Tucker agrees with Walsh: Patriots practiced with IR players (1 Viewer)

[Mr. PadresLakers]

Tucker agrees with Walsh: Patriots practiced with IR players

ESPN.com news services

Ross Tucker, a former offensive lineman who played for five teams in a seven-year NFL career, reiterated Thursday that he believes that New England used players on the injured reserve list in practices, which violates league rules.

Former Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh, in a meeting with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell last week, said that a Patriots player on injured reserve practiced when he wasn't allowed to in 2001. The NFL said it would investigate the claim.

Tucker continued to contend the Patriots used injured players illegally during an interview on ESPN's "NFL Live." He first wrote about it last week on SI.com.

Tucker told "NFL Live" that Patriots coach Bill Belichick will do anything he can "to get an advantage." He also added that using a player on injured reserve in practice was of "minimal" benefit.

Last Friday, in an article published on SI.com, Tucker wrote that: "I had heard the Patriots did this before I signed with them in 2005 and I saw it firsthand during my time there. I asked veteran receiver Troy Brown about it one time and he responded, 'Every team in the league does that.' I quickly let him know none of the three teams I played for previously had done so.

"Basically, the Patriots would put a player on IR, knowing it meant he couldn't play in a game or practice with the team for the remainder of the season. By skirting the rules and practicing him anyway, it allowed them to develop his skills during the year. A side benefit is that they were also able to give some of the older players less repetitions and, therefore, additional rest."

Tucker played with Washington, Dallas, Buffalo, New England and Cleveland during his career. He currently writes for SI.com and hosts a show on Sirius satellite radio.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3408450

 

[Interseptopus]

It's clear BB will go at any lengths to get an edge, this doesn't surprise me one bit.

Tucker said that they would have people as "look outs" to look out for NFL officials so they could get the player soff the field.

"I misinterpreted the rules" doesn't fly here Bill

 

[Pat Patriot]

Tucker agrees with Walsh: Patriots practiced with IR players

ESPN.com news services

Ross Tucker, a former offensive lineman who played for five teams in a seven-year NFL career, reiterated Thursday that he believes that New England used players on the injured reserve list in practices, which violates league rules.

Former Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh, in a meeting with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell last week, said that a Patriots player on injured reserve practiced when he wasn't allowed to in 2001. The NFL said it would investigate the claim.

Tucker continued to contend the Patriots used injured players illegally during an interview on ESPN's "NFL Live." He first wrote about it last week on SI.com.

Tucker told "NFL Live" that Patriots coach Bill Belichick will do anything he can "to get an advantage." He also added that using a player on injured reserve in practice was of "minimal" benefit.

Last Friday, in an article published on SI.com, Tucker wrote that: "I had heard the Patriots did this before I signed with them in 2005 and I saw it firsthand during my time there. I asked veteran receiver Troy Brown about it one time and he responded, 'Every team in the league does that.' I quickly let him know none of the three teams I played for previously had done so.

"Basically, the Patriots would put a player on IR, knowing it meant he couldn't play in a game or practice with the team for the remainder of the season. By skirting the rules and practicing him anyway, it allowed them to develop his skills during the year. A side benefit is that they were also able to give some of the older players less repetitions and, therefore, additional rest."

Tucker played with Washington, Dallas, Buffalo, New England and Cleveland during his career. He currently writes for SI.com and hosts a show on Sirius satellite radio.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3408450

And this is a big deal why?

 

[brednbuddah]

mods, please. end this crap.

 

[Norseman]

mods, please. end this crap.

How are the mods supposed to end New Englands cheating?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Tucker agrees with Walsh: Patriots practiced with IR players

ESPN.com news services

Ross Tucker, a former offensive lineman who played for five teams in a seven-year NFL career, reiterated Thursday that he believes that New England used players on the injured reserve list in practices, which violates league rules.

Former Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh, in a meeting with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell last week, said that a Patriots player on injured reserve practiced when he wasn't allowed to in 2001. The NFL said it would investigate the claim.

Tucker continued to contend the Patriots used injured players illegally during an interview on ESPN's "NFL Live." He first wrote about it last week on SI.com.

Tucker told "NFL Live" that Patriots coach Bill Belichick will do anything he can "to get an advantage." He also added that using a player on injured reserve in practice was of "minimal" benefit.

Last Friday, in an article published on SI.com, Tucker wrote that: "I had heard the Patriots did this before I signed with them in 2005 and I saw it firsthand during my time there. I asked veteran receiver Troy Brown about it one time and he responded, 'Every team in the league does that.' I quickly let him know none of the three teams I played for previously had done so.

