US economy thread (3 Viewers)

[Sand]

Sounds like we could use some more Elon Musks!

Or it could use one less!

From a pure economic point of view I saw something the other day that was fascinating about our economy vs. Europe. Our capitalist method of doing things vs. the European model. To say the comparison is stark is hugely understating things. Wishing for less Elons is a massive, massive error. Wishing for a more egalitarian European economic model is a similar massive blunder.

• U.S. Companies: 68 companies, with a combined market cap nearing $30 trillion. This includes tech giants like Apple, Microsoft, and Amazon.
• EU Companies: 13 companies, collectively worth approximately $400 billion. Key players include Spotify, Adyen, and DSV.

The Great Divide: Comparing U.S. and EU Companies Founded in the Last 50 Years with $10B+ Valuations

In the world of global business, few comparisons are as stark as that between the United States and the European Union when it comes to creating high-value companies from scratch. A striking example of this disparity is encapsulated in one fact: no EU company founded in the past 50 years has a marke

www.linkedin.com

 

[Mitchie]

Sounds like we could use some more Elon Musks!

Or it could use one less!

From a pure economic point of view I saw something the other day that was fascinating about our economy vs. Europe. Our capitalist method of doing things vs. the European model. To say the comparison is stark is hugely understating things. Wishing for less Elons is a massive, massive error. Wishing for a more egalitarian European economic model is a similar massive blunder.

• U.S. Companies: 68 companies, with a combined market cap nearing $30 trillion. This includes tech giants like Apple, Microsoft, and Amazon.
• EU Companies: 13 companies, collectively worth approximately $400 billion. Key players include Spotify, Adyen, and DSV.

The Great Divide: Comparing U.S. and EU Companies Founded in the Last 50 Years with $10B+ Valuations

In the world of global business, few comparisons are as stark as that between the United States and the European Union when it comes to creating high-value companies from scratch. A striking example of this disparity is encapsulated in one fact: no EU company founded in the past 50 years has a marke

www.linkedin.com

Think I'd take my chances and see how things go.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

The theory is that the 5k is only going to 80 million households who paid a certain amount of income tax. This would exclude lower income people. The middle-class families who receive the 5k are just as likely to save/invest it as they are to spend it, so that reduces the inflation concerns.

Whose theory is this? And my god what a terrible idea

It's almost like NO ONE paid attention to what happened just a year or two ago. There's no reason to theorize. We know the spending habits of this country. It's not a matter of "if" but "when" it gets spent.

 

[uwillbsoon]

Sounds like we could use some more Elon Musks!

Or it could use one less!

From a pure economic point of view I saw something the other day that was fascinating about our economy vs. Europe. Our capitalist method of doing things vs. the European model. To say the comparison is stark is hugely understating things. Wishing for less Elons is a massive, massive error. Wishing for a more egalitarian European economic model is a similar massive blunder.

• U.S. Companies: 68 companies, with a combined market cap nearing $30 trillion. This includes tech giants like Apple, Microsoft, and Amazon.
• EU Companies: 13 companies, collectively worth approximately $400 billion. Key players include Spotify, Adyen, and DSV.

The Great Divide: Comparing U.S. and EU Companies Founded in the Last 50 Years with $10B+ Valuations

In the world of global business, few comparisons are as stark as that between the United States and the European Union when it comes to creating high-value companies from scratch. A striking example of this disparity is encapsulated in one fact: no EU company founded in the past 50 years has a marke

www.linkedin.com

Kind of surprised that doesn't talk about two things that seem extremely important, at least to me.

One could argue the biggest reason for this disparity is our higher education system. Coupled with immigration policy.

Many of the founders of Silicon Valley tech companies are foreign who came here for an education (Musk and all his South African pals).

Or their parents immigrated here. I think almost half of the Fortune 500 were founded by immigrants or their children.

I don't know enough about EU immigration to comment. But I do know our higher education system is better and more effective at training on a wide variety of specialized fields.

From a purely capitalist POV, most capitalist indexes I've seen don't rank the US in the top 10, while several EU nations typically are.

Unfortunately, both these things seem to be under attack.

 

[MTskibum]

Sounds like we could use some more Elon Musks!

Or it could use one less!

From a pure economic point of view I saw something the other day that was fascinating about our economy vs. Europe. Our capitalist method of doing things vs. the European model. To say the comparison is stark is hugely understating things. Wishing for less Elons is a massive, massive error. Wishing for a more egalitarian European economic model is a similar massive blunder.

• U.S. Companies: 68 companies, with a combined market cap nearing $30 trillion. This includes tech giants like Apple, Microsoft, and Amazon.
• EU Companies: 13 companies, collectively worth approximately $400 billion. Key players include Spotify, Adyen, and DSV.

The Great Divide: Comparing U.S. and EU Companies Founded in the Last 50 Years with $10B+ Valuations

In the world of global business, few comparisons are as stark as that between the United States and the European Union when it comes to creating high-value companies from scratch. A striking example of this disparity is encapsulated in one fact: no EU company founded in the past 50 years has a marke

www.linkedin.com

Maybe mega corps are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

What if there were less monopolies and had more competition?

 

[Sand]

From a purely capitalist POV, most capitalist indexes I've seen don't rank the US in the top 10, while several EU nations typically are.

That should tell you everything you need to know about the metrics they use for these indexes.

 

[Sand]

Maybe mega corps are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

What if there were less monopolies and had more competition?

