US economy thread (2 Viewers)

[urbanhack]

Nvidia recently announced they plan on investing hundreds of billions in U.S. manufacturing over the next four years.

Did the world's 2nd most valuable company need an infrastructure "plan?"

If that is the extent of the counterpoint to the fact that this country has no plan to ramp up manufacturing, I feel like you're made my point for me.

Isn’t this usually where the free market steps in where there is opportunity? I’m sure the admin will support private enterprise similar to what we’ve seen announced recently with other large strategic investments.

I’m not sure I’d want the government to ramp up manufacturing.

Agreed. It's nuts to want the gov't involved in any sort of planning beyond creating incentives

18F seemed it was worth its money until it got shut down.

 

[Stoneworker]

Isn’t this usually where the free market steps in where there is opportunity? I’m sure the admin will support private enterprise similar to what we’ve seen announced recently with other large strategic investments.

I’m not sure I’d want the government to ramp up manufacturing.

Agreed. It's nuts to want the gov't involved in any sort of planning beyond creating incentives

18F seemed it was worth its money until it got shut down.

My comment was more in the context of spoon-feeding the private sector a full blown mfg plan.

18F was intra-gov't, no? I have seen at NREL a number of worthy private-public partnership initiatives that seem(ed?) quite worthwhile

 

[Schmeabs]

The plan is to jack up the cost of cheap overseas goods (that the US consumer pays) so we bring manufacturing back to the US, except not for manufacturing jobs, but for robots and AI. That's what the blue collar worker in the US wants?

And there's no infrastructure for ramped up US manufacturing. Not even a plan.

What about a concept of a plan?

Keep the political pot shots out of here

 

[massraider]

People want $8 shirts from TJ Maxx.

There's no plan by anyone, to fill that gap. We rely on cheap stuff from the East.

 

[urbanhack]

Nvidia recently announced they plan on investing hundreds of billions in U.S. manufacturing over the next four years.

Did the world's 2nd most valuable company need an infrastructure "plan?"

If that is the extent of the counterpoint to the fact that this country has no plan to ramp up manufacturing, I feel like you're made my point for me.

There wasn't anything close to an "infrastructure plan" to ramp up domestic solar manufacturing capacity by over 50x from 2017 to 2025

There was only tariffs and a variety of onshore tax incentives. Same as now.

This isn't China. There isn't a 5-year plan for industrial policy.

For some beta testing and other use cases I have a sandbox portal at work that aggregates content and information and then uses AI to summarize to provide market and competitive intelligence. This is our core product and I built mine around aggregating news about renewable energy so I'm able to query for pretty much anything. Here's what I asked it about what has been done to ramp up solar manufacturing. I think my news sources have only been dumping information for the past six to nine months:

The United States is experiencing a significant transformation in its solar manufacturing landscape, driven by strategic investments and federal policies aimed at enhancing domestic production capabilities. Recent initiatives have led to the establishment of several key projects that collectively aim to ramp up solar manufacturing capacity, ensuring a robust supply chain and reducing reliance on foreign imports.

1. Boviet Solar in North Carolina: Boviet Solar is investing over $294 million to build a solar panel manufacturing facility in Greenville, North Carolina, set to open in Q1 2025. This facility will mark Boviet's first manufacturing site in North America, significantly contributing to local job creation and solar panel production capacity .
2. NorSun in Oklahoma: The Norwegian solar manufacturer NorSun is establishing its first U.S. facility in Tulsa, Oklahoma, with a $620 million investment. This project, in collaboration with Silfab Solar, aims to bolster domestic solar manufacturing and enhance the supply chain for solar products .
3. ES Foundry in South Carolina: ES Foundry has launched a 3-GW silicon solar cell manufacturing facility in Greenwood, South Carolina, which is poised to become the largest of its kind in the U.S. This facility is a critical component of the broader strategy to increase domestic solar cell production and support the growing demand for solar energy .
4. ARCO/Murray in North Carolina: ARCO/Murray is overseeing the construction of a 1.1 million square-foot solar manufacturing hub for Boviet Solar, which will produce 4 GW of solar modules and cells annually. This project is expected to create over 900 jobs in the local community, further enhancing the economic impact of solar manufacturing in the region .
5. Qcells in Georgia: Qcells is expanding its operations in Georgia with a substantial $1.45 billion loan from the Department of Energy. This investment will facilitate the construction of a facility capable of producing silicon ingots, wafers, photovoltaic cells, and modules, targeting a total capacity of 3.3 GW annually. This expansion is a critical step in meeting the increasing demand for solar products in the U.S. market .
6. Department of Energy Initiatives: The Department of Energy has announced $40 million in funding to strengthen the solar energy supply chain. This funding will support research and development projects focused on reducing costs and improving the durability of solar panels, further enhancing the competitiveness of U.S. solar manufacturing .

