Unassisted Triple Play (1 Viewer)

[Gordo]

Girls Fastpitch Softball

Runners on second and third with no outs.

Pop fly caught by pitcher.

Both runners had taken a lead off and did not return to their bases to tag up.

Pitcher ran to third base and touched the base before the runner going home returned.

The runner from 2nd ran all the way to third and was occupying third when the pitcher tagged her.

The ump waited until the pitcher threw the ball to second base to touch second before calling the third out, but I think this should be an unassisted triple play because of the catch, touching third base gets the runner going home out, and tagging the runner from second, because she was not legally occupying third base because she did not tag up.

 

[Limp Ditka]

yes it is.

 

[prosopis]

yes it is.

I second it

 

[shadyridr]

Ump was a moron

 

[videoguy505]

Ump sux, it's unassisted.

 

[bialczabub]

I'm not so sure. Is a runner allowed to touch 3rd at all if a fly ball is caught?In other words, was the runner out by touching 3rd, thereby rendering the pitcher's tagging her pointless?I don't remember if you can run backwards over a base. Don't think you can.EDIT: hmm...

7.02In advancing, a runner shall touch first, second, third and home base in order. If forced to return, he shall retouch all bases in reverse order, unless the ball is dead under any provision of Rule 5.09. In such cases, the runner may go directly to his original base.

Sounds like a caught fly ball would be a runner being forced to return.

 

[Das Boot]

The ump might be right.

It hinges on how a runner illegally advancing a base on a fly ball must be put out. If they can be tagged, can they be tagged while standing on a base, even if "illegally" occupied?

Interesting situation.

 

[HarryManback]

No, ump was wrong.

Unnassisted Triple Play.

 

[videoguy505]

If the Ump was right, then if the pitcher pitched to the next batter before throwing to second for the "force out", the runner would have been allowed to stay on third base? Ump was high on goofballs.

 

[The Kerminator]

I think the ump was right. The runner was occupying third base, legally or illegally. If she was a foot off the bag then she would be out. It is the same thing as a runner leaving a base early on a tag. If no one notices them leaving early they advance. Technically, the runner left early, albeit very early.

 

[apalmer]

I think the ump was right. The runner was occupying third base, legally or illegally. If she was a foot off the bag then she would be out. It is the same thing as a runner leaving a base early on a tag. If no one notices them leaving early they advance. Technically, the runner left early, albeit very early.

I agree. It's just like a runner who tags up at third but leaves early. If the defense throws home and the runner beats the tag, home plate ump will call him safe. Defense has to throw the ball to third (or run it there) to get the appeal "out" call.

 

[thayman]

I think the ump was right. The runner was occupying third base, legally or illegally. If she was a foot off the bag then she would be out. It is the same thing as a runner leaving a base early on a tag. If no one notices them leaving early they advance. Technically, the runner left early, albeit very early.

I agree. It's just like a runner who tags up at third but leaves early. If the defense throws home and the runner beats the tag, home plate ump will call him safe. Defense has to throw the ball to third (or run it there) to get the appeal "out" call.

this is my understandment of the rule as well. The runner is not out at 3rd, she is out at 2nd base where she did not tag up.

 

[The Commish]

The ump was absolutely right. When a fielder catches a pop fly, the runner on base must tag. If he/she does not tag, the fielder has to get the ball back to the base and tag the base before the runner gets back. If a runner is retreating back to a base the ball still has to get to the BASE before the runner for an out. You can't tag the runner as they are running back to the base. The ump was dead on....this is not a triple play. Sorry.

 

[Gordo]

Response from an ump on allexperts.com

Answer:

My first reaction is me too! (to it being an unassisted triple play) But it is a live ball appeal so in addition to the tag the pitcher needed to appeal, tag..."left early" or something similar

Even the touch at 2nd had there been no tag at 3rd should be verbally appealed.

If there was no question the runner left early and everbody knew it, would I have given an out on the tag at 3rd...yea, probably.