Yes, I know we have major problems with companies wielding monopoly power over us for generations - Xerox, Kodak, US Steel, GE, Dow, Phillip Morris, IBM, and the list goes on. Maybe we should break up these juggernauts before they become the only companies in existence over the next millennium.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

It is important to remember that this money isn’t “savings” it is borrowed money due to the deficit.

Does it make sense to borrow money and give it to your citizens?

Under certain scenarios yes, but the long term benefit to the country needs to surpass the long term cost.

Thank you!!!!!!!!!

 

[uwillbsoon]

From a purely capitalist POV, most capitalist indexes I've seen don't rank the US in the top 10, while several EU nations typically are.

That should tell you everything you need to know about the metrics they use for these indexes.

Noted non-capitalist-understanding Heritage Foundation being one of them?

I don't think they have the US in the top 20.

I'm guessing you'd agree with them. Most of that ranking is because of the role of government and its lack of fiscal responsibility.

 

[fatness]

Breaking news: We just found a way to use AI to perform the job that 80,000 IRS agents are currently using an abacus for.

You forgot your link. This sounds spurious.

 

[MTskibum]

Yes, I know we have major problems with companies wielding monopoly power over us for generations - Xerox, Kodak, US Steel, GE, Dow, Phillip Morris, IBM, and the list goes on. Maybe we should break up these juggernauts before they become the only companies in existence over the next millennium.

I am not sure i buy your point to be honest. Just because large companies fail does not mean that it is acceptable to have large monopolies/oligarchies.

Maybe smaller companies and more locally run businesses would be better than mega corps, even if (or maybe especially because) those mega corps seem to fail regularly.

 

[BeTheMatch]

Amazon might be the only company left in 25 years.

 

[djmich]

Sounds like we could use some more Elon Musks!

Or it could use one less!

From a pure economic point of view I saw something the other day that was fascinating about our economy vs. Europe. Our capitalist method of doing things vs. the European model. To say the comparison is stark is hugely understating things. Wishing for less Elons is a massive, massive error. Wishing for a more egalitarian European economic model is a similar massive blunder.

• U.S. Companies: 68 companies, with a combined market cap nearing $30 trillion. This includes tech giants like Apple, Microsoft, and Amazon.
• EU Companies: 13 companies, collectively worth approximately $400 billion. Key players include Spotify, Adyen, and DSV.

The Great Divide: Comparing U.S. and EU Companies Founded in the Last 50 Years with $10B+ Valuations

In the world of global business, few comparisons are as stark as that between the United States and the European Union when it comes to creating high-value companies from scratch. A striking example of this disparity is encapsulated in one fact: no EU company founded in the past 50 years has a marke

www.linkedin.com

Kind of surprised that doesn't talk about two things that seem extremely important, at least to me.

One could argue the biggest reason for this disparity is our higher education system. Coupled with immigration policy.

Many of the founders of Silicon Valley tech companies are foreign who came here for an education (Musk and all his South African pals).

Or their parents immigrated here. I think almost half of the Fortune 500 were founded by immigrants or their children.

I don't know enough about EU immigration to comment. But I do know our higher education system is better and more effective at training on a wide variety of specialized fields.

From a purely capitalist POV, most capitalist indexes I've seen don't rank the US in the top 10, while several EU nations typically are.

Unfortunately, both these things seem to be under attack.

I think there is some correlation overfit there. The people that are coming over and creating companies out of nothing are brilliant, they’re the best these other countries have…and they come here to maximize the ROI on their talent.

I think we have good higher ed, and it’s part of the cycle, but it’s much more the people and the capitalist/political system. I mean if it was just the schooling all these guys would get the education and then kill it back in India or China, or the EU.

 

[uwillbsoon]

Sounds like we could use some more Elon Musks!

Or it could use one less!

From a pure economic point of view I saw something the other day that was fascinating about our economy vs. Europe. Our capitalist method of doing things vs. the European model. To say the comparison is stark is hugely understating things. Wishing for less Elons is a massive, massive error. Wishing for a more egalitarian European economic model is a similar massive blunder.

• U.S. Companies: 68 companies, with a combined market cap nearing $30 trillion. This includes tech giants like Apple, Microsoft, and Amazon.
• EU Companies: 13 companies, collectively worth approximately $400 billion. Key players include Spotify, Adyen, and DSV.

The Great Divide: Comparing U.S. and EU Companies Founded in the Last 50 Years with $10B+ Valuations

In the world of global business, few comparisons are as stark as that between the United States and the European Union when it comes to creating high-value companies from scratch. A striking example of this disparity is encapsulated in one fact: no EU company founded in the past 50 years has a marke

www.linkedin.com

Kind of surprised that doesn't talk about two things that seem extremely important, at least to me.

One could argue the biggest reason for this disparity is our higher education system. Coupled with immigration policy.

Many of the founders of Silicon Valley tech companies are foreign who came here for an education (Musk and all his South African pals).

Or their parents immigrated here. I think almost half of the Fortune 500 were founded by immigrants or their children.

I don't know enough about EU immigration to comment. But I do know our higher education system is better and more effective at training on a wide variety of specialized fields.

From a purely capitalist POV, most capitalist indexes I've seen don't rank the US in the top 10, while several EU nations typically are.

Unfortunately, both these things seem to be under attack.

I think there is some correlation overfit there. The people that are coming over and creating companies out of nothing are brilliant, they’re the best these other countries have…and they come here to maximize the ROI on their talent.