"Basically, the Patriots would put a player on IR, knowing it meant he couldn't play in a game or practice with the team for the remainder of the season. By skirting the rules and practicing him anyway, it allowed them to develop his skills during the year. A side benefit is that they were also able to give some of the older players less repetitions and, therefore, additional rest."

Tucker played with Washington, Dallas, Buffalo, New England and Cleveland during his career. He currently writes for SI.com and hosts a show on Sirius satellite radio.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3408450

And this is a big deal why?

You have a draftee who is in the 5th, 6th, 7th (or even one slow to develop)... you protect him from being grabed in free agency, you protect him from being taken from the developmental squad. You also allow your 53 man roster not to have these developmental players and can keep players who play, not players who learn. Then you have them practice anyway. Now you have a bigger roster then every other team in the league. You are likely IRing players who arent even hurt as well.Massive cheaters. Bill abusing the injury system has been known, this however, is more verified flat out cheating.

 

[brednbuddah]

mods, please. end this crap.

How are the mods supposed to end New Englands cheating?

wake up son, they all cheat...

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

mods, please. end this crap.

How are the mods supposed to end New Englands cheating?

wake up son, they all cheat...

All I'm hearing is the Patriots. Is there something on ESPN about another team cheating? Hell, if this was college NE would get the death penalty.

 

[T Bell]

Tucker agrees with Walsh: Patriots practiced with IR players

ESPN.com news services

Ross Tucker, a former offensive lineman who played for five teams in a seven-year NFL career, reiterated Thursday that he believes that New England used players on the injured reserve list in practices, which violates league rules.

Former Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh, in a meeting with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell last week, said that a Patriots player on injured reserve practiced when he wasn't allowed to in 2001. The NFL said it would investigate the claim.

Tucker continued to contend the Patriots used injured players illegally during an interview on ESPN's "NFL Live." He first wrote about it last week on SI.com.

Tucker told "NFL Live" that Patriots coach Bill Belichick will do anything he can "to get an advantage." He also added that using a player on injured reserve in practice was of "minimal" benefit.

Last Friday, in an article published on SI.com, Tucker wrote that: "I had heard the Patriots did this before I signed with them in 2005 and I saw it firsthand during my time there. I asked veteran receiver Troy Brown about it one time and he responded, 'Every team in the league does that.' I quickly let him know none of the three teams I played for previously had done so.

"Basically, the Patriots would put a player on IR, knowing it meant he couldn't play in a game or practice with the team for the remainder of the season. By skirting the rules and practicing him anyway, it allowed them to develop his skills during the year. A side benefit is that they were also able to give some of the older players less repetitions and, therefore, additional rest."

Tucker played with Washington, Dallas, Buffalo, New England and Cleveland during his career. He currently writes for SI.com and hosts a show on Sirius satellite radio.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3408450

And this is a big deal why?

Patriots fans don't think the rules are important. Gotcha.

 

[brednbuddah]

mods, please. end this crap.

How are the mods supposed to end New Englands cheating?

wake up son, they all cheat...

All I'm hearing is the Patriots. Is there something on ESPN about another team cheating? Hell, if this was college NE would get the death penalty.

dude, it's just like drinking and driving. everybody does it, NE just got caught.

 

[greenroom]

mods, please. end this crap.

How are the mods supposed to end New Englands cheating?

wake up son, they all cheat...

Dad, can you show me where any other team is cheating like NE???

 

[BigSteelThrill]

mods, please. end this crap.

How are the mods supposed to end New Englands cheating?

wake up son, they all cheat...

All I'm hearing is the Patriots. Is there something on ESPN about another team cheating? Hell, if this was college NE would get the death penalty.

dude, it's just like drinking and driving. everybody does it, NE just got caught.

No. Not everybody does it.

 

[phthalatemagic]

And this is a big deal why?

mods, please. end this crap.

How are the mods supposed to end New Englands cheating?

wake up son, they all cheat...

All I'm hearing is the Patriots. Is there something on ESPN about another team cheating? Hell, if this was college NE would get the death penalty.

dude, it's just like drinking and driving. everybody does it, NE just got caught.

Why do NE fans have such an aversion to integrity?

 

[brednbuddah]

And this is a big deal why?

mods, please. end this crap.

How are the mods supposed to end New Englands cheating?

wake up son, they all cheat...

