervalued WRs – Precamp Edition (1 Viewer)

[nirad3]

True, but we are just talking who the better receiver is here, not who is going to score the most this year.  Raiders are a lot more heavily invested in Cooper than Brayn, so even if Bryant outperforms Cooper, Cooper will get more targets because of the investment and relationship with Carr...doesn't mean Martavis isn't better.

  OK, so you get fantasy points for being the better player?  Got it.

 

[Interseptopus]

True, but we are just talking who the better receiver is here, not who is going to score the most this year.  Raiders are a lot more heavily invested in Cooper than Brayn, so even if Bryant outperforms Cooper, Cooper will get more targets because of the investment and relationship with Carr...doesn't mean Martavis isn't better.

eh, I thought this was a fantasy football forum. 

I dont get points for those acronyms you mentioned, so if Bryant does better than cooper on those, but cooper has a better fantasy season, I couldn't care less

 

[TripItUp]

. 

I think he's a great bargain, and deserves to be on this list. you're certainly entitled to your thought about him being better than and out performing Cooper... but I suspect you are in the minority on that one, even with Cooper critics

To be clear, I believe Bryant is a better WR, but I do believe Cooper is a safer bet to score more fantasy points(like everybody else)

 

[TripItUp]

eh, I thought this was a fantasy football forum. 

I dont get points for those acronyms you mentioned, so if Bryant does better than cooper on those, but cooper has a better fantasy season, I couldn't care less

two topics...everybody, including myself, has cooper ranked higher than Bryant in ff for obvious reasons.  

I'm simply stating that I believe Bryant is a better WR than Cooper, regardless of fantasy points.

 

[Interseptopus]

two topics...everybody, including myself, has cooper ranked higher than Bryant for obvious reasons.  

I'm simply stating that I believe Bryant is a better WR than Cooper, regardless of fantasy points.

I think it's almost impossible to tell, as they both serve different purposes in the offense. therefore it's a debate that would never end

 

[Football Jones]

No suspension coming?

It's possible, but it's looking like he could skate.

Even with a short suspension, Anderson is easily worth a 9th round pick given his upside.

 

[Kam2]

almost every receiving metric favors Bryant.

DYAR, DVOA, Drop Rate, Separation Distance, YPC...and on and on and on.

Cooper = Overrated

Put Cooper on Pittsburgh and Bryant on Oakland sans Cooper. How much would those metrics change?

I like the Kenny Stills call. Seems like people are still trying to make Davante Parker a thing when you can get Stills a couple rounds later and basically the same projection.

Two other guys I really like at their current ADP are Chris Hogan and Randall Cobb. Both of them are going after Edelman, Crabtree, Will Fuller, and Corey Davis in most PPR drafts.

 

[Football Jones]

I can beat it: Quincy Enunwa. 

I can appreciate Enunwa as a sleeper, but Anderson has not only produced more, he's got a higher ceiling.

In Enunwa's 2nd season (2016), he finished in the 40s at WR. In Robby's 2nd season (2017), he finished in the mid-to-high teens depending on scoring format. Big difference.

Anderson is also younger & has more headroom.

 

[TripItUp]

Two other guys I really like at their current ADP are Chris Hogan and Randall Cobb. Both of them are going after Edelman, Crabtree, Will Fuller, and Corey Davis in most PPR drafts.

I like Hogan, although the target distribution is tough to project with a healthy Gronk and Edelman(which may not ever be a thing)

I'd like to hear Anarchy's thoughts on the Pats target distribution forecast.

 

[Tau837]

I see this mentioned a lot, but really the choice was between a 2nd round tender or the original round tender. TW was a UDFA and the 2nd rounder cost $1m more than original round, so it was kind of a no brainier to give him that tender regardless of what MW did. Now if they locked Tyrell up long term, I'd consider it a meaningful move regarding how they value their Williams'.

Agree with this.

Furthermore, they needed to keep Tyrell as insurance, because:

• Allen played all season last year but missed most of the previous 2 seasons, and both times that really hurt the offense.
  
• Mike Williams had a lost rookie season due to injury.
  
• Travis Benjamin is the only other WR on the roster with significant game experience on offense.
  

IMO Tyrell will not ascend the depth chart unless there are injuries ahead of him. He makes too many mistakes and does not play up to his athleticism.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Pryor is a BUST, and the NYJ is where WRs go to die. I want none of it.

enjoy.