I think we have good higher ed, and it’s part of the cycle, but it’s much more the people and the capitalist/political system. I mean if it was just the schooling all these guys would get the education and then kill it back in India or China, or the EU.

I don't disagree. I'm just pointing out the education system and immigration were missing from the analysis.

Those are big oversights.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Good post on the denominator issue (relative to "all time high credit card balances!!!!").

Denominator blindness: The dangerous disease taking over Wall Street

 

[Max Power]

Good post on the denominator issue (relative to "all time high credit card balances!!!!").

Denominator blindness: The dangerous disease taking over Wall Street

I typically pay attention to the credit card crisis because I feel it reflects the affordability crisis in America. We're becoming a society of the haves and have nots... I haven't paid credit card interest in 20 years. I live within my means and won't spend on something I can't afford.

We have a couple family members who are the opposite and will max out every credit card they get. Lower end earners who spend all the credit they are afforded. They abuse the BNPL angle which typically isn't included in the American Debt ratio.

 

[Desert_Power]

The U.S. Economy Depends More Than Ever on Rich People

 

[Dr. Octopus]

the stock market is at all time highs

not for long

 

[dkp993]

the stock market is at all time highs

not for long

While this is certainly true, the market has cycles after all, the predictions of an impending downturn have been happening for years now. Eventually they will be right, but it could also be years from now.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

the stock market is at all time highs

not for long

While this is certainly true, the market has cycles after all, the predictions of an impending downturn have been happening for years now. Eventually they will be right, but it could also be years from now.

Yes, I’m placing no blame. It’s simply the effect of uncertain times in many ways.

Honestly, I may very well be wrong. No one knows for sure. It’s just my sense and when you keep hearing people saying they’re taking profits and starting to build cash to prepare for the correction it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. If it happens - of course it will come back.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Dr Octopus - I’m surprised the market hasn’t retreated more recently. The largest employer in the US is promising a dramatic downsizing - the UE rate will surely reflect it in coming months. Some of the traditional indicators will surely go negative soon.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Dr Octopus - I’m surprised the market hasn’t retreated more recently. The largest employer in the US is promising a dramatic downsizing - the UE rate will surely reflect it in coming months. Some of the traditional indicators will surely go negative soon.

Rotation has kept it afloat, momentum names are down pretty big and even big cap tech is down 10-15%.

 

[Nugget]

Consumer confidence dropping - 7 points largest drop since summer 2021.

The Conference Board’s report Tuesday said that the measure of Americans’ short-term expectations for income, business and the job market fell 9.3 points to 72.9. The Conference Board says a reading under 80 can signal a potential recession in the near future.

 

[Harry Manback]

Crazy, it's almost like raising prices while shrinking portions and keeping wages stagnate results in people buying less. Who could've imagined that perpetual profit growth was not sustainable?

 

[tommyGunZ]

Zero politics - strictly from a business perspective, can some explain to me how this is $5B+ company?

Trump Media Lost $401 Million Last Year — But CEO Devin Nunes Made $47 Million

Former Congressman Devin Nunes' pay soared after Trump Media went public, but he can’t cash in right away.

www.forbes.com

 

[stbugs]

Zero politics - strictly from a business perspective, can some explain to me how this is $5B+ company?

Trump Media Lost $401 Million Last Year — But CEO Devin Nunes Made $47 Million

Former Congressman Devin Nunes' pay soared after Trump Media went public, but he can’t cash in right away.

www.forbes.com

It’s all politics driving the price. It’s a meme stock, that simple. Why is GME still worth $12B? Why do people still think AMC is a good stock to own?

Honestly, it’s not much different than cryptos. BTC has dropped a bit, but people are still paying $87K for one and it’s all based on faith. There is no company or commodity behind it. There isn’t a bunch of free cash flow from a business underneath that is distributed to owners in a dividend. Same with Trump Media. There are fans willing to pay for the stock even if the fundamentals are ridiculous. Based on the little bit of the article, looks to me like the CEO makes more than the company does in revenue. That’s typically not a good sign. GameStop’s revenue dropping 20% every year typically isn’t a good sign either but as long as you have weird tweets, the company is worth way too much.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Zero politics - strictly from a business perspective, can some explain to me how this is $5B+ company?

Trump Media Lost $401 Million Last Year — But CEO Devin Nunes Made $47 Million

Former Congressman Devin Nunes' pay soared after Trump Media went public, but he can’t cash in right away.

www.forbes.com

There's nothing that says a company has to make money for its employees to make money. It's a natural part of big business that companies operate in the red in their early days but still pay their employees, and may have very expensive executives with big salaries if they are able to raise a lot of money.

I don't know if the $47M figure is particularly out of line with this workflow. But it is a SPAC, which is basically something born for corruption these days. There were tons of these doing the same thing coming out of the 2021 boom. I think the main thing that makes this one notable (and the only reason it's not similarly gone to basically zero at this point) compared to the ones where Chamath or Ackman made simiilar bank is the name attached to it.

 

[Stoneworker]

Zero politics - strictly from a business perspective, can some explain to me how this is $5B+ company?

Trump Media Lost $401 Million Last Year — But CEO Devin Nunes Made $47 Million

Former Congressman Devin Nunes' pay soared after Trump Media went public, but he can’t cash in right away.

www.forbes.com

There's nothing that says a company has to make money for its employees to make money. It's a natural part of big business that companies operate in the red in their early days but still pay their employees, and may have very expensive executives with big salaries if they are able to raise a lot of money.