All I'm hearing is the Patriots. Is there something on ESPN about another team cheating? Hell, if this was college NE would get the death penalty.

dude, it's just like drinking and driving. everybody does it, NE just got caught.

Why do NE fans have such an aversion to integrity?

I'M A JETS FAN!

 

[brednbuddah]

Tucker agrees with Walsh: Patriots practiced with IR players

ESPN.com news services

Tucker played with Washington, Dallas, Buffalo, New England and Cleveland during his career. He currently writes for SI.com and hosts a show on Sirius satellite radio.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3408450

MOTIVE:translation = ok, I bounced around from team to team and made no money during my NFL career so I have to resort to a stunt like this to get people to read my articles and listen to my radio show so I can pay the bills.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

mods, please. end this crap.

How are the mods supposed to end New Englands cheating?

wake up son, they all cheat...

Evidently you missed this part of the article.

Last Friday, in an article published on SI.com, Tucker wrote that: "I had heard the Patriots did this before I signed with them in 2005 and I saw it firsthand during my time there. I asked veteran receiver Troy Brown about it one time and he responded, 'Every team in the league does that.' I quickly let him know none of the three teams I played for previously had done so.

 

[brednbuddah]

mods, please. end this crap.

How are the mods supposed to end New Englands cheating?

wake up son, they all cheat...

Evidently you missed this part of the article.

Last Friday, in an article published on SI.com, Tucker wrote that: "I had heard the Patriots did this before I signed with them in 2005 and I saw it firsthand during my time there. I asked veteran receiver Troy Brown about it one time and he responded, 'Every team in the league does that.' I quickly let him know none of the three teams I played for previously had done so.

Evidently, you missed post #15

 

[fatness]

mods, please. end this crap.

How are the mods supposed to end New Englands cheating?

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

And this is a big deal why?

mods, please. end this crap.

How are the mods supposed to end New Englands cheating?

wake up son, they all cheat...

All I'm hearing is the Patriots. Is there something on ESPN about another team cheating? Hell, if this was college NE would get the death penalty.

dude, it's just like drinking and driving. everybody does it, NE just got caught.

Why do NE fans have such an aversion to integrity?

I'M A JETS FAN!

....and a closet NE fan

 

[brednbuddah]

And this is a big deal why?

mods, please. end this crap.

How are the mods supposed to end New Englands cheating?

wake up son, they all cheat...

All I'm hearing is the Patriots. Is there something on ESPN about another team cheating? Hell, if this was college NE would get the death penalty.

dude, it's just like drinking and driving. everybody does it, NE just got caught.

Why do NE fans have such an aversion to integrity?

I'M A JETS FAN!

....and a closet NE fan

 

[AB in DC]

Last Friday, in an article published on SI.com, Tucker wrote that: "I had heard the Patriots did this before I signed with them in 2005 and I saw it firsthand during my time there. I asked veteran receiver Troy Brown about it one time and he responded, 'Every team in the league does that.' I quickly let him know none of the three teams I played for previously had done so.

And this is a big deal why?

You have a draftee who is in the 5th, 6th, 7th (or even one slow to develop)...

Dude, Troy Brown is a 15 year veteran, not a young draftee.

 

[jonessed]

I don't think it's a big shock to anyone that BB has no integrity. At this point nothing out of that organization would surprise me.

 

[AB in DC]

Troy Brown: "Everyone does this"

Ross Tucker: "Not everyone does this"

FBG posters: "Even though I have absolutely zero first-hand knowledge about the situation, it's an absolute fact that Tucker is telling the truth and Brown is a evil dirty cheating liar."

 

[brednbuddah]

Troy Brown: "Everyone does this"Ross Tucker: "Not everyone does this"FBG posters: "Even though I have absolutely zero first-hand knowledge about the situation, it's an absolute fact that Tucker is telling the truth and Brown is a evil dirty cheating liar."

thank you. (see post #15)

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Troy Brown: "Everyone does this"Ross Tucker: "Not everyone does this"FBG posters: "Even though I have absolutely zero first-hand knowledge about the situation, it's an absolute fact that Tucker is telling the truth and Brown is a evil dirty cheating liar."

Even if Brown is right...aren't the Patriots still guilty? So either the Patriots cheated and other teams don't do it, or the Patriots cheated and "everyone does this." Either way the Patriots cheated. Do I have that right?

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

mods, please. end this crap.

How are the mods supposed to end New Englands cheating?

wake up son, they all cheat...

Evidently you missed this part of the article.