 

[heckmanm]

The ump was absolutely right. When a fielder catches a pop fly, the runner on base must tag. If he/she does not tag, the fielder has to get the ball back to the base and tag the base before the runner gets back. If a runner is retreating back to a base the ball still has to get to the BASE before the runner for an out. You can't tag the runner as they are running back to the base. The ump was dead on....this is not a triple play. Sorry.

Well, it's still a triple play, just perhaps not unassisted.However, under this interpretation, there would almost NEVER be an unassisted TP, since the fielder catching the ball would have to run to two different bases to record the outs. Would require a VERY slow (or inattentive) baserunner.

It would also wipe out the famous UTP in the world series (Bill "Wamby" Wambsganss, anyone?), where he caught a line drive over 2nd base, stepped on the bag, and tagged the runner sliding in from first.

 

[Bitter]

The ump was absolutely right. When a fielder catches a pop fly, the runner on base must tag. If he/she does not tag, the fielder has to get the ball back to the base and tag the base before the runner gets back. If a runner is retreating back to a base the ball still has to get to the BASE before the runner for an out. You can't tag the runner as they are running back to the base. The ump was dead on....this is not a triple play. Sorry.

This is correct...

 

[The Iguana]

If a runner is retreating back to a base the ball still has to get to the BASE before the runner for an out. You can't tag the runner as they are running back to the base.

You can tag a runner off a base at any time and they are out (except of course a runner going back to a base after a foul ball). The only "problem" in this case is that the runner is standing on 3rd. If the pitcher would have waited for her to step off the bag to return to 2nd and then tagged her, the runner would have been out. However, as mentioned, this is the same as a runner leaving early on a tag. And yes, technically if the pitcher walks back to the mound and throws a pitch to the next batter, the runner would stay on 3rd and once the pitch was thrown, could not be called out. The "appeal"/force out on the pop up must be made before the next pitch is thrown.

 

[Godsbrother]

Major League Basaeball Rule 7.08

Any runner is out when --

© He is tagged, when the ball is alive, while off his base.

In this case "his" base was second base because she has not legally acquired third base.

If the rules of Fastpitch Softball are the same then I think the umpire blew it.

 

[The Commish]

The ump was absolutely right.  When a fielder catches a pop fly, the runner on base must tag.  If he/she does not tag, the fielder has to get the ball back to the base and tag the base before the runner gets back.  If a runner is retreating back to a base the ball still has to get to the BASE before the runner for an out.  You can't tag the runner as they are running back to the base.  The ump was dead on....this is not a triple play.  Sorry.

Well, it's still a triple play, just perhaps not unassisted.However, under this interpretation, there would almost NEVER be an unassisted TP, since the fielder catching the ball would have to run to two different bases to record the outs. Would require a VERY slow (or inattentive) baserunner.

It would also wipe out the famous UTP in the world series (Bill "Wamby" Wambsganss, anyone?), where he caught a line drive over 2nd base, stepped on the bag, and tagged the runner sliding in from first.

Yes...sorry...still a triple play, just not unassisted.

 

[Godsbrother]

If a runner is retreating back to a base the ball still has to get to the BASE before the runner for an out.  You can't tag the runner as they are running back to the base.

You can tag a runner off a base at any time and they are out (except of course a runner going back to a base after a foul ball). The only "problem" in this case is that the runner is standing on 3rd. If the pitcher would have waited for her to step off the bag to return to 2nd and then tagged her, the runner would have been out.

I think you are wrong. The runner had not legally acquired third base so it was not her base and standing on it makes no difference. She should have been called out as soon as she was tagged.

 

[belljr]

I think the ump is right. Here is why.

Let's say the runner on second left just a touch early. Like just before the outfielder caught it.

Now the runner is on third base. You cannot go over and tag her and say she is out. You have to throw to second/appeal to to get the out. If no-one noticed that she left early, then she gets to stay on that base if the next pitch is made.