I don't know if the $47M figure is particularly out of line with this workflow. But it is a SPAC, which is basically something born for corruption these days. There were tons of these doing the same thing coming out of the 2021 boom. I think the main thing that makes this one notable (and the only reason it's not similarly gone to basically zero at this point) compared to the ones where Chamath or Ackman made simiilar bank is the name attached to it.

97% of that $47M is stock-based compensation. With a vesting schedule. No different than how every startup in the country pays its senior executives

 

[tommyGunZ]

Zero politics - strictly from a business perspective, can some explain to me how this is $5B+ company?

Trump Media Lost $401 Million Last Year — But CEO Devin Nunes Made $47 Million

Former Congressman Devin Nunes' pay soared after Trump Media went public, but he can’t cash in right away.

www.forbes.com

There's nothing that says a company has to make money for its employees to make money. It's a natural part of big business that companies operate in the red in their early days but still pay their employees, and may have very expensive executives with big salaries if they are able to raise a lot of money.

I don't know if the $47M figure is particularly out of line with this workflow. But it is a SPAC, which is basically something born for corruption these days. There were tons of these doing the same thing coming out of the 2021 boom. I think the main thing that makes this one notable (and the only reason it's not similarly gone to basically zero at this point) compared to the ones where Chamath or Ackman made simiilar bank is the name attached to it.

97% of that $47M is stock-based compensation. With a vesting schedule. No different than how every startup in the country pays its senior executives

I think this make Nunes one of the top 15-20 compensated CEOs in the United States last year. He must be doing a helluva job.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Zero politics - strictly from a business perspective, can some explain to me how this is $5B+ company?

Trump Media Lost $401 Million Last Year — But CEO Devin Nunes Made $47 Million

Former Congressman Devin Nunes' pay soared after Trump Media went public, but he can’t cash in right away.

www.forbes.com

It’s all politics driving the price. It’s a meme stock, that simple. Why is GME still worth $12B? Why do people still think AMC is a good stock to own?

Honestly, it’s not much different than cryptos. BTC has dropped a bit, but people are still paying $87K for one and it’s all based on faith. There is no company or commodity behind it. There isn’t a bunch of free cash flow from a business underneath that is distributed to owners in a dividend. Same with Trump Media. There are fans willing to pay for the stock even if the fundamentals are ridiculous. Based on the little bit of the article, looks to me like the CEO makes more than the company does in revenue. That’s typically not a good sign. GameStop’s revenue dropping 20% every year typically isn’t a good sign either but as long as you have weird tweets, the company is worth way too much.

Per the Forbes article, CEO Nunes made 15x the company’s revenue in 2024.

Again, I’m not well versed in these things but that seems…..strange.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Zero politics - strictly from a business perspective, can some explain to me how this is $5B+ company?

Trump Media Lost $401 Million Last Year — But CEO Devin Nunes Made $47 Million

Former Congressman Devin Nunes' pay soared after Trump Media went public, but he can’t cash in right away.

www.forbes.com

There's nothing that says a company has to make money for its employees to make money. It's a natural part of big business that companies operate in the red in their early days but still pay their employees, and may have very expensive executives with big salaries if they are able to raise a lot of money.

I don't know if the $47M figure is particularly out of line with this workflow. But it is a SPAC, which is basically something born for corruption these days. There were tons of these doing the same thing coming out of the 2021 boom. I think the main thing that makes this one notable (and the only reason it's not similarly gone to basically zero at this point) compared to the ones where Chamath or Ackman made simiilar bank is the name attached to it.

97% of that $47M is stock-based compensation. With a vesting schedule. No different than how every startup in the country pays its senior executives

I think this make Nunes one of the top 15-20 compensated CEOs in the United States last year. He must be doing a helluva job.

This is the cow guy right?

 

[Marauder]

Personally, I've never liked it when I see Journalists say "so and so made $X" when that's just the current value of the stock they own, and often cannot sell. Stocks go up and down. You don't make money on a stock until you sell it (or collect dividends).

Personally, I think Truth Social should be a penny stock and I think it will end up there eventually. That's just my opinion though. Apparently there are people who think their revenue numbers will turn around and skyrocket for some reason. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Personally, I've never liked it when I see Journalists say "so and so made $X" when that's just the current value of the stock they own, and often cannot sell. Stocks go up and down. You don't make money on a stock until you sell it (or collect dividends).

I don’t find this persuasive. You can make a similar argument for cash.

High net worth people borrow against their equity holdings. Often they do have the ability to sell and choose to retain stock.

 

[Max Power]

Fed up: 2 in 5 Americans say living in U.S. no longer enjoyable

According to a recent survey, 17% of American adults want to move internationally within the next five years, potentially signaling a significant shift in the country's population.

studyfinds.org

Interesting numbers to consider. Alarming that so many millennials would consider leaving America.

As economic pressures mount and social tensions rise, many Americans are setting their sights beyond U.S. borders for a better quality of life​

NEW YORK — In the shadow of rising housing costs, healthcare concerns, and growing social divisions, a striking number of Americans are considering a future outside the United States. According to a recent survey, 17% of American adults want to move internationally within the next five years, potentially signaling a significant shift in the country’s population.

The survey, conducted by Talker Research, found that 5% of Americans plan to take actual steps toward living abroad in the next few years, while 2% have already started the process of moving to another country.

