Two Starting QBs (1 Viewer)

[Chairshot]

Looking for a little insight.

I am a commish of a 12 team league in it's second season. The core group of owners is pretty solid and while it is a money league, the main point of the league is fun. Everyone takes it seriously, but no one flips out over anything, at least not yet.

I've had at least 6 owners come to me about changing the league to 2 starting QBs. I'm open the idea but I'm not sure how it will impact the draft, starting rosters, the waiver wire, etc. I was in a league a couple years ago that had 2 starting QBs but that was a 10 team league.

So, I don't mind the idea, but I'm worried that it might create scenerios where people have trouble getting 2 legit starting QBs on their roster each week. If you have an injury and or a bye week happen at the same time, you really might be screwed. I like the idea of adding a wrinkle to the league that makes it different from other leagues, but I don't want it to be where games are potentially heavily impacted because of not being able to field a legit starting roster each week.

Anyone have any experience with a league like this? Anyone see pros or cons about giving this idea a shot? Any feedback is appreciated.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I've played in 2QB leagues, was always quite fun. QBs become just like RBs.

I would advise 1 per 25 yards passing as opposed to 20 yards, however.

There is an issue with QB depth in 12 teamers, but its never really a big issue.

It just becomes a point of emphasis for strategies and adds a bit of fun.

 

[bengalboy]

I have played in a keeper league that allows owners to start 2 QB's for several years now and I love it. It makes guys draft QBs way earlier than most leagues that go, RB, RB, RB all through the first two rounds of the draft.

Our league:

10 team league

Each team can keep 5 keepers

21 players on roster

9 starters - QB, QB, RB, RB, WR, WR, TE, K, D,

All TD's are 6 points - this really favors the QB's even more

Receptions for WRs - 2 points / RBs - 1 point

This type league has the advantage of placing even value on each of the three main positions: QB,RB, WR and allow a much more "even" draft. We see RBs, QBs and WRs all taken early in the draft. Nothing is more boring than having to select RB, RB, RB for the first 20 picks of a draft. I highly recommend a league that starts 2 QBs. Especially if you're lucky enough to have Carson Palmer (5th round) and Jon Kitna (8th round) as two of your keepers!

 

[MrJimiT]

I personally have only played in 10-team 2QB leagues, but a couple of seasons ago due to roster hording, injuries, QBBC, and the big bye weeks, we found a couple of teams in a quandry a couple of times. What we decided to do was enforce 1 start QB and then add a Super-Flex spot to the lineups. Almost all of the time it is a 2nd QB starting but in a pinch a 3rd RB may start or a 4th WR or even a 2nd Defense. I don't know if that's was you are looking for but it has worked out well for our league.

 

[Chaka]

I have played in a 12 team, 2QB league for 12 years now. We love it. Typically 3-4 QBs go in the 1st round, 6 total by the end of the 2nd, 11 by the 3rd and all NFL starters and a few backups get drafted. A total of between 41-43 QBs are drafted every year.

Someone started a thread on this last season and kept a tally of the number of QBs who start games over the course of an NFL season and it is usually between 45-50 players. Owners are forced to pay attention to the waiver wire and a few mid-season trades involving QBs are not uncommon.

The QB is the most important player on the field in the NFL and I like the fact that my league reflects that reality.

 

[Sake-Bombers]

Hey Chaka (or anyone else with experience in 12 team 2QB leagues),

What's been your experience during the bye weeks, especially last year when there were two weeks with six NFL teams on bye? My 10 team 2 QB league has been debating expanding to 12, but we won't do it for fear of lack of available QBs during NFL byes - we don't want teams starting players on bye or backups that may not even play.

Sorry if this is a bit of a hijack, but I actually think this is the biggest potential problem with a 12-team 2 QB league - the fact that in NFL bye weeks (and especially the super-byes), there's probably not enough QB3s to go around.

 

[Chaka]

Hey Chaka (or anyone else with experience in 12 team QB leagues),What's been your experience during the bye weeks, especially last year when there were two weeks with six NFL teams on bye? My 10 team 2 QB league has been debating expanding to 12, but we won't do it for fear of lack of available QBs during NFL byes - we don't want teams starting players on bye or backups that may not even play.Sorry if this is a bit of a hijack, but I actually think this is the biggest potential problem with a 12-team 2 QB league - the fact that in NFL bye weeks (and especially the super-byes), there's probably not enough QB3s to go around.

It makes focusing on bye weeks during the draft very important. You also must be active on the waiver wire, receptive to trades and/or be willing to play a week undermanned. In our 12 years we haven't had someone without a starting QB more than 6 times.