Same can be said for someone that misses a base. If a runner runs from first to third on a hit but fails to touch second. You can appeal and throw to second for the out before the next pitch. If a pitch is thrown, they now stay on third.

In this case it was obvious that the runner left early but tagging a runner on base is still safe, Regardless of the situation of how she got there.

 

[The Commish]

If a runner is retreating back to a base the ball still has to get to the BASE before the runner for an out.  You can't tag the runner as they are running back to the base.

You can tag a runner off a base at any time and they are out (except of course a runner going back to a base after a foul ball). The only "problem" in this case is that the runner is standing on 3rd. If the pitcher would have waited for her to step off the bag to return to 2nd and then tagged her, the runner would have been out.

I think you are wrong. The runner had not legally acquired third base so it was not her base and standing on it makes no difference. She should have been called out as soon as she was tagged.

When a batter doesn't tag up the fielder gets the out by getting the ball back to the privious base BEFORE the runner gets back there. That's the case here. That ball has to get back to second base before the runner does. If the pitcher tags the girl, ump makes no call, pitcher goes back to pitcher's mound and pitches, the runner at 3rd would stay at 3rd. Conversely, if the pitcher goes back to the mound and makes a formal appeal to 2nd, the runner would be called out as well, as long as the runner didn't get back to second before the appeal was made.

 

[Godsbrother]

If a runner is retreating back to a base the ball still has to get to the BASE before the runner for an out.  You can't tag the runner as they are running back to the base.

You can tag a runner off a base at any time and they are out (except of course a runner going back to a base after a foul ball). The only "problem" in this case is that the runner is standing on 3rd. If the pitcher would have waited for her to step off the bag to return to 2nd and then tagged her, the runner would have been out.

I think you are wrong. The runner had not legally acquired third base so it was not her base and standing on it makes no difference. She should have been called out as soon as she was tagged.

When a batter doesn't tag up the fielder gets the out by getting the ball back to the privious base BEFORE the runner gets back there. That's the case here. That ball has to get back to second base before the runner does. If the pitcher tags the girl, ump makes no call, pitcher goes back to pitcher's mound and pitches, the runner at 3rd would stay at 3rd. Conversely, if the pitcher goes back to the mound and makes a formal appeal to 2nd, the runner would be called out as well, as long as the runner didn't get back to second before the appeal was made.

First of all I have never seen a case where the batter has to tag up. And I still think you are wrong under rule 7.08 c:

Any runner is out when --

He is tagged, when the ball is alive, while off his base.

But also check out rule 7.10 a:

Any runner shall be called out, on appeal, when --

(a) After a fly ball is caught, he fails to retouch his original base before he or his original base is tagged;

Rule 7.10(a) Comment: “Retouch,” in this rule, means to tag up and start from a contact with the base after the ball is caught.

It doesn't matter whether you tag the runner OR the base, the runner is out. Standing on 3rd base makes no difference since she had not legally acquired it.

 

[ClickClack]

Sorry, doesn't count because it was a girls game.

 

[The Commish]

I take back everything I have said. If you read rule 7.08 item (d) of the baseball rulebook it says:

A runner is out when --

(d) He fails to retouch his base after a fair or foul ball is legally caught before he, or his base, is tagged by a fielder.

The ump did in fact screw up...and so did I

 

[Godsbrother]

I take back everything I have said. If you read rule 7.08 item (d) of the baseball rulebook it says:

A runner is out when --

(d) He fails to retouch his base after a fair or foul ball is legally caught before he, or his base, is tagged by a fielder.

The ump did in fact screw up...and so did I

Oh I missed that one. Pretty clear -- ump screwed up.

 

[SuperJohn96]

Some of you people must be snorting lines of white chalk to think the runner could be safe while standing on third base.

Are you crazy? The runner is not safe while illegally standing on the wrong base.

Some people's kids...

 

[Wu-banger]

there are some complete idiots on this board sometimes or maybe just smart people who over-think...

It is a triple play... UNASSISTED.