Millennials Lead the Way​

Millennials emerged as the group most eager to move internationally, with a quarter (25%) wanting to relocate abroad – higher than any other generation surveyed.

This trend likely reflects the unique challenges faced by millennials, who have experienced multiple economic downturns, rising student debt, and increasingly unaffordable housing throughout their adult lives.

....

Why Americans Want to Leave​

The survey examined the key reasons driving Americans to consider moving abroad. The findings show significant concerns about both American society and the challenges of building financial security.

Almost seven in ten respondents (69%) worried about the direction the United States is heading, while a majority (65%) described American society as having become “toxic.”

Money worries were a major factor. More than half of respondents (54%) said living in the U.S. is no longer affordable, while 55% believed the gap between rich and poor limits their opportunities. Nearly four in ten (39%) thought improving their finances and quality of life would be easier in another country.

Work-life balance was another concern, with 57% of respondents calling America’s approach inadequate. Even more troubling were views on essential systems, with strong majorities agreeing that American healthcare (65%) and education (66%) systems are broken.

These negative views have changed how many see life in America compared to other countries, with 40% saying living in the U.S. is no longer enjoyable or preferable to other nations.

 

[Joe Schmo]

Fed up: 2 in 5 Americans say living in U.S. no longer enjoyable

According to a recent survey, 17% of American adults want to move internationally within the next five years, potentially signaling a significant shift in the country's population.

studyfinds.org

Interesting numbers to consider. Alarming that so many millennials would consider leaving America.

As economic pressures mount and social tensions rise, many Americans are setting their sights beyond U.S. borders for a better quality of life​

NEW YORK — In the shadow of rising housing costs, healthcare concerns, and growing social divisions, a striking number of Americans are considering a future outside the United States. According to a recent survey, 17% of American adults want to move internationally within the next five years, potentially signaling a significant shift in the country’s population.

The survey, conducted by Talker Research, found that 5% of Americans plan to take actual steps toward living abroad in the next few years, while 2% have already started the process of moving to another country.

Millennials Lead the Way​

Millennials emerged as the group most eager to move internationally, with a quarter (25%) wanting to relocate abroad – higher than any other generation surveyed.

This trend likely reflects the unique challenges faced by millennials, who have experienced multiple economic downturns, rising student debt, and increasingly unaffordable housing throughout their adult lives.

....

Why Americans Want to Leave​

The survey examined the key reasons driving Americans to consider moving abroad. The findings show significant concerns about both American society and the challenges of building financial security.

Almost seven in ten respondents (69%) worried about the direction the United States is heading, while a majority (65%) described American society as having become “toxic.”

Money worries were a major factor. More than half of respondents (54%) said living in the U.S. is no longer affordable, while 55% believed the gap between rich and poor limits their opportunities. Nearly four in ten (39%) thought improving their finances and quality of life would be easier in another country.

Work-life balance was another concern, with 57% of respondents calling America’s approach inadequate. Even more troubling were views on essential systems, with strong majorities agreeing that American healthcare (65%) and education (66%) systems are broken.

These negative views have changed how many see life in America compared to other countries, with 40% saying living in the U.S. is no longer enjoyable or preferable to other nations.

I've given it some thought, I hate the direction the country is going and can see a near future where this country is allied with the bad guys on the international stage and that makes me want to puke.

 

[Mookie]

Fed up: 2 in 5 Americans say living in U.S. no longer enjoyable

According to a recent survey, 17% of American adults want to move internationally within the next five years, potentially signaling a significant shift in the country's population.

studyfinds.org

Interesting numbers to consider. Alarming that so many millennials would consider leaving America.

As economic pressures mount and social tensions rise, many Americans are setting their sights beyond U.S. borders for a better quality of life​

NEW YORK — In the shadow of rising housing costs, healthcare concerns, and growing social divisions, a striking number of Americans are considering a future outside the United States. According to a recent survey, 17% of American adults want to move internationally within the next five years, potentially signaling a significant shift in the country’s population.

The survey, conducted by Talker Research, found that 5% of Americans plan to take actual steps toward living abroad in the next few years, while 2% have already started the process of moving to another country.

Millennials Lead the Way​

Millennials emerged as the group most eager to move internationally, with a quarter (25%) wanting to relocate abroad – higher than any other generation surveyed.

This trend likely reflects the unique challenges faced by millennials, who have experienced multiple economic downturns, rising student debt, and increasingly unaffordable housing throughout their adult lives.

....

Why Americans Want to Leave​

The survey examined the key reasons driving Americans to consider moving abroad. The findings show significant concerns about both American society and the challenges of building financial security.

Almost seven in ten respondents (69%) worried about the direction the United States is heading, while a majority (65%) described American society as having become “toxic.”

Money worries were a major factor. More than half of respondents (54%) said living in the U.S. is no longer affordable, while 55% believed the gap between rich and poor limits their opportunities. Nearly four in ten (39%) thought improving their finances and quality of life would be easier in another country.

Work-life balance was another concern, with 57% of respondents calling America’s approach inadequate. Even more troubling were views on essential systems, with strong majorities agreeing that American healthcare (65%) and education (66%) systems are broken.

These negative views have changed how many see life in America compared to other countries, with 40% saying living in the U.S. is no longer enjoyable or preferable to other nations.

I don't see it as alarming - more predictable than anything else. Unless they come from wealthy families, moving abroad is becoming a more attractive option due to housing prices alone. This is especially true for remote workers.