In summary, these initiatives reflect a concerted effort to build a self-sufficient solar manufacturing ecosystem in the United States. With the implementation of the Inflation Reduction Act and other supportive policies, the U.S. solar manufacturing sector is poised for substantial growth, contributing to energy security, job creation, and a sustainable energy future.

 

[Dezbelief]

from a relatively small stimulus

What small? 5 trillion is small?

That is not how much went to households. Are you including the business stimulus? $814B went to individuals, which is what we are talking about.

But in the grand scheme of things, over 5 years, how far does $2400/person go? I consider it "RELATIVELY" small, yes.

Sure. And I get that, but the savings that went to the businesses didn’t just go all into the pockets of greeting owners. That stimulus money companies got also many times went back to employees in the forms of bonuses and raises or not getting laid off and maintaining their job while business was depressed, etc etc. so in the end, the number was far larger than just the 800 billion.

My anecdotal experience, a business owner with 6 employees received $90,600. She bought herself a brand new Denali pickup and a car for her husband. An employee of 24 years asked for a raise and was told no. No investment into the company, no extra hours for her employees. All while her business revenue was unaffected by the pandemic.

I contract with several small businesses and I did not see any PPP money passed down to employees.

 

[ghostguy123]

Yeah, I'd say a LOT of businesses got PPP money that did not need it, and it was a substantial amount.
I only know two people with businesses and both got a LOT of unnecessary money

 

[dkp993]

from a relatively small stimulus

What small? 5 trillion is small?

That is not how much went to households. Are you including the business stimulus? $814B went to individuals, which is what we are talking about.

But in the grand scheme of things, over 5 years, how far does $2400/person go? I consider it "RELATIVELY" small, yes.

Sure. And I get that, but the savings that went to the businesses didn’t just go all into the pockets of greeting owners. That stimulus money companies got also many times went back to employees in the forms of bonuses and raises or not getting laid off and maintaining their job while business was depressed, etc etc. so in the end, the number was far larger than just the 800 billion.

My anecdotal experience, a business owner with 6 employees received $90,600. She bought herself a brand new Denali pickup and a car for her husband. An employee of 24 years asked for a raise and was told no. No investment into the company, no extra hours for her employees. All while her business revenue was unaffected by the pandemic.

I contract with several small businesses and I did not see any PPP money passed down to employees.

My anecdotal experience. We took every single stimulus dime received and paid it to all our full time employees and kept them full wages (even though they weren’t working). We (the executives) also took a 20% pay cut to help fund this and we laid off not one of our 2000 full time employees, not one. I guarantee we were not the only company that acted this way. Unfortunately it’s only the crooks that the stories get told about.

 

[FBG Moderator]

Oh so we can post political stuff in here if it's pro but not negative cool

I can't post that the government current direction is driving people away from employment but we can talk about the current spin on how good things will be with tariffs

Nope.

You can post links to a popular and respected podcast that includes an interview with the US Commerce Secretary.

If we can't allow that, we probably should just shut it down.

I'll give you popular. Respected seems like a stretch.

Just so I'm clear on what's political and what isn't: I can post links to Pod Save America podcast interviews with economists?

Again,

Nope.

You can post links to a popular and respected podcast that includes an interview with the US Commerce Secretary.

 

[FBG Moderator]

Oh so we can post political stuff in here if it's pro but not negative cool

I can't post that the government current direction is driving people away from employment but we can talk about the current spin on how good things will be with tariffs

Nope.

You can post links to a popular and respected podcast that includes an interview with the US Commerce Secretary.

If we can't allow that, we probably should just shut it down.

I'll give you popular. Respected seems like a stretch.