 

[The Iguana]

This really opens up a pretty good discussion. Based on the rules as posted here, you should not have to make an appeal on a runner leaving early (same basic situation here) if you make a tag at the "new" base. The runner should just be called out if the ump knows that a runner left early. This never happens and a team only gets the out called if the appeal is made at the base. I guess you could make the tag at the base and then appeal but I never have really understood why you have to make an appeal if the ump knows they left early. Shouldn't they just call them out? Why should the other team have to point out that the player broke the rule to get the call? Shouldn't the ump just call it that way if he saw it?

 

[MrPack]

I take back everything I have said. If you read rule 7.08 item (d) of the baseball rulebook it says:

A runner is out when --

(d) He fails to retouch his base after a fair or foul ball is legally caught before he, or his base, is tagged by a fielder.

The ump did in fact screw up...and so did I

If this is written verbatim, it's an unassissted Triple Play.

 

[MrPack]

The ump was absolutely right.  When a fielder catches a pop fly, the runner on base must tag.  If he/she does not tag, the fielder has to get the ball back to the base and tag the base before the runner gets back.  If a runner is retreating back to a base the ball still has to get to the BASE before the runner for an out.  You can't tag the runner as they are running back to the base.  The ump was dead on....this is not a triple play.  Sorry.

This is correct...

 

[Mario Kart]

You cannot tag out a player when they are on base... ANY base. The player is safe when on a base and thus having to tag the base, if original to the runner, is why the appeal needs to be to the original base and not where the player is at that moment.

In this case, the runner acquired 3rd base, illegally as she did not tag up properly, but that does not mean she can now be tagged out on 3rd base because when on a base you are safe. She steps off base she is out if tagged and since she does not leave the base, the out must be made at the original base instead. The Ump is correct in this situation.

 

[Godsbrother]

You cannot tag out a player when they are on base... ANY base. The player is safe when on a base and thus having to tag the base, if original to the runner, is why the appeal needs to be to the original base and not where the player is at that moment.

In this case, the runner acquired 3rd base, illegally as she did not tag up properly, but that does not mean she can now be tagged out on 3rd base because when on a base you are safe.

Please show me the rule in the rulebook that says you cannot be tagged out if you are on ANY base.Again Rule 7.08c:

Any runner is out when --

He is tagged, when the ball is alive, while off his base.

Why would they add the word "his" in front of base instead of "any". "His" in this case means legally acquired base. If he is on a base illegally then it cannot be considered "his" and he can be tagged out.

Another example where a runner can be tagged out while on base is described in rule 7.03:

Two runners may not occupy a base, but if, while the ball is alive, two runners are touching a base, the following runner shall be out when tagged. The preceding runner is entitled to the base.

 

[Mr. Know-It-All]

I assume that the runner from second did not tag up before advancing to third.

If that is the case then it is an unassisted triple play. Catch = 1 out, stepping on third = force out for out 2, and tagging runner who failed to tag up before advancing is out 3.

If the runner on second had tagged up after the out as made before advancing to third, it was only a double play because the runner from second would be legally occupying third base after having tagged up.

 

[The Commish]

I take back everything I have said.  If you read rule 7.08 item (d) of the baseball rulebook it says:

A runner is out when --

(d) He fails to retouch his base after a fair or foul ball is legally caught before he, or his base, is tagged by a fielder.

The ump did in fact screw up...and so did I 

If this is written verbatim, it's an unassissted Triple Play.

Yes. For some reason I was thinking the play had to be made at the base that was left too early. Guess I have never seen it otherwise and just assumed that's the way it needed to be. He can be tagged out....it's clear in the rules.My bad

 

[The Iguana]

Please show me the rule in the rulebook that says you cannot be tagged out if you are on ANY base.

Here you go:

7.01

A runner acquires the right to an unoccupied base when he touches it before he is out. He is then entitled to it until he is put out, or forced to vacate it for another runner legally entitled to that base.