 

[Max Power]

Fed up: 2 in 5 Americans say living in U.S. no longer enjoyable

According to a recent survey, 17% of American adults want to move internationally within the next five years, potentially signaling a significant shift in the country's population.

studyfinds.org

Interesting numbers to consider. Alarming that so many millennials would consider leaving America.

As economic pressures mount and social tensions rise, many Americans are setting their sights beyond U.S. borders for a better quality of life​

NEW YORK — In the shadow of rising housing costs, healthcare concerns, and growing social divisions, a striking number of Americans are considering a future outside the United States. According to a recent survey, 17% of American adults want to move internationally within the next five years, potentially signaling a significant shift in the country’s population.

The survey, conducted by Talker Research, found that 5% of Americans plan to take actual steps toward living abroad in the next few years, while 2% have already started the process of moving to another country.

Millennials Lead the Way​

Millennials emerged as the group most eager to move internationally, with a quarter (25%) wanting to relocate abroad – higher than any other generation surveyed.

This trend likely reflects the unique challenges faced by millennials, who have experienced multiple economic downturns, rising student debt, and increasingly unaffordable housing throughout their adult lives.

....

Why Americans Want to Leave​

The survey examined the key reasons driving Americans to consider moving abroad. The findings show significant concerns about both American society and the challenges of building financial security.

Almost seven in ten respondents (69%) worried about the direction the United States is heading, while a majority (65%) described American society as having become “toxic.”

Money worries were a major factor. More than half of respondents (54%) said living in the U.S. is no longer affordable, while 55% believed the gap between rich and poor limits their opportunities. Nearly four in ten (39%) thought improving their finances and quality of life would be easier in another country.

Work-life balance was another concern, with 57% of respondents calling America’s approach inadequate. Even more troubling were views on essential systems, with strong majorities agreeing that American healthcare (65%) and education (66%) systems are broken.

These negative views have changed how many see life in America compared to other countries, with 40% saying living in the U.S. is no longer enjoyable or preferable to other nations.

I don't see it as alarming - more predictable than anything else. Unless they come from wealthy families, moving abroad is becoming a more attractive option due to housing prices alone. This is especially true for remote workers.

I have a buddy from the military who is now getting 100% disability from the VA. He plans to move to Eastern Europe and retire because cost of living is so cheap that way.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

The work/life balance sentiment is going to do nothing but grow. The older generations, boomers, Gen X, etc. were sold a version of "work ethic" that exists here but nowhere else sans communist China maybe? The younger generations have been exposed to the rest of the world in a way that neither of those other two groups were. I am 28, will turn 29 this year and right on the border of Gen Y and Z. I was lucky enough to have parents (eventually) who valued travel and exposure to other cultures. It taught me a lot. It's also given me a generally pessimistic view of "how it is" in the US.

 

[dkp993]

were sold a version of "work ethic" that exists here but nowhere else sans communist China maybe? The younger generations have been exposed to the rest of the world in a way that neither of those other two groups were.

You mean that “work ethic” that built this country into the economic powerhouse and world leader that it is? Maybe, just maybe, work ethic is a foundational element of success.

 

[MTskibum]

Every country has people that work hard.

Every country has people that are lazy.

Every generation has people that work hard.

Every generation has people that are lazy.

 

[Chadstroma]

Every country has people that work hard.

Every country has people that are lazy.

Every generation has people that work hard.

Every generation has people that are lazy.

I think you are underestimating the impact of culture. Not just culture in the sense of national but also in generational culture. Work ethic is not just an internal thing but is influenced by how people think- their values, their priorities, what drives them, etc.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

were sold a version of "work ethic" that exists here but nowhere else sans communist China maybe? The younger generations have been exposed to the rest of the world in a way that neither of those other two groups were.

You mean that “work ethic” that built this country into the economic powerhouse and world leader that it is? Maybe, just maybe, work ethic is a foundational element of success.

Our economic position in the world is pretty much from two events. The first being the end of WWII and how the world viewed us because of our participation. The second being when the USSR was dissolved in the 90s. Feels like we are talking about two very different things, so I think the answer to your question is "no. that's not what I'm talking about".

I'm speaking more of what they were sold as to what success looked like individually which was pretty materialistic and lacking in the "life" part of the equation. It's not a negative. It helped with success in many ways. It also allowed people to fail in many ways depending on how "success" is/was defined as well. That definition is being rethought now by a lot of people.

 

[dkp993]

were sold a version of "work ethic" that exists here but nowhere else sans communist China maybe? The younger generations have been exposed to the rest of the world in a way that neither of those other two groups were.

You mean that “work ethic” that built this country into the economic powerhouse and world leader that it is? Maybe, just maybe, work ethic is a foundational element of success.

Our economic position in the world is pretty much from two events. The first being the end of WWII and how the world viewed us because of our participation. The second being when the USSR was dissolved in the 90s. Feels like we are talking about two very different things, so I think the answer to your question is "no. that's not what I'm talking about".

I'm speaking more of what they were sold as to what success looked like individually which was pretty materialistic and lacking in the "life" part of the equation. It's not a negative. It helped with success in many ways. It also allowed people to fail in many ways depending on how "success" is/was defined as well. That definition is being rethought now by a lot of people.

I couldn’t disagree with your first paragraph more but don’t have the time right now to respond fully.