 

[Sake-Bombers]

Hey Chaka (or anyone else with experience in 12 team QB leagues),What's been your experience during the bye weeks, especially last year when there were two weeks with six NFL teams on bye? My 10 team 2 QB league has been debating expanding to 12, but we won't do it for fear of lack of available QBs during NFL byes - we don't want teams starting players on bye or backups that may not even play.Sorry if this is a bit of a hijack, but I actually think this is the biggest potential problem with a 12-team 2 QB league - the fact that in NFL bye weeks (and especially the super-byes), there's probably not enough QB3s to go around.

It makes focusing on bye weeks during the draft very important. You also must be active on the waiver wire, receptive to trades and/or be willing to play a week undermanned. In our 12 years we haven't had someone without a starting QB more than 6 times.

Thanks for the info. Seems like you still run the risk of a skewed competitive balance, or teams "hoarding" QBs if they had roster spots and their opponent was in need of it, but I guess since everyone is playing with the same rules, it just makes planning that much more important, like you said.So yeah, to the OP, that would be my one concern - making sure that everyone is aware of the ramifications on their backup QB spot.

 

[T Man]

I have played in both 2QB leagues and 1QB leagues. My preference in 2QB leagues because the QB becomes as valuable as RBs. When we added PPR, it made WRs as valuable too.

2 QB leagues help limit the drafting of 2RBs immediately by all teams. Thought has to go into the drafting process.

The problem some people have had with 2QB leagues is that unlike RBs there are only 32 starting QBs. There is no QBBC during a game. As such, in 12 team leagues there are not enough QBs for fill in during bye weeks. (Of course, I think that just adds to the strategy).

In ten team leagues there has been an issue of QB hording. Some teams want 4QBs to protect against injury. Thus, there is still the issue of having too little QBs. And, once a QB goes down, the trade value of a QB on someone else's bench increases. It is almost impossible to trade for a starting QB in a 2 QB league -- and, if you do, you certainly will have to overpay to get the likes of Charlie Frye, etc. (Again, part of the strategy of drafting - since you have every opportunity to pick a 3rd and 4th QB instead of that 5th RB or 6th WR).

In short, usually only 32 QBs see action each week. Because of RBBCs, as much as 40 RBs play (and even more see at least limited action). And, it is usually far better to pick up that 2nd string RB on the waiver wire due to injury then it is to pick up the 2nd string QB (although Huard filled in nicely for me last year).

 

[Chaka]

Hey Chaka (or anyone else with experience in 12 team QB leagues),What's been your experience during the bye weeks, especially last year when there were two weeks with six NFL teams on bye? My 10 team 2 QB league has been debating expanding to 12, but we won't do it for fear of lack of available QBs during NFL byes - we don't want teams starting players on bye or backups that may not even play.Sorry if this is a bit of a hijack, but I actually think this is the biggest potential problem with a 12-team 2 QB league - the fact that in NFL bye weeks (and especially the super-byes), there's probably not enough QB3s to go around.

It makes focusing on bye weeks during the draft very important. You also must be active on the waiver wire, receptive to trades and/or be willing to play a week undermanned. In our 12 years we haven't had someone without a starting QB more than 6 times.

Thanks for the info. Seems like you still run the risk of a skewed competitive balance, or teams "hoarding" QBs if they had roster spots and their opponent was in need of it, but I guess since everyone is playing with the same rules, it just makes planning that much more important, like you said.So yeah, to the OP, that would be my one concern - making sure that everyone is aware of the ramifications on their backup QB spot.

We limit roster spots to 3 QBs but a fourth QB can be carried in the flex position (only two can start), but if you want to sacrifice a 5th RB or WR for 4th QB on your roster that's okay in our league.

 

[snarfsnarf]

I've been in a 2QB league for a few years with 10 teams. While I liked it at first for taking the mega RB focus away, I think it reduced the amount of trading that was done in our league. Everyone was afraid to trade a QB because you never felt comfortable unless you had three solid starters, or even four. With 12 teams somebody's season will be over due to a injury due to a relatively mediocre player, but to someone who only has 2 solid starters.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

I just wrote the 2007 verson of 2QB or Not 2QB complete with a 12 team, 20 round mock.

It should be posted soon.

 

[Monkeyface Prickleback]

Looking for a little insight.

I am a commish of a 12 team league in it's second season. The core group of owners is pretty solid and while it is a money league, the main point of the league is fun. Everyone takes it seriously, but no one flips out over anything, at least not yet.

I've had at least 6 owners come to me about changing the league to 2 starting QBs. I'm open the idea but I'm not sure how it will impact the draft, starting rosters, the waiver wire, etc. I was in a league a couple years ago that had 2 starting QBs but that was a 10 team league.

So, I don't mind the idea, but I'm worried that it might create scenerios where people have trouble getting 2 legit starting QBs on their roster each week. If you have an injury and or a bye week happen at the same time, you really might be screwed. I like the idea of adding a wrinkle to the league that makes it different from other leagues, but I don't want it to be where games are potentially heavily impacted because of not being able to field a legit starting roster each week.