Rule 7.01 Comment: If a runner legally acquires title to a base, and the pitcher assumes his pitching position, the runner may not return to a previously occupied base.

Based on this and added to the previously quoted rules, it sounds like the right call was made. Also note from the rule below that had the pitcher thrown a pitch (or made a move to 3rd, etc), the runner would remain on 3rd and could not be called out despite never attempting to tag up:

(d) He fails to retouch his base after a fair or foul ball is legally caught before he, or his base, is tagged by a fielder. He shall not be called out for failure to retouch his base after the first following pitch, or any play or attempted play. This is an appeal play;

 

[David Yudkin]

You cannot tag out a player when they are on base... ANY base.  The player is safe when on a base and thus having to tag the base, if original to the runner, is why the appeal needs to be to the original base and not where the player is at that moment. 

In this case, the runner acquired 3rd base, illegally as she did not tag up properly, but that does not mean she can now be tagged out on 3rd base because when on a base you are safe. 

Please show me the rule in the rulebook that says you cannot be tagged out if you are on ANY base.Again Rule 7.08c:

Any runner is out when --

He is tagged, when the ball is alive, while off his base.

Why would they add the word "his" in front of base instead of "any". "His" in this case means legally acquired base. If he is on a base illegally then it cannot be considered "his" and he can be tagged out.

Another example where a runner can be tagged out while on base is described in rule 7.03:

Two runners may not occupy a base, but if, while the ball is alive, two runners are touching a base, the following runner shall be out when tagged. The preceding runner is entitled to the base.

The confusion here lies in the fact that you are assigning HIS BASE to second base in this situation, but once the runner advanced to third that base became HIS BASE (or in this case her base). The runner needed to vacate the base and return to second, but until second base was tagged by a fielder with the ball, third base became the base assigned to the runner.For example, if the runner on second started running on a fly ball to the outfield and ran to third and on to home, the runner would have to retouch THIRD BASE on the way to second if the ball were caught. If the runner somehow managed to miss third but beat the throw to second, the same situation would arise IN REVERSE order as described in this thread. The runner could be safe at second base (remember, a runner is safe on any base and cannot be tagged out while standing on a base where no other runner is standing). If the team appealed at third the runner would be called out for not touching his assigned base--which would be THIRD BASE.

In the case of the triple play, the umps made the right call. The runner was not out until the ball and a fielder touched second base. Basically, the team was appealing that the runner left to early and the umpire agreed.

In this case, the runner had a right to occupy third base, so standing on the bag she could not be called out (from the description it does not sound like there was another runner on the base at the same time). LEAVING SECOND BASE EARLY has to be resolved AT SECOND BASE unless the runner was tagged off of any base.

 

[The Commish]

Please show me the rule in the rulebook that says you cannot be tagged out if you are on ANY base.

Here you go:

7.01

A runner acquires the right to an unoccupied base when he touches it before he is out. He is then entitled to it until he is put out, or forced to vacate it for another runner legally entitled to that base.

Rule 7.01 Comment: If a runner legally acquires title to a base, and the pitcher assumes his pitching position, the runner may not return to a previously occupied base.

Based on this and added to the previously quoted rules, it sounds like the right call was made. Also note from the rule below that had the pitcher thrown a pitch (or made a move to 3rd, etc), the runner would remain on 3rd and could not be called out despite never attempting to tag up:

(d) He fails to retouch his base after a fair or foul ball is legally caught before he, or his base, is tagged by a fielder. He shall not be called out for failure to retouch his base after the first following pitch, or any play or attempted play. This is an appeal play;

The problem here is the runner DIDN'T take the base legally....thus the runner didn't have title to third base. The ump blew the call. It's black and white. The last legal base, the runner in question is entitled too, is second base, not third.

 

[Mario Kart]

You cannot tag out a player when they are on base... ANY base.  The player is safe when on a base and thus having to tag the base, if original to the runner, is why the appeal needs to be to the original base and not where the player is at that moment. 

