U.S. to shift Cuba policy, normalize relations (2 Viewers)

[QuizGuy66]

Cuban-American US Rep Albio Sires (D-NJ) has also come out against the deal. That makes Menendez (D), Diaz-Balart ®, Rubio ®, and Sires (D) all against the deal.

Any Cuban-American Congressmen for the deal?

Meanwhile, Republican Senator Marco Rubio slammed the deal as "inexplicable", adding that it did nothing to address the issues of Cuba's political system and human rights record.

Like we really care.

That was what Sires' (D-NJ) pointed out on NPR this morning too, basically stating that Cuban generals own all the businesses and factories and they will just get extra-mega-rich off of this besides already controlling all the best property anyway. Hey I agree let them put people in jail, tortured, aside from all the people Castro killed going back to the 60s, while these guys get rich, who cares. Hey let's hit la playa.

http://wbaa.org/post/rep-sires-pushes-back-against-obamas-cuba-plans

I meant that, when it comes to foreign policy/diplomatic relations/trade we really don't give a #### when it comes to "human rights records". We have a long and storied history of keep strange bed-fellows.

This... is true.

According to the U.S. State Department there are currently 3 countries we do not have diplomatic relations with: Bhutan, Iran, North Korea.

Why don't we have diplomatic relations with Bhutan? Was it the fact they wrote the lyrics to the Curley Shuffle?

was intrigued by this - basically the reason is b/c Bhutan is India's b*tch

-QG

 

[msommer]

I wonder what Cuba's policy towards the exile Cubans are going to be

Are they Americans or what rules will there be to restore citizenship if they so please?

Without citizenship it'll be harder to influence things

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I wonder what Cuba's policy towards the exile Cubans are going to be

Are they Americans or what rules will there be to restore citizenship if they so please?

Without citizenship it'll be harder to influence things

Well hopefully they are allowed back, not treated as traitors and allowed to speak freely and reclaim what they lost. Hopefully that's part of what our government is brokering.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I wonder what Cuba's policy towards the exile Cubans are going to be

Are they Americans or what rules will there be to restore citizenship if they so please?

Without citizenship it'll be harder to influence things

Well hopefully they are allowed back, not treated as traitors and allowed to speak freely and reclaim what they lost. Hopefully that's part of what our government is brokering.

Would be nice. Problem is there are some older folks who really have an ax to grind, and rightfully so, so as I was saying earlier this is going to have to be incremental.

If Congress somehow gets in the way of this all, I give up. A very small percentage of the population is really against this and this country is 90 MILES AWAY. No reason we can't at least be cordial with one another.

 

[tommyboy]

yeah that policy of ignoring them for 40 yrs really worked to free the communist people suffering under Castro.

better idea: expose them to the modern world one small step at a time, maybe the people will decide they've had enough

 

[Josie Maran]

I wonder what Cuba's policy towards the exile Cubans are going to be

Are they Americans or what rules will there be to restore citizenship if they so please?

Without citizenship it'll be harder to influence things

Well hopefully they are allowed back, not treated as traitors and allowed to speak freely and reclaim what they lost. Hopefully that's part of what our government is brokering.

Why would they be allowed to speak freely or reclaim what they lost?

Just because we open diplomatic relations doesn't mean that Cuba is suddenly America.

 

[msommer]

I wonder what Cuba's policy towards the exile Cubans are going to be

Are they Americans or what rules will there be to restore citizenship if they so please?

Without citizenship it'll be harder to influence things

Well hopefully they are allowed back, not treated as traitors and allowed to speak freely and reclaim what they lost. Hopefully that's part of what our government is brokering.

Why would they be allowed to speak freely or reclaim what they lost?

Just because we open diplomatic relations doesn't mean that Cuba is suddenly America.

I don't think Cuba is going to be welcoming back dissidents any time soon. So it'll be developments on the terms of the Cubans in Cuba, not the Cubans elsewhere.

 

[fatness]

yeah that policy of ignoring them for 40 yrs really worked to free the communist people suffering under Castro.

better idea: expose them to the modern world one small step at a time, maybe the people will decide they've had enough

10 or 20 years of contact with the US will change Cuba from the ground up. More trade, more interpersonal contact between people in each country ---Cuban people are going to like this. They'll change in ways that governments never could get them to change. In 20 years, kids in US schools will have no idea why the US ignored Cuba for decades. When someone explains the convoluted reasons to them, their reaction will be "that was pretty stupid".