Just so I'm clear on what's political and what isn't: I can post links to Pod Save America podcast interviews with economists?

Again,

Nope.

You can post links to a popular and respected podcast that includes an interview with the US Commerce Secretary.

If you're not clear whether it's political or not, assume it's political and don't post it.

 

[rockaction]

Ah, you know what? I'm deleting my posts. Joe doesn't need any more aggravation than he and his staff have already gotten. Mea culpa. Just so people know, it wasn't hostile or anything. Just a slight disagreement, but I don't even post in this thread. Just for other threads I worry that citing government officials is okay but not rebutting them. If anything needs rebutting, it's been the past sixty-five years of government officials.

 

[fatness]

from a relatively small stimulus

What small? 5 trillion is small?

That is not how much went to households. Are you including the business stimulus? $814B went to individuals, which is what we are talking about.

But in the grand scheme of things, over 5 years, how far does $2400/person go? I consider it "RELATIVELY" small, yes.

But if the metric is "how many people can muster up 2K to pay for an unexpected expense" that is pretty large, no?

I think thats a pretty cool metric. I wonder what the % of households could do this?

Answer is upthread. 62.7%, which is the lowest percentage since tracking began in 2015.

U.S. households are running out of emergency funds as pandemic cash runs out, inflation takes its toll

 

[fatness]

In summary, these initiatives reflect a concerted effort to build a self-sufficient solar manufacturing ecosystem in the United States. With the implementation of the Inflation Reduction Act and other supportive policies, the U.S. solar manufacturing sector is poised for substantial growth, contributing to energy security, job creation, and a sustainable energy future.

Question: Some of those programs/policies are running out or ended, aren't they? Thanks.

 

[Orange&Blue]

In summary, these initiatives reflect a concerted effort to build a self-sufficient solar manufacturing ecosystem in the United States. With the implementation of the Inflation Reduction Act and other supportive policies, the U.S. solar manufacturing sector is poised for substantial growth, contributing to energy security, job creation, and a sustainable energy future.

Question: Some of those programs/policies are running out or ended, aren't they? Thanks.

i think trump is pausing only to electric vehicles.

https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/sustainable-finance-reporting/white-house-says-order-pausing-ira-disbursements-only-applies-some-programs-2025-01-22/

 

[Max Power]

Ah, you know what? I'm deleting my posts. Joe doesn't need any more aggravation than he and his staff have already gotten. Mea culpa. Just so people know, it wasn't hostile or anything. Just a slight disagreement, but I don't even post in this thread. Just for other threads I worry that citing government officials is okay but not rebutting them. If anything needs rebutting, it's been the past sixty-five years of government officials.

Disagreement is good. I wish we could talk about things in a civil manner, but that just isn't the reality of the internet or the current state of the country.

People seem to struggle with the difference between politics and policy. Policy can be debated without being political, but its hard for some to remove emotion from that process and it becomes political.

Same goes for conversations about government agencies. It's not inherently political, but posts can be framed in ways to make it political.

 

[Joe Bryant]

For those in this thread questioning tariffs and the overall economic policy of this administration, the All-In Podcast just came out with an episode with Howard Lutnick, the US Commerce Secretary.


It may be beneficial for you to hear the commerce secretary's perspective since most media outlets are not providing that perspective.

rockaction

Ah, you know what? I'm deleting my posts. Joe doesn't need any more aggravation than he and his staff have already gotten. Mea culpa. Just so people know, it wasn't hostile or anything. Just a slight disagreement, but I don't even post in this thread. Just for other threads I worry that citing government officials is okay but not rebutting them. If anything needs rebutting, it's been the past sixty-five years of government officials.

After looking at all this and the posts that were deleted, it looks like I was wrong.

I had hoped this could be like the Ukraine thread where news and quotes from people making the decisions could be posted. I was thankful to see a source of what was actually being said by the people in charge and not opinion pieces. But I think @rockaction is right above.

From the number of reported posts and people who didn't like a link to the US Commerce Secretary's words, I can now see that's not a good idea. And I can understand. We've shown in the past we don't want to turn this back into the PSF where quotes from politicians are a regular thing.

When we're to the point we can't allow comments from the US Commerce Secretary, and I fully agree we're at that point, it's time to let this one go.