First of all--I just want to comment in general that this is another cool thread. Some nice names being mentioned in here--and once again--I think there are good arguments being made on both sides.  

However--I disagree with this one.  Robby Anderson was a guy that went late in a lot of drafts last season--and he provided some solid ROI.   I'm not sure anybody that drafts Pryor is hoping for a reliable WR1-2-3 that they can rely on for production week to week--but at where he's going in drafts--I think his risk/reward makes a ton of sense. The Jets could be behind in a lot of games and he could be playing against a lot of softened defenses.  If his price stays this low--I'm interested.  Now if he moves up several rounds as the season gets closer--that would change things for me.  

 

[Tanner9919]

We had good participation in the RB thread so I thought I would give the WRs a shot.   (ADP per FF calculator and FFPC,  PPR 12 team leagues)

1.    Larry Fitzgerald ADP WR#15 3.09 Overall

Larry Legend was the #4 PPR WR last year and now he has dropped to #15 because no more Arians-Palmer???   Larry showed no signs of slowing down and IMHO has a better QB situation.  With very little competition for targets, Larry is locked in for another top 10 year and screams value.  Don’t overthink this one.

2.   Pierre Garcon – ADP WR#31 and 6.12 Overall

Garcon was on pace for 80 receptions and 1000 yards last year before succumbing to injury.  I don’t like him as much in standard leagues because TDs may be low as witnessed by his 2017 season, but you can do a lot worse at WR31 in PPR drafts given Garcon’s status in Shanahan’s Garropolo offense.

3.   Robby Anderson – ADP WR#43 9.03 Overall

Anderson finished #19 in PPR formats last year and that was with a new coach and offense..  Anderson has a bit more competition with Pryor and Enunwa returning but both Prior and Enunwa are coming back from injury and don’t have established roles or rapport with McCown like Anderson does.  Last year wasn’t an outlier either as Anderson flashed his rookie year and had one of the best rookie years in 2016…way under the radar.    I’ll be surprised if Anderson doesn’t provide value this year yet again.

4.   Devin Funchess – ADP WR#35 7.12 Overall

Funchess finished 22nd last year and that was with Kelvin Benjamin plodding alongside him.  Now Funchess is the man and the coaching staff believes he’s just “scratching the surface” of his capability….Funchess will be on most of my teams.

5.   Martavis Bryant – ADP WR#53 12.01 Overall 

Martavis is the best WR on the Raiders period.   Clearly there is some off the field risk that goes with the on-field reward, but Martavis is one of the few WRs going after the 10th round that can deliver WR2 value.  Martavis is a good gamble in the 11th round.  

6.   Kenny Stills – ADP WR#50 11.04 Overall

Quietly put up a very solid season and actually has consistently scored TDs despite Miami’s consistent struggles.   Stills finished 29th in WR scoring last year and nothing has changed.  With excellent big play ability as demonstrated by his career 16.1 YPC, Stills is a very solid play in the 12th round.

7.   Christian Kirk – ADP WR#62 13.12 Overall

Kirk was running with the first team in OTAs and say what you want about Sam Bradford, when healthy he can chuck the ball.   Kirk was a heck of a playmaker in college and has a good chance at surprising with a nice opportunity and talent combo. 

8.   Geronimo Allison – ADP WR#59 13.06 Overall

Allison is #3 on the depth chart but Cobb, the current  #2, is in a walking boot and doesn’t have near the big play ability of Allison which Allison demonstrated last year.  Allison boasts a career YPC over 18.   It always seems to take Rodgers a year or two to gain trust in his WRs and this is year 3 for Allison in Green Bay.   Allison is on almost all of my deep rosters.

9.   Ryan Grant – ADP W R#82 24.02 Overall

For really deep leagues you can do a lot worse than Andrew Luck’s potential  #2 WR.   Grant quietly had 45 receptions last year for the Redskins and is IMHO the 2nd best WR on the roster and should win the starting gig.   One of my favorite deep sleepers in large roster formats, particularly if Luck comes back to Pro Bowl form.

10. Terrelle Pryor – ADP WR#87 25.09 Overall

Another deep sleeper, but one where even casual fans know the name. A trendy middle round upside pick last year after a thousand yard season with Cleveland, Pryor blames injury for his struggles in Washington and those injuries were eventually confirmed and ended his season.  If Pryor can have a big year in Cleveland he can have a big year wit the Jets.  Who knows if the targets will be there, but at this ultra cheap price you would be hard pressed to find as much previously demonstrated upside at WR.  

nice list..#8 especially good IMO..#1 and #2 should be studs.