Anyone have any experience with a league like this? Anyone see pros or cons about giving this idea a shot? Any feedback is appreciated.

Exact same concerns --so here's what we did:1 QB

2 RB

3 WR

1 FLEX (for above positions only)

1 TE

1 K

1 D

This really is a two QB system however, because scoring (on purpose) is huge for QB's. 1pt per 20 yards, 6 pt Tds. It behooves owners to start that 2nd QB as they outscore other positions by a lot. The only real reason for flex in this case is to allow owners some slack when they are caught. Some owners don't want to have to always be on top of every little thing, and that's fine. They have nothing to whine about. So they can start a 3rd RB or 4th WR, but it will cost them, which is also a perfect way to get them to pay more attention.

And since the scoring is relative to each position, the fact QB's score more means next to nothing.

 

[Monkeyface Prickleback]

I would appreciate it if some of you chimed in on my roster limit thread. This is EXACTLY what it's for -- a two QB league.

 

[bighandsray]

I run a 10 team league where we have flexible srarter requirements.

1qb

2 or 3 rb

2 or 3 wr (5 total rb and wr combined also TE count as wr)

1k

1def

1 flex any position

Most start qb as flex but when bye weeks come up you can fill in with extra def's or extra rb or wr.

Flexibility of rosters in our league reduces value of rb's so their is more balance. I think the flexibility also makes the draft more fun as you can be more creative. Most people don't start 2 def everyweek but with the balance in our scoring system you can be very sucessful with alternate strategies.

 

[flranger]

The easy solution is an ultimate flex (any position)

We require:

QB

RB2

WR3

TE

K

DEF

With the flex you can do anything. It nomally would be a QB due to increased scoring, but allows teams who have a specific area stacked to play anything. I've even seen two DEF played at the same time. It's a perfect setup in our opinion, and no way we could ever get rid of it.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

FWIW, a flex position that includes a QB is called "superflex".

 

[BigSteelThrill]

FWIW, a flex position that includes a QB is called "superflex".

Just like a 3rd round reversal is called the "Banzai Method".

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

FWIW, a flex position that includes a QB is called "superflex".

Just like a 3rd round reversal is called the "Banzai Method".

Where did that term come from?some other leagues aren't agreeing with this 3RR/3RS stuff (as you might expect)

 

[BigSteelThrill]

FWIW, a flex position that includes a QB is called "superflex".

Just like a 3rd round reversal is called the "Banzai Method".

Where did that term come from?some other leagues aren't agreeing with this 3RR/3RS stuff (as you might expect)

From the first league to do it. It being the reversing only the 3rd round of an otherwise normal serpentine.

 

[-OZ-]

The easy solution is an ultimate flex (any position)We require:QBRB2WR3TEKDEFWith the flex you can do anything. It nomally would be a QB due to increased scoring, but allows teams who have a specific area stacked to play anything. I've even seen two DEF played at the same time. It's a perfect setup in our opinion, and no way we could ever get rid of it.

love this setup. I know others hate it, but it serves the purpose of encouraging 2 QBs while not overvaluing them or destroying a team who gets unlucky in that area. We didn't use DEF as the flex, but it was an IDP league. More leagues should utilize "SUPERflex"

 

[Chaka]

I would appreciate it if some of you chimed in on my roster limit thread. This is EXACTLY what it's for -- a two QB league.

Ours is 12 teams, 16 man rosters 3QBs, 4RBs, 4WRs, 2K, 2D, 1 Flex any position.Starters 2QBs, 2RBs, 2WRs, 1K, 1D 1 flex (NO QB!).ETA: The small roster size helps in this type of league because it makes it difficult to find space for a 4th QB when a tempting RB is available on the waiver wire.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

FWIW, a flex position that includes a QB is called "superflex".

Just like a 3rd round reversal is called the "Banzai Method".

Where did that term come from?some other leagues aren't agreeing with this 3RR/3RS stuff (as you might expect)

From the first league to do it. It being the reversing only the 3rd round of an otherwise normal serpentine.

Link?I may be the keeper of 3RR / 3 RS history soon

 

[BigSteelThrill]

FWIW, a flex position that includes a QB is called "superflex".

Just like a 3rd round reversal is called the "Banzai Method".

Where did that term come from?some other leagues aren't agreeing with this 3RR/3RS stuff (as you might expect)

From the first league to do it. It being the reversing only the 3rd round of an otherwise normal serpentine.

Link?I may be the keeper of 3RR / 3 RS history soon

Let me see if I can track it down. Was in a big money ($1k + moves/losses) league in Cali in the 90's.

Also used in smaller leagues as a result, from those that had connections.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

FWIW, a flex position that includes a QB is called "superflex".

Just like a 3rd round reversal is called the "Banzai Method".