 

[jon_mx]

Should be a nice boost to the Cruise industry business if it goes through to where we can freely visit. Cuba is a much more interesting destination than most ports.

But then again, perhaps people will opt just to go to Cuba instead wasting time at other stops.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I wonder what Cuba's policy towards the exile Cubans are going to be

Are they Americans or what rules will there be to restore citizenship if they so please?

Without citizenship it'll be harder to influence things

Well hopefully they are allowed back, not treated as traitors and allowed to speak freely and reclaim what they lost. Hopefully that's part of what our government is brokering.

Why would they be allowed to speak freely or reclaim what they lost?

Just because we open diplomatic relations doesn't mean that Cuba is suddenly America.

I don't think Cuba is going to be welcoming back dissidents any time soon. So it'll be developments on the terms of the Cubans in Cuba, not the Cubans elsewhere.

The US has been working to destabilize the Castro regime right even up until now even under Obama, that is not going to end and hopefully this just furthers that, and I think it will. I'm just saying I hope this is the ultimate goal. I hope we are not just planting an embassy without these things, without increased travel, without increased trade, without increased contact, because those are the things that will lead to change. It's a big deal for New Orleans, when trade with Cuba ended it really hurt us as a port city and as a hub for central and south America, so I am all in favor, I would just love to see Cuba be our backyard again and see it be a free republic and see the families get their properties back, their freedoms back (and some new freedoms they have never had) and their families back. Really Cuba has been screwed for its whole history, they deserve something better, something good for once, real freedom.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

This is a a plaque not far from where I am. This was the first "free Cuban flag" flown anywhere, 1850, I believe there is another plaque stating it was first flown on that spot.

The Liberation Expedition to Cuba under General Narciso Lopez, with hundreds of soldiers from Kentucky, Louisiana, and Mississippi, carrying the Cuban flag to Cuba for the first time in history left from New Orleans, May 11, 1850, on board the US Steamer "Creole" Capt. Lewis and triumphantly hoisted at Cardenas, Cuba May 18, 1850.

That's how long Cuba has been waiting for freedom.

 

[fatness]

The US has been working to destabilize the Castro regime right even up until now even under Obama, that is not going to end and hopefully this just furthers that, and I think it will. I'm just saying I hope this is the ultimate goal. I hope we are not just planting an embassy without these things, without increased travel, without increased trade, without increased contact, because those are the things that will lead to change. It's a big deal for New Orleans, when trade with Cuba ended it really hurt us as a port city and as a hub for central and south America, so I am all in favor, I would just love to see Cuba be our backyard again and see it be a free republic and see the families get their properties back, their freedoms back an their families back. Really Cuba has been screwed for its whole history, they deserve something better, something good for once, real freedom.

You've said that repeatedly -- that you want to see people get their property back. Is there some reason you think that will happen? This isn't a military move, so the US isn't going to go in to Cuba to try to accomplish that (thankfully). Are you judging this a failure if people don't get their property back?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

The US has been working to destabilize the Castro regime right even up until now even under Obama, that is not going to end and hopefully this just furthers that, and I think it will. I'm just saying I hope this is the ultimate goal. I hope we are not just planting an embassy without these things, without increased travel, without increased trade, without increased contact, because those are the things that will lead to change. It's a big deal for New Orleans, when trade with Cuba ended it really hurt us as a port city and as a hub for central and south America, so I am all in favor, I would just love to see Cuba be our backyard again and see it be a free republic and see the families get their properties back, their freedoms back an their families back. Really Cuba has been screwed for its whole history, they deserve something better, something good for once, real freedom.

You've said that repeatedly -- that you want to see people get their property back. Is there some reason you think that will happen? This isn't a military move, so the US isn't going to go in to Cuba to try to accomplish that (thankfully). Are you judging this a failure if people don't get their property back?

No, not now, not really. I just view that as a goal even if it takes decades and whatever we do should further that. I think everyone is imagining that we will be vacationing there, that families will be going back and forth, that we will be doing trade there, that we will be once again on a normal footing with Cuba. All of that would lead to change there. I don't know the details, admittedly, but I don't get the sense that is all happening at least not right away. If the Castro regime finally falls property return will be agenda item number one.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Cuba Opening Could Reopen Fight Over Billions In Seized PropertyAs President Obama tries to pry open the door to more U.S. trade with Cuba, the floor is cluttered with tens of billions of dollars in legal claims over property the Castro regime seized in the early days of the revolution. They may have to be resolved before Congress will allow full commercial relations with the island nation, given the political power of the Cuban emigre community in Florida.