 

[BoltBacker]

WR#87, 25th round...most drafts don't even go this deep. 

We call those JV drafts, brah.

 

[Snorkelson]

I can appreciate Enunwa as a sleeper, but Anderson has not only produced more, he's got a higher ceiling.

In Enunwa's 2nd season (2016), he finished in the 40s at WR. In Robby's 2nd season (2017), he finished in the mid-to-high teens depending on scoring format. Big difference.

Anderson is also younger & has more headroom.

Cheap shot at the guy who had a neck injury? Enunwa is kind of a tweener, almost a te. I feel like anderson got targets by default, and if darnold is starting at some point who knows what kind of rapport they have. Risky investment for any of them, so I’d take a shot on the cheapest one but probably avoiding that team altogether. Don’t trust the oline, McCown is ok for fantasy, Crowell is ok, Robby is ok, defense is meh, I’m just not feeling good about the jets at all. 

 

[Football Jones]

Cheap shot at the guy who had a neck injury? Enunwa is kind of a tweener, almost a te. I feel like anderson got targets by default, and if darnold is starting at some point who knows what kind of rapport they have. Risky investment for any of them, so I’d take a shot on the cheapest one but probably avoiding that team altogether. Don’t trust the oline, McCown is ok for fantasy, Crowell is ok, Robby is ok, defense is meh, I’m just not feeling good about the jets at all. 

Yeah, the Jets as a team are a whole different conversation. That said, Darnold is a good prospect & somebody will be the #1.

Anderson is easily the best guess as things stand now. While no sure thing, we’re talking about a guy who’s 6’3 & runs a legit mid-4.3 40. When you take into consideration his relative lack of experience at the position, his numbers last year in only his 2nd season are EXTREMELY impressive (finishing in the mid-to-high teens depending on scoring format).

Robby has some Randy Moss to his game. This cat is no joke as an NFL deep threat with a rare height/speed combo. What’s really exciting is he’s got the headroom to get quite a bit better at all aspects of WR play.

The knucklehead factor is real, but Anderson has a fantastic price-to-upside ratio if his ADP stays close to the 9th round like it is now.

 

[Men-in-Cleats]

To be clear, I believe Bryant is a better WR, but I do believe Cooper is a safer bet to score more fantasy points(like everybody else)

Considering last year Cooper couldn't catch a cold, I wouldn't be too quick to assume he has the better head on his shoulders and higher ceiling.  If a ball came his way it was a coin toss whether or not he was going to catch it or not.  Leading up to his huge 210 yard, 2 TD game he was absolutely worthless for the previous 5 games and he didn't have another game worthy of his draft position until the last week of the season where only those with week 17 championships could benefit if they were still starting him or made it that far with a high draft pick doing jack squat for them most of the season.  He has never played to his potential to this point so I wouldn't stake my life on him doing so this year. 

 

[zamboni]

He strikes me as the type of WR that McCown will love throwing to.  If he can shake the injury bug, I think he'll be a huge value.  Fingers crossed.

McCown already loves throwing to Anderson, so if you want an undervalued Jets WR, he’s probably your guy until Darnold takes over. When that happens, who knows whom the rookie will favor.

 

[menobrown]

Considering last year Cooper couldn't catch a cold, I wouldn't be too quick to assume he has the better head on his shoulders and higher ceiling. 

 Horrendous take, Martavis is still more likely than not to get suspended.

 

[JoeJoe88]

 Horrendous take, Martavis is still more likely than not to get suspended.

Source?  There's been no more information about this supposed incoming suspension.  In fact, the only thing that's been verified in the meantime is the fact that he has not failed a drug test or missed one.

 

[Ilov80s]

I can appreciate Enunwa as a sleeper, but Anderson has not only produced more, he's got a higher ceiling.

In Enunwa's 2nd season (2016), he finished in the 40s at WR. In Robby's 2nd season (2017), he finished in the mid-to-high teens depending on scoring format. Big difference.

Anderson is also younger & has more headroom.

Sure, Robby has the track record and at WR42, he is worth a flyer. However, there are guys around him I like better. Enunwa is WR80 and I think there is a strong chance he gets more targets than Anderson. Anderson caught 63 for 941 and 7 in 2017. The year prior Enunwa caught 58 for 857 and 4. It is not such a wide difference in production and there is always the question of how much of Andersons target volume was due to the loss of Enunwa. 