In this case, the runner acquired 3rd base, illegally as she did not tag up properly, but that does not mean she can now be tagged out on 3rd base because when on a base you are safe. 

Please show me the rule in the rulebook that says you cannot be tagged out if you are on ANY base.Again Rule 7.08c:

Any runner is out when --

He is tagged, when the ball is alive, while off his base.

Why would they add the word "his" in front of base instead of "any". "His" in this case means legally acquired base. If he is on a base illegally then it cannot be considered "his" and he can be tagged out.

Another example where a runner can be tagged out while on base is described in rule 7.03:

Two runners may not occupy a base, but if, while the ball is alive, two runners are touching a base, the following runner shall be out when tagged. The preceding runner is entitled to the base.

The confusion here lies in the fact that you are assigning HIS BASE to second base in this situation, but once the runner advanced to third that base became HIS BASE (or in this case her base). The runner needed to vacate the base and return to second, but until second base was tagged by a fielder with the ball, third base became the base assigned to the runner.For example, if the runner on second started running on a fly ball to the outfield and ran to third and on to home, the runner would have to retouch THIRD BASE on the way to second if the ball were caught. If the runner somehow managed to miss third but beat the throw to second, the same situation would arise IN REVERSE order as described in this thread. The runner could be safe at second base (remember, a runner is safe on any base and cannot be tagged out while standing on a base where no other runner is standing). If the team appealed at third the runner would be called out for not touching his assigned base--which would be THIRD BASE.

In the case of the triple play, the umps made the right call. The runner was not out until the ball and a fielder touched second base. Basically, the team was appealing that the runner left to early and the umpire agreed.

In this case, the runner had a right to occupy third base, so standing on the bag she could not be called out (from the description it does not sound like there was another runner on the base at the same time). LEAVING SECOND BASE EARLY has to be resolved AT SECOND BASE unless the runner was tagged off of any base.

 

[The Commish]

You cannot tag out a player when they are on base... ANY base.  The player is safe when on a base and thus having to tag the base, if original to the runner, is why the appeal needs to be to the original base and not where the player is at that moment. 

In this case, the runner acquired 3rd base, illegally as she did not tag up properly, but that does not mean she can now be tagged out on 3rd base because when on a base you are safe. 

Please show me the rule in the rulebook that says you cannot be tagged out if you are on ANY base.Again Rule 7.08c:

Any runner is out when --

He is tagged, when the ball is alive, while off his base.

Why would they add the word "his" in front of base instead of "any". "His" in this case means legally acquired base. If he is on a base illegally then it cannot be considered "his" and he can be tagged out.

Another example where a runner can be tagged out while on base is described in rule 7.03:

Two runners may not occupy a base, but if, while the ball is alive, two runners are touching a base, the following runner shall be out when tagged. The preceding runner is entitled to the base.

The confusion here lies in the fact that you are assigning HIS BASE to second base in this situation, but once the runner advanced to third that base became HIS BASE (or in this case her base). The runner needed to vacate the base and return to second, but until second base was tagged by a fielder with the ball, third base became the base assigned to the runner.For example, if the runner on second started running on a fly ball to the outfield and ran to third and on to home, the runner would have to retouch THIRD BASE on the way to second if the ball were caught. If the runner somehow managed to miss third but beat the throw to second, the same situation would arise IN REVERSE order as described in this thread. The runner could be safe at second base (remember, a runner is safe on any base and cannot be tagged out while standing on a base where no other runner is standing). If the team appealed at third the runner would be called out for not touching his assigned base--which would be THIRD BASE.

In the case of the triple play, the umps made the right call. The runner was not out until the ball and a fielder touched second base. Basically, the team was appealing that the runner left to early and the umpire agreed.

In this case, the runner had a right to occupy third base, so standing on the bag she could not be called out (from the description it does not sound like there was another runner on the base at the same time). LEAVING SECOND BASE EARLY has to be resolved AT SECOND BASE unless the runner was tagged off of any base.