To your second paragraph. It depends on what we’re talking about. Individually or as a society. I’m speaking to the societal element. Individually “success” has an extremely broad definition. I have a friend who to him success means living on a beach in Costa Rica surfing all day and living off of 20$ a week. I have another that it’s about being a wealthy as possible (even at the sacrifice to his own health and wellbeing). But for a society it can’t function like that. A society filled with friend number one starves out.*
For a society to be successful, hard work is a fundamental element.

* to be clear I’m also not advocating for life like friend number 2

 

[Stoneworker]

were sold a version of "work ethic" that exists here but nowhere else sans communist China maybe? The younger generations have been exposed to the rest of the world in a way that neither of those other two groups were.

You mean that “work ethic” that built this country into the economic powerhouse and world leader that it is? Maybe, just maybe, work ethic is a foundational element of success.

Our economic position in the world is pretty much from two events. The first being the end of WWII and how the world viewed us because of our participation. The second being when the USSR was dissolved in the 90s.

The current U.S. economic position is not "from" two events that just "happened." Exactly the opposite.

Victory in WWII and the USSR implosion were outcomes that were a direct result of U.S. productive capacity and economic dominance.

 

[tymarsas]

Fed up: 2 in 5 Americans say living in U.S. no longer enjoyable

According to a recent survey, 17% of American adults want to move internationally within the next five years, potentially signaling a significant shift in the country's population.

studyfinds.org

Interesting numbers to consider. Alarming that so many millennials would consider leaving America.

As economic pressures mount and social tensions rise, many Americans are setting their sights beyond U.S. borders for a better quality of life​

NEW YORK — In the shadow of rising housing costs, healthcare concerns, and growing social divisions, a striking number of Americans are considering a future outside the United States. According to a recent survey, 17% of American adults want to move internationally within the next five years, potentially signaling a significant shift in the country’s population.

The survey, conducted by Talker Research, found that 5% of Americans plan to take actual steps toward living abroad in the next few years, while 2% have already started the process of moving to another country.

Millennials Lead the Way​

Millennials emerged as the group most eager to move internationally, with a quarter (25%) wanting to relocate abroad – higher than any other generation surveyed.

This trend likely reflects the unique challenges faced by millennials, who have experienced multiple economic downturns, rising student debt, and increasingly unaffordable housing throughout their adult lives.

....

Why Americans Want to Leave​

The survey examined the key reasons driving Americans to consider moving abroad. The findings show significant concerns about both American society and the challenges of building financial security.

Almost seven in ten respondents (69%) worried about the direction the United States is heading, while a majority (65%) described American society as having become “toxic.”

Money worries were a major factor. More than half of respondents (54%) said living in the U.S. is no longer affordable, while 55% believed the gap between rich and poor limits their opportunities. Nearly four in ten (39%) thought improving their finances and quality of life would be easier in another country.

Work-life balance was another concern, with 57% of respondents calling America’s approach inadequate. Even more troubling were views on essential systems, with strong majorities agreeing that American healthcare (65%) and education (66%) systems are broken.

These negative views have changed how many see life in America compared to other countries, with 40% saying living in the U.S. is no longer enjoyable or preferable to other nations.

It's interesting that the number 1 preferred destination is Canada. Because the opposite is true as well. Large numbers of millennial Canadians want to move to the US. The number 1 reason they want to move to the US is probably higher pay.

Also this doesn't seem all that surprising to me. There is always a segment of the population that think the grass is greener on the other side, but few actually do anything about it. I read the article quickly but I didn't see anything about how this number has changed over time. That would be more interesting imo.

 

[dkp993]

were sold a version of "work ethic" that exists here but nowhere else sans communist China maybe? The younger generations have been exposed to the rest of the world in a way that neither of those other two groups were.

You mean that “work ethic” that built this country into the economic powerhouse and world leader that it is? Maybe, just maybe, work ethic is a foundational element of success.

Our economic position in the world is pretty much from two events. The first being the end of WWII and how the world viewed us because of our participation. The second being when the USSR was dissolved in the 90s.

The current U.S. economic position is not "from" two events that just "happened." Exactly the opposite.

Victory in WWII and the USSR implosion were outcomes that were a direct result of U.S. productive capacity and economic dominance.

100%. And it’s my biggest problem with the viewpoint expressed by Sparky (and those of this generation). It’s a viewpoint with the luxury of being built on reaping the benefits of the generations of hard work before them. Now, all generations are, but the difference, imo, is the lack of appreciation for what it took to afford the current viewpoint.

 

[the moops]

Also this doesn't seem all that surprising to me. There is always a segment of the population that think the grass is greener on the other side, but few actually do anything about it.

Yea if you asked me this question when I was 25 I also would have answered that I was thinking about moving elsewhere. yet here i am

 

[Steve Tasker]

100%. And it’s my biggest problem with the viewpoint expressed by Sparky (and those of this generation). It’s a viewpoint with the luxury of being built on reaping the benefits of the generations of hard work before them. Now, all generations are, but the difference, imo, is the lack of appreciation for what it took to afford the current viewpoint.

Lack of appreciation for what, a decade-long housing crisis? Unafforable childcare costs? The chaotic mess that is the US healthcare system?

There's plenty good about America, but there's plenty that can be improved too. With all due respect, many millennials and Gen Z are economically ****ed in the long-term - personally I don't revere our Boomer (and, frankly, throw Gen X in there too) predecessors. There have been some great men and women in American history, who have helped build America into what it is today, won world wars, fought for labor rights, fought for civil rights, things of that nature. But by and large, those great people were not Boomers or Gen X.