Last Friday, in an article published on SI.com, Tucker wrote that: "I had heard the Patriots did this before I signed with them in 2005 and I saw it firsthand during my time there. I asked veteran receiver Troy Brown about it one time and he responded, 'Every team in the league does that.' I quickly let him know none of the three teams I played for previously had done so.

Evidently, you missed post #15

Um, no, I didn't. I read post #15 - it lacked any importance.Do you believe the other 3 teams Tucker was on broke this rule?

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

Troy Brown: "Everyone does this"Ross Tucker: "Not everyone does this"FBG posters: "Even though I have absolutely zero first-hand knowledge about the situation, it's an absolute fact that Tucker is telling the truth and Brown is a evil dirty cheating liar."

thank you. (see post #15)

And how many teams had Troy Brown been on recently, when he made that statement to Tucker? Who had the better basis for comparison? Oh yeah, Tucker.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

Troy Brown: "Everyone does this"Ross Tucker: "Not everyone does this"FBG posters: "Even though I have absolutely zero first-hand knowledge about the situation, it's an absolute fact that Tucker is telling the truth and Brown is a evil dirty cheating liar."

Even if Brown is right...aren't the Patriots still guilty? So either the Patriots cheated and other teams don't do it, or the Patriots cheated and "everyone does this." Either way the Patriots cheated. Do I have that right?

C'mon Neil, get with the program. It's not cheating if everyone else is doing it. [not that everyone else WAS doing it - in fact, at least 3 teams weren't]

 

[Big_Russel]

And this is a big deal why?

mods, please. end this crap.

How are the mods supposed to end New Englands cheating?

wake up son, they all cheat...

All I'm hearing is the Patriots. Is there something on ESPN about another team cheating? Hell, if this was college NE would get the death penalty.

dude, it's just like drinking and driving. everybody does it, NE just got caught.

Why do NE fans have such an aversion to integrity?

I'M A JETS FAN!

....and a closet NE fan

Im a closet Belichick fan.

 

[dutch]

The way things used to be(maybe still are?):

Friday, October 29, 2004

Officials concerned with IR increase

By Len Pasquarelli

ESPN.com

DEARBORN, Mich. -- Never spar verbally with Paul Tagliabue, the part-time stand-up comic with a deadpan delivery reminiscent of Stephen Wright and, oh, yeah, a guy whose day job just happens to be serving as NFL commissioner.

Case in point: On Thursday, at the conclusion of a two-day league owners meeting, a veteran reporter who certainly should have known better (think: yours truly), suggested to The Commish that this season represented an anomaly, with total injuries decreased but the number of players on injured reserve rolls significantly on the rise.

An anomaly, shot back the commissioner, as he then proceeded to remind the tiny media assemblage that it was nothing of the sort, since coaches have for years sought out inventive ways for keeping more players on the payroll.

Touché, Tags. My bad.

It was a point well made and, at a fall owners conclave typically devoid of headline news, one worth fleshing out a bit.

Despite public perception to the contrary, the raw numbers on injuries are actually down in 2004, noted Atlanta Falcons general manager Rich McKay, co-chairman of the NFL's super-influential competition committee. Injuries that have sidelined players for 14 days or more? Reduced. Injuries that have shelved players for at least 42 days? Lessened. In 10 of the 12 categories used by the league to track injuries, in fact, the numbers through the first seven weeks of this season have decreased from a year ago at the same juncture.

Yeah, we know, try telling that to Carolina Panthers general manager Marty Hurney and coach John Fox, whose top two tailbacks (Stephen Davis and DeShaun Foster) have been in the whirlpool more than in the lineup this season, and whose best wide receiver (Steve Smith) and defensive lineman (Kris Jenkins) are on injured reserve. Or to Green Bay's Mike Sherman, or Miami's Dave Wannstedt and Tampa Bay's Jon Gruden, or any other coach whose forward momentum has been impacted this season by injuries.

But it's true and the league, which admirably invests a lot of time and money annually in tracking injuries and seeking new safety measures to avoid the most catastrophic of them, has the data to prove it. Almost as intriguing as the decrease in injuries, though, was the second part of the equation, the rejoinder that injured reserve lists are suddenly bloated. Anomaly or not, that's a tidbit of interest, since the league has done a better job in the era of the salary cap of policing injured reserve excesses.