Granted, the rules are baseball rule, but they say different than you. There might be some softball rule, but in baseball the rules clearly state that you can tag the runner OR the base.

 

[The Iguana]

Please show me the rule in the rulebook that says you cannot be tagged out if you are on ANY base.

Here you go:

7.01

A runner acquires the right to an unoccupied base when he touches it before he is out. He is then entitled to it until he is put out, or forced to vacate it for another runner legally entitled to that base.

Rule 7.01 Comment: If a runner legally acquires title to a base, and the pitcher assumes his pitching position, the runner may not return to a previously occupied base.

Based on this and added to the previously quoted rules, it sounds like the right call was made. Also note from the rule below that had the pitcher thrown a pitch (or made a move to 3rd, etc), the runner would remain on 3rd and could not be called out despite never attempting to tag up:

(d) He fails to retouch his base after a fair or foul ball is legally caught before he, or his base, is tagged by a fielder. He shall not be called out for failure to retouch his base after the first following pitch, or any play or attempted play. This is an appeal play;

The problem here is the runner DIDN'T take the base legally....thus the runner didn't have title to third base. The ump blew the call. It's black and white. The last legal base, the runner in question is entitled too, is second base, not third.

By the first bolded part above, he did take the base legally. He then gets put out by the 2nd bolded part. 2 separate rules.

 

[The Commish]

Please show me the rule in the rulebook that says you cannot be tagged out if you are on ANY base.

Here you go:

7.01

A runner acquires the right to an unoccupied base when he touches it before he is out. He is then entitled to it until he is put out, or forced to vacate it for another runner legally entitled to that base.

Rule 7.01 Comment: If a runner legally acquires title to a base, and the pitcher assumes his pitching position, the runner may not return to a previously occupied base.

Based on this and added to the previously quoted rules, it sounds like the right call was made. Also note from the rule below that had the pitcher thrown a pitch (or made a move to 3rd, etc), the runner would remain on 3rd and could not be called out despite never attempting to tag up:

(d) He fails to retouch his base after a fair or foul ball is legally caught before he, or his base, is tagged by a fielder. He shall not be called out for failure to retouch his base after the first following pitch, or any play or attempted play. This is an appeal play;

The problem here is the runner DIDN'T take the base legally....thus the runner didn't have title to third base. The ump blew the call. It's black and white. The last legal base, the runner in question is entitled too, is second base, not third.

By the first bolded part above, he did take the base legally. He then gets put out by the 2nd bolded part. 2 separate rules.

In this case, the runner who was initially on third has right to the base, not the girl running to third base.

 

[Mario Kart]

In this case, the runner who was initially on third has right to the base, not the girl running to third base.

The girl on third has every right to be there as well. If the team did not recognize her error then the game continues and nothing happens. Tagging her on thrid does nothing. She needs to be put out where the error took place and that is at second base in this situation. The Ump is correct here.

 

[The Commish]

In this case, the runner who was initially on third has right to the base, not the girl running to third base.

The girl on third has every right to be there as well. If the team did not recognize her error then the game continues and nothing happens. Tagging her on thrid does nothing. She needs to be put out where the error took place and that is at second base in this situation. The Ump is correct here.

But you can't have two people on one base. Thus, the runner that was there initially has right to the base and the runner from second, though standing on the base, has no right to the base so she might as well be standing beside the base. Since the player OR the base can be tagged, she should have been called out when she was initially tagged by the fielder. The throw was unnecessary.

 

[Godsbrother]

In this case, the runner who was initially on third has right to the base, not the girl running to third base.

The girl on third has every right to be there as well. If the team did not recognize her error then the game continues and nothing happens. Tagging her on thrid does nothing. She needs to be put out where the error took place and that is at second base in this situation. The Ump is correct here.

You are correct, I was wrong.If you think about an appeal of leaving the base early, the throw by pitcher is always to the base the runner left early from. If I was correct then the pitcher could also throw it to third and tag the runner, which is NEVER done.

I was incorrect, the ump was right.