 

[gianmarco]

100%. And it’s my biggest problem with the viewpoint expressed by Sparky (and those of this generation). It’s a viewpoint with the luxury of being built on reaping the benefits of the generations of hard work before them. Now, all generations are, but the difference, imo, is the lack of appreciation for what it took to afford the current viewpoint.

Lack of appreciation for what, a decade-long housing crisis? Unafforable childcare costs? The chaotic mess that is the US healthcare system?

There's plenty good about America, but there's plenty that can be improved too. With all due respect, many millennials and Gen Z are economically ****ed in the long-term - personally I don't revere our Boomer (and, frankly, throw Gen X in there too) predecessors. There have been some great men and women in American history, who have helped build America into what it is today, won world wars, fought for labor rights, fought for civil rights, things of that nature. But by and large, those great people were not Boomers or Gen X.

Out of curiosity, I threw the question "why is it difficult for millennials to build wealth?" into Chat GPT. Here's the response, which is pretty much in line with your post (and more)

There are several factors that contribute to the difficulty millennials face in building wealth today:

1. **Student Loan Debt**:
- **High Debt Levels**: Many millennials entered the workforce with substantial student loan debt, making it hard to save and invest early.
- **Interest Rates**: High interest rates on student loans can lead to prolonged repayment periods, reducing disposable income for investment and savings.

2. **Wage Stagnation**:
- **Slow Income Growth**: Wages have not kept pace with inflation, leading to lower real income growth for many millennials compared to previous generations.
- **Gig Economy**: The rise of gig and contract work often comes with fewer benefits and less job security, impacting consistent income growth.

3. **Housing Market**:
- **High Home Prices**: Housing prices have surged in many desirable urban areas, making homeownership less attainable.
- **Rent Costs**: Rising rents in major cities consume a significant portion of millennials' income, leaving less for saving and investing.

4. **Economic Uncertainty**:
- **Great Recession**: Many millennials graduated during or shortly after the Great Recession, entering a tough job market which impacted their early earning years.
- **Global Events**: Economic upheavals such as the COVID-19 pandemic have led to job losses, reduced hours, and financial instability.

5. **Cost of Living**:
- **Higher Living Expenses**: Costs for essentials such as healthcare, education, and childcare have increased, making it harder to save.
- **Urbanization**: Millennials tend to live in urban areas where the cost of living is higher due to better job opportunities.

6. **Retirement Savings**:
- **Delayed Savings Start**: Due to high debt and living costs, many millennials delay saving for retirement, losing valuable years of compound interest.
- **Lack of Pension Plans**: Shift from pension plans to 401(k) puts the onus of retirement savings entirely on the individual, requiring financial literacy and discipline.

7. **Financial Literacy**:
- **Education Gap**: Many millennials lack comprehensive financial education, making it challenging to navigate investments, savings, and debt management.

8. **Healthcare Costs**:
- **High Insurance Costs**: Increasing health insurance premiums and out-of-pocket expenses reduce disposable income.
- **Medical Debt**: Unexpected medical expenses can lead to significant financial strain.

9. **Lifestyle Expectations**:
- **Consumer Culture**: Social media and advertising promote consumerism, leading to higher spending on non-essential items.
- **Lifestyle Inflation**: As incomes rise, living expenses often rise as well, preventing savings growth.

10. **Employment Trends**:
- **Job Market Shift**: Technological advancements and globalization have shifted job markets, sometimes making it harder for traditional career paths to provide stable, long-term employment.

Millennials face a unique combination of economic, social, and financial challenges that previous generations did not encounter to the same extent. Addressing these factors requires strategic planning, financial education, and sometimes policy changes to create a more conducive environment for wealth accumulation.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

were sold a version of "work ethic" that exists here but nowhere else sans communist China maybe? The younger generations have been exposed to the rest of the world in a way that neither of those other two groups were.

You mean that “work ethic” that built this country into the economic powerhouse and world leader that it is? Maybe, just maybe, work ethic is a foundational element of success.

Our economic position in the world is pretty much from two events. The first being the end of WWII and how the world viewed us because of our participation. The second being when the USSR was dissolved in the 90s. Feels like we are talking about two very different things, so I think the answer to your question is "no. that's not what I'm talking about".

I'm speaking more of what they were sold as to what success looked like individually which was pretty materialistic and lacking in the "life" part of the equation. It's not a negative. It helped with success in many ways. It also allowed people to fail in many ways depending on how "success" is/was defined as well. That definition is being rethought now by a lot of people.

I couldn’t disagree with your first paragraph more but don’t have the time right now to respond fully.

To your second paragraph. It depends on what we’re talking about. Individually or as a society. I’m speaking to the societal element. Individually “success” has an extremely broad definition. I have a friend who to him success means living on a beach in Costa Rica surfing all day and living off of 20$ a week. I have another that it’s about being a wealthy as possible (even at the sacrifice to his own health and wellbeing). But for a society it can’t function like that. A society filled with friend number one starves out.*
For a society to be successful, hard work is a fundamental element.

* to be clear I’m also not advocating for life like friend number 2

The initial comment was from the personal perspective as was the second. So we are talking about two different things. I don't espoused the ability to speak to what "success" looks like for hundreds of millions of people. I don't even know how you'd begin that convo.