Time was, and you don't have to be too old to recall this, when it was in vogue to hide players with nothing more substantial than a hangnail or a stubbed toe on the league's injured reserve list. In "the day," as they say, the Bobby Beathard-Joe Gibbs tandem in Washington annually stowed away a promising young quarterback on injured reserve. Since just about everyone else in the NFL was hoarding players the same way, and with similarly dubious injuries, the protests were kept to a minimum.

Teams winked at each other and snickered at their shared cleverness, the league put its hands over its eyes, and lots of players clubs deemed too good to simply cut loose earned season-long paychecks for what amounted to redshirt years.

But the advent of the salary cap, the crackdown on injured reserve fraud precipitated by its constraints, and the fact so many teams mishandled the spending limit so poorly that they couldn't afford I.R. players anyway, dramatically reduced the injured reserve rolls. At least, it seems, until this season.

One high-ranking team official who attended the meetings here, but whose last name isn't McKay and who isn't as at ease speaking for attribution, even raised the NFL's despised five-letter word, stash, to describe this year's injured reserve high-jinx. In this official's estimation, the level of injured reserve excess isn't remotely close to what it was during the semi-regulated days of yore. But it does, he acknowledged, bear scrutiny.

"To an extent, some teams have brought back 'stashing,' yeah," he said. "Even with all the steps we've taken to avoid it, the tougher scrutiny, having to get guys by independent doctors and stuff, the art of 'stashing' is making a little bit of a comeback this year."

Make no mistake about it, "stashing" is a term from the past that Tagliabue and his top lieutenants don't want to see become a part of the modern-day NFL lexicon. It holds a kind of tawdry connotation, one that suggests duplicity, deceit and circumvention of the rules. And to invoke the term again is probably, truth be told, to overstate the current situation on injured reserve.

For the most part, after all, players on injured reserve are there with legitimate maladies. And for the most part, coaches would rather have those players on the field instead of in treatment. There is less malice aforethought now than in the past. Then again, as was hinted at the meetings here, there is also more sophistication when it comes to placing players on injured reserve.

And ironically, both Tagliabue and McKay allowed, one component of this year's rise in injured reserve lists is improved control of the salary cap around the league. More teams have available funds than in most seasons. There is, for a change, upgraded wiggle room and less cap squeeze. Those extra funds, in some cases, have permitted franchises to keep more players around on injured reserve.

In the past, many of those players would have been released outright, particularly if their injuries were of a relatively benign nature. Or many teams might have just reached injury settlements with the players and then sent them packing. But if there is sufficient salary cap room, and a coach feels a player can contribute to the team the following season, the player is dumped onto injured reserve and the club retains his rights.

"You've got situations, too, where a team might be really well-stocked at a position," McKay said. "And so instead of keeping an injured player at that position on the active roster, and have him take four or five weeks to rehabilitate, they'll 'I.R.' him. They figure they can get by at that position and still keep the injured player around for next year."

None of this, of course, is an outright affront to the NFL's injury rules. It might represent a slight bending of the guidelines, but there is nothing slight about the heightened number of players on injured reserve. As the commissioner noted: "I've never known a coach who wasn't trying to keep as many players around as he could."

This year, it seems, they've found a way to legitimize the old art of stashing.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

mods, please. end this crap.

How are the mods supposed to end New Englands cheating?

 

[twitch]

Dutch-

You should be ashamed of yourself. Actually providing an article that provides both insight as well as perspective. I swear. The lengths some people will go to. Obviously, jk. Nice find. Its a mad, mad world. Mixing in a little sanity once in a while seems fair enough.

 

[dutch]

Dutch-You should be ashamed of yourself. Actually providing an article that provides both insight as well as perspective. I swear. The lengths some people will go to. Obviously, jk. Nice find. Its a mad, mad world. Mixing in a little sanity once in a while seems fair enough.

Frankly, my remembrance of the Gibbs-Bethard tandem using the stash tactic made me chuckle at the outrage expressed over Bellicheck's alleged contravention of the same rules. Eh, you stretch til you find the breaking point if you want to win. If you always wait and allow others to find out what's allowed you'll find yourself continuously playing catchup, imo. Dallas, Denver, Washington...they all stand accused at one time or another and they all stand as champions during their heyday. It happens.

 

[top dog]

Last Friday, in an article published on SI.com, Tucker wrote that: "I had heard the Patriots did this before I signed with them in 2005 and I saw it firsthand during my time there. I asked veteran receiver Troy Brown about it one time and he responded, 'Every team in the league does that.' I quickly let him know none of the three teams I played for previously had done so.

And this is a big deal why?