 

[David Yudkin]

Please show me the rule in the rulebook that says you cannot be tagged out if you are on ANY base.

Here you go:

7.01

A runner acquires the right to an unoccupied base when he touches it before he is out. He is then entitled to it until he is put out, or forced to vacate it for another runner legally entitled to that base.

Rule 7.01 Comment: If a runner legally acquires title to a base, and the pitcher assumes his pitching position, the runner may not return to a previously occupied base.

Based on this and added to the previously quoted rules, it sounds like the right call was made. Also note from the rule below that had the pitcher thrown a pitch (or made a move to 3rd, etc), the runner would remain on 3rd and could not be called out despite never attempting to tag up:

(d) He fails to retouch his base after a fair or foul ball is legally caught before he, or his base, is tagged by a fielder. He shall not be called out for failure to retouch his base after the first following pitch, or any play or attempted play. This is an appeal play;

The problem here is the runner DIDN'T take the base legally....thus the runner didn't have title to third base. The ump blew the call. It's black and white. The last legal base, the runner in question is entitled too, is second base, not third.

In the play in question, it seems clear as to where the runner SHOULD have been becuase the ball was caught quickly. In many cases, it is impossible to know right away. Again, on a deep fly ball to the outfield, a runner could easily run and touch third base from second while the ball is in the air. Third base then becomes a legal base for he/she to be on. Even if the ball were CAUGHT, there is nothing that says the runner would HAVE to leave that base. If the team did not appeal the play at second, the runner WOULD STAY at third base. Therefore, it is not ILLEGAL to be on third base. It is illegal to NOT be on second base, which is where the ball and a fielder have to be at the same time for the case to be made that the runner left too soon. I've seen plays where teams flat out forgot about the runner advancing and did not do anything and the runner got to stay where he was. The runner figured it out, but making a mad dash back to the original base would have gotten him out with a simple toss back to the base.

In the play I referenced earlier where a runner DID NOT retouch third base in returning to his original base, that runner WOULD NOT be called out if he were tagged while on the base after beating the throw to second base. The only way for the runner to be out would be to appeal the play at third base. I know . . . I've been that runner before (in softball).

There has been some talk about tagging the runner with the ball after the catch while not on a base. That runner would be out whether the ball was caught or dropped--any runner tagged not on a base is out (provided it's a live ball situation).

To the best of my knowledge, the only time a runner can be tagged out while standing on a base is if there are two runners on the same base at the same time.

 

[David Yudkin]

But you can't have two people on one base. Thus, the runner that was there initially has right to the base and the runner from second, though standing on the base, has no right to the base so she might as well be standing beside the base. Since the player OR the base can be tagged, she should have been called out when she was initially tagged by the fielder. The throw was unnecessary.

This has probably been cleared up already, but the other thing here is that the runner that WAS on third was already called out, which negates the two runners occupying the same base argument.

 

[The Iguana]

there are some complete idiots on this board sometimes or maybe just smart people who over-think...

Or quick replies from those that under-think.

It is a triple play... UNASSISTED.

 

[JayMan]

Girls Fastpitch Softball

Runners on second and third with no outs.

Pop fly caught by pitcher.

Both runners had taken a lead off and did not return to their bases to tag up.

Pitcher ran to third base and touched the base before the runner going home returned.

The runner from 2nd ran all the way to third and was occupying third when the pitcher tagged her.

The ump waited until the pitcher threw the ball to second base to touch second before calling the third out, but I think this should be an unassisted triple play because of the catch, touching third base gets the runner going home out, and tagging the runner from second, because she was not legally occupying third base because she did not tag up.

From the description above... the "2nd base runner" was legally standing on 3rd base when the pitcher touched her...Thus, the umpire made the right call - he can't assume that the defense wants to appeal the fact the "2nd base runner" left early on the fly by touching her on 3rd base... rightly calling her safe there...

But with the toss to second base, then he knows that the defense is asking him if she left early - calling her out...