Take the Sanchez family of Florida. They claim to own 100,000 acres, including 67 miles of coastline, in Holguin Province on the eastern end of Cuba and still assert their rights to collect rent and negotiate deals with developers who have built resorts on their property. Unlike prerevolutionary Russia, which had relatively poor private land records, Cuba kept meticulous records that are still available for examination in government offices, says Nicholas Gutierrez, a legal consultant in Florida who has advised the Sanchez family and other Cuban émigrés on property disputes.

The Castro government has never broken most estates up to give land to peasant farmers, as Fidel Castro once promised, or even sell to foreign developers. Government entities like Gaviota, the tourist agency controlled by the Cuban military, have negotiated joint ventures with foreign hotel operators to build resorts without giving them actual title to the land, he said.

“They don’t even claim to have title,” Gutierrez said of the Castro government. “The registries in Cuba still reflect the Sanchez family as owners of that property.”

Bacardi, Texaco, the Lykes Brothers shipping empire and others are among the companies with similar claims waiting to be resolved if and when Cuba and the U.S. enter into full diplomatic and commercial relations. After the revolution U.S. property owners registered $1.8 billion in claims – current value: $14 billion – with the Foreign Claims Settlement Commission, an arm of the Justice Dept. Given the explosive growth in tourism and development in the Caribbean and Latin America since then, the properties seized by the Castro regime could be worth more than $100 billion, Gutierrez said.

Cuba liberalized its rules on foreign investment earlier this year, allowing up to 100% ownership of development projects, and already Brazil has invested $2 billion into the Port of Mariel in anticipation of greater trade in the region, said Carlos Mendez-Penate, co-chair of co-chair of the Latin America and Caribbean practice at Akerman in New York. The project faces considerable risk unless the U.S. relaxes the trade embargo, which prohibits ships that have made port in Cuba from calling on U.S. ports for six months, Mendez-Penate said.

Investment banks, meanwhile, are anxiously awaiting U.S. regulations on whether they can provide trade finance to exporters who want to tap into the Cuba market, which will be liberalized beyond the current exemptions for food and pharmaceuticals. All of it may depend upon striking a deal with the government of Cuba that addresses the claims of thousands of exiles and their descendants in the U.S., Spain, Mexico and elsewhere.

“The reality is they’re going to have to make some resolution, certainly, to mollify Congress,” said Mendez-Penate, who left the island when he was nine and whose grandparents’ house in Havana is now occupied by the Uraguayan Embassy. “It is going to have to be worked out in a monetary fashion, or to return properties to their rightful owners.”

So far Cuba hasn’t conceded it stole anything. The country has mounted a vigorous legal effort to protect seized property, such as trademarks of Cuban companies it took after overthrowing the corrupt Batista regime in 1959. Empresa Cubana del Tabaco, the state-owned Cuban tobacco company, won a significant ruling at the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit this year, allowing it to challenge General Cigar’s trademark for the famous Cohiba brand in the U.S. The Second Circuit ruled the other way, saying Cubatabaco had no right to sue for the transfer of valuable property barred under the embargo, so the case is up for appeal before the U.S. Supreme Court.

Bacardi U.S.A won a similar case against Cuba in 2011, when the Third Circuit Court of Appeals ruled it could continue to sell Havana Club brand rum in the U.S. over the objections of Pernod Ricard , which bought the rights to the brand from the Cuban government. The decision reflected claims by the Arechabala family that Havana Club was seized from them without compensation in 1960. Bacardi later bought the brand.

Cuba uses experienced and expensive legal counsel in its trademark suits, hiring Andrew Deutsch of DLA Piper in New York to protect the Cohiba brand, for example. He said Cubatabaco had no comment on the administration’s changes in Cuba policy.

If economic liberalization leads to greater pressure for political change in Cuba, property owners might quickly find themselves dealing with nervous military leaders who control much of the nation’s economy, Mendez-Penate said.

“These guys have made a lot of money over the years,” he said. “They instinctively understand it is going to be very difficult over a number of years to maintain control.”