You have a draftee who is in the 5th, 6th, 7th (or even one slow to develop)...

Dude, Troy Brown is a 15 year veteran, not a young draftee.

Pretty sure he wasn't refering to Troy Brown... I'm also pretty sure that the article didn't say Troy Brown was practicing while on the IR.

 

[pizzatyme]

And this is a big deal why?

mods, please. end this crap.

How are the mods supposed to end New Englands cheating?

wake up son, they all cheat...

All I'm hearing is the Patriots. Is there something on ESPN about another team cheating? Hell, if this was college NE would get the death penalty.

dude, it's just like drinking and driving. everybody does it, NE just got caught.

Why do NE fans have such an aversion to integrity?

I'M A JETS FAN!

....and a closet NE fan

I suspect there is a lot of that going on around here.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

Dutch-You should be ashamed of yourself. Actually providing an article that provides both insight as well as perspective. I swear. The lengths some people will go to. Obviously, jk. Nice find. Its a mad, mad world. Mixing in a little sanity once in a while seems fair enough.

It's an interesting article - but where does it say that the "stashed" players on the IR were practicing with the team? It seems a bit tangential to this discussion.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Dutch-You should be ashamed of yourself. Actually providing an article that provides both insight as well as perspective. I swear. The lengths some people will go to. Obviously, jk. Nice find. Its a mad, mad world. Mixing in a little sanity once in a while seems fair enough.

Frankly, my remembrance of the Gibbs-Bethard tandem using the stash tactic made me chuckle at the outrage expressed over Bellicheck's alleged contravention of the same rules. Eh, you stretch til you find the breaking point if you want to win. If you always wait and allow others to find out what's allowed you'll find yourself continuously playing catchup, imo. Dallas, Denver, Washington...they all stand accused at one time or another and they all stand as champions during their heyday. It happens.

Your article posting just made the "outraged" community look pretty stupid.Thank you.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

And this is a big deal why?

mods, please. end this crap.

How are the mods supposed to end New Englands cheating?

wake up son, they all cheat...

All I'm hearing is the Patriots. Is there something on ESPN about another team cheating? Hell, if this was college NE would get the death penalty.

dude, it's just like drinking and driving. everybody does it, NE just got caught.

Why do NE fans have such an aversion to integrity?

I'M A JETS FAN!

Ah sweet irony. This is definitely going in the "phthalatemagic" case file; lmao!!

 

[Snotbubbles]