Where did that term come from?some other leagues aren't agreeing with this 3RR/3RS stuff (as you might expect)

From the first league to do it. It being the reversing only the 3rd round of an otherwise normal serpentine.

Link?I may be the keeper of 3RR / 3 RS history soon

Let me see if I can track it down. Was in a big money ($1k + moves/losses) league in Cali in the 90's.

Also used in smaller leagues as a result, from those that had connections.

TIA

 

[Chairshot]

Thanks for all the responses, guys.

I'm thinking what we might do is set the starting rosters this way:

1 QB

2 RB

2 WR

1 TE

1 K

1 D

1 QB/WR

6 bench spots

This way, if somoene gets in a bind they can always start a WR off the bench/waiver wire, while the clear preference is still to start a QB over a 3rd WR.

I've set the draft day limit on QBs to 3. After the draft I'll expand it to 4 max QBs. That way, everyone gets a fair crack at the QBs on draft day but can look for their insurance (or their flyers) on the waiver wire.

Has anyone tried a QB/WR flex spot? I'm a little tenative to make it a true superflex because I think it will cause just lower the value of QBs back to a regular 1 QB, 2 RB setup.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Has anyone tried a QB/WR flex spot? I'm a little tenative to make it a true superflex because I think it will cause just lower the value of QBs back to a regular 1 QB, 2 RB setup.

Take a look at your scoring.I seriously doubt that a RB3 would score better than a QB2. QB2s would still be preferred. RB3 would only be a bye week option - and even then it wouldn't be preferable over a good QB.

 

[Chairshot]

Has anyone tried a QB/WR flex spot? I'm a little tenative to make it a true superflex because I think it will cause just lower the value of QBs back to a regular 1 QB, 2 RB setup.

Take a look at your scoring.I seriously doubt that a RB3 would score better than a QB2. QB2s would still be preferred. RB3 would only be a bye week option - and even then it wouldn't be preferable over a good QB.

I hear what you are saying. I guess my main concern is really about draft day. With a super flex spot, wouldn't people just load up on RBs right out of the box? Maybe this isn't a bad thing and I'm concerned over nothing.The goal of the league is to be a fun, interesting league with a couple bucks on the line. I'm happy to make changes and add wrinkles to the scoring/rosters to make the league unique and fun. I just don't want to make a change and end up throwing the balance of the league off.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Has anyone tried a QB/WR flex spot? I'm a little tenative to make it a true superflex because I think it will cause just lower the value of QBs back to a regular 1 QB, 2 RB setup.

Take a look at your scoring.I seriously doubt that a RB3 would score better than a QB2. QB2s would still be preferred. RB3 would only be a bye week option - and even then it wouldn't be preferable over a good QB.

I hear what you are saying. I guess my main concern is really about draft day. With a super flex spot, wouldn't people just load up on RBs right out of the box? Maybe this isn't a bad thing and I'm concerned over nothing.The goal of the league is to be a fun, interesting league with a couple bucks on the line. I'm happy to make changes and add wrinkles to the scoring/rosters to make the league unique and fun. I just don't want to make a change and end up throwing the balance of the league off.

Superflex won't mess it up. If it is for fun, just point out what I said - QB2s outscore RB3s.

 

[sweetness34]

Has anyone tried a QB/WR flex spot? I'm a little tenative to make it a true superflex because I think it will cause just lower the value of QBs back to a regular 1 QB, 2 RB setup.

Take a look at your scoring.I seriously doubt that a RB3 would score better than a QB2. QB2s would still be preferred. RB3 would only be a bye week option - and even then it wouldn't be preferable over a good QB.

I hear what you are saying. I guess my main concern is really about draft day. With a super flex spot, wouldn't people just load up on RBs right out of the box? Maybe this isn't a bad thing and I'm concerned over nothing.The goal of the league is to be a fun, interesting league with a couple bucks on the line. I'm happy to make changes and add wrinkles to the scoring/rosters to make the league unique and fun. I just don't want to make a change and end up throwing the balance of the league off.

We use a QB/RB/WR flex with 2 flex spots (though the flex can't be at the same position). Our starting lineup is 1/1/2/1/1/1 w/PPR for WR/TE and .5 PPR for RB. In our auction, it lets guys build their team how they want. And, contrary to popular opinion, I've done quite well in the league starting 3 (stud) WR's. I know this doesn't address your specific situation, but you can always get creative to make your league more fun.

 

[NinerK]

We have used a "superflex" for the last 2 years and it has increased the strategy involved in drafting.

1/2/2 min (no TE) and 1 superflex.

Before Superflex: Manning was the only QB taken in the first 2 rounds.

After Suyperflex: Mannin,Palmer and Brady all go within the first 2 rounds.

I like this format because you can choose to stack a position at the draft and either start the extra(s) QB/RB/WR or trade them to bolster a weak spot on your roster.

Not so big on the start min 2 qb format....