 

[Men-in-Cleats]

 Horrendous take, Martavis is still more likely than not to get suspended.

Yeah, I was referring more to on-the-field, concentration, etc.  He dropped a lot of balls and his receiving percentage was third worst in the league.  Bryant is definitely more likely to do something off the field to get suspended but if they are both on the field I see Bryant just as likely to be the #1 there as Cooper given performance on the field. 

 

[menobrown]

Source?  There's been no more information about this supposed incoming suspension.  In fact, the only thing that's been verified in the meantime is the fact that he has not failed a drug test or missed one.

Just because he did not fail a test he and is saying he's not been informed of a suspension is hardly reason to assume he is in the clear. We don't know what the outcome will be, which is why I did not speak in absolutes. For several years I've followed both the writer who reported the Raiders feared a suspension and the one who wrote the article for The Athletic that lot of people seem to think cleared him(which it did not). Both of those reporters are IMO solid and I think their reporting is honest. With that information and some other things I've read or heard I'm taking an educated guess and my guess remains he's more likely than not to get suspended. I don't think this is a nothingburger, it's just a matter of if he can clear up what I'm taking an educated guess is a technicality with the testing process/location/time.

 

[menobrown]

Yeah, I was referring more to on-the-field, concentration, etc.  He dropped a lot of balls and his receiving percentage was third worst in the league.  Bryant is definitely more likely to do something off the field to get suspended but if they are both on the field I see Bryant just as likely to be the #1 there as Cooper given performance on the field. 

I don't agree but Bryant does have legit #1 WR skills and if he can stay on the field and grasp the offense it's not a a crazy take and it's a situation where he could be better than Cooper and Cooper still not disappoint anyone who believes in him-which I do. And thanks for on the field clarification.

 

[Ilov80s]

I don't agree but Bryant does have legit #1 WR skills and if he can stay on the field and grasp the offense it's not a a crazy take and it's a situation where he could be better than Cooper and Cooper still not disappoint anyone who believes in him-which I do. And thanks for on the field clarification.

What makes you think he has #1 WR skills? Do you mean to be the #1 WR on a team or a top 12 fantasy WR?

Bryant's career 16 game pace is 56 for 852 and 8 on 100 targets. 

 

[menobrown]

What makes you think he has #1 WR skills? Do you mean to be the #1 WR on a team or a top 12 fantasy WR?

Bryant's career 16 game pace is 56 for 852 and 8 on 100 targets. 

In answer to the questions I'd say yes to both in terms of his ability.  

On the first question I don't think there are 31 WR's in the NFL more talented then him. To me he has prototype #1 WR skills.

On the second question he's already posted a #15 PPG season, granted over only 10 games, but I don't think it's a huge stretch to say I think he can get inside the top 12 in a full season.

But let's just say he avoids suspension. I think Cooper is the #1 WR on this team and he won't be a threat for top 12 kind of status until he's had a good clean year in this new system. So in other words I'd not predicting any of those two questions come true this year and I'd draft both Jordy and Cooper over him right now but if he avoids suspension I think I'd at least move him over Jordy. Long way of me saying I think ability is there for the answer to be yes to both questions, I don't think either happens this year even if he avoids suspension.

I'd just add I'm not knocking him for lack of targets in an offense with arguably the best WR and pass catching RB in the league.  But he's been productive on a per target basis, productive in terms of real NFL production and  I believe a strong 1.87 PPG points per target in fantasy.  I get that some players style is just not conducive to becoming high target guys so it's kind of foolish to a degree to extrapolate what they could do on a higher per game target basis but in his case he showed us already in 2015,  in large part because Bell went down, that he could function in a high capacity with a larger per game target share. Now it helps when you play alongside AB of course, so maybe the efficiency lags but to me he's shown the ability.

Just for kicks stat, Martavis over last two years vs Hopkins in 2017:

Martavis, 176 targets, 100/1,368/9

Hopkins,  174, 96/1,378/13

For sure not saying he's as good as Hopkins and life as the #1 WR on the Texans vs life as the #2 or #3 WR on the Steelers provides incredibly different looks, plus the QB situations. Just pointing on that on a per target basis he's shown to be highly productive and again based on what he did in 2015 I think he's also shown ability to continue to continue to excel in a higher target capacity.