The way things used to be(maybe still are?): Friday, October 29, 2004Officials concerned with IR increaseBy Len PasquarelliESPN.comDEARBORN, Mich. -- Never spar verbally with Paul Tagliabue, the part-time stand-up comic with a deadpan delivery reminiscent of Stephen Wright and, oh, yeah, a guy whose day job just happens to be serving as NFL commissioner.Case in point: On Thursday, at the conclusion of a two-day league owners meeting, a veteran reporter who certainly should have known better (think: yours truly), suggested to The Commish that this season represented an anomaly, with total injuries decreased but the number of players on injured reserve rolls significantly on the rise.An anomaly, shot back the commissioner, as he then proceeded to remind the tiny media assemblage that it was nothing of the sort, since coaches have for years sought out inventive ways for keeping more players on the payroll.Touché, Tags. My bad.It was a point well made and, at a fall owners conclave typically devoid of headline news, one worth fleshing out a bit.Despite public perception to the contrary, the raw numbers on injuries are actually down in 2004, noted Atlanta Falcons general manager Rich McKay, co-chairman of the NFL's super-influential competition committee. Injuries that have sidelined players for 14 days or more? Reduced. Injuries that have shelved players for at least 42 days? Lessened. In 10 of the 12 categories used by the league to track injuries, in fact, the numbers through the first seven weeks of this season have decreased from a year ago at the same juncture.Yeah, we know, try telling that to Carolina Panthers general manager Marty Hurney and coach John Fox, whose top two tailbacks (Stephen Davis and DeShaun Foster) have been in the whirlpool more than in the lineup this season, and whose best wide receiver (Steve Smith) and defensive lineman (Kris Jenkins) are on injured reserve. Or to Green Bay's Mike Sherman, or Miami's Dave Wannstedt and Tampa Bay's Jon Gruden, or any other coach whose forward momentum has been impacted this season by injuries.But it's true and the league, which admirably invests a lot of time and money annually in tracking injuries and seeking new safety measures to avoid the most catastrophic of them, has the data to prove it. Almost as intriguing as the decrease in injuries, though, was the second part of the equation, the rejoinder that injured reserve lists are suddenly bloated. Anomaly or not, that's a tidbit of interest, since the league has done a better job in the era of the salary cap of policing injured reserve excesses.Time was, and you don't have to be too old to recall this, when it was in vogue to hide players with nothing more substantial than a hangnail or a stubbed toe on the league's injured reserve list. In "the day," as they say, the Bobby Beathard-Joe Gibbs tandem in Washington annually stowed away a promising young quarterback on injured reserve. Since just about everyone else in the NFL was hoarding players the same way, and with similarly dubious injuries, the protests were kept to a minimum.Teams winked at each other and snickered at their shared cleverness, the league put its hands over its eyes, and lots of players clubs deemed too good to simply cut loose earned season-long paychecks for what amounted to redshirt years.But the advent of the salary cap, the crackdown on injured reserve fraud precipitated by its constraints, and the fact so many teams mishandled the spending limit so poorly that they couldn't afford I.R. players anyway, dramatically reduced the injured reserve rolls. At least, it seems, until this season.One high-ranking team official who attended the meetings here, but whose last name isn't McKay and who isn't as at ease speaking for attribution, even raised the NFL's despised five-letter word, stash, to describe this year's injured reserve high-jinx. In this official's estimation, the level of injured reserve excess isn't remotely close to what it was during the semi-regulated days of yore. But it does, he acknowledged, bear scrutiny."To an extent, some teams have brought back 'stashing,' yeah," he said. "Even with all the steps we've taken to avoid it, the tougher scrutiny, having to get guys by independent doctors and stuff, the art of 'stashing' is making a little bit of a comeback this year."Make no mistake about it, "stashing" is a term from the past that Tagliabue and his top lieutenants don't want to see become a part of the modern-day NFL lexicon. It holds a kind of tawdry connotation, one that suggests duplicity, deceit and circumvention of the rules. And to invoke the term again is probably, truth be told, to overstate the current situation on injured reserve.For the most part, after all, players on injured reserve are there with legitimate maladies. And for the most part, coaches would rather have those players on the field instead of in treatment. There is less malice aforethought now than in the past. Then again, as was hinted at the meetings here, there is also more sophistication when it comes to placing players on injured reserve.And ironically, both Tagliabue and McKay allowed, one component of this year's rise in injured reserve lists is improved control of the salary cap around the league. More teams have available funds than in most seasons. There is, for a change, upgraded wiggle room and less cap squeeze. Those extra funds, in some cases, have permitted franchises to keep more players around on injured reserve.In the past, many of those players would have been released outright, particularly if their injuries were of a relatively benign nature. Or many teams might have just reached injury settlements with the players and then sent them packing. But if there is sufficient salary cap room, and a coach feels a player can contribute to the team the following season, the player is dumped onto injured reserve and the club retains his rights."You've got situations, too, where a team might be really well-stocked at a position," McKay said. "And so instead of keeping an injured player at that position on the active roster, and have him take four or five weeks to rehabilitate, they'll 'I.R.' him. They figure they can get by at that position and still keep the injured player around for next year."None of this, of course, is an outright affront to the NFL's injury rules. It might represent a slight bending of the guidelines, but there is nothing slight about the heightened number of players on injured reserve. As the commissioner noted: "I've never known a coach who wasn't trying to keep as many players around as he could."This year, it seems, they've found a way to legitimize the old art of stashing.

Apparently the league doesn't think there is anything wrong with IRing a player to "stash" him away. There is however, something wrong when you practice those IR'd players. Therein lies the problem.

 

[brednbuddah]

mods, please. end this crap.

How are the mods supposed to end New Englands cheating?

wake up son, they all cheat...

Evidently you missed this part of the article.

Last Friday, in an article published on SI.com, Tucker wrote that: "I had heard the Patriots did this before I signed with them in 2005 and I saw it firsthand during my time there. I asked veteran receiver Troy Brown about it one time and he responded, 'Every team in the league does that.' I quickly let him know none of the three teams I played for previously had done so.

Evidently, you missed post #15

Um, no, I didn't. I read post #15 - it lacked any importance.Do you believe the other 3 teams Tucker was on broke this rule?

this entire thread lacks any importance.if you think there isn't some level of cheating in the NFL by all teams, you're foolish. oh, and by the way, there's no such thing as santa claus.

J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

mods, please. end this crap.

How are the mods supposed to end New Englands cheating?

wake up son, they all cheat...