Gutierrez agreed that Fidel’s military cronies will likely be the key players in the process, although his clients “hope that when Castro dies they will grab the first plane to Mexico or Chile somewhere.”

“They will probably reinvent themselves,” he said, as did intelligence operatives like Vladimir Putin after the collapse of the Soviet regime.

While the generals currently have the power to negotiate joint ventures, and are doing so with companies Pernod Ricard and the big Spanish hotel operator Melia, investors will be wary about buying property from them unless it comes with a guarantee of clean title, Mendez-Penate said. That means the regime – or whatever replaces it – will have to deal with the exiles somehow.

“Where there’s economic incentives there’s money to do something,” he said. The best course might be negotiation and arbitration, he added, since litigation in two countries is likely a prescription for heavy legal bills and years of delay.

Gutierrez said the Sanchez family considered suing Melia over its resorts on their land in Cuba but U.S. courts decline jurisdiction over most such disputes because they involve foreign diplomacy. The Helms-Burton law of 1996 offered exiles an end-run around that doctrine by supposedly prohibiting foreign companies from trafficking in stolen Cuban property. But every president since Bill Clinton has suspended enforcement of that provision of the act, and the State Department has declined to enforce another provision prohibiting executives of those companies from obtaining U.S. visas, he said.

Given the difficulty of suing over long-ago property seizures, he said, his clients are pushing for a more streamlined resolution process like the ones used in East Germany and certain Eastern European nations. A remarkable amount of property in those countries was returned to former owners, or paid for, under a claims system.

“If we have to go to court, it will take 20 years,” he said.

By the way, the article and often the big stories like it are often about corporations but there are hundreds of thousands of families who lost their properties, on a much smaller but personal scale, many to most still in Cuba, who would have a right of return. There will also be a massive rush for unclaimed property.

When the Castros finally pass on, and they will, that could start the process, and hopefully freedom comes with it.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

CIGARS!!!!

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Cuba approves law aimed at attracting foreign investment(Reuters) - Cuba's National Assembly passed a new foreign investment law on Saturday that aims to bring badly needed capital to the communist economy by offering steep tax cuts and promising a climate of investment security.

The assembly voted unanimously in a special session to approve the law, official media reported. It will become valid within 90 days.

The new law halves the profits tax from 30 to 15 percent and exempts investors from paying it for eight years, though it also appears to withhold many of the tax benefits from companies that are 100 percent foreign-owned. Those incentives are reserved for joint ventures with the Cuban state and investments linking foreign and Cuban companies.

Analysts and Cuban-based diplomats have expressed skepticism over the law, uncertain whether the one-party state has undergone a genuine change of heart and truly wants to attract foreign investors on international terms.

Areas such as agriculture, infrastructure, sugar, nickel mining, building renovation and real estate development are considered ripe for investment.

...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/29/us-cuba-investment-idUSBREA2S0EJ20140329

This basically took effect in July or so. I'm guessing this is why we are normalizing relations now, there will be a mad rush of foreign investment and Obama is probably hearing it from US business interests that they want in.

 

[fatness]

The US has been working to destabilize the Castro regime right even up until now even under Obama, that is not going to end and hopefully this just furthers that, and I think it will. I'm just saying I hope this is the ultimate goal. I hope we are not just planting an embassy without these things, without increased travel, without increased trade, without increased contact, because those are the things that will lead to change. It's a big deal for New Orleans, when trade with Cuba ended it really hurt us as a port city and as a hub for central and south America, so I am all in favor, I would just love to see Cuba be our backyard again and see it be a free republic and see the families get their properties back, their freedoms back an their families back. Really Cuba has been screwed for its whole history, they deserve something better, something good for once, real freedom.

You've said that repeatedly -- that you want to see people get their property back. Is there some reason you think that will happen? This isn't a military move, so the US isn't going to go in to Cuba to try to accomplish that (thankfully). Are you judging this a failure if people don't get their property back?

No, not now, not really. I just view that as a goal even if it takes decades and whatever we do should further that.

I'm thinking Country A trying to facilitate transfers of property and wealth between people living in Country C isn't the thing to do.

And if it's Country A trying to facilitate transfers of property and wealth from people in Country C to former residents of Country C now residing in Country A, that's probably not so good an idea.

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

Good side bar story on the spy the U.S. got back in the trade