 

[Ilov80s]

Good points- I think the big question there will be did playing with AB and Bell help him by creating a lot of space for him to make big plays or did it hurt him by limited his opportunity? If he is good as you think, he will command a bigger target volume than he saw in Pittsburgh. 

 

[Buttonhook]

Good points- I think the big question there will be did playing with AB and Bell help him by creating a lot of space for him to make big plays or did it hurt him by limited his opportunity? If he is good as you think, he will command a bigger target volume than he saw in Pittsburgh. 

It absolutely helped Bryant to play with the PS.  He does not have the complete skillset to be a WR1, never mind the proper mindset.  Take away the threats of AB and Bell, and put a #1 CB on Bryant and he will really struggle.  He's not a good route runner, doesn't have the best hands, and hasn't shown mental toughness on the field.  He can run and jump like Julio and Megatron, but that's where the comparisons end.

 

[Ilov80s]

It absolutely helped Bryant to play with the PS.  He does not have the complete skillset to be a WR1, never mind the proper mindset.  Take away the threats of AB and Bell, and put a #1 CB on Bryant and he will really struggle.  He's not a good route runner, doesn't have the best hands, and hasn't shown mental toughness on the field.  He can run and jump like Julio and Megatron, but that's where the comparisons end.

I agree with you except the part how he can run and jump like Calvin. Martavis is a great athlete, but he isn't Megatron. 

 

[BigTex]

In answer to the questions I'd say yes to both in terms of his ability.  

On the first question I don't think there are 31 WR's in the NFL more talented then him. To me he has prototype #1 WR skills.

On the second question he's already posted a #15 PPG season, granted over only 10 games, but I don't think it's a huge stretch to say I think he can get inside the top 12 in a full season.

But let's just say he avoids suspension. I think Cooper is the #1 WR on this team and he won't be a threat for top 12 kind of status until he's had a good clean year in this new system. So in other words I'd not predicting any of those two questions come true this year and I'd draft both Jordy and Cooper over him right now but if he avoids suspension I think I'd at least move him over Jordy. Long way of me saying I think ability is there for the answer to be yes to both questions, I don't think either happens this year even if he avoids suspension.

I'd just add I'm not knocking him for lack of targets in an offense with arguably the best WR and pass catching RB in the league.  But he's been productive on a per target basis, productive in terms of real NFL production and  I believe a strong 1.87 PPG points per target in fantasy.  I get that some players style is just not conducive to becoming high target guys so it's kind of foolish to a degree to extrapolate what they could do on a higher per game target basis but in his case he showed us already in 2015,  in large part because Bell went down, that he could function in a high capacity with a larger per game target share. Now it helps when you play alongside AB of course, so maybe the efficiency lags but to me he's shown the ability.

Just for kicks stat, Martavis over last two years vs Hopkins in 2017:

Martavis, 176 targets, 100/1,368/9

Hopkins,  174, 96/1,378/13

For sure not saying he's as good as Hopkins and life as the #1 WR on the Texans vs life as the #2 or #3 WR on the Steelers provides incredibly different looks, plus the QB situations. Just pointing on that on a per target basis he's shown to be highly productive and again based on what he did in 2015 I think he's also shown ability to continue to continue to excel in a higher target capacity.

Ahhhhhmmmm, then why compare their numbers. Hopkins caught passes from Crubs who couldn’t start for the Women’s 7 on 7 football league. Bryant played with the best WR and RB and Top 5 maybe top 3 QB in the NFL.

This is not even close! On a “Per target baddid” is cherry picking when he can’t even stay on the field for a complete season. Geez

Tex

 

[metoo]

Sure, Robby has the track record and at WR42, he is worth a flyer. However, there are guys around him I like better. Enunwa is WR80 and I think there is a strong chance he gets more targets than Anderson. Anderson caught 63 for 941 and 7 in 2017. The year prior Enunwa caught 58 for 857 and 4. It is not such a wide difference in production and there is always the question of how much of Andersons target volume was due to the loss of Enunwa. 

Teams knew he was the only WR and he put up numbers. If he was drafted in the first few rounds and put up his numbers would he be drafted this low? I'm going for the ceiling.

 

[Ilov80s]

Teams knew he was the only WR and he put up numbers. If he was drafted in the first few rounds and put up his numbers would he be drafted this low? I'm going for the ceiling.

True there wasn’t much else in that offense that threatened anyone. There’s no doubt if Doctson or John Ross had 900 and 7, there would be a ton of hype right now for them and they would be going in pretty early in drafts.