Evidently you missed this part of the article.

Last Friday, in an article published on SI.com, Tucker wrote that: "I had heard the Patriots did this before I signed with them in 2005 and I saw it firsthand during my time there. I asked veteran receiver Troy Brown about it one time and he responded, 'Every team in the league does that.' I quickly let him know none of the three teams I played for previously had done so.

Evidently, you missed post #15

Um, no, I didn't. I read post #15 - it lacked any importance.Do you believe the other 3 teams Tucker was on broke this rule?

this entire thread lacks any importance.if you think there isn't some level of cheating in the NFL by all teams, you're foolish. oh, and by the way, there's no such thing as santa claus.

J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS

You're no more of a Jets fan than I am, and by the way, there is a Santa Claus. My mommy told me so.

 

[Yitbos69]

Bill Belichick is a cheater...whats new here?

 

[poopdawg]

Troy Brown: "Everyone does this"Ross Tucker: "Not everyone does this"FBG posters: "Even though I have absolutely zero first-hand knowledge about the situation, it's an absolute fact that Tucker is telling the truth and Brown is a evil dirty cheating liar."

Using simple logic, Brown would have to know that EVERY team does it. For Tucker to be correct, he would have to know that just ONE team DOES NOT do it. I will give Tucker the benefit of the doubt on this one.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Troy Brown: "Everyone does this"Ross Tucker: "Not everyone does this"FBG posters: "Even though I have absolutely zero first-hand knowledge about the situation, it's an absolute fact that Tucker is telling the truth and Brown is a evil dirty cheating liar."

 

[msommer]

Troy Brown: "Everyone does this"Ross Tucker: "Not everyone does this"FBG posters: "Even though I have absolutely zero first-hand knowledge about the situation, it's an absolute fact that Tucker is telling the truth and Brown is a evil dirty cheating liar."

Using simple logic, Brown would have to know that EVERY team does it. For Tucker to be correct, he would have to know that just ONE team DOES NOT do it. I will give Tucker the benefit of the doubt on this one.

Easy now, grasshopper Logic plays no part in a discussion about NE and cheating. Emotion does. In spades...

 

[sho nuff]

Troy Brown: "Everyone does this"Ross Tucker: "Not everyone does this"FBG posters: "Even though I have absolutely zero first-hand knowledge about the situation, it's an absolute fact that Tucker is telling the truth and Brown is a evil dirty cheating liar."

Where has one single person done this?You know how it goes here...we always assume the guilt when this stuff comes out...but its also comes with the "if this is true" preface to it (even when not mentioned, its generally implied).So...if this is true...it is a bit more added to the pile of what BB will do to try and gain any advantage he can...rules be damned.

 

[sho nuff]

Dutch-You should be ashamed of yourself. Actually providing an article that provides both insight as well as perspective. I swear. The lengths some people will go to. Obviously, jk. Nice find. Its a mad, mad world. Mixing in a little sanity once in a while seems fair enough.

Though...pretty irrelevant as nothing about those players being "stashed" were practicing.Stashing was not what the latest NE stuff was about...it was about them being stashed...and then still practicing.

 

[sho nuff]

Dutch-You should be ashamed of yourself. Actually providing an article that provides both insight as well as perspective. I swear. The lengths some people will go to. Obviously, jk. Nice find. Its a mad, mad world. Mixing in a little sanity once in a while seems fair enough.

Frankly, my remembrance of the Gibbs-Bethard tandem using the stash tactic made me chuckle at the outrage expressed over Bellicheck's alleged contravention of the same rules. Eh, you stretch til you find the breaking point if you want to win. If you always wait and allow others to find out what's allowed you'll find yourself continuously playing catchup, imo. Dallas, Denver, Washington...they all stand accused at one time or another and they all stand as champions during their heyday. It happens.

Your article posting just made the "outraged" community look pretty stupid.Thank you.

How so...were was the talk of practicing in that article.Typical pats apologist.

 

[T Bell]

Tucker agrees with Walsh: Patriots practiced with IR players

ESPN.com news services

Tucker played with Washington, Dallas, Buffalo, New England and Cleveland during his career. He currently writes for SI.com and hosts a show on Sirius satellite radio.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3408450

MOTIVE:translation = ok, I bounced around from team to team and made no money during my NFL career so I have to resort to a stunt like this to get people to read my articles and listen to my radio show so I can pay the bills.

Sure. It's just like drunk driving. Everyone does it.